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Does anyone actually like CP2.0

validifyedneb18_ESO
validifyedneb18_ESO
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First time doing some propper theorycrafting on the new CP system this PTS, and I just find it way more complicated than the last system with no real reason why it needs to be.

The old system was far from perfect, but it was simple atleast. I could make any build, run a dps parse, check the damage distribution and roughly distribute CP to fit the build without worrying about it too much. Probably about 80-90% efficient but I can use the calculator if I really want to finalise a build.

This new system... its just convoluted. Too many points, too many equipable items, too many random bonuses, bonuses that do the same things but some are just straight up numerically better.

I feel like this both serves to exhause theorycrafters, make it harder for people to copy pre-theorycrafted meta builds, and scare away the casual userbase (not least of all because when a player logs into an mmo and sees the max level is 3600 they think everyone has grinded 5k hours to get good, which is no the case)
EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    As a die hard theorycrafter that really wanted to come back to the game, this system honestly feels like its pushing me away. It doesnt want me to play unless I spend hours of my life getting my head around the numbers with a spreadsheet, not to find some new interesting build, but just to find the optimal setups for builds that ive already done the work making.
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • VaranisArano
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    I'm sure I will enjoy the fishing stars by the time I grind enough CP points to unlock them and not lose my nice crafting/farming bonuses. That'll take a while, because I'm trying very hard to not burn myself out with grinding.

    Beyond that, the Green Tree turned previously fluid gameplay into a tedious slottable micromanagement minigame and ZOS still hasn't address the fact that Plentiful Harvest isn't proccing 50% of the time.

    I'm sure there are people who like CP 2.0 - I'm not one of them.
    Edited by VaranisArano on 16 May 2021 13:47
  • xylena_lazarow
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    There are a handful of welcome additions, like mount speed buff, non combat speed buff, and the blue purge star for PvP classes that lack a purge. Overall it feels like they just rearranged the old system, with a more crowded and confusing UI. The dwindling PvP base is somehow still split between two different rulesets, and the floor is still no closer to the ceiling. It makes you wonder why they even bothered. What was the point of it all?
    PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps
  • martijnlv40
    martijnlv40
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    There are a handful of welcome additions, like mount speed buff, non combat speed buff, and the blue purge star for PvP classes that lack a purge. Overall it feels like they just rearranged the old system, with a more crowded and confusing UI. The dwindling PvP base is somehow still split between two different rulesets, and the floor is still no closer to the ceiling. It makes you wonder why they even bothered. What was the point of it all?

    I think you're unfortunately very right here. CP 2.0 pretty much failed. It's not going to matter for the game development -as the CEO said, new players are still flocking to the game and enough money is being generated- but gameplay-wise and for veterans, it's just not an improvement at all. And since the baseline for changes is that they have to be better than the original, not just different, it means that it's a negative for most people that knew the previous system and the more veteran players (like the forum).
  • xylena_lazarow
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    It's not going to matter for the game development -as the CEO said
    This is the part that drives me insane. It seems safe to conclude that competitive balance is not what drives game's appeal or profitability, but if it doesn't matter, why are they still paying people to spin the wheels? They could just give us an ESO 2014 Classic server like WoW did and never touch it again. I'd pay money for that.
    PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps
  • Lugaldu
    Lugaldu
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    I have to say that I don't really think about it anymore. I only have two chars and for me (as a PvE soloplayer) the losses were mainly due to the green tree. But in the meantime I have collected enough CP and everything is balanced or more or less on a similar level than before, so I don´t feel the changes anymore.

    Edited by Lugaldu on 16 May 2021 16:27
  • SmlFrySamuri
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    I've played since beta, but my most recent stint is my ongoing year and a half on Xbone NA, CP 1035. I like the CP 2.0 system. It's not perfect, but I feel like there is a lot more room for advancement, and there is a lot more potential for unique builds. I prefer it over CP 1.0 now that I've gotten used to it.

    To each their own... But it ain't going anywhere so these threads would be much more productive if we talked about how to improve and grow it, rather than lament the pipe dream of reverting to CP 1.0.
  • xylena_lazarow
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    But it ain't going anywhere so these threads would be much more productive if we talked about how to improve and grow it, rather than lament the pipe dream of reverting to CP 1.0.
    I've read that devs generally find it more helpful for us players to identify problems, than to suggest fixes. Many player suggestions sound great, but are technically impossible to implement, pipe dreams as you said. My pipe dream is to go back to the land of soft caps and hybrids, before CP existed.
    PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps
  • BlueRaven
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    Nice concept, failed execution.
  • NoxiousBlight
    NoxiousBlight
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    Yes, I like 2.0 way better than 1.0. CP 1.0 was just grind to 810, slot the meta stuff, and forget about it forever. I almost never opened the CP screen under 1.0.

