800k people don't seem to mind difficult overworld

trackdemon5512 · October 2021

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

The developers of this game [...] have already stated that creating such a slider ZOS not easy on an individual level as the game scales to you.

Source? As a programmer this would be incredibly easy. The level scaling is just a health/damage multiplier. All you would have to do to adjust this for different difficulty shards is add another multiplier to that. It is literally a single multiplication operation which requires no noticeable server resources nor programming effort. Like typing 1*0.3 vs. 1*0.3*1.2.

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

In an MMORPG say you slid the slider to make the game easier for you rather than more difficult. Are you effectively gaming the system to cheese content?

Not at all because 1) the quality/frequency of drops/rewards and XP gained can be scaled based on the level of difficulty you are willing to face (again with an extremely simple multiplier operation) and 2) the only thing an easier difficulty in PVE overworld really buys you is convenience.

Besides for the easiest mode it would basically be unchanged from how it is now. You could even have just two modes for overworld to keep it simple: Normal (how it is now) and Veteran (increased difficulty, XP, rewards). That would be in keeping with the way they have set up dungeons, and the way it used to be with the old Veteran zones before One Tamriel, only as a universal OPTION. There is nothing bad about giving people options, especially when it WOULD be very easy to implement programmatically.

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

What about other players joining you?

Much like War Mode in World of Warcraft, being invited to a group with someone on a different setting would inform you "the person inviting you is in X mode and you are in Y. Do you wish to join the group and be synced to their mode?" The person inviting in other words would determine the mode the group would be set to, and everyone in the group would be at the same level.

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Changing individual difficulty is a selfish decision that has ramifications in a universal overworld, esp one in which you cannot control instances or switch to isolated servers.

It actually doesn't need to have ANY impact on the larger world if you understand how server sharding/instancing already works (which I explain in a previous post). Long story short, you CAN control instances and isolate servers: It is called sharding and it is already built into the game.

And keep in mind even people accustomed to Normal mode would benefit from the added DPS/skill of people who normally play on Veteran carrying some of their lower level/damage which would make getting invited to a veteran group, IF you accepted that invite, a lot less noticeable than you might imagine.

This is honestly a change that would really only benefit solo play by adding more options for people of different skill/gear/level/experience to enjoy, which is good for the longevity of the game while taking NOTHING from people who continue to play as it currently is.

Win win.

See this as the arguments have been done to death. Then look up LOTR and actual implementation for more information. I’ve no use for typing this all out again.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/575214/lotro-legendarium-the-mmo-added-a-difficulty-slider-maybe-one-day-we-can-also-have-that/p3

WhyMustItBe · October 2021

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

See this as the arguments have been done to death. Then look up LOTR and actual implementation for more information. I’ve no use for typing this all out again.

Um... OK?

Tandor · October 2021

It could also be argued that 800K people don't seem to mind auction houses, or any number of other things that are done differently in NW, but that doesn't mean that it's either appropriate or necessary to import those things into ESO to replace the way they're done here.

There's a perfectly valid argument for introducing an option for more challenging overland content in ESO but it's got nothing to do with NW or any other game, it's all down to how it would fit in with the rest of this game and what impact it would have on performance, balance, gear sets, and the use of developer resources etc as well the vision the developers have for the game.

trackdemon5512 · October 2021

Tandor wrote: »

It could also be argued that 800K people don't seem to mind auction houses, or any number of other things that are done differently in NW, but that doesn't mean that it's either appropriate or necessary to import those things into ESO to replace the way they're done here.

There's a perfectly valid argument for introducing an option for more challenging overland content in ESO but it's got nothing to do with NW or any other game, it's all down to how it would fit in with the rest of this game and what impact it would have on performance, balance, gear sets, and the use of developer resources etc as well the vision the developers have for the game.

I might add that a system for nerfing yourself in game is already in place via both the CP System and Gear Levels. Reconstruction and crafting for yourself /not eating food or putting in attributes nerf you plenty. Add self damaging poisons for more difficulty.

