Imperial city event - ZoS's chance to cater to the dwindling PvP community with QoL changes to IC

React · August 2018

The imperial city event was just announced via news post on the official ESO website. With this event, ZoS has discounted a 3 year old DLC by only 50%. While this may seem like a "deal" to the average person, the imperial city DLC should in fact be made base game, or be reduced to a minuscule price that can be afforded with the free crowns on a fresh account (i.e 100 crowns). Imperial city is a PvP zone/dlc where you find almost no actual PvP anymore. This is due to a lack of incentive to do anything but PvE content in IC, the lack of the ability to travel straight in to IC from the campaign menu, and the fact that non-eso+ members do not have access to the content with the base game, despite it being part of cyrodiil.

While simply adding the content to the base game would create a massive resurgence in population for IC, it is time for the city to recieve some updates to it's content, objectives, and incentives. I've got a few simple suggestions here that could achieve these goals with minimum effort from ZoS's development team.

Allow players to respawn on any district, apart from flagged districts that their respective alliance owns. This will allow for a more rapidly changing district ownership pattern, which in turn will keep the PvP flowing, instead of just causing it to die off when players no longer have a district respawn option. At the same time, the inability to respawn on a flagged district owned by your alliance will function as a further measure to prevent the district ownership from stagnating as nothing can be flipped.
Add PvP incentives. Players should receive a base amount of tel var for killing other players - even if the other players do not actually have tel var on them. This would require a diminishing returns effect similar to AP - where a player who has just died no longer has any "base tel var value". Instead of slowly diminishing each death like AP, the base tel var value should diminish to 0 after a death, and remain that way for a set 2.5-5 minutes, when it rises back up to full instantly. This base value could be in the range of 500 tel var, and would be divided similar to how player's carried tel-var is divided among every player that contributed to killing them. EDIT: This suggestion would have to be unaffected by any tel var modifiers available such as district ownership, carried tel var, and double tel var events to avoid having it become abuse-able.
Add an AP & perhaps a tel var modifier to the sewers. While PvP is currently scarce in IC, any PvP you DO actually find is in the districts. Entering the sewers to look for players to kill often ends in a 30 minute jog through groups of ads prior to a campaign hop or a "get me unstuck". The sewer environment is one of the most interesting settings for PvP in eso - and it is truly saddening to not be able to experience it as such. A 1.5x AP/tel var modifier could help rejuvenate PvP in the sewers, where it is generally more dangerous to farm tel var due to roaming bosses and the lack of the ability to maintain ownership of 6 districts while farming.
Add more high-tier tel var cost rewards -both trade able and non trade able, such as polymorphs, costumes, personalities, etc. The xivkyn polymorphs held their value for quite a while, and were an incentive for people to be active in IC. Unfortunate, 3 years after release, most people who care about them have already gotten them. Adding a new set of "elite" tier rewards that are a mix of bound & tradeable would create incentive for completionists, traders, and PvP players to enter IC.
Allow players to que in to imperial city directly via the campaign menu, or travel from a home base transits shrine regardless of map position

There are plenty of other excellent ideas out there that have been suggested by the community, and it would be really nice to see some engagement on these topics from the ZoS staff.

Sandman929 · August 2018

Rebuild the bridges

LeifErickson · August 2018

Considering how many people care about the map, making IC matter to the campaign (assuming they made it base game) would help a ton as well.

Minno · August 2018

I agree with everything said here. Its time IC is a legit mode of PvP that actually means something.

Lylith · August 2018

i.c. event?

another round of dc monopolizing the middle for the duration, no doubt.

good ideas above, unfortunately, of late, zos hasn't been very receptive to good ideas regarding pvp, imho.

montiferus · August 2018

Agree with everything said. Kind of ridiculous IC isn't in the base game. The place is a damn ghost town as it is. Nobody plays it.

Stratforge · August 2018

These are all solid ideas. More sewers pvp would be excellent.

a_salty_pirate · August 2018

These are some great ideas, but the solution is far simpler IMO.

The entire concept of IC is high risk, high reward.
You have a ton of tel var? You earn a ton of tel var.
THAT is the entire idea behind IC.
The more you risk, the more you earn.
The solution is not to make Tel Var more valuable, because THAT is not the problem.

