800k people don't seem to mind difficult overworld

Hallothiel

Overland is fine as it is. I personally do not want to be fighting trash mobs for longer than I have to at present (ie not long at all). Overland does not need to be hard.

Quest bosses - different thing. I think a toggle for a harder boss fight would be the best solution. Then all those who want things harder can feel they have truly bested the game. Oh but the rewards are the same. As its the challenge, apparently, is it not?

*And can people stop wibbling on about bloody New World. It means nothing to 2/3rds of the player base.

temerley

Hallothiel wrote: »

*And can people stop wibbling on about bloody New World. It means nothing to 2/3rds of the player base.

It starts with the pvpers, if zos doesn't fix the issues of the game then pvers (in case there's gonna be new pve content) and housing (housing in nw looks good) will go next.

trackdemon5512

According to ZOS during their most recent stream on Friday 19 million people seem to be just fine with gameplay as it is now.

Kiralyn2000

We'll see what people think about New World's 'overworld', when the majority of their players are at cap. It's hard to compare a game with fully understood game mechanics/meta/long-time players, to a new game with lots of newbies still finding their way.


(as I've mentioned, by the time I'd played a couple expansions of WoW, endgame players were not 'challenged' at all when a new expansion came out & increased the level cap. Their raid gear, group content skill, and meta builds, made the new overland/questing content trivial. Established games with established populations of endgame raiders, can't remotely challenge them with the quest content that has to be available to someone just leveling through on a new account.)

TequilaFire

Changed my mind. lol

oldbobdude

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Overland fighting teaches nothing about group content mechanics, so you'll have someone taking 10 minutes to light attack spam /heavy attack a world boss to death thinking they're great and that translates fine into group (harder) content. There needs to be something to allow players to prepare for more difficult content and questing isn't it.

I don’t think overland is meant to teach about group content. Normal dungeons do that. Overland is for folks enjoying the story. Solo in most cases.

Callosum

I have always supported optional harder overland content but think the big problem is that the hard content that already exist just lacks initiative. Wanna farm gold? Go do writs. Want some transmutes? Do normal dungoens on all your chars... Want MYTHIC ITEMS? go scrying... For endgame players this takes time away from the fun content.

Increase the reward for rnd vet dungoens. Let players choose between keys, transmutes or gold after the completion of vet pledges. Make tel var stones a currency that be transformed to gold, AP or transmutes. Improve the rewards for world bosses, overland events, dragons etc... Make 4 man group modes for puplic dungens with vet difficulty and let the bosses drop small amount of transmutes and a small change to drop a mythic item from the zone (very small change ofc)

This is just suggestions. Hope you get the idea.

coop500

Nope

I have plenty of fun in overland, it's good for weak characters and relaxing gameplay when I don't wanna be stressed

Or for example, when someone has an injury and just still want to play while they heal.

Hallothiel

temerley wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

*And can people stop wibbling on about bloody New World. It means nothing to 2/3rds of the player base.

It starts with the pvpers, if zos doesn't fix the issues of the game then pvers (in case there's gonna be new pve content) and housing (housing in nw looks good) will go next.

Missed my point entirely.

In case it had escaped your notice, New World is PC only - ESO has console players that make up 2/3rds of the player base, and as such, a new PC game is irrelevant to them.

Iccotak

The Main Story is a major let down every time because it hyped up a Big Bad who is in all actuality extremely easy and boring to beat.

Even if you nerf yourself it’s just a longer fight with bare minimum mechanics designed for beginners.

I cannot emphasize enough how much this design choice completely ruins the main story of installments and the overall year long story.

Main Story bosses (and mini-bosses) NEED difficulty options.

Story instances should have a Solo/Group & Difficulty setting

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Heck, Delves need difficulty options. I did a delve that was connected to 2 side quests which hyped up a dangerous argonian necromancer only for him to be a total punk.

—————————————

For a game that focuses so much on combat, the only engaging PvE combat is relegated to unrelated endgame group content.

Solo play is often incredibly boring when it comes to combat gameplay and that often undermines the story.

People want engaging gameplay with their story and exploration.

Iccotak

BlueRaven wrote: »

We will soon have the armory system. Make an overland questing build without cp and poor gear. There you go, an optional harder overland.

Mobs will hit harder and appear to have more hp.

Doesn’t fix the problem- many of us have tried this solution and as we’ve pointed out; they still use basic bare minimum mechanics which they overly telegraph.

Even if you have green gear , with a mix match of random stuff, and no CP - if you know the basic gameplay it is a cakewalk.

Self Nerfing is not, nor will it ever be an effective solution.