Asking the developers to create, test, implement, and keep up a third system on top of all that is a ridiculous waste of resources. And if you’re one of those individuals for whom naked runs are nothing then you’re part of the 99.9% and again developing for you is a waste because you’ll keep pushing yourself to go beyond a developer’s boundaries.

WhyMustItBe · October 2021

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

I might add that a system for nerfing yourself in game is already in place via both the CP System and Gear Levels. Reconstruction and crafting for yourself /not eating food or putting in attributes nerf you plenty. Add self damaging poisons for more difficulty.

Asking the developers to create, test, implement, and keep up a third system on top of all that is a ridiculous waste of resources. And if you’re one of those individuals for whom naked runs are nothing then you’re part of the 99.9% and again developing for you is a waste because you’ll keep pushing yourself to go beyond a developer’s boundaries.

You keep making statements like they are facts. "This would be too hard. This would take too much manpower." What are you basing this on? When confronted with counter points you don't acknowledge or address them. The link you posted doesn't contain any developer comments.

From a programming standpoint I have already explained specifically HOW this could be done, easily, using existing technology in the game. If the devs have given some reason why it would be difficult again, I would like a link to their actual comments.

As for "you can always nerf yourself" this is a typical red herring argument that is totally unrelated to what people are asking for. What people were asking for is an overland Veteran mode similar to pre-One Tamriel veteran zones as an OPTION with additional XP and rewards for those that CHOOSE to play it that way.

Nerfing yourself does none of that, so making that argument doesn't really make any more sense than just assuming it would be "too hard" without having anything to really base that on.

trackdemon5512 · October 2021

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

I might add that a system for nerfing yourself in game is already in place via both the CP System and Gear Levels. Reconstruction and crafting for yourself /not eating food or putting in attributes nerf you plenty. Add self damaging poisons for more difficulty.

Asking the developers to create, test, implement, and keep up a third system on top of all that is a ridiculous waste of resources. And if you’re one of those individuals for whom naked runs are nothing then you’re part of the 99.9% and again developing for you is a waste because you’ll keep pushing yourself to go beyond a developer’s boundaries.

It honestly sounds like you are arguing just for the sake of arguing. I asked for a source on claiming the devs had said this was difficult, and you linked me a random thread with no dev feedback at all.

You keep making statements like they are facts. "This would be too hard. This would take too much manpower." What are you basing this on? When confronted with counter points you don't acknowledge or address them.

From a programming standpoint I have already explained specifically HOW this could be done, easily, using existing technology in the game. If the devs have given some reason why it would be difficult again, I would like a link to their actual comments.

As for "you can always nerf yourself" this is a typical red herring argument that is totally unrelated to what people are asking for. What people were asking for is an overland Veteran mode similar to pre-One Tamriel veteran zones as an OPTION with additional XP and rewards for those that CHOOSE to play it that way.

Nerfing yourself does none of that, so making that argument doesn't really make any more sense than just assuming it would be "too hard" without having anything to really base that on.

Why does it need to be programmed in if you can already nerf yourself? Why, as a game developer, should I allocate resources and cash towards a system that has no use for the vast vast majority of my game population and that based upon established in game history from years ago nearly tanked the game.

Yes ESO would have been scrapped if not for the revisions that ended gated zones, tiered zone difficulties, and veteran content. Go back and read the years worth of posts and content about how hated the original Craglorn was and to a lesser extent today still is.

Just because you assert that something can be done doesn’t mean that it’s a wise idea. That’s especially important when your primary fiduciary duty is to shareholders and not a fickle small segment of your customer base.

The scaled difficulty argument has been addressed for years by the developers themselves. In forum posts and Twitch stream and at conventions. You can look it up via Google searches which is why I don’t bother going over fine points anymore. It’s a hard no on doing so. Ignoring that and positing that developing a slider should be done makes no sense.

