MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

fred4 · September 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm seeing invigorating drain everywhere now. I figured it was basically ranged magicka players looking for a replacement stun. lol.

I remember there was a dude who used it before. Thing is health % heals can crit and are effected by % healing modifiers.

If you check the tooltip normally it’s a 15% heal per second, add in heal % modifiers and you can probably get it to 25%. Add a 40% crit and it’d be a decent heal.

Downside is the healing amount isn’t tied to your magicka or sp pool, it’d be hard to get it that high as a dps but I should probably try it on my healer.

Edit - checked and it was a 21% heal. Cheap so likely used as a cheap stun and heal, put rat on the same bar and you’d have major protection while it’s up too.

You're thinking of Temporal Guard for the Minor Protection, no doubt. Cyrodiil's Light may be worth considering, though, esp. if you also use Mist Form. There is an older templar build, called the Phalanx build, which uses that to great effect. If you get interrupted while channeling, you get a free magicka skill afterwards. The idea is to use that for free Mist Forms. E.g. Meditate -> Mist Form or Invigorating Drain -> Mist Form.

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

The rise of vamps has one thing my mind. Everyone thinks they are safe because dbos is not as prevalent. Time to bring back the glyph of prismatic onslaught on the back bar.

My buddy ran that like Morrowindish when I was still a vamp blade. That was a deadly deadly rune.

I've used that glyph (Infused) on my ranged bar for the longest time, because I play so much in IC. Good for doing bosses.

Iskiab · September 2019

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm seeing invigorating drain everywhere now. I figured it was basically ranged magicka players looking for a replacement stun. lol.

I remember there was a dude who used it before. Thing is health % heals can crit and are effected by % healing modifiers.

If you check the tooltip normally it’s a 15% heal per second, add in heal % modifiers and you can probably get it to 25%. Add a 40% crit and it’d be a decent heal.

Downside is the healing amount isn’t tied to your magicka or sp pool, it’d be hard to get it that high as a dps but I should probably try it on my healer.

Edit - checked and it was a 21% heal. Cheap so likely used as a cheap stun and heal, put rat on the same bar and you’d have major protection while it’s up too.

You're thinking of Temporal Guard for the Minor Protection, no doubt. Cyrodiil's Light may be worth considering, though, esp. if you also use Mist Form. There is an older templar build, called the Phalanx build, which uses that to great effect. If you get interrupted while channeling, you get a free magicka skill afterwards. The idea is to use that for free Mist Forms. E.g. Meditate -> Mist Form or Invigorating Drain -> Mist Form.

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

The rise of vamps has one thing my mind. Everyone thinks they are safe because dbos is not as prevalent. Time to bring back the glyph of prismatic onslaught on the back bar.

My buddy ran that like Morrowindish when I was still a vamp blade. That was a deadly deadly rune.

I've used that glyph (Infused) on my ranged bar for the longest time, because I play so much in IC. Good for doing bosses.

Oh I mean percentage heals in general are underrated so might be why they’re using the drain.

A lot of people go to esowiki and see the health percentage and think they suck without checking the health %s out. The health percentage on reinvigorating drain is 15% according to the wiki, with my spec it’s 21% because of modifiers and it can crit.

The dark cloak change clued me into that. When it was a health percentage of 3% per second or whatever people thought it sucked, change the tooltip to a value so 1k per second and suddenly people like it.

It’s like cleanse, people say it sucks because it costs an extra 1.8k magicka or so but they’re clueless, likely pve healers who don’t understand pvp yet. If it said it healed for 5k per effect removed people would be asking for nerfs... which is up on the PTS. That’s why I’m pretty sure despite what people think the devs are way more in tune with the game than people think they are.

brandonv516 · September 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm seeing invigorating drain everywhere now. I figured it was basically ranged magicka players looking for a replacement stun. lol.

I remember there was a dude who used it before. Thing is health % heals can crit and are effected by % healing modifiers.

If you check the tooltip normally it’s a 15% heal per second, add in heal % modifiers and you can probably get it to 25%. Add a 40% crit and it’d be a decent heal.

