Close please

VaranisArano · September 2019

BrianLovesLisa wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Game mechanic.

Block, barswap, and bash cancelling are all integral parts of combat fluidity so we aren't locked into skills for the full animation.

Light Attack Weaving is substantial portion of DPS.

Remove it then instead of nerfing skills, if DPS is "so over the top and out of control" Also remove animation cancel for the same reason. Seems like it would fix the Huge out of control DPS issue.

What I actually said was "Light Attack Weaving is now explicitly taught in the Level Up Advisor tips and supported by a number of sets. ZOS buffed it in Summerset and now its a substantial portion of DPS."

In context, its clear that there are more solutions than "Removing light attack weaving." The most obvious (and easier) solution is simply to revert the Summerset buff that increased light attack damage and its scaling with max magicka or stamina. Another solution would be to tone down sets and skills that proc on light attacks, like Relequen and Crushing Weapon.

Of course, that all assumes that ZOS doesn't want light attacks to be a substantial portion of DPS.

jcm2606 · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

Red_Feather wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Game mechanic.

Block, barswap, and bash cancelling are all integral parts of combat fluidity so we aren't locked into skills for the full animation.

Light Attack Weaving is now explicitly taught in the Level Up Advisor tips and supported by a number of sets. ZOS buffed it in Summerset and now its a substantial portion of DPS.

Heavy Attack Weaving have been necessary since the Morrowind patch when ZOS nerfed all other sustain.

So whatever we think ZOS ought to do, animation cancelling is undoubtedly intended and encouraged.

What is heavy attack weaving. I am trying to find tutorial on it. A video that appeared in google result was 10 minutes of no help at all for heavy attack weaving despite the title claiming it did.

Basically, charge up an ordinary heavy attack, but before your character automatically releases the heavy attack, press the skill you want to weave into the heavy attack. Immediately after the heavy attack lands, the animation is cut short and the skill gets cast, similarly to how light attack weaving cuts the light attack animation short to cast the heavy attack.

Mr_Walker wrote: »

It's a glitch that disadvantages high latency players.

I'm a high latency player, and I can animation cancel just fine. If you can't, slow yourself down, practice more. It's as simple as that.

WeylandLabs · September 2019

If you have ani-cancel, give it to every class and weapon ability not just the ones who have the most of it.

I know the real meaning behind ani canceling.

Mr_Walker · September 2019

jcm2606 wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Game mechanic.

Block, barswap, and bash cancelling are all integral parts of combat fluidity so we aren't locked into skills for the full animation.

Light Attack Weaving is now explicitly taught in the Level Up Advisor tips and supported by a number of sets. ZOS buffed it in Summerset and now its a substantial portion of DPS.

Heavy Attack Weaving have been necessary since the Morrowind patch when ZOS nerfed all other sustain.

So whatever we think ZOS ought to do, animation cancelling is undoubtedly intended and encouraged.

What is heavy attack weaving. I am trying to find tutorial on it. A video that appeared in google result was 10 minutes of no help at all for heavy attack weaving despite the title claiming it did.

Basically, charge up an ordinary heavy attack, but before your character automatically releases the heavy attack, press the skill you want to weave into the heavy attack. Immediately after the heavy attack lands, the animation is cut short and the skill gets cast, similarly to how light attack weaving cuts the light attack animation short to cast the heavy attack.

Mr_Walker wrote: »

It's a glitch that disadvantages high latency players.

I'm a high latency player, and I can animation cancel just fine. If you can't, slow yourself down, practice more. It's as simple as that.

Thanks for the advice. Been there, do it already. It's simply not as "quick" to occur as those with less latency.

danno8 · September 2019

Bash, block and roll canceling are necessary for good reactive combat.

Light attack weaving and cutting that animation short looks ugly and spastic but the game would require a fundamental change to combat mechanics in order to eliminate that particular ugliness. I think we just have to live with it.

max_only · September 2019

Other

I don’t think they are able to remove it. I don’t think they know how.

The only solution I found is to not play dps in group content. When my tank ani-cancels it’s to press block during a boss fight instead of finishing a heavy attack for resource return. That’s it. Any other time I do it is pure happenstance.