Hallothiel · October 2021

@AlexanderDeLarge

Thanks for the info, but have been playing this game for over 6 years now (eek) & so fully remember what it was like before One Tamriel.

Just don’t agree with you or your suggestions. Have played when there were hard areas and don’t think the game is missing anything by having changed that.

SilverBride · October 2021

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Asking the developers to create, test, implement, and keep up a third system on top of all that is a ridiculous waste of resources.

I asked for a source on claiming the devs had said this was difficult, and you linked me a random thread with no dev feedback at all.

You keep making statements like they are facts.

I can't answer to this, but I brought a concrete fact to this discussion that keeps getting overlooked. Rich Lambert addressed this about a month ago and basically said no to veteran quests and delves.

drunkendx · October 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

There has been an increased focus on casual play, particularly with the introduction of Companions. I assume that this is because they can see what features players are utilizing and are continuing in that direction.

This, ZOS sees what sells, and what sells is easy overland.

WhyMustItBe · October 2021

There has also been a lot of power creep in the game since One Tamriel did away with veteran zones, so they would actually be less challenging now than they were back then.

The thing a lot of people don't seem to comprehend is the psychology behind game design. The need for constant progress is a strong motivation. People want to feel they are getting more powerful.

What if I told you "why waste money designing new raids, just run the old ones naked and nerf yourself."

People want to feel like they are progressing AND being challenged. If you can't understand why deleting your own progress doesn't accomplish this necessary aspect of game psychology, I don't think there is anything I could say to explain it.

SilverBride · October 2021

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

The thing a lot of people don't seem to comprehend is the psychology behind game design. The need for constant progress is a strong motivation. People want to feel they are getting more powerful.

I feel powerful if I can easily take out the mob standing between me and my objective.

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

People want to feel like they are progressing AND being challenged. If you can't understand why deleting your own progress doesn't accomplish this necessary aspect of game psychology, I don't think there is anything I could say to explain it.

Not every player wants to be challenged with every single thing they do. Many want to casually quest and enjoy the story, and know where to go when they want more of a challenge... to the arenas and dungeons and trials that were developed for this purpose.

WhyMustItBe · October 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Not every player wants to be challenged with every single thing they do. Many want to casually quest and enjoy the story, and know where to go when they want more of a challenge... to the arenas and dungeons and trials that were developed for this purpose.

This was more a response to the generic "just take off your clothes" fallacy. There's nothing wrong with not wanting challenge in normal activities. That is why people are suggesting an OPTIONAL toggle. Only people who want it, have to have it.

drunkendx · October 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Not every player wants to be challenged with every single thing they do. Many want to casually quest and enjoy the story, and know where to go when they want more of a challenge... to the arenas and dungeons and trials that were developed for this purpose.

Pretty much this.

I have enough challenge in my life without seeking it in my pastime.
when I play videogames, i play to relax, and ESO delivers.
and apparently, looking at what ZOS does with game, I'm not only player that wants that.

trackdemon5512 · October 2021

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

There has also been a lot of power creep in the game since One Tamriel did away with veteran zones, so they would actually be less challenging now than they were back then.

The thing a lot of people don't seem to comprehend is the psychology behind game design. The need for constant progress is a strong motivation. People want to feel they are getting more powerful.

What if I told you "why waste money designing new raids, just run the old ones naked and nerf yourself."

People want to feel like they are progressing AND being challenged. If you can't understand why deleting your own progress doesn't accomplish this necessary aspect of game psychology, I don't think there is anything I could say to explain it.

When new raids are designed the focus isn’t about players increasing their power but rather mechanics. If increasing player power were the case then ZOS wouldn’t have locked the population to CP810 for 3 years while they developed CP 2.0.

There are entire articles about game progression, game scaling, and dynamic game balancing. They all note that at some point there exists a wall.