Downside is the healing amount isn’t tied to your magicka or sp pool, it’d be hard to get it that high as a dps but I should probably try it on my healer.

Edit - checked and it was a 21% heal. Cheap so likely used as a cheap stun and heal, put rat on the same bar and you’d have major protection while it’s up too.

You're thinking of Temporal Guard for the Minor Protection, no doubt. Cyrodiil's Light may be worth considering, though, esp. if you also use Mist Form. There is an older templar build, called the Phalanx build, which uses that to great effect. If you get interrupted while channeling, you get a free magicka skill afterwards. The idea is to use that for free Mist Forms. E.g. Meditate -> Mist Form or Invigorating Drain -> Mist Form.

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

The rise of vamps has one thing my mind. Everyone thinks they are safe because dbos is not as prevalent. Time to bring back the glyph of prismatic onslaught on the back bar.

My buddy ran that like Morrowindish when I was still a vamp blade. That was a deadly deadly rune.

I've used that glyph (Infused) on my ranged bar for the longest time, because I play so much in IC. Good for doing bosses.

Oh I mean percentage heals in general are underrated so might be why they’re using the drain.

A lot of people go to esowiki and see the health percentage and think they suck without checking the health %s out. The health percentage on reinvigorating drain is 15% according to the wiki, with my spec it’s 21% because of modifiers and it can crit.

The dark cloak change clued me into that. When it was a health percentage of 3% per second or whatever people thought it sucked, change the tooltip to a value so 1k per second and suddenly people like it.

It’s like cleanse, people say it sucks because it costs an extra 1.8k magicka or so but they’re clueless, likely pve healers who don’t understand pvp yet. If it said it healed for 5k per effect removed people would be asking for nerfs... which is up on the PTS. That’s why I’m pretty sure despite what people think the devs are way more in tune with the game than people think they are.

When they want to change a unique skill not because it's overperforming but because it "needs" to be standardized, they are not in tune with the game.

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

I'm seeing invigorating drain everywhere now. I figured it was basically ranged magicka players looking for a replacement stun. lol.

I remember there was a dude who used it before. Thing is health % heals can crit and are effected by % healing modifiers.

If you check the tooltip normally it’s a 15% heal per second, add in heal % modifiers and you can probably get it to 25%. Add a 40% crit and it’d be a decent heal.

Downside is the healing amount isn’t tied to your magicka or sp pool, it’d be hard to get it that high as a dps but I should probably try it on my healer.

Edit - checked and it was a 21% heal. Cheap so likely used as a cheap stun and heal, put rat on the same bar and you’d have major protection while it’s up too.

You're thinking of Temporal Guard for the Minor Protection, no doubt. Cyrodiil's Light may be worth considering, though, esp. if you also use Mist Form. There is an older templar build, called the Phalanx build, which uses that to great effect. If you get interrupted while channeling, you get a free magicka skill afterwards. The idea is to use that for free Mist Forms. E.g. Meditate -> Mist Form or Invigorating Drain -> Mist Form.

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

The rise of vamps has one thing my mind. Everyone thinks they are safe because dbos is not as prevalent. Time to bring back the glyph of prismatic onslaught on the back bar.

My buddy ran that like Morrowindish when I was still a vamp blade. That was a deadly deadly rune.

I've used that glyph (Infused) on my ranged bar for the longest time, because I play so much in IC. Good for doing bosses.

Oh I mean percentage heals in general are underrated so might be why they’re using the drain.

A lot of people go to esowiki and see the health percentage and think they suck without checking the health %s out. The health percentage on reinvigorating drain is 15% according to the wiki, with my spec it’s 21% because of modifiers and it can crit.

The dark cloak change clued me into that. When it was a health percentage of 3% per second or whatever people thought it sucked, change the tooltip to a value so 1k per second and suddenly people like it.

It’s like cleanse, people say it sucks because it costs an extra 1.8k magicka or so but they’re clueless, likely pve healers who don’t understand pvp yet. If it said it healed for 5k per effect removed people would be asking for nerfs... which is up on the PTS. That’s why I’m pretty sure despite what people think the devs are way more in tune with the game than people think they are.