Also, they are absolutely not designing content around animation cancelling. It doesn’t enter their mind. I’m not saying they create content that is designed around people who never ani-cancel I’m saying it’s not even on the table, not in the room. You can tell by the one shot mechanics that are only avoided by a dps race that they aren’t designing the content with strategy in mind. You could
a) design a fight that requires you to see all boss phases and provides you with environmental strategy to survive (I’m thinking of final bosses in old school jrpgs like Zelda) or
b) design a fight that requires you to burn so fast all mechanics/phases/synergies/etc are ignored.

They go with b. And they will keep going with b as long as dungeons are a chore. No one wants to stay in a group instance any longer than they have to, so they put in a bunch of skips. Some of the skips are on the map and some of the skips are “just burn it, ignore everything else”.

MaleAmazon · September 2019

What is heavy attack weaving. I am trying to find tutorial on it. A video that appeared in google result was 10 minutes of no help at all for heavy attack weaving despite the title claiming it did.

I saw that this was answered above but I think it can be said more clearly (also it stated you light attack weaved into heavy attack which is wrong):

You hold the LMB down (on pc) for the entire combat, or rather for as long as you weave. And you press the skill button during the charging of the heavy attack which 'queues' the skill to occur right after the HA hits but before the 'return to base stance' part of the HA animation occurs. And since you are constantly holding the mouse button down it queues a new HA right after the skill.

Your clicking margin of error here can actually be quite large; you don't (always) have to wait to right before the HA fires. Experiment.

This is IMO an underappreciated weave since you auto-sustain, there are good sets boosting HAs and in PvP the fact that you are stunned if they block your HA isn't necessarily bad since you can break free immediately and get immunity. Better being stunned by their block than by their stun-burst combo.

It is less bursty than a LA weave though.

Nemesis7884 · September 2019

Remove animation canceling

get ridd of it, its just a stupid bug, rather make the combat system more dynamic and appealing and trying to sell bug overseights as features

WuffyCerulei · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

It’s a mechanic now and has been for years. 98% of people who complain can’t weave to save their lives. It is not an exploit. It is not a bug. Time for the whiners to stop beating the sun-bleached horse skeleton.

Taloros · September 2019

I completely agree with the OP, except that I don't animation cancel.
- It makes balancing harder.
- It seems to be co-responsible for the extreme gap in damage output between players.
- It's obviously not an intended mechanic. The Devs lacked the technical knowledge or creativity to remove it, and so chose to live with it. But it's not accounted for probably.

An easy way to mitigate the problem to a certain degree would be to reduce light attack damage. For a more heavy-handed second step, blocking, dodge-rolling and bar swapping could put a one-second cooldown on all skills. It's not rocket-science - it just requires the will to do it.

Would there be complaints on the forums? Yes.
Would it change a mechanic a minority of players got accustomed to for some years? Yes.
Would it make content harder for those players? Yes.

Is it less of a change then nerfing all DoTs by 50% damage and 33% resource cost? Yes.

Just do it.

MLGProPlayer · September 2019

Taloros wrote: »

I completely agree with the OP, except that I don't animation cancel.
- It makes balancing harder.
- It seems to be co-responsible for the extreme gap in damage output between players.
- It's obviously not an intended mechanic. The Devs lacked the technical knowledge or creativity to remove it, and so chose to live with it. But it's not accounted for probably.

An easy way to mitigate the problem to a certain degree would be to reduce light attack damage. For a more heavy-handed second step, blocking, dodge-rolling and bar swapping could put a one-second cooldown on all skills. It's not rocket-science - it just requires the will to do it.

Would there be complaints on the forums? Yes.
Would it change a mechanic a minority of players got accustomed to for some years? Yes.
Would it make content harder for those players? Yes.

Is it less of a change then nerfing all DoTs by 50% damage and 33% resource cost? Yes.

Just do it.

They have been designing content and gear around animation cancelling for years now. Getting rid of it would require a lot of re-balancing of other things in the game.

mairwen85 · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

If you have ani-cancel, give it to every class and weapon ability not just the ones who have the most of it.

I know the real meaning behind ani canceling.

Every class can do it... Any instant cast ability can be woven. In fact every skill can clip the tail off a light attack animation. Bar swap will cancel animation of every ability, and cut short non instant cast abilities. Same for block and dodge roll.

Please share the real meaning behind ani canceling with the rest of us.

Bashev · September 2019

It used to be a bug that turned into a feature.

xeha_arwen11 · September 2019

Remove animation canceling

Mr_Walker wrote: »

It's a glitch that disadvantages high latency players.

