Does anyone actually like CP2.0

ResidentContrarian · May 2021

I think it missed the mark, however,

It's good for generating broken builds that will result in nerfs for every player overall after the next patch.

Gaze of Sithis in its nerfed form + the CP star system will still be a problem for PvP and PvE balance and I see a heavy nerf coming down the line, if not at patch time, and they won't be popular with anyone but the one making the nerf decisions.

I am already disappointed in advance for when it happens the patch after next ...

cyberjanet · May 2021

Yes, I like it a lot. It's easier to understand than the last system, it allows for a lot of flexibility, and my DPS has gone up quite considerably.

fiender66 · May 2021

I'm not fond of using figures (absolute or %) in game, then what I did was a series of empirical tests for PVE (soloing delves, public dungeons, WB's and group dungeons) changing the settings of my CPs, especially in the blue tree, together with build adjustments.

My toon was almost always a bret magplar, nothing fancy, like my actual main in live (100+ on PC EU and 820+ on PC NA).

The opinion I formed is that whatever you do with your CP 2.0 pales (to put it mildly) as an effect with respect to build choices, especially whether to lean upon crit or damage. Needless to say, the presence of legendary levels takes the lion share, provided your build is correctly chosen for your aims.

Obviously, again, this has become even more evident after the halving in the last patch.

Personally, I've given away any points' grinding, while gold farming holds all its value. What I say here may not apply to PVP or to trials, both activities that I do not practice in live.

validifyedneb18_ESO · May 2021

cyberjanet wrote: »

Yes, I like it a lot. It's easier to understand than the last system, it allows for a lot of flexibility, and my DPS has gone up quite considerably.

I'm supprised you say that. To me the new system is very much identical to the old system but with a lot more of it and added complexity.

I guess jump-points are no longer a thing (or are better communicated through the UI), but thats the only real simplification I can think of.

Calypso589 · May 2021

This system is far and away better than the old.

It's not perfect and there's improvements to be made.

But those calling it a "failure" are smoking the good stuff.

Who in their right mind would want to go back to having to constantly readjust their blue and red CP for the content they were doing? lol

My personal biggest issue with the new system?

If ZoS could put labels on the stars as per the previous UI, that'd be grrrrreeeeaaaaat.

Grimlok_S · May 2021

Calypso589 wrote: »

This system is far and away better than the old.

It's not perfect and there's improvements to be made.

But those calling it a "failure" are smoking the good stuff.

Who in their right mind would want to go back to having to constantly readjust their blue and red CP for the content they were doing? lol

My personal biggest issue with the new system?

If ZoS could put labels on the stars as per the previous UI, that'd be grrrrreeeeaaaaat.

Idk man I find myself readjusting my cp a whole lot more now than I ever did before.

DerAlleinTiger · May 2021

I overall like it. My favorite part is the entirety of the green tree. My least favorite part is the slottables part of the green tree. Wish they either made it all passives or at least gave us 2 more slots for the green tree. That'd be just enough to get more or less everything I want out of it at any given moment.

95% of the slottable bonuses are only for non-combat and the ones that do effect combat frankly aren't that good or worth it. So nothing actually stops me from switching, or forces me to specialize. It's just the annoyance of stopping and switching them. Only ones I'd want to be slottable are the speed ones, purely because I don't always want to be ultra speedy (especially since it affects walk speed too) so nust being able to toggle those on and off at whim is nice.

As far as the other trees go, I don't have a problem with them in general. It's more just the balance of them. They should get a buff, I think, but who actually expects that? ZOS's favorite word is "nerf," followed only by "overtune."

Sirona_Starr · May 2021

Finedaible wrote: »

What I like: I used to like 2.0 since it is slightly more intuitive to use and you don't need to worry about rounded values and wasted points like in the old system. There are a few nice perks added in the new system.