When they want to change a unique skill not because it's overperforming but because it "needs" to be standardized, they are not in tune with the game.

But it will ruin the feng shui of the homogeneous blending.. jeez lay off will ya xD

fred4 · September 2019

OK, I know this is not the templar thread, but I'm starting to feel at home here. This is version 1 of my ranged / melee, kind of like a magblade, single-target magplar, for CP:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=180709

Note we are using Restoring Focus and blocking with stamina on the ice-staff bar.

No Sweeps!

The gameplan is to DOT people up from range while waiting for the Acuity proc, then rush in with Toppling Charge into Onslaught and execute. It is deadly when it comes together. Toppling Charge has a travel time. Caluurion can end up delayed until after Onslaught and, yes, I tested it is buffed by it. As would be Solar Barrage. I think you could still make this work when the DOT meta is over. Just replace the DOTs with Solar Barrage, Force Pulse and Purifying Light.

Iskiab · September 2019

fred4 wrote: »

OK, I know this is not the templar thread, but I'm starting to feel at home here. This is version 1 of my ranged / melee, kind of like a magblade, single-target magplar, for CP:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=180709

Note we are using Restoring Focus and blocking with stamina on the ice-staff bar.

No Sweeps!

The gameplan is to DOT people up from range while waiting for the Acuity proc, then rush in with Toppling Charge into Onslaught and execute. It is deadly when it comes together. Toppling Charge has a travel time. Caluurion can end up delayed until after Onslaught and, yes, I tested it is buffed by it. As would be Solar Barrage. I think you could still make this work when the DOT meta is over. Just replace the DOTs with Solar Barrage, Force Pulse and Purifying Light.

I’d give it a go. I usually plan sets and then switch around skills depending on how I find it performs.

Some things to consider:
- Onslaught is great but buggy and won’t fire in high pop area. I’d try to keep fighting away from zergs
- Against small/large scalers with a good healer they’ll cleanse those dots faster than you can apply them. You’ll have to adjust the spec if you go to this setting
- The snare on ritual is awesome and one of the best defenses against melee. I assume it being on your front bar means you intend to use it offensively?
- Weapon swoping can get interrupted by things like leap, add lag and you can’t count on swoping bars easily
- Aoes hard counter NBs, having one to negate a whole class can be worth it
- Dots are great against sorcs, strip out too many dots for other abilities and they might give you problems

What I’d suggest:

Try it as is, if melee are giving you problems try ritual on your back bar instead and drop a dot.

If you’re having kiting issues try vampire and adding mist form, the extra sustain will help too.

fred4 · September 2019

Well, this should be the most toxic OP build ever, right? It is not. I have never fully gotten the DOT meta. I still think too much is made of it. Yeah, this isn't a super high DOT pressure build, but it combines that with some other nasty stuff, e.g. Caluurion and Onslaught.

I ran into a well known stam DK 1vXer / YouTuber on PC EU. He tends to wear Fury and, based on combat logs, I believe he did. He killed me, once, as I was running to where NPCs would not negate me. He could not kill me again, but I had to play very defensively. When I successfully bursted him, DOTs applied, I hardly made a dent. He didn't even block. This just confirms something to me, namely that stam DK and the old Fury / stack weapon damage meta is flying under the radar. My templar feels good, but my own stam DK feels even better, if I'm honest.

As my burst did not work against this guy, I didn't want to give him the satisfaction of killing me again and eventually made my way from the resource tower back to the keep, with him in pursuit. I then found out he is one of the most toxic people I've encountered in a long while, as I was greeted by a tirade of abuse in chat. Why is it that so many of the best players become that way? It's depressing. It does not inspire one to improve.

From a nightblade point of view, I feel templar - Sweeps in particular - is way overtuned. My, now CP500 on PC NA, magblade has been hit with almost 3K Jabs crits. That's from a single hit of which Jabs has 4. At CP810 I rarely see hits crit over 2K, but even that is too much. When you're a melee magblade and they have Living Dark on as well, I feel you can't play against such templars. Furthermore, Mirage / Phantasmal Escape does not appear to help. I think I even had that up, when the stamplar hit me for 3K.