    The slottable stars idea is very cool and allows for a wide range of possibilities. Once you get CP high enough you can even swap roles by changing stars and not having to respec at a shrine, which is neat.

    2.0 isn't perfect - the green tree should be mostly passive and they skills you DO slot there should be a bit more flavorful. I would like to see the slotted skills do something like change your wayshrine recall animation or other fluff stuff.

    I don't like the power nerfs that are occurring every PTS cycle, but no one likes nerfs regardless of what system it is.

    Overall I think 2.0 is a win.

    Edited by NoxiousBlight on 16 May 2021 16:19
  • katorga
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    CP2.0 does not offer enough progression relative to the amount of playing time CP equates to. Next patch it offers even less.

    CP is around 75% of your game progression, much more than actual levels. In fact because of battle leveling 1-50 has zero value, it is just a place holder time sink. CP should have material benefit. Even if it is "horizontal" the bonuses should still be of value.
  • Shantu
    Shantu
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    Well, at 1928 CP I have 40+ and counting unspent CP's that I have absolutely no interest in using. After this next patch goes live with cutting passives in half, I'll probably have close to 100. For veteran players just interested in combat, it's remarkably uninspiring. If you're not vested into every single aspect of the game, their idea of horizontal progression is meaningless. As it stands, I have zero incentive to care about CP's.
  • Finedaible
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    What I like: I used to like 2.0 since it is slightly more intuitive to use and you don't need to worry about rounded values and wasted points like in the old system. There are a few nice perks added in the new system.

    What I dislike: What was fun and exciting about the new 2.0 system is getting reduced to negligible values this upcoming patch and old stars from previous system are returning so what was the point? I can understand them nerfing combat related passives to a degree, but why nerf Hasty and Hero's Vigor when they don't affect combat that much? It feels like they pride themselves on having movement restricted as much as possible.

    The biggest controversies I see with cp 2.0 is the restriction on slotted passives. I understand this is in place to limit the overall power level of players, but then why make so many non-combat passives slotted? What is the incentive to continue to accrue CP points if we will never be allowed to use more than 4 slotted perks? What was even the point of raising the CP cap if it will take more than what we had to regain what we lost? Feels like artificial inflation. There are just too many redundancies and not enough vertical progression to justify/incentivize going above the "progression cap" for a given tree.

    I feel the most insulting thing about the 7.0.0 patch notes is they posed the explanation for the cp 2.0 nerfs as something that feedback asked for. I don't know who they are collecting feedback from, but it is definitely not from the general player community or the Class Reps as far as I can tell (are class reps even a thing still? Haven't heard anything about them in ages).
  • xylena_lazarow
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    Finedaible wrote: »
    they posed the explanation for the cp 2.0 nerfs as something that feedback asked for
    There were tons of complaints about having to grind to 1500+ cp to finish all the vertical progression, but instead of reducing the grind, they gutted the entire system, like they always do.
    PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps
  • karekiz
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    I had high hopes for slots to really effect your character.

    Instead we got "You gain Moar % dmg" - Dull.
  • KeiRaikon
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    Theres potential in the slotable star system but as of right now its very boring. I thought these new horizontal progression choices would have cool unique effect that would spice up your build instead its just slot these stars for more healing or these stars for more damage. It pretty much just CP1.0 but with more steps and a new UI.

    Also the green tree is just a mess.
    Edited by KeiRaikon on 16 May 2021 20:04
  • Suna_Ye_Sunnabe
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    As usual with zos, it's an interesting concept, but with a horrible execution. It's overly complicated, messy looking, grindy, disheartening (as in spending so many hard earned points on useless perks to actually reach the ones you want), a micromanagement headache, encourages even less build diversity, and on top of that.... it's an insult. It's an absolute insult to be rewarded a pathetic 500 magic or 700 penetration at the highest level. I honestly would rather them do away with CP altogether if that's the route they're taking.
    Angua Anyammis Ae Sunna
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Finedaible wrote: »
    The biggest controversies I see with cp 2.0 is the restriction on slotted passives.

    Totally agree on the non-combat ones, it makes zero sense to make you choose between utility and just adds micromanagement when doing non-combat gameplay for those of us who want to maximise off the skills we worked to unlock.