Very true. I am able to animation cancel without any problem, but there are a lot of people who cannot due to other issues, and I feel very bad for them.

I don't like animation cancelling. It makes the flow of rotations feel very jerky and bad, in my opinion. In addition, the timing required is varied in a glitchy way since it was initially unintended. If it was proper and uniform then I would have a lot of fun. I absolutely adore learning super strict timing in games.

Animation cancelling is unintentional, and ZOS has been unable to fix it, so they decided to pretend it was a proper technique. They put a tip in the game about it to save face. Because of this, people's DPS has been artificially raised quite significantly, causing the balance of the game to be even more broken.

If animation cancelling was intentional, then the player character wouldn't look like they're doing a herky-jerky dance when attacking. There's a difference between bad animation and actual glitchy animation. This is glitchy. My friends who don't play this game tell me when I do my rotation with ani-cancelling that it looks incredibly stupid because of the jerkiness and terrible unintended cutting of animations. I agree.

This is a highly detested opinion because people are incredibly obsessed with ultra high DPS, but I just want to be honest about this matter.

I would prefer animation cancelling be removed.

MaleAmazon · September 2019

Would it change a mechanic a minority of players got accustomed to for some years?

Ok I need a warm-up so I'll beat the dead horse some more.

First of all it is not really a minority that weaves. Ok, it might technically be a minority, I haven't done the analysis, but anyone who isn't downright awful at combat does some sort of weave. If you cannot weave you should not be in a veteran dungeon, you should be in front of a training dummy learning how to weave.

Removing weaving would:

1) make light attacks pretty much useless.

2) make combat unresponsive. You could not bash to interrupt because you used a skill, for example.

3) remove skill and timing from combat.

4) encourage botting and macros (since simple 1-2-3-4-1 rotations with skills every second would rule).

5) skew builds towards maximum spam instead of using heavy attack resource restore.

Also, again, the cancels are there by code. The only thing they did not foresee, apparently, is that people would use things like bash only to squeeze in extra damage in the GCD. Then they embraced it. This happens in other games also. The code deliberately allows animation breaking in order to have fluid combat. They could remove it in a heartbeat, but they don't because then combat would suuuuuuuuuck.

mairwen85 · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

xeha_arwen11 wrote: »

My friends who don't play this game tell me when I do my rotation with ani-cancelling that it looks incredibly stupid

Hmmm... I'm not sure we can take stock of their opinion.

AzraelKrieg · September 2019

Other

Not an exploit. It was unintended consequence of how the game's combat system works. Removing it would have broken the system entirely so they just now accept it as a feature and not a bug

Taloros · September 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They have been designing content and gear around animation cancelling for years now. Getting rid of it would require a lot of re-balancing of other things in the game.

No, it wouldn't, at least not when applying ZOS' standards for other changes. When nerfing DoTs - and intended mechanic - damage by 50% to 60% is okay, then it's perfectly okay to remove an unintended mechanic.

Runkorko · September 2019

Remove animation canceling

Most pve casual players dont even bother to visit this troll cave called forums, so ye, numbers are false.
As long as we have this bs in game, devs will run from poin a to point z "trying" to fix things.
Enjoy the new patch btw...

Runkorko · September 2019

Remove animation canceling

Deathlord92 wrote: »

It’s apart of the game and shows how good you are with skill rotation.

pls make a vid and show us how good is your skill rotation

its like old horse bug shows how good are you at riding.
kids this days.....

Juhasow · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

It's 2019. Just stop.

Runkorko · September 2019

Remove animation canceling

Juhasow wrote: »

It's 2019. Just stop.

Horse stamina BUG was in game for like 5y and was REMOVED.
Why not animation cancer?
Because you have use of it ?
Right

oddbasket · September 2019

Remove animation canceling

ZOS is trying too hard to balance dps based on inflated 100k parses instead of fixing the combat system for a more conformant average instead of a large discrepancy due to using or being aware of an unintended 'mechanic' and getting a lot of flak for blanket nerfs from the same people defending said 'mechanic'.

Juhasow · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

It's 2019. Just stop.

Horse stamina BUG was in game for like 5y and was REMOVED.
Why not animation cancer?
Because you have use of it ?
Right

Because horse bug was not described in level up advisor. Because there isnt whole group of sets build around horse bug. Because horse bug was not crucial part of what makes ESO fun for many people. Because horse bug was not officially allowed by developers before game even launched. Should I continue ?