The problem is that this entire guiding principle, play style and theme of IC, does not apply to PvP.
The amount of Tel Var you get from PvPing is not affected in anyway by how much you're risking.
You get 50% of the players Tel Var regardless of how much you have on you.
You get the same reward regardless of what you risk.

Consequently ANY player that goes into IC that is planning on PvPing, NOT PvEing doesn't bring any Tel Var.
Why? Because there's no reason to.
This means that PvP in IC usually ends up being 2 or 3 fights against the same people, until they realise that they're getting no reward's for it because no one is dumb enough to risk any Tel Var.
And there is no other reward of any kind for fighting them.

The solution is actually really simple.
There already exists a multiplier that increases based on how much Tel Var you have that increases your reward from PvE.
All they need to do is this:
1X Multiplier takes 10% of a killed players Tel Var
2X Multiplier takes 20% of a killed players Tel Var
3X Multiplier takes 30% of a killed players Tel Var
4X Multiplier takes 50% of a killed players Tel Var (as it works now)

This means that if you want to get a reward for killing players you need to risk something.
Wanna run around with no Tel Var ganking players? Ok sure, but you'll barely get any Tel Var from it, and vice versa your target will barely lose anything.
Run around with 10k Tel Var and get into fights? NOW you're getting a reward from killing players.
Players that will also have a reason to risk bringing along Tel Var that you can take.

Pair this with your suggestion of adding a base value of Tel Var for killing players (250 at Base, but increases with the multiplier meaning you get 1000 Tel Var if you kill a target while you have the 4X multiplier would be my suggestion) but give it that short cooldown you talked about and you also deal with the problem that PvPing doesn't actually generate Tel Var, thus ensuring you don't get the economic feedback cycle where you're just trading Tel Var back and forth.

And what this does is not only add a REASON to actually PvP in IC, but you've also kept it true to the entire theme and playstyle of IC.
The more you risk, the better the reward.

AND EVEN BETTER ZOS, IT BASICALLY ONLY REQUIRES YOU TO CHANGE SOME NUMBERS AROUND INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING DIFFICULT.

There's already plenty of solid incentives for earning Tel Var, so I don't think there needs to be more rewards/items you can purchase with them. The alchemy boxes alone are incentive enough IMO.

As for re-spawning in districts, it would be fun, I long for the days when there would be massive fights back on forth between the clown car spawn point towers. But ultimately being able to just use the ladders to get to the district, sort of already does the job. But I agree, it would be nicer if you could spawn there to allow for faster paced action AND add a PvP related reason to capture the districts.

Last thing I'll say is about the inclusion of IC in the base game.
While I agree it would be far better if it was in the base game and just leave the dungeons as the DLC (Like all the other dungeon DLC's). I disagree that that it would have a major impact in revitalising the area.
My argument? Battleground's.
The added BG's to the base game and to me, it doesn't really feel like the population of BG's increased much at all (Apart from <50 BG's where there's lowbies AFKing for easy AP).

geonsocal · August 2018

excellent post OP...that definitely sums up the majority of what the pvp playerbase would hope to see in IC...

DKsUnite · August 2018

Personally, I would just make IC one instance. By that I mean, regardless of which campaign you came in through, you would all be in the same zone. This would make sure that there is always players in there and not what we have now where people go from 1 campaign to the other, looking to avoid fights so they can farm district bosses.

I would think that this alone would double or triple the population of IC just because they wouldn't be spread over 4 campaigns.

dtsharples · August 2018

DKsUnite wrote: »

Personally, I would just make IC one instance. By that I mean, regardless of which campaign you came in through, you would all be in the same zone. This would make sure that there is always players in there and not what we have now where people go from 1 campaign to the other, looking to avoid fights so they can farm district bosses.

I would think that this alone would double or triple the population of IC just because they wouldn't be spread over 4 campaigns.

I said the exact same a while back.
Just One IC / Sewers district for EU, and one for USA.
At least then you might actually see other people in there.

JackAshes · August 2018

dtsharples wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Personally, I would just make IC one instance. By that I mean, regardless of which campaign you came in through, you would all be in the same zone. This would make sure that there is always players in there and not what we have now where people go from 1 campaign to the other, looking to avoid fights so they can farm district bosses.