TheImperfect

Eso is perfect as it is, if they wanted to add it as optional then fine but it's great as it is.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

temerley wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

*And can people stop wibbling on about bloody New World. It means nothing to 2/3rds of the player base.

It starts with the pvpers, if zos doesn't fix the issues of the game then pvers (in case there's gonna be new pve content) and housing (housing in nw looks good) will go next.

Not really. I like some pvp and housing is one of my favourite things to do in ESO, and I've no interest right now to play New World. Wildstar had amazing housing and a bunch of other things and we know what happened to that.

I'm playing ESO because I like it, and I like Elder Scrolls. Not the newest shiny thing.

Tandor

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Akali wrote: »

I agree with people saying overland is just fine, that being said, an option for difficulty offering better loot/rewards would be outstanding.

Nothing wrong with offering people some choice!

So what people are wanting is better loot, not more challenging content? Your argument is parroted here a lot. It almost always comes down to the rewards. Surely if the content was enjoyable, the rewards are secondary. but that never seems to be the case. People almost always start by saying they want more difficult content and come the end of their argument, focus solely on the rewards.

So it's not too difficult to assume it's not really about the difficulty, people just want better rewards.

That's the point I've been making for a while, it's always "I just want more of a challenge" closely followed by "Well obviously I wouldn't do it if there wasn't a better reward".

SilverBride

The 800k people who don't seem to mind difficult overland are right where they need to be... in a game that provides that. They aren't spending time in a game that doesn't then requesting it be changed to their play style.

Rich Lambert recently answered the request for veteran quests and delves, and his stand on this is very clear.

"Can we get a vet mode for delves and quests? Uh, so we had that ... at launch. It was called Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. Nobody did it and everybody hated it, so we took it out. We put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials." - Rich Lambert

https://clips.twitch.tv/BovineLovelyGrassTakeNRG-IGkmH8s1XHeD9P2u

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Tandor wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Akali wrote: »

I agree with people saying overland is just fine, that being said, an option for difficulty offering better loot/rewards would be outstanding.

Nothing wrong with offering people some choice!

So what people are wanting is better loot, not more challenging content? Your argument is parroted here a lot. It almost always comes down to the rewards. Surely if the content was enjoyable, the rewards are secondary. but that never seems to be the case. People almost always start by saying they want more difficult content and come the end of their argument, focus solely on the rewards.

So it's not too difficult to assume it's not really about the difficulty, people just want better rewards.

That's the point I've been making for a while, it's always "I just want more of a challenge" closely followed by "Well obviously I wouldn't do it if there wasn't a better reward".

Reward has nothing to do with it. If you increase the amount of loot, all that happens is supply increases and the value drops, so now you fill your bag with different valueless loot, and the previous valueless loot is even more devalued than now.. Loot is not going to make dull gameplay exciting, and more difficult content does not need more loot (after all the whole point being made here is that the content is entirely trivial)

Blinx

No, Thanks!

wolfie1.0.

temerley wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

*And can people stop wibbling on about bloody New World. It means nothing to 2/3rds of the player base.

It starts with the pvpers, if zos doesn't fix the issues of the game then pvers (in case there's gonna be new pve content) and housing (housing in nw looks good) will go next.

Housing in NW is limited just as much as eso if not worse. NW is also not so great in overland content either.

etchedpixels

Vhozek wrote: »

I think we should sit back and take a second look at this game's overworld to make it more interesting and exciting. Bumping up the mob difficulty seems to be a good start. I really doubt many people would complain. The only issue is that it can't just be done as a lone update but rather paired up with a sort of re-launch or massive event advertising the game. What do you think? What else could be implemented to make leveling exciting and not just a delay to end-game content? Because that's basically what it is, it's just a delay not even a challenging obstacle.

So go full Conan the Barbarian mode, underpants and a big sword, no magic. It's exactly the same as giving the mobs more health and making them hit harder, plus you've got more chance of impressing Urgarlag

Vevvev

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

All they need to do is add mechanics to NPCs, not increase their damage or health. The reason the overland is boring is because they just stand there and let you kill them, take 5 seconds visually telegraphing any kind of attack that would do any significant amount of damage, and they don't try to avoid your AOEs or strategize a good way to attack in groups.

even if every overland enemy had the same mechanics and the only variation was in boss fights, it would be better than the mind numbing overland content we have currently

This is the answer in my opinion.