It's a completely different story when you pit templar against stam DK. Overall game balance seems so far off, it makes me question why the community clamours for it. Even if you obtained it, most open world encounters will remain heavily stacked in favor of one side by virtue of numbers.

fred4 · September 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

OK, I know this is not the templar thread, but I'm starting to feel at home here. This is version 1 of my ranged / melee, kind of like a magblade, single-target magplar, for CP:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=180709

Note we are using Restoring Focus and blocking with stamina on the ice-staff bar.

No Sweeps!

The gameplan is to DOT people up from range while waiting for the Acuity proc, then rush in with Toppling Charge into Onslaught and execute. It is deadly when it comes together. Toppling Charge has a travel time. Caluurion can end up delayed until after Onslaught and, yes, I tested it is buffed by it. As would be Solar Barrage. I think you could still make this work when the DOT meta is over. Just replace the DOTs with Solar Barrage, Force Pulse and Purifying Light.

I’d give it a go. I usually plan sets and then switch around skills depending on how I find it performs.

Some things to consider:
- Onslaught is great but buggy and won’t fire in high pop area. I’d try to keep fighting away from zergs
- Against small/large scalers with a good healer they’ll cleanse those dots faster than you can apply them. You’ll have to adjust the spec if you go to this setting
- The snare on ritual is awesome and one of the best defenses against melee. I assume it being on your front bar means you intend to use it offensively?
- Weapon swoping can get interrupted by things like leap, add lag and you can’t count on swoping bars easily
- Aoes hard counter NBs, having one to negate a whole class can be worth it
- Dots are great against sorcs, strip out too many dots for other abilities and they might give you problems

What I’d suggest:

Try it as is, if melee are giving you problems try ritual on your back bar instead and drop a dot.

If you’re having kiting issues try vampire and adding mist form, the extra sustain will help too.

I played it this morning. Onlaught really only buffs Radiant. Caluurion landing after Onslaught is a bit hit and miss. I was compensating for the lack of AOE with detect potions, but I think Solar Barrage may be in order, as well as switching from Radiant to Sweeps.

The skill layout is mostly determined by wanting to control the Caluurion proc. The 2H bar is not really the main bar you spend your time on. It's the burst bar only.

I tend to instinctively block, when under pressure. Honor the Dead had to be on the ice-staff bar for block casting and Living Dark needs to be refreshed every 6 seconds. The DOTs had to be on the ranged bar. The reason Ritual (and Rune and RAT) is on the 2H bar is that they won't activate Caluurion (although ticking DOTs will), so you withhold the Caluurion proc until you're ready to burst.

Ideally you should wait for the Acuity proc to guarantee Caluurion. In practice it often goes off at the wrong times or you get CCs or people LoS.

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

If you want a good magplar the build im running has been working well, and has tons of aoe burst. Fun solo and great in group

btb body, innate lightning/snb, 2arcane 1infused all spell damage, grothdar

Bars are splitting, reflective, ele drain, jabs, topple, cresent.
Honor, channel focus, mist, extended ritual, living dark, devour swarm.

I have had alot of success with this setup

brandonv516 · September 2019

This is now officially a Templar thread.

I'll be playing Magblade still.

fred4 · September 2019

Thanks, but I don't play vampires. That said, I might modify it. Light armor? Food? Mundus? You got any stam sustain? I assume you get away without any by using Mist?

Not like my build wasn't successful this morning in IC. I killed a nightblade, a DK. Then I won a 3-way 1v1v1 fight. Then I was the last of my faction to die in a larger fight. I didn't mention it, because success against random players doesn't mean much, especially those that play early in the morning. How do you define success?