Let’s look at Tertris. The developers today implement challenge by increasing the drop speed. But there is a limit to how fast one can have blocks dropped and physically respond. Very very very few can perform at the highest levels. Should a developer spend money developing new systems just to test them? What’s the reward in doing so? At a point, as a player you need to accept that the developer can’t address your needs anymore.

Perhaps reading “Flowers for Algernon” will help you better understand as well.

Kiralyn2000 · October 2021

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I don't blame anyone citing New World's massive success in response to the veteran overland naysayers calling us a vocal minority for the last five years. Clearly those who play it enjoy the difficulty of the open world.

But you're still making assumptions about why those 800k people are playing. Personally, none of the articles that I've seen about the game have been crowing about it's difficulty. These threads on this forum is the only place I've seen that being spotlighted as a notable game feature.

tl;dr - you can't take the 800k people playing, and assign your motivations & views to them. There's clearly a good chunk of pvp fans. There's a decent crowd of "Ooh, Big New MMO! Hype!" who are there regardless of what features the game has. Etc, etc, etc. Shoehorning the game's popularity into some Grand Statement about MMO difficulty is a bit of a reach.

WhyMustItBe · October 2021

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

When new raids are designed the focus isn’t about players increasing their power but rather mechanics.

What are you basing this on? Personal opinion? Part of the PROCESS is about learning mechanics obviously. You have to learn the raid to do the raid. But 90% of the REASON people do the raid is PROGRESSION. Specifically, new gear that either gives a straight power upgrade as in games like WoW, or one that gives straight power vs. raid bosses and some interesting side effects like ability cost reduction like in ESO. (Also to a lesser extend it is other types of rewards like titles, achievements, and cosmetics (skins) etc.).

Show me a set as good as False God's Devotion or Arms of Relequen in ESO then tell me people don't do trials specifically to get those sets. Again you are arguing from personal opinion as if it is fact. Watch the following video for a crash course on what motivates people in RPG's.

"Progression sustains the life of games and keeps them interesting."

Comparing what motivates people in an online RPG MMO to the single player game Tetris is totally inappropriate.

Also not sure how watching “Flowers for Algernon” (a story about a mouse experiment applied to a man with learning disabilities to increase his intelligence leading to a backfire regression to his previous state) applies to anything we are discussing, unless it was some weird way of insulting my intelligence for disagreeing with you?

Ippokrates · October 2021

BroughBreaux wrote: »

All they need to do is add mechanics to NPCs, not increase their damage or health. The reason the overland is boring is because they just stand there and let you kill them, take 5 seconds visually telegraphing any kind of attack that would do any significant amount of damage, and they don't try to avoid your AOEs or strategize a good way to attack in groups.

even if every overland enemy had the same mechanics and the only variation was in boss fights, it would be better than the mind numbing overland content we have currently

Exactly, you do not need artificially boost mob stats. Just give them some good mechanics that would allow them to surprise new player and then teach...

Like boars in Witcher 3

kargen27 · October 2021

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

LalMirchi wrote: »

I'm curious about the title for this thread."800k people don't seem to mind difficult overworld"

Where does the figure 800k come from?

It is probably a reference to the number of people playing New World on Steam, which I intentionally ignored since it would be a terrible metric to compare the new game shiny fad-factor of a title out for 1 week to a game which has been running 8 years with a stable, healthy, and generally expanding player base.

And four days in players that rushed to level characters in that new game are now complaining that overland is to easy and the grind to be able to craft their gear is a really bad word with "ed" on the end.

SilverBride · October 2021

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Watch the above video for a crash course on what motivates people in RPG's.

I don't need a video to teach me what motivates people in games. All I need to know is if I'm enjoying what I'm doing or not. If I am, I will continue doing it. If not, I won't.

I do understand the concept of progression, but progression can mean different things to different players. I find satisfaction in finishing a house I've been working on, or completing an achievement. Progression isn't always combat based.