Indeed, I remember when ZOS added new enemy types in Elsweyr and I was surprised for the first time in years playing ESO's overland. They can stay easy but if they had more cool attacks, had a sort of brain that'd move out of stupid, and didn't telegraph things so heavily it'd be a lot more fun!

vingarmo

SilverBride wrote: »

Rich Lambert's answer to request for veteran quests and delves:

"Can we get a vet mode for delves and quests? Uh, so we had that ... at launch. It was called Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. Nobody did it and everybody hated it, so we took it out. We put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials." - Rich Lambert

https://clips.twitch.tv/BovineLovelyGrassTakeNRG-IGkmH8s1XHeD9P2u

While I won’t argue with creative director if that statement based on actual data and not just hasty reply to acknowledge the question and move on but from all reviews and feedback I read back at launch quest difficulty was not the thing most players complained about. Game was completely different back than: there was little content, builds, character customization, few good content creators and whole player base was completely different with pvp being major focus of the game and true end game. Faction locked zones and slow leveling was far bigger concerns and even they didn’t contribute much to rocky launch compared to forced subscription, bad performance and lack of direction. Questing was and still is the activity that focuses on single group while providing nothing to the rest. It has bad rewards, boring gameplay and poor replay value. And this problem brought far to often to consider it insignificant.

AlexanderDeLarge

Hamish999 wrote: »

How about no.

Why not? What do you lose by players fed up with doing questlines where some delve boss is built up to be some super intimidating foe... Only to be one shot by anyone CP300+ (majority of the playerbase I'd imagine) getting the option of a veteran overland?

SilverBride

vingarmo wrote: »

While I won’t argue with creative director if that statement based on actual data and not just hasty reply to acknowledge the question and move on but from all reviews and feedback I read back at launch quest difficulty was not the thing most players complained about.

I played beta and at launch. The difficulty of the veteran overland zones and then Craglorn were my biggest complaints and the reason I, and several of my friends, quit.

Not being able to play with characters of other factions created its own problems, i.e. less players to group with for this difficult content. But dying repeatedly while trying to enjoy the story quests and forced grouping were the deal breakers.

I am sure that Rich Lambert has the actual data. They can see what content is being utilized, and how the game has flourished since One Tamriel and the removal of the veteran overland zones. His answer is very clear.

AlexanderDeLarge

seldomseenkd wrote: »

"88.2% of statistics are made up on the spot." -- Vic Reeves.

I'll substantiate it for you then. New World has an incredibly challenging open world and it's refreshing to say the least after playing The Elder Scrolls Online for years where the hardest thing about most of these quest chains is walking to the objective.
https://steamcharts.com/app/1063730#All

CompM4s

New players need easy content.

Red_Feather

There is a way of making old, and new chapter overland more challenging for players who have been playing so long everything is super easy and boring. It doesn't require changing existing, or future, overland content at all. It's found in Division's Directives System. For fun I tried thinking of directives for ESO and found just going into the champion systems perks and using them as ideas for curses worked really well and it was pretty fun to think about.

Slimebrow

Would have been nice if overland mobs had more complex behaviors in battle and outside of it like maybe day and night cycles having an effect on mobs like were wolves would go to sleep in a near by cave or something or would hunt other wild life near by.

Would be nice but like with any other post this too is going to the voids.

AlexanderDeLarge

CompM4s wrote: »

New players need easy content.

A veteran overland toggle takes away from the new player experience as much as veteran dungeons do. Meaning it doesn't.

SilverBride

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

New World has an incredibly challenging open world and it's refreshing to say the least after playing The Elder Scrolls Online for years where the hardest thing about most of these quest chains is walking to the objective.

The most logical course of action is very simple. Players who enjoy difficult and challenging overland should play games like New World. Those who enjoy a more relaxing overland story experience should play games like ESO. It is not logical to expect either type game to completely change their base game to adapt to individual players.

AlexanderDeLarge

SilverBride wrote: »

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

New World has an incredibly challenging open world and it's refreshing to say the least after playing The Elder Scrolls Online for years where the hardest thing about most of these quest chains is walking to the objective.

The most logical course of action is very simple. Players who enjoy difficult and challenging overland should play games like New World. Those who enjoy a more relaxing overland story experience should play games like ESO.

[snip]

I've always advocated for choice in content difficulty. You're advocating to keep choice out of the game even though this has been the #1 request on the forums for years, with damn good reason. People are sick of reading it on the forums? Well that means it's been a persistent request and imagine how people sick of not having a modicum of difficulty in 99% of the game feel. One shotting enemies Dynasty Warriors style isn't fun, especially when the quest dialog is building ____ the merciless up to be super intimidating and then you spend 45 minutes on a quest chain leading up to him, left click once and he's dead.

SilverBride wrote: »

It is not logical to expect either type game to completely change their base game to adapt to individual players.

So let me get this straight, it's okay for them to significantly overhaul and "streamline" the game to make it easier and more accessible but I can't ask for an optional mode to add the difficulty back in? [snip]

[edited for flaming]