That 1vXer was a known quantity. Someone who didn't just play well, but had their build sorted out. The damage from the DOTs, Caluurion and Onslaught was shockingly low. DOTs at or below 1K. Onslaught 2.5K. Caluurion 5K (hit before Onslaught). Now he didn't hit me that hard either on average, but his Dizzying ramped up quite a lot, up to over 6K. He clearly had more pressure and ate less damage than I did. He used Corrosive. Neither Corrosive nor Onslaught buff DOTs, so I think the upshot is to use more direct damage skills or forget Onslaught and run a more conventional build, like you.

Something stuck in my mind is a long video of a duelling tournament, organised by Khyleo some time ago. He had ruled out a whole bunch of sets and skills, but the game seemed as unbalanced as I've ever seen. A magblade dominated other players until it ran into the mag DK who won the tournament. You could see the sheer amount of pressure the magblade had applied to other players and, when it faced the DK, the tables turned completely and the magblade seemed out of options. I refuse to believe that was due to much of a skill difference in that case. I saw it as imbalance.

fred4 · September 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

This is now officially a Templar thread.

I'll be playing Magblade still.

Sorry. Magblade is and remains my main too.

Iskiab · September 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

This is now officially a Templar thread.

I'll be playing Magblade still.

I probably will too until the patch, then planning on a MagDK or Magsorc, I’m not sure yet.

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

fred4 wrote: »

Thanks, but I don't play vampires. That said, I might modify it. Light armor? Food? Mundus? You got any stam sustain? I assume you get away without any by using Mist?

Not like my build wasn't successful this morning in IC. I killed a nightblade, a DK. Then I won a 3-way 1v1v1 fight. Then I was the last of my faction to die in a larger fight. I didn't mention it, because success against random players doesn't mean much, especially those that play early in the morning. How do you define success?

That 1vXer was a known quantity. Someone who didn't just play well, but had their build sorted out. The damage from the DOTs, Caluurion and Onslaught was shockingly low. DOTs at or below 1K. Onslaught 2.5K. Caluurion 5K (hit before Onslaught). Now he didn't hit me that hard either on average, but his Dizzying ramped up quite a lot, up to over 6K. He clearly had more pressure and ate less damage than I did. He used Corrosive. Neither Corrosive nor Onslaught buff DOTs, so I think the upshot is to use more direct damage skills or forget Onslaught and run a more conventional build, like you.

Something stuck in my mind is a long video of a duelling tournament, organised by Khyleo some time ago. He had ruled out a whole bunch of sets and skills, but the game seemed as unbalanced as I've ever seen. A magblade dominated other players until it ran into the mag DK who won the tournament. You could see the sheer amount of pressure the magblade had applied to other players and, when it faced the DK, the tables turned completely and the magblade seemed out of options. I refuse to believe that was due to much of a skill difference in that case. I saw it as imbalance.

I run atro mundus with a lizard, all my buddies joke I'm the lizard wizard. With btb I'm running spring loaded and have Stam back glyph on my shield, I have like 18k Stam and I can restore ok with just a heavy. I'm a little less mobile that they took the ani cancel from mist, but yeah thats the mobility and it's still effective. FYI if you're in mist and overwhelming is procing it's restore mag to you, I discovered this in IC. But I can really just block cast get my bubble up, barswap cresent then go to work. If things are hairy hopefully I have some bats.

Next patch I will go back to overwhelming and skoria since it's a great way to get off that back bar block bol death sentence.

I play alot of magplar also, it and magnb. But I do really love my templar

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

I'm trying to think of a dps build in bgs that can brawler. I have my magdk setup for it, but I was the versitility to run it on magnb also. I ran a bunch and my setup works but I feel bad during team fights. I have nothing to do so I'm gonna try some theory crafting

fred4 · September 2019

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

...it's a great way to get off that back bar block bol death sentence.

THIS! This is why I ran Pirate + Protective last patch and why I am playing around with a heavy armor option now. I think Living Dark is an incredible new defense, though. It's hard to appreciate, unless you have to play against it. Between that, heavy armor, blocking, BoL and the occasional cleanse, I was able to come back from the brink of death back to full health numerous times, this morning.