    As for the combat passives. Just seems to be needless additional complexity. If there are 5 abilities that all more or less do the same thing but you have to choose between them, just cut 4 and make the other one passive non-slotted. I really dont care about the distinction between 500 max stamina and 50 wep damage on the CP level, its really not that important and im just going to calculate and use the maths says is best for my build.

    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Ideally they would just delete the CP system. Or turn it into a very basic perk purchasing system for points without the trees or maybe in tiers if they really feel the need to have progression past lvl 50.

    I may not be the highest level player, with CP 700 and CP 600 on EU and NA before 2.0, but personally id be happy for all of that xp to be thrown away if it meant ridding the game of this system. Or just keep the levels for bragging rights but remove the progression from them.
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
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    One also has to wonder how much time ZOS wastes balancing such a complex behemoth these days. Must be exhausing to make and balance a whole new CP system only for people to point out all sorts of issues and it being largely overhauled within a year.
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • Mauin
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    I treat it in much the same way as CP 1.0: I ignore it most of the time. That being said, for certain situations, CP 2.0 has essentially made the game Micromanagement Online. The green tree is absolutely horrible, so for the vast majority of my characters I slot a generic "dungeon" setup and leave it at that, but for my crafter, I have to swap CP around if I want to do dungeons, or go farming, or refine materials. Never mind the rest of the slottables, because there's no way I'm going to bother with slotting those for repairing armor or whatever. Especially with that cooldown on changing stars.

    The red tree is one I've set up for each role, then ignored ever since because there's no point in slotting anything else. The majority of the slottable ones there seem useless to me, or are otherwise PvP oriented. Blue tree? Essentially the same thing, but they get changed around for certain fights or dungeons/trials (looking at you, Sunspire). Maybe the blue tree is something I'll pay more attention to once I'm up at CP cap, but that's going to take a long time to happen, and at that point, it'd basically just be swapping roles around. That's it.

    Now... The passives, that's something else entirely. They've been gutted twice now. The initial bonuses they gave for Flames of Ambition were already meager. A few percent here, a few percent there. Now it's just... What's the point in even having them? They just feel like they're there to stop us from immediately unlocking the slottables. They're there for you to waste points on. And, really, a waste is what it feels like. I mean, seriously... 40 whole stamina off of the cost of block? Wow, that's some power right there.

    I tolerate the change because I enjoy ES games, but no, I'm really not happy with CP 2.0. It feels like a step backwards - a big one.
  • deleted221106-002999
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    Clunky interface, enforced micromanagement particularly with green tree making activities that were seamless and smooth before now slow and painful.

    Ugly, badly designed gui that take several actions to open up and change stuff - and tough luck if you forgot to tweak something and try to do it because there's a mean 30 second penalty imposed before updated changes will be allowed.

    It looks very much like they never bothered to fix the underlying 'check everything' code instead preferring to save the servers (presumably in preparation for lag-companions?) by limiting player choice.

    You can't do much with less than 10 points in any tree and, if aiming to unlock a specific star, it's actually 30 points minimum.

    It's another one of those changes where I hoped and dared to imagine we would get something better but in fact got something worse that its predecessor which at least had simplicity and ease of use in its favour. Cp1.0 was also do once and forget about for a long while until and unless you were making significant changes to your build.

    Even if you do grind out the cp to maximise your 'choice' you still have the hell-hole of micromanagement. And passives don't work as advertised like plentiful harvest (well done on testing that to the players, 0-points to zos for failure to test).

    And nerfs are incoming.

    It's a hopeless mess. :(
  • oXI_Viper_IXo
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    I hate it for many of the reasons posted above.

    There are a FEW nice additions but overall, it's a huge downgrade from CP 1.0.

    I get that they worked really hard on this for years but I also fear we are now stuck with this terrible system for that very reason.

    It's pretty embarrassing that this is the best they could come up with after all that time and the further nerfs/ignoring green tree issues is just inexcusably tone deaf.
  • Athan1
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    I really like the new CP, so many bonuses, there's something for everyone, regardless of experience or role!

    And surely one cannot be greedy enough to demand every single bonus available in the game be handed out to them, right? Gotta choose wisely and enjoy the perks :)
    Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr
  • remosito
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    I have 6 tanks and 4 healers. I was quite excited about the horizontal progression part. Being able to just swap around some slots for solo, dps, pvp is very appealing.

    But all that horizontal goodness being behind the post 1800cp 50% exp penalty for no good reason at all just pisses me off to the point where I hate the new system.

    And dont get me started on green tree micro managment. Or the no cp scaling when CP2.0 dropped.

    So instead of leaving me happy. CP2.0 made me cancel my eso+ and I wont be buying the new chapter. Or crown packs.