What I don't understand is why players who have taken the time to prepare themselves for veteran dungeons and trials and arenas expect that the overland base story and quests should keep up with them and continue to be a challenge. That's like someone with a PHD in mathematics going back to elementary school and being disappointed that the multiplication tables are too easy for them now.

Amottica · October 2021

800k players the first week the game is out is not saying much considering it is a B2P game, no sub. A large number of those players will have moved on in a few months. Also, there is a large area of the game where NPCs are not challenging. One has to move inwards to get to more challenging content.

To boot, I doubt Zenimax has any need to look towards Amazon's creations as they have clearly been very successful business-wise with ESO. NW may take some of the more serious PvP players that remain but PvE is the cash cow in this game. Besides most hard-core PvP players left ESO long ago.

I forgot to mention that the NW NPCs have a very simple combat rotation making it easy to avoid their damage. Even with different NPCs having different attacks the timing is painfully similar.

Sheezabeast · October 2021

I miss when the wasps in Craglorn could kill you.....

I would love for hard overland zones to be a thing again, even if they were gated by a CP level. It would give people a goal to obtain, like the old Vet system grind. The CP grind is nothing compared to the Vet 14 grind. You actually felt accomplished when you hit Vet 14 and had motive to get your other characters there. Having the current CP system seems like it is less fulfilling, and more of a chore because you have to constantly assign your new CP.

trackdemon5512 · October 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Watch the above video for a crash course on what motivates people in RPG's.

I don't need a video to teach me what motivates people in games. All I need to know is if I'm enjoying what I'm doing or not. If I am, I will continue doing it. If not, I won't.

I do understand the concept of progression, but progression can mean different things to different players. I find satisfaction in finishing a house I've been working on, or completing an achievement. Progression isn't always combat based.

What I don't understand is why players who have taken the time to prepare themselves for veteran dungeons and trials and arenas expect that the overland base story and quests should keep up with them and continue to be a challenge. That's like someone with a PHD in mathematics going back to elementary school and being disappointed that the multiplication tables are too easy for them now.

@WhyMustItBe
And thus is the "Flowers for Algernon" reference. At what point is your skill at such a level that asking the world to present a challenge for just you a ridiculous proposition. If the world couldn't keep up, the protagonist of the story subsequently dumbed himself down.

I also believe that your confused about progression in terms of ESO. Learning mechanics for completing content is progressions. But there is a finite limit to power as implemented by the developer. Above a certain CP whatever you do to increase power is so incremental that its no longer progression. In fact there are termination points. And with the incoming critical damage caps there are more termination points.

New sets are nice but they're conditional upon circumstances and in no way indicative of progress.

You're asking for a challenge that the vast majority of the game nor the game developers care for. And despite that being pointed out you continue to insist that it should be done.

Nestor · October 2021

People ask for harder overland, but no comes up with a viable way to make it harder for some and leave it the same for others in the same game world. And, outside of Mechanics, which can't be instanced in overland, the only viable way is to turn NPCs into Damage Sponges. Yawn.

Of course, people could carry around a set of gimp gear to use in the overland. Its just like carrying different sets for Trials and Vet Dungeons. You know, gearing for content....

Of course that last statement always sets peoples heads on fire. I will now sit back and toast some marshmallows.

trackdemon5512 · October 2021

Nestor wrote: »

People ask for harder overland, but no comes up with a viable way to make it harder for some and leave it the same for others in the same game world. And, outside of Mechanics, which can't be instanced in overland, the only viable way is to turn NPCs into Damage Sponges. Yawn.

Of course, people could carry around a set of gimp gear to use in the overland. Its just like carrying different sets for Trials and Vet Dungeons. You know, gearing for content....

Of course that last statement always sets peoples heads on fire. I will now sit back and toast some marshmallows.

Or you know, wear your maxed gear for cheese. And then with the upcoming armory system instantly switch out your entire CP, skills, and gear for a dumbed down gimped load out for free.