I know people duel in light armor and can manage their defenses by pressuring the other guy, but I'm not quite that good and at any rate in open-world, without vamp, I think you need to be tankier.

Last patch I used a vMA resto for the extra HOT. I hated a blocking weapon on the backbar. It locked me into BoL spamming when I started with templar. This patch Living Dark has replaced Regeneration and I can happily run a block-enhancing weapon (ice staff). It's a win win. Does anyone else feel ZOS are so clueless? They nerf Pirate. They nerf Protective. That was, foremost, a magplar build pattern. Then they intended to nerf or move Total Dark sideways, but they completely buffed the crap out of that skill instead. They certainly made it much more overbearing than it was before.

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

I'm a light armor magplar believer more bols, and bigger bols

fred4 · September 2019

Coming back to NB, as soon as I saw someone mention this combo in another thread:

Shadowy -> Elemental Weapon -> LA -> Lotus Fan -> LA -> Fear (Caluurion) -> LA -> Soul Harvest -> LA -> Spam or Execute

I knew that would work and, OMG, it does. I just ganked an Imperial Physique guy in basically 2 GCDs with this.

This is a very elaborate combo, which involves a bar swap after cloak in my build. However, in terms of when these abilities hit, it's only after Lotus Fan. NB has the leisure to pull something like this off. I never looked into something this elaborate before, because I quite enjoy a more brawly playstyle, but I almost feel a little foolish now. Got to see how it holds up long term, though.

Iskiab · September 2019

fred4 wrote: »

Coming back to NB, as soon as I saw someone mention this combo in another thread:

Shadowy -> Elemental Weapon -> LA -> Lotus Fan -> LA -> Fear (Caluurion) -> LA -> Soul Harvest -> LA -> Spam or Execute

I knew that would work and, OMG, it does. I just ganked an Imperial Physique guy in basically 2 GCDs with this.

This is a very elaborate combo, which involves a bar swap after cloak in my build. However, in terms of when these abilities hit, it's only after Lotus Fan. NB has the leisure to pull something like this off. I never looked into something this elaborate before, because I quite enjoy a more brawly playstyle, but I almost feel a little foolish now. Got to see how it holds up long term, though.

Isn’t it better to drop the light attack before Lotus?

Cloak - Ele - Lotus - LA - etc...

Ele weapon gives bonus damage on a light attack done within a couple seconds so you can skip a LA for a bit of burst. I think it was Brandon who uses this is his ranged build, and I’ve tried using it too but still figuring out how best to use it with Onslaught. It’s harder in melee because you can miss a melee LA with movement and the bonus damage can expire.

Or is it that you’re trying to hit with the buffed ranged LA at the same timeish as lotus?

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

I'm a light armor magplar believer more bols, and bigger bols

Same, I’ve been trying to fit LA and more crit into all my builds, especially in CP pvp. It feels like I get more bang from LA and crit than heavy, especially when someone can negate all your resistances when they onslaught.

It’s tough to balance with defensive nerfs; I’ve been stacking sustain, healing % modifiers with Nord and bloodspawn. I’m still not satisfied and think I can improve my build by adding more speed.

fred4 · September 2019

Ele Weapon is good for only 2 seconds, according to the tooltip. I previously tested Ele Weapon -> Skill -> LA and it did not work for me. The reality is more like 1.5 seconds or it's got something to do with the LA travel time.

In terms of when everything lands, it depends on distance. You do not want the light attack to land first and consume the guaranteed crit. However if you are a good distance away, Lotus Fan is faster than a flame light attack, even though the LA is cast first. I think I have seen all possible skill orders in the combat log. LA first, Lotus Fan first, Ele Weapon first. Caluurion will only proc when the latter two crit, so that's what you're aiming for.

Furthermore I have now seen someone block Soul Harvest after Fear, which may well be due to the ulti delay. Fear is only good to make Caluurion land through block then. There may be a case to omit it. A problem with this whole approach is that nothing in the burst takes advantage of the 20% buff from Soul Harvest. If you omit Fear there might be a chance that Caluurion only lands after Soul Harvest. On the other hand, if someone ran out of stamina or is slow / lagging out, Fear will obviously work a treat.

