Honest feedback coming:

It is not going to work the way you want it to.

ESOs economy is a minigame, not a public service. Okay?
There is a big community out there, that only plays ESO, because the economy is like it is.
Success directly reflects the amount of effort you put into it.
If you follow opinion leaders of the community, you will notice that they have been asking for a proper reward structure in ESO for years.
The economy is pretty much the last part of ESO of which you can say that it has.

It has detrimental side effects. Especially for newer players. No question about that.

But that is no reason to destroy the fun of others playing the game. Don't you think?

Under your system how would Quartermasters function?

Right now, Quartermasers are pretty useless as they don't get much traffic. If they linked into your new trader system their value would dramatically increase as Guilds could potentially save millions each week by just owning a location in Cyrodiil most of the time rather than bidding on a trader. This would potentially increase traffic in Cyrodiil somewhat but would also act as a significant damper on the ability of Guild Traders to sink gold.

If it's just Guild Traders you might ram into issues with Guilds buying up excessive amount of traders or going under with the changes. Most of the lower level Trade Guilds I have been in were bordering on being broke with the exception of the Guilds that were a larger Guilds baby trading guild. If the cost of the cheap locations goes up much many of the lower tier ones might die and the larger guilds might buy them up. If I don't like a trading guilds policies I can easily join another guild. If you end up with 30 Guilds and their sock puppets owning the majority of the traders you might not have that option.

(The people that like the current system are very vocal because it is very profitable for many of them so you aren't going to get much support on forums)

Don't get down if people on forums don't like your ideas as forums tend to attract people with strong opinions and those that spend lots of time on forums end up being a bit grouchy. The more stars you see the higher chance we've already said all we have to say that is of much value.

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

King_*** wrote: »

Economy

What needs to change?

• The guild trader system alone is failing and in need of a massive overhaul. ESO has come out after older MMORPG's such as RuneScape, and FFXIV which have paved the way laying down ground work of what ESO should have followed and improved.
  
  
• Player's should have a feature for viewing an item's history, past sales, a list prices the item were bought/sold for including the names of the players who bought/sold the item.
  
  
• Player's should be able to find Market Boards in every country or a central trading Country/Island area that all guild traders in the game are linked too displaying all listed items in one place giving steady consistent pricing, and competitive prices.
  
  
• The idea of players traveling to one area searching for items, and seeing a whole list of that item Sounds a whole lot better than the alternative.
  
  
• Currently the alternative is using a function outside of the game such as TTC, a website used as a tool to locate desired items which may have been gone for hours, but is still listed as last seen as if the item is still at the listed location.
  
  
• The game should still require a guild to purchase a guild trader in order to sell the products as usual. This change will make every guild trader a prime location making all the guild traders bids worth the same no matter the location as the race to the bid war would be to win and obtain a guild trader. Not to find the best location.
  
  
• Prime location guild trader bids go down in price while simultaneously raising the price of all the other guild traders with terrible locations like the traders in the refuges.

How this would effect the economy?

• First and foremost, what I am suggesting is a Market Board, Not an Auction House. The difference between a Auction house and a Market Board is that Market Boards allow more freedom.
  
  
• Any item that is listed at any price, can be bought/sold without biding, exactly how guild traders work now which is first come, first served.
  
  
• The Auction House forces players to bid on the items instead of letting player flat out buy it. Market Board allows for competitive pricing and fair pricing increasing the gold rate for every player, not just the Rich Players which would be like the top 1% of the game.
  
  
• Players would never be forced to go from guild trader to trader trying to find one particular item, or better price.
  
  
• Making a Market Board or Central trading Island/Country a one stop shop increasing the quality of life as everything would be convenient for the players.
  
  
• Player's should not have to waste time traveling from guild trader to trader, country to country for endless hours searching for items.
  
  
• Less inflation as farmed items would be purchased/sold a lot faster due to undercutting and fair pricing.
  
  
• Less players being scammed, or taken advantage of as the players would have the tools IN GAME without the need of addons to have the information available to the player at all times.
  
  
• Undercutting doesn't stop sales, it only slows sales, player's who undercut get sales faster, while player's who don't budge still sell, but not as fast. All items sold cheaper listed below would bought out until the next in line is next to be sold.
  