Your horse bug comparision is kinda silly. You compare miniscule part of the game that was just hidden under carpet and not discussed at all due to how low importance it had on the game to the whole combat design that was discussed many times and developers made statements about it many many times calling it a feature and allowing to use it. Great reasoning. That way I am more right then You because I have more start on forum lol.

Also there is plenty of things that started as unintended features or bugs in games and are now crucial parts of gaming today because developers have seen potential in them. Could You for example call combo in any fighter game a bug these days ?

Learn to play instead of looking for excuses and forcing vague arguments into conversation. You had 5 years for that also.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · September 2019

Keep animation canceling but change/update some things about it

the light attack side needs to be fix, the big issue with dps difference between top and bottom is that 30% maybe even more of the population light attacks dont always go of

Juhasow · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

the light attack side needs to be fix, the big issue with dps difference between top and bottom is that 30% maybe even more of the population light attacks dont always go of

Dont worry. It's going to change in new update. I think many people dont realize that ZoS with those changes in dragonhold is prety close with reaching the goal of making the difference between top and the botton smaller. You can use 1 spammable ability now all the time and still get decent DPS since DoTs will be doing just slightly more DPS then instant cast abilities.

Runkorko · September 2019

Remove animation canceling

Juhasow wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

It's 2019. Just stop.

Horse stamina BUG was in game for like 5y and was REMOVED.
Why not animation cancer?
Because you have use of it ?
Right

Because horse bug was not described in level up advisor. Because there isnt whole group of sets build around horse bug. Because horse bug was not crucial part of what makes ESO fun for many people. Because horse bug was not officially allowed by developers before game even launched. Should I continue ?

Your horse bug comparision is kinda silly. You compare miniscule part of the game that was just hidden under carpet and not discussed at all due to how low importance it had on the game to the whole combat design that was discussed many times and developers made statements about it many many times calling it a feature and allowing to use it. Great reasoning. That way I am more right then You because I have more start on forum lol.

Also there is plenty of things that started as unintended features or bugs in games and are now crucial parts of gaming today because developers have seen potential in them. Could You for example call combo in any fighter game a bug these days ?

Learn to play instead of looking for excuses and forcing vague arguments into conversation. You had 5 years for that also.

You snit comment like "It's 2019. Just stop." and call me silly ?
Horse bug was a god send to all low/new levels/players exploring Cyro for shards or just doing regular pvp. Now they are like turtles. Ask them about the "fun" part.

Level up advisor? Like cmoon ....

Do you even animation cancer?
In wow i can rekt you for like under 5-10 seconds without any animation cancers. Same in most game i play, why we should have this here? To make the cluncky game even clunckier ? If ZoS can provide me stable FPS and no Cyro lag then maybe.
Animaton canseling is additional snit we dont need in combat. Bugged bar swap is enough.

Juhasow wrote: »

I think many people dont realize that ZoS with those changes in dragonhold is prety close with reaching the goal of making the difference between top and the botton smaller. You can use 1 spammable ability now all the time and still get decent DPS since DoTs will be doing just slightly more DPS then instant cast abilities.

Dude you have no idea what you are speaking

Just hop on PTS and see the tooltips/ if you are lazzy to do actual combat tes/

Dubhliam · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

Usually people that rant (yes, it's a rant) about animation cancelling are the ones that have absolutely no clue how AC works nor how to do proper DPS.

That being said, you might be an exception, I wouldn't know.

From experience, and ESO Logs (thank you ZoS for this!!!) approx. 1% of people actually animation cancel in PvE trial environment.

And that is purely because it doesn't provide enough advantage for the effort.

Vapirko · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

For the 1000000000000000000000000 time it’s an intended mechanic that has been endorsed by ZOS. Go search the many threads about it. Ffs.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · September 2019

Keep animation canceling but change/update some things about it

Juhasow wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

the light attack side needs to be fix, the big issue with dps difference between top and bottom is that 30% maybe even more of the population light attacks dont always go of

Dont worry. It's going to change in new update. I think many people dont realize that ZoS with those changes in dragonhold is prety close with reaching the goal of making the difference between top and the botton smaller. You can use 1 spammable ability now all the time and still get decent DPS since DoTs will be doing just slightly more DPS then instant cast abilities.

actual i have been on pts and light attacks dont always go of so no difference there lost 25k dps on build thats on live now