What I dislike: What was fun and exciting about the new 2.0 system is getting reduced to negligible values this upcoming patch and old stars from previous system are returning so what was the point? I can understand them nerfing combat related passives to a degree, but why nerf Hasty and Hero's Vigor when they don't affect combat that much? It feels like they pride themselves on having movement restricted as much as possible.

The biggest controversies I see with cp 2.0 is the restriction on slotted passives. I understand this is in place to limit the overall power level of players, but then why make so many non-combat passives slotted? What is the incentive to continue to accrue CP points if we will never be allowed to use more than 4 slotted perks? What was even the point of raising the CP cap if it will take more than what we had to regain what we lost? Feels like artificial inflation. There are just too many redundancies and not enough vertical progression to justify/incentivize going above the "progression cap" for a given tree.

I feel the most insulting thing about the 7.0.0 patch notes is they posed the explanation for the cp 2.0 nerfs as something that feedback asked for. I don't know who they are collecting feedback from, but it is definitely not from the general player community or the Class Reps as far as I can tell (are class reps even a thing still? Haven't heard anything about them in ages).

I am completely with you on how horrid CP 2.0 is. At least under the old system, I could use 810 cp that were constantly, 100% applied.

ORANGE TREE – manual reslot – 30 second cooldown – best tree for passives. Grand total of 1858 cp
958 in passives (which depending on your toon are not all relevant), 900 into slottables, – seriously, most players will slot the 4 most useful for overall circumstances and the rest are worthless. So, 200 out of 900 used.

BLUE TREE: Absolute WORST tree. Like the orange tree, majority of players will pick 4 of most useful in most circumstances, to slot, that’s it. Also has offerings that are irrelevant to your choice of magic or stamina class, or if you’re not a healer. Which further reduces usefulness. Grand Total of cp – 1990. 490 passive 1500 slottable – 200 actually slotted, as per above.

Now: GREEN TREE (at least there is an addon to auto-slot - notification of cooldown time) - for PC/Mac anyway.
Grand total of 1840 champion points in this tree.
Aside from newer players who have not accomplished much in the game so far:
Presume one character who is a master crafter and master angler. That character has also maxed skill points for crafting, thieves guild, dark brotherhood, mount speed, has the pvp speed skill/passive. This character is mainly pve..
Don’t need decreased wayshrine use – just port to a guild member or friend
So, out of 1840 champion points, only 275 are really useful on a consistent basis. Another 150 somewhat useful. Total of 425 champion points really “matter.”
If you keep playing the game, sooner or later the same will apply to you. Roughly 1/3 (maximum) actually benefit you.

My point being, massive amounts of cp are absolutely useless/wasted in this new system, so a BIG increase in slots is desperately needed. Otherwise, what's the point? "Choices have consequences." Uh, what choices, really? Consequences - well, we increased cp. but most of the increase is useless after a certain point.

I hate this new system so much....... I don't even feel the need to apply earned/gained cp to stars anymore, because, why?

Massive fail. The end.

ThorianB · May 2021

CP2.0 HAD potential. ZOS dropped the ball and it was a glass ball filled with nitroglycerin.

Calypso589 · May 2021

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

This system is far and away better than the old.

It's not perfect and there's improvements to be made.

But those calling it a "failure" are smoking the good stuff.

Who in their right mind would want to go back to having to constantly readjust their blue and red CP for the content they were doing? lol

My personal biggest issue with the new system?

If ZoS could put labels on the stars as per the previous UI, that'd be grrrrreeeeaaaaat.

Idk man I find myself readjusting my cp a whole lot more now than I ever did before.

The only thing that needs readjusted are the green slottables to befit what exactly you may be doing.

But i've not changed blue or red for tanking, DPS or Heals once since the patch dropped.

Just for some background: A tank for each class, warden and necro healer, 3 DPS, playing for a little over 3 years.

There miiiiiiight be some blue or red defensive slottables that can be changed depending on specific content but I've not felt the need to micromanage on that level at all.