  
• Having access to the history option will prevent players from exploiting the market placing items up at whatever unreasonable price the player wanted as players would be able to view the history of that items transaction history.
  
  An example would be a sold out item, A player holds the monopoly currently being the only individual listing the item at that time due to the item just selling out. Another player should be able to check the transaction history of the item and make a proper judgement of worth.

I thought about this and planned to respond with more, however I think to sum this up under your recommendations we would no longer have a free-market approach to the economy.

However, there's an old saying and having bought/sold many things for years with ESO, I can tell you that no matter how good or bad it gets the market will fix itself. Undercutters don't always sell. Some people choose not to undercut because they're not looking to move things fast. See there are many reasons why things work the way they do in a free-market economy and I think, although I will agree with you somewhat that there are drawbacks as well as some issues ZOS might could help us with, its better to have a freedom driven market which we have now, rather than anything centrally planned and policed for 'fairness', which will definitely lead to even greater problems.

I don't see how any of these changes is a necessity. Guild trader system is perfectly fine as it is imo. This running from trader to trader argument doesn't really hold, as in almost any case you are perfectly fine searching the 5-6 traders in any major location, which doesn't even take any considerable time. It's a very, very rare occasion when i need an item, search the traders in the zone that i'm in and fail to find it there.

The topic has been coming up for several years. Never became popular and for good reason too. There can always be improvements sure, but the trading system in ESO definitely doesn't need a major overhaul whatsoever.

themaddaedra wrote: »

I don't see how any of these changes is a necessity. Guild trader system is perfectly fine as it is imo. This running from trader to trader argument doesn't really hold, as in almost any case you are perfectly fine searching the 5-6 traders in any major location, which doesn't even take any considerable time. It's a very, very rare occasion when i need an item, search the traders in the zone that i'm in and fail to find it there.

The topic has been coming up for several years. Never became popular and for good reason too. There can always be improvements sure, but the trading system in ESO definitely doesn't need a major overhaul whatsoever.

Personally I feel like the topic has never gotten much momentum because ESO is the First and only MMORPG that current ESO player's have played. Most of these player's never experience any other system, so they often get defensive and don't want to see a system change that they're already used to until they've actually experienced something better that works in far more immersive ways.

Vulkunne wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Economy

What needs to change?

• The guild trader system alone is failing and in need of a massive overhaul. ESO has come out after older MMORPG's such as RuneScape, and FFXIV which have paved the way laying down ground work of what ESO should have followed and improved.
  
  
• Player's should have a feature for viewing an item's history, past sales, a list prices the item were bought/sold for including the names of the players who bought/sold the item.
  
  
• Player's should be able to find Market Boards in every country or a central trading Country/Island area that all guild traders in the game are linked too displaying all listed items in one place giving steady consistent pricing, and competitive prices.
  
  
• The idea of players traveling to one area searching for items, and seeing a whole list of that item Sounds a whole lot better than the alternative.
  
  
• Currently the alternative is using a function outside of the game such as TTC, a website used as a tool to locate desired items which may have been gone for hours, but is still listed as last seen as if the item is still at the listed location.
  
  
• The game should still require a guild to purchase a guild trader in order to sell the products as usual. This change will make every guild trader a prime location making all the guild traders bids worth the same no matter the location as the race to the bid war would be to win and obtain a guild trader. Not to find the best location.
  
  
• Prime location guild trader bids go down in price while simultaneously raising the price of all the other guild traders with terrible locations like the traders in the refuges.

How this would effect the economy?

• First and foremost, what I am suggesting is a Market Board, Not an Auction House. The difference between a Auction house and a Market Board is that Market Boards allow more freedom.
  
  
• Any item that is listed at any price, can be bought/sold without biding, exactly how guild traders work now which is first come, first served.
  
  
• The Auction House forces players to bid on the items instead of letting player flat out buy it. Market Board allows for competitive pricing and fair pricing increasing the gold rate for every player, not just the Rich Players which would be like the top 1% of the game.
  
  
• Players would never be forced to go from guild trader to trader trying to find one particular item, or better price.
  
  
• Making a Market Board or Central trading Island/Country a one stop shop increasing the quality of life as everything would be convenient for the players.
  
  
• Player's should not have to waste time traveling from guild trader to trader, country to country for endless hours searching for items.
  
  
• Less inflation as farmed items would be purchased/sold a lot faster due to undercutting and fair pricing.
  