What a solution being freely implemented lol. And completely negates the need for a damage slider.

tonyblack · October 2021

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

People ask for harder overland, but no comes up with a viable way to make it harder for some and leave it the same for others in the same game world. And, outside of Mechanics, which can't be instanced in overland, the only viable way is to turn NPCs into Damage Sponges. Yawn.

Of course, people could carry around a set of gimp gear to use in the overland. Its just like carrying different sets for Trials and Vet Dungeons. You know, gearing for content....

Of course that last statement always sets peoples heads on fire. I will now sit back and toast some marshmallows.

Or you know, wear your maxed gear for cheese. And then with the upcoming armory system instantly switch out your entire CP, skills, and gear for a dumbed down gimped load out for free.

What a solution being freely implemented lol. And completely negates the need for a damage slider.

How is gimping yourself thus nullifying all progress you made in this game a solution? And how it would make it suddenly fun experience? It’s exactly opposite why I and many other players play RPGs in the first place where researching your character and creating optimized build is defining part of experience. [snip] Not to mention no one in their right mind would use 1 of 2 free slots of new armory to make yourself useless in combat.

[Edited for Baiting]

Iccotak · October 2021

Folkb wrote: »

Just give overland mobs more moves and not as slow performing them. Make them as fast at doing their moves as a player and give them player moves.

You can't give them more hp. They were like that before and fighting became a chore.

True.

Look at Skyrim, enemy speed is close to player speed - so increasing/decreasing their damage for difficulty makes sense.

But in ESO enemies are very slow. Which is why increasing their hp/damage doesn’t solve the problem. Because outmaneuvering them is incredibly easy.

In order to make the gameplay engaging enemies at the very least would need to be much faster and they would have to stop spending so long overly telegraphing their moves.
Then we can talk about increasing their hp/damage.

Along with that the “Tougher NPC’s” need to have more abilities.

——————————————

It’s honestly amazing how many times it can be said that nerfing yourself doesn’t work - but everyone keeps suggesting it.

people in Destiny were told the same thing by other players and it was predictably pointed out to be an extremely flawed idea. Hence why Bungie is actually doing a difficultly setting for the story.

SilverBride wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Watch the above video for a crash course on what motivates people in RPG's.

I don't need a video to teach me what motivates people in games. All I need to know is if I'm enjoying what I'm doing or not. If I am, I will continue doing it. If not, I won't.

I do understand the concept of progression, but progression can mean different things to different players. I find satisfaction in finishing a house I've been working on, or completing an achievement. Progression isn't always combat based.

What I don't understand is why players who have taken the time to prepare themselves for veteran dungeons and trials and arenas expect that the overland base story and quests should keep up with them and continue to be a challenge. That's like someone with a PHD in mathematics going back to elementary school and being disappointed that the multiplication tables are too easy for them now.

And yet the developers put Dungeons as part of the year long story.
The endgame group content, that has a difficulty setting, is part of the story now.

You say the story is supposedly only for casual players, but the inclusion of dungeons in that year long story disproves that assertion.

And what we have now is a year long story that has a wildly inconsistent gameplay experience - where 2/4 of the year are very easy and the other 2/4 can be quite challenging.
This is one of the reasons why the current set up is considered poorly implemented.

Where we now have a boss that is a minion to the main bad guy - but gameplay wise is way harder than the main bad guy. How does that make any sense?

Main Story Bosses (and even mini-bosses) should get something like dungeon treatment. With a normal and veteran difficulty setting. Make the powerful world ending bosses actually a threat which has engaging gameplay for those that want it.

And again I’m going to point out destiny because this is a change they have decided to make after years of this very complaint we have today.
And if those developers are actually doing something about it - even they did something about it when they have a healthy player base - they created an option so then the story appealed to more of their player base than just the casual playstyle.

then I think it is worth considering that on some level Rich Lambert is wrong and that they need to change their approach.