The previous system had you changing your green and red CP every single time you entered a different trial because you couldn't effectively mitigate various damage types at the same time. You had to pull points from one and dump into another.

Now all of that has been rolled into the subsection of the Warfare tree and I don't have to adjust anything anymore.

It's awesome.

Like I said, the system isn't perfect and there's room for improvement (hence the reason they designed the system to be as modular as it is, so they can add or take away as needed).

But I repeat, anyone calling it a failure or more complex than 1.0 is smoking the good stuff and I want them to call me so I can have some. lol

Ishtarknows · May 2021

I quite liked cp 2.0, except the green tree. The green tree is just a micromanagement nightmare. Especially on console, without any addons to simplify.

Cp 2.1 on the other hand, seems like a total waste of champion points. Reducing buffs or damage reductions to eg 2% or 4% seems totally pointless.

Sirona_Starr · May 2021

Calypso589 wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

This system is far and away better than the old.

It's not perfect and there's improvements to be made.

But those calling it a "failure" are smoking the good stuff.

Who in their right mind would want to go back to having to constantly readjust their blue and red CP for the content they were doing? lol

My personal biggest issue with the new system?

If ZoS could put labels on the stars as per the previous UI, that'd be grrrrreeeeaaaaat.

Idk man I find myself readjusting my cp a whole lot more now than I ever did before.

The only thing that needs readjusted are the green slottables to befit what exactly you may be doing.

But i've not changed blue or red for tanking, DPS or Heals once since the patch dropped.

Just for some background: A tank for each class, warden and necro healer, 3 DPS, playing for a little over 3 years.

There miiiiiiight be some blue or red defensive slottables that can be changed depending on specific content but I've not felt the need to micromanage on that level at all.

The previous system had you changing your green and red CP every single time you entered a different trial because you couldn't effectively mitigate various damage types at the same time. You had to pull points from one and dump into another.

Now all of that has been rolled into the subsection of the Warfare tree and I don't have to adjust anything anymore.

It's awesome.

Like I said, the system isn't perfect and there's room for improvement (hence the reason they designed the system to be as modular as it is, so they can add or take away as needed).

But I repeat, anyone calling it a failure or more complex than 1.0 is smoking the good stuff and I want them to call me so I can have some. lol

I actually only switched cp under the old system if I decided to venture into pvp for an event. Otherwise, 100% of 810 were active all the time. Now, I don't switch either, but the bulk of cp points are not used ever. That's my point re the fail.

Toxic_Hemlock · May 2021

The green tree should be 80% passives IMO.

I earned all those champion points why must I choose to micro manage my "earned" skills?

BalticBlues · May 2021

Ishtarknows wrote: »

I quite liked cp 2.0, except the green tree. The green tree is just a micromanagement nightmare. Especially on console, without any addons to simplify.

Cp 2.1 on the other hand, seems like a total waste of champion points. Reducing buffs or damage reductions to eg 2% or 4% seems totally pointless.

Yes, good points on console.
This is what us console peasants would like for CP2.1 instead of what is planned:

Change a lot of active green stars into passive stars to remove the tedious micromangement.
Do not nerf the passive CPs by a hefty 50% which people just GRINDED FOR WEEKS. We need them in vetVateshran for the nightmare endboss which seems tailor-made for pc players with a comfortable mouse and helping addons.
We need to zoom out more on consoles, especially for the right side of the green tree with stars difficult to target.

stefj68 · May 2021

still feel grinding 1/3 of my cp for crafting a wasted
i still don't like it

Ishtarknows · May 2021

Calypso589 wrote: »

This system is far and away better than the old.

It's not perfect and there's improvements to be made.

But those calling it a "failure" are smoking the good stuff.

Who in their right mind would want to go back to having to constantly readjust their blue and red CP for the content they were doing? lol

My personal biggest issue with the new system?