  
• Less players being scammed, or taken advantage of as the players would have the tools IN GAME without the need of addons to have the information available to the player at all times.
  
  
• Undercutting doesn't stop sales, it only slows sales, player's who undercut get sales faster, while player's who don't budge still sell, but not as fast. All items sold cheaper listed below would bought out until the next in line is next to be sold.
  
  
• Having access to the history option will prevent players from exploiting the market placing items up at whatever unreasonable price the player wanted as players would be able to view the history of that items transaction history.
  
  An example would be a sold out item, A player holds the monopoly currently being the only individual listing the item at that time due to the item just selling out. Another player should be able to check the transaction history of the item and make a proper judgement of worth.

I thought about this and planned to respond with more, however I think to sum this up under your recommendations we would no longer have a free-market approach to the economy.

However, there's an old saying and having bought/sold many things for years with ESO, I can tell you that no matter how good or bad it gets the market will fix itself. Undercutters don't always sell. Some people choose not to undercut because they're not looking to move things fast. See there are many reasons why things work the way they do in a free-market economy and I think, although I will agree with you somewhat that there are drawbacks as well as some issues ZOS might could help us with, its better to have a freedom driven market which we have now, rather than anything centrally planned and policed for 'fairness', which will definitely lead to even greater problems.

I disagree, It would still be a fair free market, it already works in FFXIV with no issues. It also already works in RuneScape with no issues. The undercut prices don't always sell, however, they will always sell before the higher prices of that same item because who as a consumer will see a list of items being sold and choose the more expensive item verses the cheaper price of that same item? of course people will grab the cheaper listed item.

Go around asking the average player, especially on console, console players verses PC players are so broke, they're luckily to make 100k in a month, and that's the average player, it's a major issue. PC offer's far more opportunities especially with the additional help of addons.

The system simply has to change for the better especially when there's already other system out there doing it working flawlessly.

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Under your system how would Quartermasters function?

Right now, Quartermasers are pretty useless as they don't get much traffic. If they linked into your new trader system their value would dramatically increase as Guilds could potentially save millions each week by just owning a location in Cyrodiil most of the time rather than bidding on a trader. This would potentially increase traffic in Cyrodiil somewhat but would also act as a significant damper on the ability of Guild Traders to sink gold.

If it's just Guild Traders you might ram into issues with Guilds buying up excessive amount of traders or going under with the changes. Most of the lower level Trade Guilds I have been in were bordering on being broke with the exception of the Guilds that were a larger Guilds baby trading guild. If the cost of the cheap locations goes up much many of the lower tier ones might die and the larger guilds might buy them up. If I don't like a trading guilds policies I can easily join another guild. If you end up with 30 Guilds and their sock puppets owning the majority of the traders you might not have that option.

(The people that like the current system are very vocal because it is very profitable for many of them so you aren't going to get much support on forums)

Don't get down if people on forums don't like your ideas as forums tend to attract people with strong opinions and those that spend lots of time on forums end up being a bit grouchy. The more stars you see the higher chance we've already said all we have to say that is of much value.

I don't mind, I welcome all feed back.

So Quartermasters would work the same way they do in FFXIV. I really wouldn't call it my system, but for example, in FFXIV, retainers are essentially ESO's guild traders, and retainers and be placed on player's housing lands. Player housing is different in FFXIV than it is ESO. FFXIV has housing wards players can visit which are essentially player neighborhoods, and every house on the block is another player's house player's can visit. Players can visit these individual retainers that are only selling what that player is selling on that retainer, or players can goto the marketboard and view what every retainer in the game is selling.

Also i'm not proposing for guilds to be able to buy more than 1 guild trader at a time, each guild still limited to one, but at least PVP guilds in cyrodiil can take over keeps, resources and list items for sale to compete without the need of players having to forcibly travel to those select locations. It's a better idea overall if you view it that way. The gold sink wouldn't change for the negative, it would actually sink more gold overall as the main prime locations go down, the cheaper none prime locations would go way up equalizing all the prices.

No thanks.
What the game needs is its performance addressed.

meekmiko wrote: »

I've played RuneScape.
And I play FFXIV.

I absolutely hate the marketplace in those games.
It might be good for the people buying, but it's absolutely horrid for the people selling. You're constantly undercut to the point where things just become absolutely pointless to even list. At least with ESO you don't deal with this even a fraction as much.

