Lightning Staff cleave is incorrect?

Billium813 · March 2023

I'm wondering if someone can explain this to me. According the the Tri-Focus passive, Lightning Staves should be doing 100% damage as a cleave AOE, correct? I was seeing numbers smaller than 100% from both the channel AND the AOE.

640 ÷ 932 = 0.6866952789699570815450643776824
960 ÷ 1398 = 0.6866952789699570815450643776824
(crit) 2882 ÷ 4198 = 0.6865173892329680800381133873273

Am I missing something or is the cleave damage really ~69% rather than the tooltip amount of 100%?

virtus753 · March 2023

I’ve been meaning to check this out myself.

I know that we have to consider Lightning Staff passives (extra AoE damage) and CP bonuses. Deadly Aim improves the heavy itself, but it should not boost Trifocus. (Biting Aura should do Trifocus but not the heavy.) Thaumaturge buffs the first two ticks of the heavy, but Master at Arms buffs the third tick and presumably Trifocus.

Deadly Strike should buff the whole channel but not Trifocus.

I imagine 100% means 100% of the damage before buffs like that are applied. That isn’t to say it’s working correctly. Just to say a lot more has to be considered than “it should be identical.” In most cases it should not be identical.

ETA: I also think Storm Master and Sergeant’s might not apply, since those are procs and shouldn’t apply to procs? But that’s hugely inconsistent (see proc sets proccing status effects but not the reverse).

Billium813 · March 2023

virtus753 wrote: »

I’ve been meaning to check this out myself.

I know that we have to consider Lightning Staff passives (extra AoE damage) and CP bonuses. Deadly Aim improves the heavy itself, but it should not boost Trifocus. (Biting Aura should do Trifocus but not the heavy.) Thaumaturge buffs the first two ticks of the heavy, but Master at Arms buffs the third tick and presumably Trifocus.

Deadly Strike should buff the whole channel but not Trifocus.

I imagine 100% means 100% of the damage before buffs like that are applied. That isn’t to say it’s working correctly. Just to say a lot more has to be considered than “it should be identical.” In most cases it should not be identical.

ETA: I also think Storm Master and Sergeant’s might not apply, since those are procs and shouldn’t apply to procs? But that’s hugely inconsistent (see proc sets proccing status effects but not the reverse).

Thanks for taking a look! I forgot to include it, but that gif was taken with NO CP passives or slottables, and no gear. Perhaps there is something else going on here, but I couldn't find the answer in my other skill passives. I have all the skill passives, minus class passives.

I was interested in testing with Deadly Strike set later, but haven't gotten to it yet (as a Templar main it comes to mind rather quickly for testing xD)

perfiction · March 2023

All CP unslotted, no gear equipped (only frontbar staff), CBA resetting racial and destro passives so it's something to try next if you want to keep testing. Yeah cleave damage scaling is weird.

BaalMelqartu · March 2023

Is it possible that in this instance,
-2622 is what the primary target takes after the damage has met against the target's resistances and defense.
-Then 2622 damage is applied to secondary targets via tri focus but that damage runs up against the resistances and defenses of the secondary targets and after that, 1800 is the resulting number?

I'm by no means a pro at this sort of thing and I don't even know for sure that dummies would have any resistances, etc but just a guess from an amateur.

jaws343 · March 2023

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

Is it possible that in this instance,
-2622 is what the primary target takes after the damage has met against the target's resistances and defense.
-Then 2622 damage is applied to secondary targets via tri focus but that damage runs up against the resistances and defenses of the secondary targets and after that, 1800 is the resulting number?

I'm by no means a pro at this sort of thing and I don't even know for sure that dummies would have any resistances, etc but just a guess from an amateur.

That's probably it. The dummies have 18200 resistance, or around 28% mitigation. Which is fairly close to the differences here +/- a few other factors likely at play.

virtus753 · March 2023

Yes, that makes sense. It says “damage done,” so it should take the number after mitigation.

ZOS_Kraken · March 2023

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Billium813 · March 2023

I see. So the cleave damage is double dipping into the resistence of both the primary and secondary targets. The damage is reduced for the primary resistence,, then the result is the "Damage Done". Then, that "Damage Done" is applied to the secondary target resistence which reduces the damage further. I suppose that could make sense! I wonder how high I can get my penetration without influencing anything else...

Also, would we expect the Ancient Knowledge passive to increase the cleave damage from the Heavy Attack? Both the channel and the final hit of Heavy Attack both cleave. I'm looking at Deadly Strike, which only should increase the channel damage.

Billium813 · March 2023

Ok, so... why is the cleave damage now MORE than the primary targets damage? I have no CP, no racial passives, no class passives. Just weapon passives and a basic lightning staff.

WrathOfInnos · March 2023

Billium813 wrote: »

Ok, so... why is the cleave damage now MORE than the primary targets damage? I have no CP, no racial passives, no class passives. Just weapon passives and a basic lightning staff.

That's a funny phenomenon I hadn't noticed before. The side dummies are getting hit for 15% more damage. I would guess this is because they are getting the calculated 9746 damage as splash, which is then multiplied by their Major and Minor vulnerability debuffs (10% and 5%). Since the first dummy has these debuffs as well it is effectively double dipping in the free 15% boost.