As far as adding speed to templar, I totally agree. Melee builds benefit from raw speed. Otherwise you can find yourself in the situation where the enemy is just out of reach and stays that way, as you both move at the same speed. But, as you know, I would say that.

fred4 · September 2019

OK, I have been practicing the combo this morning. What's really brilliant about it is that, if you pick out a target, you fear everyone around that target, giving you a second longer to finish the job, for example with a Zaan proc. I hadn't thought of that.

I might need to revise my opinion of templar being OP against melee magblade. Not sure yet. This is a step up for me. By killing people or at least pressuring them harder you reduce your exposure to counter-attack. That's how NB has always been, that's how the class works, IMO. Unfortunately - depending on your perspective - this is the ganking paradigm that many people hate.

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

Yeah that's a pretty clever combo when it comes to ganking. I have never been a huge fan of the style but it can be it of fun. I know our friend mr whiskers is a gank star. He probably has a few combos he could share with you. That man stays in the shadows

My gank attempts can be rather sad at times but is don't play that style enough. I tried doing the ele/concealed(canceled)/light attack combo this way you still get the stun, the ele proc and the calu burst. Mr whiskers does something similar I think and I ran I to an ad who was just 1shoting me with this combo. At least it's how it showed on my death recap

Problem is I dont play that way enough and I'm average so i screw up that quick of a combo fast and hard. I like the more kite it fight in the open style not the I killl you in one hit or run for the hills build

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

fred4 wrote: »

.As far as adding speed to templar, I totally agree. Melee builds benefit from raw speed. Otherwise you can find yourself in the situation where the enemy is just out of reach and stays that way, as you both move at the same speed. But, as you know, I would say that.

Something about this made me lol so hard. I've been slow for a long time on my ranged blade. Stam sorcs were my least favorite. I haven't played speed really since swift came out pre nerf. With the suggestion to steed and A couple swift I am fast again. I laugh sooolo hard when the stamsorc who starts coming for me from thr gets out run. Those hurricane Stam sorcs are normally the nb hunters, catch me if you can sucks! Rat, drop shade and Sprint. Even with hurricane up I can just outrun you fool. It's a good feeling

Edit, ive been playing my amber setup and its really nice, I like it alot, however I almost feel I am over sustaining on Stam Regen even though that was the goal. The bear haunh and shack would give me more base stats but slightly less Regen me being a lizard I sit at 12.5k Stam I'm like one roll Dodge then a bad cc from death... Idk

fred4 · September 2019

fred4 wrote: »

I might need to revise my opinion of templar being OP against melee magblade. Not sure yet. This is a step up for me. By killing people or at least pressuring them harder you reduce your exposure to counter-attack.

Well, I just tried to gank a small-scaler and he did a perfect rotation. Dodged the initial attack, which means he must have heard the Ele Weapon sound, then a full rotation Noxious, Claw, Dizzying, Take Flight, Execute, perfectly done. No defense, just full on counter-attack. I am back to square one. Against someone who does that I have absolutely no chance, because a DK knows he's tanky enough to be the last one standing. I just cannot figure out where my Fear went and how he was not CCd. Wish I'd recorded the footage. I'm out of ideas on how to fight someone like that. I can't exactly dodge roll around him, while attacking him, as a magblade. Putting the shield up first also seems like a step too far. Casting Ele Weapon already adds such a lead time to the gank that it's hard to track people and get the timing right.

fred4 · September 2019

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

.As far as adding speed to templar, I totally agree. Melee builds benefit from raw speed. Otherwise you can find yourself in the situation where the enemy is just out of reach and stays that way, as you both move at the same speed. But, as you know, I would say that.