I also want to point out. Games like FFXIV have a literal TON of worlds/servers so depending on what server you're in the prices could be drastically different.
However, ESO has TWO whole mega servers. You will be competing against EVERYONE on either the NA server, or if you're on the EU server you'll be fighting everyone over there.


No. Thanks.

I don't know how you're having trouble selling in those games, you list whatever you want to sell, and it sells, also they have more products in that game to sell that you can farm and obtain a particular amount at an hourly rate. You can obtain a guaranteed quantity within that time limit set, and sell it for that guaranteed profit, like dragon bones, and green dragon hides. Made 1.5m an hour selling that stuff at the median price without undercutting and it always sold. ESO it's damn near impossible to get items worth selling at an hourly rate, and actually selling the products...

Nope, no thanks.

Grega wrote: »

Yea. Pretty much everyone is going to say no.

@King_*** sorry, you are in vast minority here, if not alone.

True in terms of the forums, the vast majority of player's who agree in game or in discords don't use forums unfortunately Lol. So it just seems that way. 80% of the game don't even touch the forums. lol

@King_***
The guild trader system has three serious problems, none of them are even remotely connected to what you say or solvable by what you propose.
1. You can pump real life money in the market, because there is black market crown trading, ESOplus with the craft bag and you can use Alt accounts as storage mules.
2. TTC and Master Merchant serve only to drive up prices and keep rare items in rotation, rather than stabilize prices and get the items to those that would use/consume it. That mostly has to do with how the prices are displayed and the psychology that comes with it. And all the advantages of spread out guild trader posts are blown out of the window.
3. The infinite storage of crafting mats with ESOplus has had the effect that most players do not bother putting crafting mats on the market, if they do not need the cash. Resulting in a situation where the amount of available goods stagnates and the currency asking for goods constantly rises, constantly driving up prices for crafting mats in turn.

All resulting in a economy where you can always bet on price developement and reap giant rewards if you have the cash, tge knowledge and the patience.

By the way, most of your problems are solved if TTC would allow filtering on their website, instead of just sorting by one attribute. You know, creating a query that returns the lowest price AND the last seen entry at the same time.

King_*** wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Economy

What needs to change?

• The guild trader system alone is failing and in need of a massive overhaul. ESO has come out after older MMORPG's such as RuneScape, and FFXIV which have paved the way laying down ground work of what ESO should have followed and improved.
  
  
• Player's should have a feature for viewing an item's history, past sales, a list prices the item were bought/sold for including the names of the players who bought/sold the item.
  
  
• Player's should be able to find Market Boards in every country or a central trading Country/Island area that all guild traders in the game are linked too displaying all listed items in one place giving steady consistent pricing, and competitive prices.
  
  
• The idea of players traveling to one area searching for items, and seeing a whole list of that item Sounds a whole lot better than the alternative.
  
  
• Currently the alternative is using a function outside of the game such as TTC, a website used as a tool to locate desired items which may have been gone for hours, but is still listed as last seen as if the item is still at the listed location.
  
  
• The game should still require a guild to purchase a guild trader in order to sell the products as usual. This change will make every guild trader a prime location making all the guild traders bids worth the same no matter the location as the race to the bid war would be to win and obtain a guild trader. Not to find the best location.
  
  
• Prime location guild trader bids go down in price while simultaneously raising the price of all the other guild traders with terrible locations like the traders in the refuges.

How this would effect the economy?

• First and foremost, what I am suggesting is a Market Board, Not an Auction House. The difference between a Auction house and a Market Board is that Market Boards allow more freedom.
  
  
• Any item that is listed at any price, can be bought/sold without biding, exactly how guild traders work now which is first come, first served.
  
  
• The Auction House forces players to bid on the items instead of letting player flat out buy it. Market Board allows for competitive pricing and fair pricing increasing the gold rate for every player, not just the Rich Players which would be like the top 1% of the game.
  
  
• Players would never be forced to go from guild trader to trader trying to find one particular item, or better price.
  
  
• Making a Market Board or Central trading Island/Country a one stop shop increasing the quality of life as everything would be convenient for the players.
  
  
• Player's should not have to waste time traveling from guild trader to trader, country to country for endless hours searching for items.
  