    Done helping paying the salary of the people who were responsible for this mess.



    ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)
  • Supreme_Atromancer
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    Its just a crappy system. Horizontal pogression? What progression?

    You've reached the absolute breadth of horizontal progression the moment you reach enough cp to buy 4 slottables.

    The grand reward for progress is not needing to pay 3k. And no matter how many more cp you earn, that never changes.

    My experience with the green tree:

    Open a chest I find overland. "One rubedite gauntlets and A paltry amount of gold. Why is it so lame? Oh. Of course... And now my inventory is full, let's go back and decon quick so I can do some fun stuff. Decon, decon dec...Oh. crap. OF COURSE" How epic and exciting.

    ZOS, the new CP system is utterly lame, and I'm not in the least surprised that everyone is disappointed with the system. And the fact that your response to this is to nerf it even further is just alarming.
  • merevie
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    We are used to cp being important. I do not think they want it to be for much longer.

    I'm expecting gear selection to drive builds and a lot more of their win/lose ideal to come out in the next year or so.

    This makes the company money.

    They will want us to have to rebuild often to create demand for their skill products.

    Allowing vertical progression the way they initially did means long term players could bypass the urgency of the demand they wish to create for new items.

    Players and the company have opposing objectives here. What we need is for the company to create product that does not rely on nuking our achievements but is more cosmetic. Housing seems the obvious place for them to go for cash. Wish they would lol.

    Edited by merevie on 17 May 2021 08:41
  • ajkb78
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    It's just colossally underwhelming. The only thing I like about it is I don't have to set up my defensive CP (what was the old red CP tree) differently for different vet trials, which saves me 3k per time. When doing multiple trials a day that could add up before.
    Other than that:
    * the green tree shouldn't have slottables, everything should be passive. It's irritating beyond belief to have to keep swapping slottables, even when you have the CP to do so. Essentially I've just settled on a set of 4 for each toon that I stick with. Perhaps I'll miss out on the odd furnishing plan: I just don't care. I changed the slottables to the fishing ones only for the length of time it took me to grind Master Angler on my main, then I put them back and I'll never bother about the fishing ones again.
    * many of the benefits of the red and blue trees are so minuscule that they barely seem worthwhile.
    * they don't even support ZoS's stated aim of making stamina viable in endgame PVE. All that effort to nerf mystic orb and buff caltrops to improve stamina's viability was for absolutely nothing because of the big disparity in ability to reach the penetration cap, which hamstrings pure stamina groups compared with pure magicka groups and pretty much totally rules out mixed groups, at least with any sense of optimising the damage output.
    * some of the changes have been poorly thought out in terms of wider gameplay and use of a wider variety of gear. For example the removal of the CP1.0 passive Exploiter has rendered lightning staves undesirable for basically everyone. The thaumaturge slottable should have included a buff to damage done to off balance enemies as well as the buff to damage over time, logically 2% but even 1% per stage would be weaker than CP1.0 but would probably be enough to make it worth a healer running a lightning staff.
    * The so-called perk of not having to pay 3k to respec barely ever matters, because with the exception of Backstabber there is one meta set of blue slottables for any given damage dealing class and one meta set of blue slottables for all tanks. Nothing needs changing round for different content. And I'm kind of glad because I like not paying 3k each time I do different content, but it does mean that once you have the passives maxed and the 4 meta slottables there is no more progression, vertical or horizontal, because why do I care about putting CP in the slottables that are less good than the ones I already have? Even on toons that I re-role between tank, dd, healer, pvp setup, I'm not constantly doing that and a once-in-a-while 3k is nothing compared with the colossal grind that would be needed to unlock enough extra slottables to make it free. So I just don't care about extra CP.
  • martinhpb16_ESO
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    What I find annoying, yes actually annoying is that I have to respec for crafting / gathering; pvp; pve etc

    Green tree micro management is a mess - for example if I want gathering speed / crafting decon / extra mats from gathering etc on my main it's behind a cp wall that means I sacrifice stuff I need for pvp.

    Edited by martinhpb16_ESO on 17 May 2021 09:39
    At least the spelling is difficult for you.
    Hew's Bane*
  • miteba
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    Overall, i like the CP 2.0 Tree and the four active passives concept.

    Can it be better managed (better distribution of passives and branches)?
    Sure.

    Right now, It's a little underwhelming?
    It feels so.

    The system is very well thought and just needs some tweaks in the branches, imo.
    But it has great potential and they will improve it over time, i'm sure.
    Edited by miteba on 17 May 2021 09:45
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