Still nothing for templar ? No burst and no spammable.

mmtaniac

One buff counter whole class good game balance.

Syiccal

mmtaniac wrote: »

One buff counter whole class good game balance.

This pretty much, as others have said the primary targeting aspect should not be debuffed by evasion only the Aoe aspect of the ability but currently the entire ability is effected by evasion.

boi_anachronism_

Galeriano2 wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Dk, arcanist, sorc and nb all have abilities that work on either bar..Templar can't even have major sorcery for more than 10s and that comes using stam jabs!

To be fair templar also have ability that woprks on either bar.

1 radiant Aura, nobody uses it because it's pointless ability

Doesn't change the fact that templar is among classes that have this feature.

No. There is absolutely no denying that arc and nb both bar buff are not the same as aura. Its utterly cracked to say that. Aura exists to make up for an inherent class weakness while the others are straight buff to its class kit. Period. They are not comparable in any way shape or form.

I would suggest You to read more carefully what I wrote because You clearly missed the point of my comment.

Id suggest you quit being disingenuous and purposefully missing the point of what people are referring to with regard to double bar buffs. As i pointed out they are in no way comparable as proven by the fact that it is completely unused. Compare that to inspired scholarship which is mandatoey for arcs. People are discussing specifically the fact that many other classes have access to MAJOR damage related buffs on both bars. So no sunshine- i didnt miss the point. You used semantics to avoid it.

mmtaniac

Current templar is like restaurant that have 30 positions in menu but only prepare one edible and only one and never different but you can choose but only that one are edible.

notyuu

Making jabs good again would be as simple as taking burning light, reducing the number of hits needed to proc it to 3 and reducing the internal cooldown on building stacks from 0.5 to 0.25.

And just like that jabs would get some bite back

Blackbird_V

notyuu wrote: »

Making jabs good again would be as simple as taking burning light, reducing the number of hits needed to proc it to 3 and reducing the internal cooldown on building stacks from 0.5 to 0.25.

And just like that jabs would get some bite back

Another good change is make jabs always do it's full damage to your target - the enemy you've tab targeted - then it gains much better use in PvE where adds sit in front of you and tank the bulk of the damage. Oooor we could just revert the U35 change, then nerf beam slightly.

Skulptro

HI there!

Damage щас is very important, but let's not forget, that there is really no good defence mechanism. What I'm trying to say is that Templar is promoted as "Defend your Holly Ground" class. But in fact, you can't play like that. Ritual(both morphs) are gonna cost you an arm and a leg. Chenneled Focus is really very small. So in Open World you sometimes can run inside your ritual, but you need a Holly Kiting Rock inside of it, just to kite some damage. But standidng inside Chennelled Focus?! Smetimes you can do that in Duel-like situation, but it's not reliable even in PvE, not to mention PvP. And all this ground HoTs can't save you from good bursty combo. Yes, you can deal with some pressure builds in 1v1 or 1v2 situations by standing in circles AND spaming other heals AS WELL. Just until someone throws a Negate or something right inside your Holly Ground.

So what do we have? Either stand in place and get surrounded and killed, or run around, kite, but loose your ground based HoTs.

When I saw Sun Shield getting buffed, I thought, that it's gonna be a good alternative defence mechanism instead of Ritual. But apparently, it is not, due to my testings on PTS.

These following screenshots are made on PTS. I got allmost 50k health, got Bastion CP and got a source of Major Vitality. So in PvP Wield Soul shield is a little bit bigger, then Blazing Shield. Yes, class shield becomes a little bit stronger if any enemies are nearby. But I have Major Vitality placed inside my Wield Soul Shield. So it is 12% BOTH to my incoming healing and shield strength. And also Class Mastery for more resistances and spell damage. So if I have them both - fine. But if I have only one skill slot, which shield should I leave on my bar, and which one is a waste of slot? Obvious choice. Too obvious. And let's not forget, that I have 6k Spell Damage at max, with full Balorg, but mainly I am just a tiny bit under 5k Spell Damage. Butchering the build just to have a good shield.

Screenshots from IC

BlackHammer225

Syiccal wrote: »

BlackHammer225 wrote: »

Cast_El wrote: »

Please do something. Add 5% more damage to jab, improve the snare duration. And rework power of the light... Rework passive.
Actually this class need so much work to be really good in pvp and not be a beam bot that everybody hate

First I want to state I'm a Templar main and I feel the same as you do about Templar needing to be looked at for the PVP side of the game. because yes the Backlash ability aka Power and Purifying light is not effective.

But I will have to disagree with you about jabs specifically damage, my tooltip unbuffed and with any good decent damage set with weapon and spell damage on jewelry, I can reach or higher 3.5k hits per jab which there are 3 of . Altogether that is a 10.5k tooltip unbuffed damage is fine, however keeping jabs on a target can be a problem so maybe the snare could be stronger.

