Feedback on Templar ability Backlash

KainedED · March 9

- Decrease it's time to explosion to 4 seconds

- Reduce the amount of damage needed to cap its final hit

- ensure final burst hitting if dispelled for whatever amount is stored

- make the final hit deal AoE for the amount of effort required to produce the damage

The ability does not feel good to use.

Alternatively ( and ideally )It would honestly be better to have the spell be reworked entirely with two formats of the spell to allow melee & ranged gameplay.

Melee Variant:

Light attacking an enemy stacks an Aura charge up to 5. Toggling this ability enacts an aura hitting foes up to 10m. each aura tick pulses every 2 seconds when activated and cannot stack while toggled on. Enemies hit by this aura will be major breached for 10 seconds

The aura ticks would be similar to Crescent sweeps secondary pulse effect.

This seems pretty lore friendly and adds to the class flavor.

Ranged Variant:

Using a templar ability builds a stack of radiance, at 5 stacks call down a spear that slowly falls on target impacting with great force after 4 seconds striking anything in 5m. Enemies struck by this spear will be afflicted by the burning status effect and minor breached.

Here's just some spitballing in terms of ideas, but my entire point is the Templar class offensively feels extremely bland.the focus shifted the entire jab spamming in to beam spamming and no problems were solved, the class only feels worse and a lot more boring.

I really think the focus should be on introducing different play styles like melee, ranged, tank, healer using the same abilities without over bloating abilities.

I wish I could just get 15 mins to talk to the combat team honestly and pick their brains and understand what design philosophy they're using.

splitsand · March 9

They don't care about templar, just slot beam and sit in the back until someone gets to low HP. Just play NB, it's what they want you to do.

gariondavey · March 10

If backlash is changed to 4 seconds it should just do a delayed damage amount regardless of the damage you deal.

Essentially a 4 second curse.

VinnyGambini · March 10

I said it some time ago, but how about this:

By dealing dmg, backlash dmg is increased by 10%, up to 200% max. This way you have to stay offensive to archieve max dmg, but if your opponent is tanky and blocks, it won't save him.

Cast_El · March 10

The previous version was so good, they should have reduced the damage copied pourcentage to 30% down from 40%.
Before 40% it was 20% and it was bad. 40% was too much so 30% should have been ok. But they changed it entirely

Billium813 · March 10

One thing that bothers me about Backlash is knowing when you're at the 200% cap. There isn't really a good visual indication since the animation doesn't appear any different.

How about a guaranteed Critical hit if the damage has reached the cap?

Cast_El · March 11

Billium813 wrote: »

One thing that bothers me about Backlash is knowing when you're at the 200% cap. There isn't really a good visual indication since the animation doesn't appear any different.

How about a guaranteed Critical hit if the damage has reached the cap?

This would become too powerfull. I agree visual could be different

VinnyGambini · March 11

The problem is, you need to reach 36k dmg to reach 200% cap. If opponent is blocking, there is no way that you will reach this dmg in 5s. Also if your opponent plays bash build with 40k armor, there is no way you will reach the cap.
Basically the only way to reach dmg cap is either zaan, or destro ult. Other classes do not need this for their burst skill properly working.
Unfair.

hesobad · March 11

ZOS hates Templars, just retire the Templar and play the incredibly OP blessed by ZOS Nightblade

Billium813 · March 11

VinnyGambini wrote: »

The problem is, you need to reach 36k dmg to reach 200% cap. If opponent is blocking, there is no way that you will reach this dmg in 5s. Also if your opponent plays bash build with 40k armor, there is no way you will reach the cap.
Basically the only way to reach dmg cap is either zaan, or destro ult. Other classes do not need this for their burst skill properly working.
Unfair.

Is that true? 36k damage in PvP to reach the cap? I'd like to say that can't be true, but as I stated before, it's hard to know when you're even at the cap visually. I just chalk up low numbers to resistances.