I would think that this alone would double or triple the population of IC just because they wouldn't be spread over 4 campaigns.

I said the exact same a while back.
Just One IC / Sewers district for EU, and one for USA.
At least then you might actually see other people in there.

I could get behind this idea but do it after the event. I would have to call hand check every 5 mins

TheNightflame · August 2018

+1 to it being inconvenient to get to, especially on new toons with no mount speed and when your alliance doesn't own its home keeps

Drako_Ei · August 2018

a_salty_pirate wrote: »

There already exists a multiplier that increases based on how much Tel Var you have that increases your reward from PvE.
All they need to do is this:
1X Multiplier takes 10% of a killed players Tel Var
2X Multiplier takes 20% of a killed players Tel Var
3X Multiplier takes 30% of a killed players Tel Var
4X Multiplier takes 50% of a killed players Tel Var (as it works now)

I fully support this... why nightblades can just come with 0 telvar, and kill someone and get 50% of them, they are risking nothing, however, i would make a little adjustment, make the 3x multiplier get 50% of a killed player's telvar, and 4x all of them, 100%!

idk · August 2018

First, IC isn’t part of the base game because it was clearly released after it was made clear any new meaningful content and zones would not be part of the base game. IC is a zone separate from Cyrodiil. The fact it’s within Cyrodiil isn’t relevant

Further, Irving OP suggests would make a significant difference with IC. Unless someone’s probides an actual reason to play IC it won’t sustain players interests. Telvar alone has proven to be insufficient.

Xsorus · September 2018

Put extremely high cost bags on the merchants that would give you a random item from any dungeon in the game...including VMA and VDSA....

So if you wanted to farm Telvar stones and possibly get lucky you could.

SmackNCheese · September 2018

I really like the idea of making one IC instance. This is because it’s too easy to peacefully farm IC at the moment with all the different campaigns. Have IC be a queue-able instance to bump up the population. And allow people who’s alliances may not be the best to efficiently visit the city.

My other idea would be to return the high risk high reward play style of IC. I like the idea of scaling bonus’ provided above, however an individual should be truly rewarded for their risk. 50% as a base loss, going all the way up to the previous 80% telvar loss. Carrying real incentive for gankblades to have 1k-10k on them at all times.

My final suggestion would be to return the xp given by sewer mobs to how it ice was, re-increase their spawn rate, buff them (to balance for the power creep since 501 cp). I leveled my first character to v16 in the sewers and it was a ton of fun running around PvPing in the halls, and I think these change s would incentivize players to return to the city.

tinythinker · September 2018

Yes, make it free and relevant:

Imperial City, Cyrodiil, and you (April 2018)
Cyrodiil/IC synergy, making them more fun and relevant to each other (March 2016)
Plus multiple comments scattered in various threads like this one about the sewers (December 2017)

Now, some of that in terms of details I might change, but the theme is the same: Make IC and overland Cyro affect each other in a fun synergy. Just like "gate keeps" and elder scrolls, or "ring keeps" and emperorship.

E L A B O R A T I O N

editing/writing in process...

Beyond the concerns about spawning and telvar people like to discuss, if IC and the overland campaign aren't linked (with new challenges and rewards), many players will still see IC as a nuisance or pointless. So sure, find ways to have more risk-reward, tel var stone gains, etc., but if IC goes base game think bigger.

The following sections give *example* of how this *could* be done. There are lots of other ways. But it's best to start with potential versions to get people thinking, so, here we go.

IC Districts and the Alliance War

1. Give (unique?) bonuses for each IC district that take effect when captured and that apply to members of your Alliance in overland Cyrodiil too. A good reason to go into IC to help your Alliance. These could be a redux of bonuses similar to number of keeps held, or new bonuses. They could be combat bonuses, bonuses affecting keep/resources, etc.

2. Give AW value to tel var stones -- access to unique siege weapons, or ways to upgrade keep walls, and so on. Something beyond a limited set of gear, material bags, etc. Maybe even access to a temporary (4 or 6 hour long) mounted speed buff purchased from a spellcaster for tel var. Things that increase its relevance to overland Cyro.

3. Give each of the current six Elder Scrolls a connection to particular district, so perhaps holding the right scroll and the right district gives a special bonus to all members of your alliance in your campaign, whether in IC or Cyro.