I have made a post in the feedback forums talking about Templar's delayed burst ability lacking in damage because they increased the threshold cap on it to reach the 200% copie damage that would be dealt to the opponent. check that out, please help, and support it because as a community we must let them know about this issue.

Yea but don't forget minor and major evasion, cp and medium armour all reduce the DMG of jabs, so as a spammable that's sometimes hard to land on fast targets it's not the best regardless of the tool tips.

Good observation but remember I said unbuffed I can deal way more damage than that and don't forget to include penetrations, for minor or major evasions I understand where you are coming from not everyone is going to use those buffs over anything else that is better overall.

Frostmear

Hate to be that guy, but until Radiant and Javelin get toned down, plar needs no buffs. Nerf Radiant, make Javelin blockable, range CC"s should never be unblockable Period. Radiant needs to be toned down in PVP but unchanged in PVE, then you can talk about buffing jabs, otherwise we're just gonna go back to another obnoxious plar meta.

ArctosCethlenn

Frostmear wrote: »

Hate to be that guy, but until Radiant and Javelin get toned down, plar needs no buffs. Nerf Radiant, make Javelin blockable, range CC"s should never be unblockable Period. Radiant needs to be toned down in PVP but unchanged in PVE, then you can talk about buffing jabs, otherwise we're just gonna go back to another obnoxious plar meta.

Pretty much everyone *wants* radiant to get tuned down, cut its damage and shift more of templar's power into non-execute damage instead of sitting there licking the walls until execute range.

taugrim

I definitely agree with the request to add 5% damage to Puncturing Strikes base ability and to add Major Brutality to the base ability, so that both morphs also benefit.

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Wouldn't mind if Templar received a class source of major breach, stick it on all versions of Backlash.

No.

Wardens and DKs have Major Breach abilities that are often slotted. (No one slots the NB one.) Let's keep the list of Major Breach short.

The issue with Backlash isn't the lack of Major Breach - it's that it doesn't fulfill it's main purpose, which is delayed burst. The damage should be buffed a bit, e.g. 5%.

mmtaniac

Execute should be toned down. Every templar main are behind this idea and want that for balancing other offense abilities.

Templar damage/defense just not scale right compared to other classes we need collosal numbers and stats to be effective in anything in pvp in one category.

Syiccal

I've seen that it takes 36k of DMG to reach the cap for PoL which is near on impossible in PvP for a plar right now. This is a problem and needs to be addressed to give any kind of burst back.
All a sorc has to do is cast hunting curse and a nb just needs couple light attacks for the highest burst in the game (hits more the ults), warden just has to line it up.

Why do plars need to do 36k of DMG first to reach a burst potential, Id argue even half of that can be difficult in the midst of combat, trying to land jabs etc someone with max speed, resists etc

Udrath

I remember a bunch people asking for blazing shield rework and I guess that’s it.

Templar isn’t in a bad spot bur they should address the dominant 1 dimensional playstyle of the class revolving around beam. And if they buff potl to much then we’re back to where it started where it was critting for like 20k.

Syiccal

Udrath wrote: »

I remember a bunch people asking for blazing shield rework and I guess that’s it.

Templar isn’t in a bad spot bur they should address the dominant 1 dimensional playstyle of the class revolving around beam. And if they buff potl to much then we’re back to where it started where it was critting for like 20k.

You mean like spec bow?
I think everyone agrees That hits way to hard, even tanky nbs can 2 tap players with the incap bow combo with no more build up than a couple light attacks.
Pol doesn't need to be 20k but it does need to function as a 'burst' that does more than like 4/5k crits for the required effort. X

Galeriano2

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

I would suggest You to read more carefully what I wrote because You clearly missed the point of my comment.

Quit being pedantic, cuddles.

Radiant aura is a meme and pretending it's existence puts templar on the same level as dk or nightblade with passive dual-bar major crit, or arcanist with major s/wd, because of the minor recoveries is shamefully obscene.

Edit: please also remember that the dk, arcanist and nb skills with a passive buff on both bars while slotted do useful things on their own and would be worth slotting even if the additional passive did not exist. Radiant aura is radiant aura. Repentance is a hair better, but still a meme.

I would suggest You to also read more carefully what I wrote since You also missed the point of it. I perfectly know what other abilities of that type on other classes do. However I never said or suggested that radiant aura is on the same level as similarly working abilities on other classes or that it puts templar on the same level. I simply said it exists since the comment I responded to suggested otherwise. Your comment adds or changes nothing to what I said.

ArctosCethlenn

taugrim wrote: »

I definitely agree with the request to add 5% damage to Puncturing Strikes base ability and to add Major Brutality to the base ability, so that both morphs also benefit.

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Wouldn't mind if Templar received a class source of major breach, stick it on all versions of Backlash.

No.