On average, I go: PotL, Stampede, Jabs, Jabs, Crescent Sweep. Then PotL pops for ~5k. That's gotta be cap, right?

VinnyGambini · March 11

Billium813 wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

The problem is, you need to reach 36k dmg to reach 200% cap. If opponent is blocking, there is no way that you will reach this dmg in 5s. Also if your opponent plays bash build with 40k armor, there is no way you will reach the cap.
Basically the only way to reach dmg cap is either zaan, or destro ult. Other classes do not need this for their burst skill properly working.
Unfair.

Is that true? 36k damage in PvP to reach the cap? I'd like to say that can't be true, but as I stated before, it's hard to know when you're even at the cap visually. I just chalk up low numbers to resistances.

On average, I go: PotL, Stampede, Jabs, Jabs, Crescent Sweep. Then PotL pops for ~5k. That's gotta be cap, right?

I tested this 36k dmg on NPC, but I'm 100% positive that in PvP scenario the cap is the same. Your combo is probably around 100% increase, not 200%.

ZDunlain · March 12

splitsand wrote: »

They don't care about templar, just slot beam and sit in the back until someone gets to low HP. Just play NB, it's what they want you to do.

Literally this is the easiest way to play templar, just rely on others to deal damage and spam beam lol https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=609041

Cloudrest · March 12

Backlash is fine. I've been hitting 12-14k crits with it rather commonly in Cyrodiil, and I even managed to crit a 21.5k earlier today. Just have to adapt your build-- took me a while to find something I enjoy playing. I'm not even running beam and I can reliably kill most anyone I come across.

The issue with Templar currently is how crappy jabs/sweeps are. Those need a serious buff.

Crit compilation (last patch):

https://medal.tv/games/eso/clips/1WtVarb92lH1mj/d133744k5CZU?invite=cr-MSxmVm8sMzM3NTI5ODEs

21.5k Purifying Light crit (this patch):

https://medal.tv/games/eso/clips/20D3DIxiTGC_vI/d1337hsUdVBQ?invite=cr-MSxsdmUsMzM3NTI5ODEs

Billium813 · March 13

@Cloudrest

How in the world are you getting it to crit for 20k? Iv never gotten it to crit in Cyrodiil for more then 10k, mostly ~5k... Clearly I'm doing something wrong

Cloudrest · March 13

Billium813 wrote: »

@Cloudrest

How in the world are you getting it to crit for 20k? Iv never gotten it to crit in Cyrodiil for more then 10k, mostly ~5k... Clearly I'm doing something wrong

It's a mixture of crit damage modifiers, pen, and lightning staff to commonly see 12-14k PL crits. Admittedly, the 21.5k crit is a bit cheesed as the player is being spam healed by a healer which allows me to build up more damage whilst being affected by guard vuln.

Nonetheless, PL can do great damage if you build for it. Every component of my build is visible in the clip via Srendarr buffs-- there's nothing I'm particularly doing that's special.

VinnyGambini · March 13

Cloudrest wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

@Cloudrest

How in the world are you getting it to crit for 20k? Iv never gotten it to crit in Cyrodiil for more then 10k, mostly ~5k... Clearly I'm doing something wrong

It's a mixture of crit damage modifiers, pen, and lightning staff to commonly see 12-14k PL crits. Admittedly, the 21.5k crit is a bit cheesed as the player is being spam healed by a healer which allows me to build up more damage whilst being affected by guard vuln.

Nonetheless, PL can do great damage if you build for it. Every component of my build is visible in the clip via Srendarr buffs-- there's nothing I'm particularly doing that's special.

And thats exactly the problem, you have to build around 1 ability, to make it work. Other classes doesnt have to do that. Thats unfair, rework is a good idea.