Those are the general suggestions -- link the key things in IC and Cyro. But what could this look like in a particular design theme? Here is one take on that.

You seize control of the Elven Gardens, which reduces snare effects by 40% because you also hold the Elder Scroll of Chim. As it is the third district your side are holding, you get a quick resurrect bonus. That means you can instantly rez in the district you die in regardless of who controls it while in IC, while in Cyro the rez at a forward camp delay is cut in half. You leave some allies to defend Elven Gardens while you go to speak to the tel var merchants. You purchase some coldfire siege for an exorbitant amount of tel var that had been take from the traitors of the imperial legions. Later, the coldfire siege is used to break the walls at Blue Road keep and the 40% snare reduction allows your forces to mitigate some of the worst effects of funneling through the breach. Unfortunately, no one from your faction stayed in Eleven Garden, and even though no other faction tried to claim it, if left unattended for an hour it reverts back to the daedric forces and becomes unclaimed, so the 40% snare reduction and quiz rez bonuses are lost.

IC Sewers and the Alliance War

4. Add a MacGuffin that spawns randomly in the IC sewers. That is, some object (or maybe two or three objects) to the IC sewers that give(s) a reward for being found, claimed, and either held or taken to a particular spot. Each such object would give a bonus affecting everyone in IC that is part of your faction. There is a time limit on getting it to one of a few spots in the sewers for an additional benefit. If you run out of time it randomly respawns. If you get it to one of the locations (enemies would know to try guess which one you would use to cut you off or camp it) you get the extra bonus and five minutes later it respawns in a random location.

This gives a bit of a battleground feel but for the entirety of the sewers. Gankers who don't care about the mini-game can still lurk and gank stragglers or what they see as groups of easy prey, but with the sewers busier some other player or group might come around the corner and spoil those plans...

5. Add a scoring system. Following up on #5, add a scoring system like there is for the overall Alliance War. So each hour the best score for IC, up top and sewers, gets a bonus that applies to overland. Or, simply incorporate IC districts and sewers into AW scoring campaign. The sewers mini-game buffs people in sewers but also in districts, and district capture (and bonus for holding districts each consecutive scoring period, which for IC may be 15 minutes rather than the hour for overland) tallies into the overall war campaign score.

Now when people go to IC they aren't a nuisance to overland pop totals for Cyro, they can be actively contributing the war effort, even inadvertantly, and for those who like the district capture/holding mini-game and the new proposed sewer mini-game (as well as gankers chasing both types), there is an expansion of gameplay type relevant to the overall Cyrodiil campaign.

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

montiferus wrote: »

Agree with everything said. Kind of ridiculous IC isn't in the base game. The place is a damn ghost town as it is. Nobody plays it.

Cause everytime one goes in there you have either farming pve zergs or ganking groups waiting in there. Nope im definetly not setting a foot inside that place.

Datthaw · September 2018

It's not complicated. Zos tried to mix pve and pvp, it failed. Pvp players either can't solo the bosses or just want to gank. Pve players are afraid to go because of the pvp gankers. It's a very very small number of people who actually solo farm IC and get good telvar.

Rohamad_Ali · September 2018

I wish Brian Wheeler would do something like this . IC needs a new direction .

gepe87 · September 2018

People spend 2200 on that bundle because of mount and skin...not for dlc. Altough its a fair price.

Rex-Umbra · September 2018

Rebuild bridges into city and make basegame

KingExecration · September 2018

How about since it is pvp oriented aswell if you’ve got a telvar multiplier, that said multiplier also increases ap gains. More risk, more reward as said above in a post.

Kanar · September 2018

A lot of great ideas in this thread. IC sewers is one of my favorite places in the game. Awesome ambience and art, and the risk of running into another player makes it exhilerating. However, I like it to be kind of desolate. I often will solo farm in there for fun and tel var, but if it was highly populated a lot of the ambience would drain away. The second or third time I run into a ball group incinerating players I would leave because it's boring to fight like that and there's no where to run down there; at most there's two paths to get to the center and there's lots of choke points. Nightblades would be the only solo option.

If the area was changed to make it popular, then the 4-8 man groups would come for easy kills. It would quickly become unsoloable, which is the opposite of how it is now.