If ZoS could put labels on the stars as per the previous UI, that'd be grrrrreeeeaaaaat.

The reason you readjusted your red tree in different trials was because different bosses do different types of damage and so you spec accordingly, because in CP 1.0 it mattered. The amount of mitigation was worth something. That's hardly the case any more. Less switching doesn't mean your stats are better now, it's more the opposite.

For instance, a pretty standard trial set up of red tree cp 1.0 would give you 20% direct damage reduction, 4500 spell resistance, 13% less damage from frost, flame and shock, and 21% less damage from damage over time

Compare this to the max damage mitigation in cp 2.0: Preparation max 8% from general attacks, Elemental Aegis reduce elemental damage by 4%, Hardy reduce martial attacks by 4%.

In cp 1.0 you could spread your cp evenly over the most used nodes so you never needed to change them and still have better mitigation than we have now.

Calypso589 · May 2021

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

This system is far and away better than the old.

It's not perfect and there's improvements to be made.

But those calling it a "failure" are smoking the good stuff.

Who in their right mind would want to go back to having to constantly readjust their blue and red CP for the content they were doing? lol

My personal biggest issue with the new system?

If ZoS could put labels on the stars as per the previous UI, that'd be grrrrreeeeaaaaat.

The reason you readjusted your red tree in different trials was because different bosses do different types of damage and so you spec accordingly, because in CP 1.0 it mattered. The amount of mitigation was worth something. That's hardly the case any more. Less switching doesn't mean your stats are better now, it's more the opposite.

For instance, a pretty standard trial set up of red tree cp 1.0 would give you 20% direct damage reduction, 4500 spell resistance, 13% less damage from frost, flame and shock, and 21% less damage from damage over time

Compare this to the max damage mitigation in cp 2.0: Preparation max 8% from general attacks, Elemental Aegis reduce elemental damage by 4%, Hardy reduce martial attacks by 4%.

In cp 1.0 you could spread your cp evenly over the most used nodes so you never needed to change them and still have better mitigation than we have now.

You can't just compare the two systems in a vacuum without acknowledging everything else that was changed when CP 2.0 was released. Especially when it comes to mitigation. There's other changes that occurred alongside 2.0 that accounted for what was altered or removed. a

Armor weight bonuses combined with a 10% increase to base stats accounts for a lot of what was taken away or adjusted.

Like, as a tank, I'm FAR AND AWAY tankier then i ever was before when you account for not only the changes to CP, but those higher base stats and armor weight changes.

When you take all of those things into account (which you should) I'm flat out better.

Now it's true that heals and DPS under 1k CP had some power or mitigation taken away but once you cross that 1kCP threshold you're basically good to go to perform in most content and can only keep getting better.

Anyone saying otherwise is wrong. I've cleared too many vets with players who were all over that 900-1600 area. lol At those CP levels your mitigation DOES become better than it was, most notably boosted by those increased base stats. Going from 18k max health on a healer or DPS to 22k or something is automatically better than a lot of the mitigation options from CP 1.0.

It was NOT fun constantly having to swap CP around all the time. It was a hassle and i'm glad it's gone. All that moving around did nothing but create a false impression of complexity whilst burdening my coin purse.

Grimlok_S · May 2021

Calypso589 wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

This system is far and away better than the old.

It's not perfect and there's improvements to be made.

But those calling it a "failure" are smoking the good stuff.

Who in their right mind would want to go back to having to constantly readjust their blue and red CP for the content they were doing? lol

My personal biggest issue with the new system?

If ZoS could put labels on the stars as per the previous UI, that'd be grrrrreeeeaaaaat.

Idk man I find myself readjusting my cp a whole lot more now than I ever did before.

The only thing that needs readjusted are the green slottables to befit what exactly you may be doing.

But i've not changed blue or red for tanking, DPS or Heals once since the patch dropped.

Just for some background: A tank for each class, warden and necro healer, 3 DPS, playing for a little over 3 years.