Roztlin45 · October 2021

Overall change no thanks. However it would be nice to see areas overland with swarms of spiders (for example)that keep coming and scale with number of players in area. Not a world.boss but enough to over power you. Think of spell scar in crag to a factor of 5. That way overland can be relaxing or hard if you choose to do something more difficult.

SilverBride · October 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What I don't understand is why players who have taken the time to prepare themselves for veteran dungeons and trials and arenas expect that the overland base story and quests should keep up with them and continue to be a challenge. That's like someone with a PHD in mathematics going back to elementary school and being disappointed that the multiplication tables are too easy for them now.

And yet the developers put Dungeons as part of the year long story.
The endgame group content, that has a difficulty setting, is part of the story now...

...You say the story is supposedly only for casual players, but the inclusion of dungeons in that year long story disproves that assertion.

Dungeon difficulty has nothing to do with overland and the base game, whether the story is continued in a dungeon or not. They are two different experiences with very different mechanics. One does not determine what is done in the other.

To clarify, I never once said overland is just for casual players. I have said many times that overland is the base game and story, and needs to be a difficulty that all players can succeed at. It is not intended to be veteran end game content.

Iccotak wrote: »

...then I think it is worth considering that on some level Rich Lambert is wrong and that they need to change their approach.

I believe that Rich Lambert has a good grasp of what is good for the game based on how people are playing and what features are being utilized.

Nanfoodle · October 2021

New World has everyone at the same place. New to the world and no progression on their character. I can say ESO when starting out has some real challenges. It's fun to play just Ike New World. In a year or so, that game will be the same as ESO. Top end players will find the world easy. How do you scale the open world for people with 1500cp and someone with 160cp and mak the progression seem meaningful? I'm sure Zeni would love to know that answer.

trackdemon5512 · October 2021

tonyblack wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

People ask for harder overland, but no comes up with a viable way to make it harder for some and leave it the same for others in the same game world. And, outside of Mechanics, which can't be instanced in overland, the only viable way is to turn NPCs into Damage Sponges. Yawn.

Of course, people could carry around a set of gimp gear to use in the overland. Its just like carrying different sets for Trials and Vet Dungeons. You know, gearing for content....

Of course that last statement always sets peoples heads on fire. I will now sit back and toast some marshmallows.

Or you know, wear your maxed gear for cheese. And then with the upcoming armory system instantly switch out your entire CP, skills, and gear for a dumbed down gimped load out for free.

What a solution being freely implemented lol. And completely negates the need for a damage slider.

How is gimping yourself thus nullifying all progress you made in this game a solution? And how it would make it suddenly fun experience? It’s exactly opposite why I and many other players play RPGs in the first place where researching your character and creating optimized build is defining part of experience. [snip] Not to mention no one in their right mind would use 1 of 2 free slots of new armory to make yourself useless in combat.

[Edited for Baiting]

Adding a difficulty slider is handicapping yourself. They can’t make the entire world more difficult for everyone as that’s unfair to those rising up the ladder. The developers can’t make enemies that scale in damage output of every single member of a PVE instance. Do you understand how many server checks that would require?

So handicapping aka gimping players is the only way to go via either gear, attributes, food, etc. And gear sets with their bonuses and procs make things easier for players. Playing without set bonuses is the most natural state.

Anyone arguing that progression is having gold gear and full five piece sets is wrong. Skill progression is learning how to play and react to mechanics. Improving gear/acquiring it doesn’t require skill progression as everything can be farmed, crafted, improved, and augmented through grinding or gold. The advantages of perfected vs imperfect trial sets offer little if any advantage and those can be easily acquired without actual skill.

You HAVE to handicap yourself for a harder experience. There is no way around that as the game can’t be made harder without ruining the experience for everyone else. Doing so is counterintuitive to being inclusive.

And if the game already has options for doing so and players refuse to handicap themselves for a challenge then why should the developers make a system that even the hardcore aren’t likely to use let along the general populace?