  
• Less inflation as farmed items would be purchased/sold a lot faster due to undercutting and fair pricing.
  
  
• Less players being scammed, or taken advantage of as the players would have the tools IN GAME without the need of addons to have the information available to the player at all times.
  
  
• Undercutting doesn't stop sales, it only slows sales, player's who undercut get sales faster, while player's who don't budge still sell, but not as fast. All items sold cheaper listed below would bought out until the next in line is next to be sold.
  
  
• Having access to the history option will prevent players from exploiting the market placing items up at whatever unreasonable price the player wanted as players would be able to view the history of that items transaction history.
  
  An example would be a sold out item, A player holds the monopoly currently being the only individual listing the item at that time due to the item just selling out. Another player should be able to check the transaction history of the item and make a proper judgement of worth.

I thought about this and planned to respond with more, however I think to sum this up under your recommendations we would no longer have a free-market approach to the economy.

However, there's an old saying and having bought/sold many things for years with ESO, I can tell you that no matter how good or bad it gets the market will fix itself. Undercutters don't always sell. Some people choose not to undercut because they're not looking to move things fast. See there are many reasons why things work the way they do in a free-market economy and I think, although I will agree with you somewhat that there are drawbacks as well as some issues ZOS might could help us with, its better to have a freedom driven market which we have now, rather than anything centrally planned and policed for 'fairness', which will definitely lead to even greater problems.

I disagree, It would still be a fair free market, it already works in FFXIV with no issues. It also already works in RuneScape with no issues. The undercut prices don't always sell, however, they will always sell before the higher prices of that same item because who as a consumer will see a list of items being sold and choose the more expensive item verses the cheaper price of that same item? of course people will grab the cheaper listed item.

Go around asking the average player, especially on console, console players verses PC players are so broke, they're luckily to make 100k in a month, and that's the average player, it's a major issue. PC offer's far more opportunities especially with the additional help of addons.

The system simply has to change for the better especially when there's already other system out there doing it working flawlessly.

Thank you for your reply.

The only thing I would say is that ESO isn't one of those other games. This is important because some might view this as saying that ESO needs to change or conform to be like something else, ergo, that is kin to saying ESO should become something it is not. This will drive people away from your argument because some of us don't play those other games and indeed I play ESO at the expense of playing other games or doing other things right? Hahaha.

That said and I'll leave it at this, while going thru your list, again some things ZOS could help us with. But other things people could be perhaps a little more responsible for themselves and utilize mods that already exist for this purpose. So the tools are out there and its not anyone's place to educate people if they are not willing to learn. Add to that, again I noticed a pattern that suggest you (and others as well I'm certain) feel that things aren't fair.

From past experiences let me just say that fairness is a matter of the person's opinion. If you want to be treated fairly, if you want things to go your way then it start with changes that you need to make, even if there are other factors involved. Why do I say this? Because the only other option is to force others to make changes that you think are fair for everyone. And that's where the problem begins and then it gets worse when you try to police the matter. I've seen this time and time again and ultimately it leads to resentment and people rising up to put this down because once someone starts mandating what's fair for everyone I will step up and decide what is fair for myself and there is no satisfactory way to measure this between people because the concept of fairness is generally driven by feelings and not logic. Sometimes its better just to move on and understand you're dealing with a system that doesn't really favor anyone.

Maybe the problem is not with the game but with the person not willing to be responsible and learn how to adapt, learn how the market works. I've had my share of ups and downs and I didn't ask anyone to put a fix in for me I just learned from my mistakes and dealt with it, without asking anything from anyone. There's all kinds of tools out there and trade guilds with years of experience, and gold, willing to help people out but forcing something on an economy this big will not hurt the big traders it will just hold people back to protect someone else's feelings and cause even more misery.

"What needs to Change?" is a question that ideally, I believe, should start with the merchant first before going in there and forcing the rest of us to lose out on sales and opportunities, especially when these already exists for everyone. I am responsible for myself and not responsible for anyone else's education, budget, sales, bad fortune or lack of planning.

A central auction house would blow up the economy and make it far worse than it already is in my opinion. The cost of everything would explode and the people who play ESO as kind of a practice for buying/selling stocks in the real world would end up with WAY too much influence. Better to make those players have to spend hours searching each vendor spread out all over the realm.