There miiiiiiight be some blue or red defensive slottables that can be changed depending on specific content but I've not felt the need to micromanage on that level at all.

The previous system had you changing your green and red CP every single time you entered a different trial because you couldn't effectively mitigate various damage types at the same time. You had to pull points from one and dump into another.

Now all of that has been rolled into the subsection of the Warfare tree and I don't have to adjust anything anymore.

It's awesome.

Like I said, the system isn't perfect and there's room for improvement (hence the reason they designed the system to be as modular as it is, so they can add or take away as needed).

But I repeat, anyone calling it a failure or more complex than 1.0 is smoking the good stuff and I want them to call me so I can have some. lol

For context, I PvE, PvP, craft and collect on one toon.

I have 3-4 different CP setups for all 3 constellations depending what I'm doing.

Cyrodiil, IC, changing green to decon in between laps of IC, PvE, you get the idea.

HowlKimchi · May 2021

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

As a die hard theorycrafter that really wanted to come back to the game, this system honestly feels like its pushing me away. It doesnt want me to play unless I spend hours of my life getting my head around the numbers with a spreadsheet, not to find some new interesting build, but just to find the optimal setups for builds that ive already done the work making.

I'm the exact opposite. As a die hard theorycrafter I love how enabling the new CP is to hybrid builds and the likes. Much more viable builds to theorycraft. I pvp though so I dont need to minmax damage.

mikemacon · May 2021

Yes.

tomofhyrule · May 2021

CP 2.0 is much easier to understand than the 1.0 system. I had to spend ages planning the old way, but this one is a lot easier once I figured it out.

It's not perfect - I liked the 'diminishing returns' effect from 1.0 that allowed you to get power early but not become a beast at too high levels. The even spacing of 2.0 seems like one of the main things that led to them halving passives... and thus nerfing a lot of people. I wonder if a system where each break point cost 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 instead of 10, 10, 10, 10, 10 would have been better, since then you'd have to invest to get to a certain place and couldn't just be a jack-of-all-trades immediately.

I also don't mind the slottability. I think it could be better: some of the choices are odd as passive vs. slottable, and I think it's a missed opportunity to give us back the stuff that's getting nerfed as passives as slottables instead (having a system like +max resource as passive and as slottable is a fun setup). I wouldn't even mind if they gave us a handful more slots and then made everything slottable so we could fine-tune our characters the way we want. Sure, many people see 'fine tune your character at any time!' and hear 'micromanage to min-max!' but I'm not one of those people. I'd love a system where several high CP players have even more build diversity rather than everyone taking the same CPs since some online guide told them to.

I do like the visual indicator of jump points, since we didn't have that with CP 1.0 and only even knew about it from online guides. Really, why report something like 13.6% when it's only ever counted as 13%?

But one of my biggest problems is cosmetic - It's "The Thief," "The Mage," and "The Warrior." I don't care what they're calling their trees, don't change the lore for that. I did like the lore connection we had with the constellations, and I'm not a fan of having lost that.

eelis_lancet · May 2021

The concept of new CP system - is exellent. It is very easy to understanding and now we have got variability for making a build in depending the type of content, role and features of fighting. I think you need to learn more about the ESO.

tim99 · May 2021

I think the "green tree" has potential. 🌲
But I also think that garbage bag over there has potential. 💩

ManDraKE · May 2021

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

As a die hard theorycrafter that really wanted to come back to the game, this system honestly feels like its pushing me away. It doesnt want me to play unless I spend hours of my life getting my head around the numbers with a spreadsheet, not to find some new interesting build, but just to find the optimal setups for builds that ive already done the work making.

What theorycrafring the old system offered? Oh yes, put points into everything, get all passives and all effects and done, just plain and dumb powercreep. The new system, while imperfect, allows for far more interesting options and build variantions.

xylena_lazarow · May 2021

ManDraKE wrote: »

What theorycrafring the old system offered? Oh yes, put points into everything, get all passives and all effects and done, just plain and dumb powercreep. The new system, while imperfect, allows for far more interesting options and build variantions.