Something about this made me lol so hard. I've been slow for a long time on my ranged blade. Stam sorcs were my least favorite. I haven't played speed really since swift came out pre nerf. With the suggestion to steed and A couple swift I am fast again. I laugh sooolo hard when the stamsorc who starts coming for me from thr gets out run. Those hurricane Stam sorcs are normally the nb hunters, catch me if you can sucks! Rat, drop shade and Sprint. Even with hurricane up I can just outrun you fool. It's a good feeling

Edit, ive been playing my amber setup and its really nice, I like it alot, however I almost feel I am over sustaining on Stam Regen even though that was the goal. The bear haunh and shack would give me more base stats but slightly less Regen me being a lizard I sit at 12.5k Stam I'm like one roll Dodge then a bad cc from death... Idk

I sit at 12.5K in CP and 1.3K stam regen. Could not do with less. If you got Mist and you are ranged, I guess you might.

fred4 · September 2019

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

Yeah that's a pretty clever combo when it comes to ganking. I have never been a huge fan of the style but it can be it of fun. I know our friend mr whiskers is a gank star. He probably has a few combos he could share with you. That man stays in the shadows

My gank attempts can be rather sad at times but is don't play that style enough. I tried doing the ele/concealed(canceled)/light attack combo this way you still get the stun, the ele proc and the calu burst. Mr whiskers does something similar I think and I ran I to an ad who was just 1shoting me with this combo. At least it's how it showed on my death recap

Problem is I dont play that way enough and I'm average so i screw up that quick of a combo fast and hard. I like the more kite it fight in the open style not the I killl you in one hit or run for the hills build

What bums me about complex combos is that they don't make for a very fluid playstyle. Plainly opening with Lotus Fan makes it so much easier to take advantage of people's momentary positioning. I enjoy using the terrain and playing a very reactive build more than stringing together complex rotations.

Might be time to drop Lotus Fan in favor of Elemetal Weapon only, but I don't know. The gap closer has been integral to my playstyle.

Iskiab · September 2019

One thing to consider, flame clench has a knock back effect. I swear some people macro breaking free or something because there’s no delay.

Anyways, if it’s a matter of fractions of a second you can’t break free during a knock back animation so you’ll get a little bit longer stun.

Agree about speed. As a healer it’s pretty dumb right now. I have no issues with gankers but do have issues against stam spamming dizzy and nothing else with speed.

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

fred4 wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I might need to revise my opinion of templar being OP against melee magblade. Not sure yet. This is a step up for me. By killing people or at least pressuring them harder you reduce your exposure to counter-attack.

Well, I just tried to gank a small-scaler and he did a perfect rotation. Dodged the initial attack, which means he must have heard the Ele Weapon sound, then a full rotation Noxious, Claw, Dizzying, Take Flight, Execute, perfectly done. No defense, just full on counter-attack. I am back to square one. Against someone who does that I have absolutely no chance, because a DK knows he's tanky enough to be the last one standing. I just cannot figure out where my Fear went and how he was not CCd. Wish I'd recorded the footage. I'm out of ideas on how to fight someone like that. I can't exactly dodge roll around him, while attacking him, as a magblade. Putting the shield up first also seems like a step too far. Casting Ele Weapon already adds such a lead time to the gank that it's hard to track people and get the timing right.

I changed up and went back to healing ward, this allowed me to slot siphoning strikes over Regen, it also gave me a siphon ability so I could drop soul siphon and go back to resto ult. That is such a good ult and it saves me alot more. You get dotted like vs dks and temps mag or stam you know that cc coming, uneles you have a shade up, or want to fight then pop a resto ult or immovable pot. I like to keep my pot for after the burst of I need since I can break fast.

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

One thing to consider, flame clench has a knock back effect. I swear some people macro breaking free or something because there’s no delay.

Anyways, if it’s a matter of fractions of a second you can’t break free during a knock back animation so you’ll get a little bit longer stun.

Agree about speed. As a healer it’s pretty dumb right now. I have no issues with gankers but do have issues against stam spamming dizzy and nothing else with speed.

Yeah but the problem I found is the knock back often will push them out of harvest range. Maybe with a different rotation, harvest, clench, bow

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

So... I have an idea and it's probably not gonna work but right. Moon Hunter / calu / kena.

Light attack twice, cloak, lotus

I would love to pull this combo off but I would need to grind calu rings or moon rings and weapons.