KainedED · March 13

Cloudrest wrote: »

Backlash is fine. I've been hitting 12-14k crits with it rather commonly in Cyrodiil, and I even managed to crit a 21.5k earlier today. Just have to adapt your build-- took me a while to find something I enjoy playing. I'm not even running beam and I can reliably kill most anyone I come across.

The issue with Templar currently is how crappy jabs/sweeps are. Those need a serious buff.

Crit compilation (last patch):

https://medal.tv/games/eso/clips/1WtVarb92lH1mj/d133744k5CZU?invite=cr-MSxmVm8sMzM3NTI5ODEs

21.5k Purifying Light crit (this patch):

https://medal.tv/games/eso/clips/20D3DIxiTGC_vI/d1337hsUdVBQ?invite=cr-MSxsdmUsMzM3NTI5ODEs

To clarify, the ability does damage I am very aware of this.

It's just a very predictable, clunky, & unfun ability to use and could really use a rework or restructure.

Billium813 · March 13

Cloudrest wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

@Cloudrest

How in the world are you getting it to crit for 20k? Iv never gotten it to crit in Cyrodiil for more then 10k, mostly ~5k... Clearly I'm doing something wrong

It's a mixture of crit damage modifiers, pen, and lightning staff to commonly see 12-14k PL crits. Admittedly, the 21.5k crit is a bit cheesed as the player is being spam healed by a healer which allows me to build up more damage whilst being affected by guard vuln.

Nonetheless, PL can do great damage if you build for it. Every component of my build is visible in the clip via Srendarr buffs-- there's nothing I'm particularly doing that's special.

I feel like I have good pen, but I still can't seem to get PotL up over 5k on a regular pop. I just wish I could tell if I'm at 200%, or if the issue is that I'm not getting to the cap. There's no visual indication that I'm at the cap. The tooltip says

So, a 200% would be 13,413 (6706 with BS). That's gonna be much lower though once resistance is applied. Like I said, I never see a PotL pop over 5k regular and 10k w/ crit.

We have 3 sliders: WD/SD (Base damage), Pen (Damage applied), and Crit (chance for double damage). If things like Pen or Crit chance are limiting, build around factors, would it be too strong to make it a guaranteed crit, or ignore resistances, once 200% is achieved? Something to make it more universally accessible? It just feels like it HAS to crit in order to do any real damage for most players.

KainedED · March 13

Billium813 wrote: »

Cloudrest wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

@Cloudrest

How in the world are you getting it to crit for 20k? Iv never gotten it to crit in Cyrodiil for more then 10k, mostly ~5k... Clearly I'm doing something wrong

It's a mixture of crit damage modifiers, pen, and lightning staff to commonly see 12-14k PL crits. Admittedly, the 21.5k crit is a bit cheesed as the player is being spam healed by a healer which allows me to build up more damage whilst being affected by guard vuln.

Nonetheless, PL can do great damage if you build for it. Every component of my build is visible in the clip via Srendarr buffs-- there's nothing I'm particularly doing that's special.

I feel like I have good pen, but I still can't seem to get PotL up over 5k on a regular pop. I just wish I could tell if I'm at 200%, or if the issue is that I'm not getting to the cap. There's no visual indication that I'm at the cap. The tooltip says

So, a 200% would be 13,413 (6706 with BS). That's gonna be much lower though once resistance is applied. Like I said, I never see a PotL pop over 5k regular and 10k w/ crit.

We have 3 sliders: WD/SD (Base damage), Pen (Damage applied), and Crit (chance for double damage). If things like Pen or Crit chance are limiting, build around factors, would it be too strong to make it a guaranteed crit, or ignore resistances, once 200% is achieved? Something to make it more universally accessible? It just feels like it HAS to crit in order to do any real damage for most players.

At 7400 tooltip I'm reliably seeing it go off for about 7-8k. crits are about 10-13k If Im able to put in full combos.

Here's just a quick example of a fight I just had ( keep in mind CMX doesn't show reliable POTL numbers because it doesn't add up overkill damage to your values)