Wardens and DKs have Major Breach abilities that are often slotted. (No one slots the NB one.) Let's keep the list of Major Breach short.

The issue with Backlash isn't the lack of Major Breach - it's that it doesn't fulfill it's main purpose, which is delayed burst. The damage should be buffed a bit, e.g. 5%.

It's more that if plar had its own source of breach, on backlash or from burning light procs or whatever, it'd free up a slot for extra power or utility in pvp. Adding major breach isn't a hill I care to die on, it was just a thought to give templar builds a few more options.

Nightblade is a pretty prime example of the other side of things; power extract can be your spammable aoe, your sorc/brut source, minor courage, and minor cowardice all on one button, and several NB skills are similarly (over)loaded in their own way.

If zos is leery of potl damage deleting people, which they seem to be, adding extra utility to the skill rather than raw damage could help the class without turning it into spec bow 2.0.

One extra thought, what if backlash also did its stored damage on being purged, rather than just fizzling into the void? Sure it'd only hit for like 2-3k (up from zero), but that'd still give plar a small way to punish people for trying to remove their dots/debuffs.

mmtaniac

Templar could be good class that collect damage that enemy do to him and use it against them with some kind of realease button. Right now we collect our damage on enemy and release them it's overall good thing but as everyone see it's not working as it should.

What if we get ability that collect damage. We still get damage but can release it in next 10 seconds. Or just change how potl work and make potl just collector to damage and give us secondary button to re relaese those damage whenever we want.

Templar need OPTION TO CHOOSE when and how he deal his burst damage. Right now we have 0 control over it.

People must be mindless creature to let us collect damage from jabs and deal at least acceptable damage from potl.

Sun shield is good ability that could be collect version of potl. I collect YOUR BURST on me and release it on YOU when i see fit off course in next 10-20seconds and this damage will fade.

About potl it's scaling doesn't work. This ability must be JUST DAMAGE + collected damage as additional if you want more damage something like that but you need to enter in some damage collect requierements to active this bonus at all.

Aurielle

Syiccal wrote: »

Udrath wrote: »

I remember a bunch people asking for blazing shield rework and I guess that’s it.

Templar isn’t in a bad spot bur they should address the dominant 1 dimensional playstyle of the class revolving around beam. And if they buff potl to much then we’re back to where it started where it was critting for like 20k.

You mean like spec bow?
I think everyone agrees That hits way to hard, even tanky nbs can 2 tap players with the incap bow combo with no more build up than a couple light attacks.
Pol doesn't need to be 20k but it does need to function as a 'burst' that does more than like 4/5k crits for the required effort. X

Quoted for truth.

NBs flooding these forums with huge tears over the Shadowy Disguise change, meanwhile us Templars get a taunt we weren’t even asking for and we still do some of the worst burst damage in the game — to the point where many of us don’t even slot our class-defining skill.

I’d be absolutely fine with Radiant Glory getting a nerf if it meant that POTL and jabs could do more than just tickle an enemy player.

Udrath

Personally I’d like rune focus to be increased to 30 seconds. And beam nerfed but other abilities buffed. I have feeling they’re just going turn potl into a cast and forget skill like shalks and curse eventually, maybe.

TDVM

Templars are still ranked higher than necro, so need to start improving from the bottom, namely necro.

Skulptro

Syiccal wrote: »

I've seen that it takes 36k of DMG to reach the cap for PoL which is near on impossible in PvP for a plar right now. This is a problem and needs to be addressed to give any kind of burst back.
All a sorc has to do is cast hunting curse and a nb just needs couple light attacks for the highest burst in the game (hits more the ults), warden just has to line it up.

Why do plars need to do 36k of DMG first to reach a burst potential, Id argue even half of that can be difficult in the midst of combat, trying to land jabs etc someone with max speed, resists etc

If a templar coulв do 36k DPS ins 6 seconds, he wouldn't even need a delayed burst, lol. And now there is neither first, nor the second in our toolkit

the1andonlyskwex

Jabs is already among the better class spammables (heck, it's not even Templar's worst spammable, Sweep and Dark Flare are both worse). Its nerf was well deserved and it doesn't need a buff.

That said, Templar does have a lot of issues that need fixing, including Backlash reliability, lack of a mag source of major sorcery, the fact that Radiant Aura basically does nothing, lack of mobility, and a bunch of passives that are too narrow and only affect a few specific skills.

The solution to Templar isn't bringing it back to the one-button Jabs-spammer days, it's buffing/replacing underperforming abilities to enable a new approach.

Skulptro

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Jabs is already among the better class spammables (heck, it's not even Templar's worst spammable, Sweep and Dark Flare are both worse). Its nerf was well deserved and it doesn't need a buff.

The solution to Templar isn't bringing it back to the one-button Jabs-spammer days, it's buffing/replacing underperforming abilities to enable a new approach.