Agree, unlike the old system, the blue tree slottables actually offer meaningful choices between offensive specializations, healing, and mitigation. Red is still just kinda free stuff, green needs fewer slottables and more passives. It has potential but I can't help but feel like they're just spinning their wheels until the next unfinished rework.

Jodynn · May 2021

As someone who loves theorycrafting, the CP system isn't complicated enough there is no specific buff to elements, no conversion of skills from one to another, no regen passives that are meaningful, this is obscenely simple and you basically have the same as before.

You slot the best stuff and put all the passives in everything you can get for free

PvE there is really only one meta

PvP is dynamic and you have more options, but you still are going to take a set few regardless of your build.

The problem is more so many stars are outweighed by others, just like the old system.

Who the hell wants 150 spell damage compared to 10% damage?

peacenote · May 2021

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Agree, unlike the old system, the blue tree slottables actually offer meaningful choices between offensive specializations, healing, and mitigation. Red is still just kinda free stuff, green needs fewer slottables and more passives. It has potential but I can't help but feel like they're just spinning their wheels until the next unfinished rework.

Maybe what I wanted out of the system was different than what others wanted out of the system, but what you describe is one of the main reasons I DON'T like it, and you've said it more succinctly than I've seen before on the forums even though you are making the opposite point.

I had hoped that the CP system would allow enough horizontal progression so that if my character earned enough CP, it could switch between settings and be PvP, PvE, heals, dps, hybrid based on what I was doing, thus giving me a lot of flexibility and essentially serving as a complex multi-spec functionality (finally, at long last). Grinding out the CP so that I could switch out my builds and do different things seemed something to work towards. And how great that you can swap out your slots without gold! Seemed like so much fun.

But having EVERYTHING meaningful be in the blue tree, with limited slottables, feels simplified and boring and... well... limiting. I don't want to decide between healing and mitigation. I want to decide between what TYPE of mitigation, and what TYPE of heals, and what TYPE of damage I can buff to create more nuanced and creative builds. That's impossible when I have to cover all of that with four slots.

Yawn. Frankly I'm not even sure if my CP choices make much of a difference and they are almost the same between all of my characters. It's literally irritating right now when I earn more and I realize I have to fill them out on all my alts. I want a "mirror all my green tree" settings checkbox as filling it out now seems like busywork.

Tannus15 · May 2021

It's a significant upgrade on the old system. The old system was literally the most boring system you could imagine. The only change you ever made was the red line to adjust for specific trials.
Not only that, but the old system was unclear and gave no indication about how jump points worked, and without addons you had no real way to work out which skills were affected by which damage types.

What I will say is that the new system is still thinking too small and needs more interesting and hopefully class specific slottables, like extra ice damage, or execute damage or extra pet damage. Not everything has to be usable by every class or build.

Hopefully going forward we will see some more bolder CP ideas added to the system.

KeiRaikon · May 2021

Tannus15 wrote: »

What I will say is that the new system is still thinking too small and needs more interesting and hopefully class specific slottables, like extra ice damage, or execute damage or extra pet damage. Not everything has to be usable by every class or build.

Hopefully going forward we will see some more bolder CP ideas added to the system.

Exactly if there were more diverse and unique slotable stars it would be way more interesting but right is just DPS slot the stars that give blanket increase DPS, tanks slot the stars that give blanket increase to defense. There is no specializing in say a certain damage type because the bonus effect all single target or all AoE so for most players its choose the the 4 stars that give a flat increase to your role and forget about it, no need to think about choice because there is none the best DPS stars are the best DPS stars for all builds and classes same with tank and healer.

Bowser · May 2021

Remove champion levels entirely.

Distribute the champion bonuses across skill point abilities.

Fixed!