May be nerf was well deserved, but it was too hard. 25% was way too much. 10-15% coul be fine. Why not 25%? May be because it is a channel, so no block-casting. May be because it is not targeted, so if the enemy is moving, especially if moving fast + ping + lag = damage is not registrated. Where you see a person on your screen is where the person was 1-1.3 seconds ago, so server thinks, that you are jabbing the air near the target. Sometimes you hit 1 of 3 jabs, sometimes 2. Only in very specific situations you can reliably land all 3 jabs. So the REAL tooltip is 2/3 of it's number in skill description.

And it was never one button. You also needed CC, also needed PotL and Ultimate inside of your offensive combo.

I have to admit, that there is a tonn of problems with class. When we had our skills actually doing some damage, all this problems were not so obvious.

TechMaybeHic

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Jabs is already among the better class spammables (heck, it's not even Templar's worst spammable, Sweep and Dark Flare are both worse). Its nerf was well deserved and it doesn't need a buff.

That said, Templar does have a lot of issues that need fixing, including Backlash reliability, lack of a mag source of major sorcery, the fact that Radiant Aura basically does nothing, lack of mobility, and a bunch of passives that are too narrow and only affect a few specific skills.

The solution to Templar isn't bringing it back to the one-button Jabs-spammer days, it's buffing/replacing underperforming abilities to enable a new approach.

They've been doing that. It it's been on things like Solare Barrage that still only does like 1600 per tick every 2 seconds before battle spirit, and they gave it a 5% damage increase to templar abilities only while some classes have 10% narly passively, or you can just slot camo hunter if you actually have the space to begin with.

Then root on blazing spear, and now taunt added to Sun Shield. I thought PvE templar was OK? PvP this stuff is useless. Maybe Templar tanks? But it seems to really miss on what they need.

PvP does need burst, though, as you said. I was trying to make it work with proxy det (which only does anything when crowd diving) or contingency or something. Maybe a proc set would do it. But it still comes back to "why templar ?" when you can pair anything outside of the class kit with any other better class kit.

ksbrugh

Cast_El wrote: »

Please do something. Add 5% more damage to jab, improve the snare duration. And rework power of the light... Rework passive.
Actually this class need so much work to be really good in pvp and not be a beam bot that everybody hate

Templars using jabs in PvP

Major_Mangle

Templar from a PvP perspective is good as long as you're not in an outnumbered situation. It's a fantastic class in smaller groups and will always have a spot in a duo (or at least it won't be bad). In duels templar is easily an S tier class, if not the best (even tho duels are mainly a sets vs sets thingy, templar is an incredibly strong spec for that scenario)

In terms of survivability templar is more than fine, the problem is that you rarely have an offensive window. Back when bubble (eclipse) was carrying templar survivability you had that, but it was objectively way too good.

What templar needs in PvP is to move some of the power away from beam and give it to backlash (amd maybe jabs/sweeps).

Theist_VII

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Templar from a PvP perspective is good as long as you're not in an outnumbered situation. It's a fantastic class in smaller groups and will always have a spot in a duo (or at least it won't be bad). In duels templar is easily an S tier class, if not the best (even tho duels are mainly a sets vs sets thingy, templar is an incredibly strong spec for that scenario)

In terms of survivability templar is more than fine, the problem is that you rarely have an offensive window. Back when bubble (eclipse) was carrying templar survivability you had that, but it was objectively way too good.

What templar needs in PvP is to move some of the power away from beam and give it to backlash (amd maybe jabs/sweeps).

Templar is only decent in a 1v1 because of Extended Ritual.

Even now though, players are getting more and more access to ways to flood negative effects, making that skill completely useless, and I mean look at Jarall’s. As soon as that set is introduced to a 1v1 and you’re on the receiving end as a Templar, you’ve lost the fight, there is no other class so complete and utterly shut down by a 2-piece. No debate whatsoever.

That’s also why they are absolute trash when fighting outnumbered. When players were only capable of 2-3 negative effects on you at a time, the class was much more approachable.

Adding more ways to protect against yourself from those negative effects should be paramount to improving the gameplay experience of the class.

That could look like a buff to Sun Shield as a buffer for your heal-over-times, Radiant Aura/Repentance could receive a selfish sustain benefit that would allow for more casting of Extended Ritual, or they could just outright double the amount of negative effects removed by the skill.

Making Sun Shield into a skill worth slotting seems to me, to be the least game breaking option, as infinite sustain or endless negative effect removal is not healthy for the game.

Theist_VII

Also want to add, Jabs do great damage to their initial target when they are not affected by Minor and/or Major Evasion.

Two things need to happen to the skill.

Your initial target needs to be considered Single-Target, and the cleave needs to do more damage, like 75% of the initial damage on both morphs.

mmtaniac

Sometimes i think that jabs only deal that second damage to enemies in pvp those cleave not that main part.