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Imperial City, Cyrodiil, and you (and cheating, and something about Sorcs, and uhhh... nerf magDKs)

tinythinker
tinythinker
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MAKE THE IMPERIAL CITY SUBZONE RELEVANT TO THE ALLIANCE WAR.

This topic came up a lot when IC was announced, when it launched, and gets a little mention here and there every so often, but it requires a major change:

PLEASE ZOS ROLL THE IC DLC INTO THE BASEGAME.

I know some of you agree, some don't care, etc. But *if* Imperial City were part of the basic Elder Scrolls Online purchase it would no longer count as pay-to-win to make the zone relevant to Cyrodiil.

Yes, that also means bundling the two IC dungeons into the base game, but that's going to happen eventually anyway and there is more to be gained overall by moving the IC zone into full union with Cyrodiil sooner rather than later. Or leave them as DLC. Whatever.








OK, so that's the TL;DR summary but then there are the implications. I won't dredge up the old posts and comments about how to make IC relevant to Cyro (mine or anyone else's), but at present some people consider going to IC a drain on the war effort in Cyro because both zones share the same population cap.

Yet if there were strategic advantages to the Alliance War Campaign to capturing and holding particular districts and/or to holding a certain total number of districts this changes.

Now, factions have to decide their priorities: scrolls, keeps/outposts, or districts?

Plus, it lets people spread out more (some in Cyro, some in IC) to reduce lag while still letting them focus on Alliance War objectives.








How such a system is implemented, and whether the sewers should play a role, is up for discussion and debate. I've done posts, old and recent, on both the PvP and PvE elements of IC, but I want to hear *your* thoughts and ideas on how this could or should be done before I toss ought whatever new thoughts pop into my head. One thing to consider though is that it would be great if there were mutual feedback in some way between scrolls, keeps/outposts, and districts, so that none could be completely neglected. Like the three-way ouroboros for the old ESO logo -- A affects B which impacts C which influences A. Very dynamic.

If done even halfway well in terms of making the districts relevant to overland Cyrodiil, this could have a domino effect with more changes/buffs/attention given to both zones.



Edited by tinythinker on April 1, 2018 3:56PM
  • Joined ESO in March 2014 (PC-NA) yet always learning more about playing the game
  • Current skill level/level of enjoyment -- Cyrodiil (Siege/Defense): B+... Dueling/1vX: F... BGs: D-... Vet Dungeons: C-... DLC dungeons/trials: D+... Overland PvE: A-
  • Semi-retired wall o' text brick-layer on the ESO forums
  • *Lots* of Argonian characters. Most like to be known in game as Glides-Under-Starlight (EP lizard Dragonknight), Hrrska-Set (EP lizard Templar), Bentalliolous Rov (DC Breton Sorcerer), and Sparkles-At-Twilight (AD lizard Warden)
  • Also play FFXIV (on Faerie server) and WoW (on Dalaran server)
  • Have a great day!
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Personally, I'd rather just have a separate queue for Imperial City that's CP, No CP, and Below Level 50 so when I want to go to the Imperial City I don't have to wait in the campaign queue and experience the thrilling horse riding simulator from my nearest keep.
  • tinythinker
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    Personally, I'd rather just have a separate queue for Imperial City that's CP, No CP, and Below Level 50 so when I want to go to the Imperial City I don't have to wait in the campaign queue and experience the thrilling horse riding simulator from my nearest keep.

    That can happen regardless of whether the two zones are implemented, so I've got no issue with that, but integrating IC into the Alliance War would still make so many opportunities to do more with AvAvA.
    • Joined ESO in March 2014 (PC-NA) yet always learning more about playing the game
    • Current skill level/level of enjoyment -- Cyrodiil (Siege/Defense): B+... Dueling/1vX: F... BGs: D-... Vet Dungeons: C-... DLC dungeons/trials: D+... Overland PvE: A-
    • Semi-retired wall o' text brick-layer on the ESO forums
    • *Lots* of Argonian characters. Most like to be known in game as Glides-Under-Starlight (EP lizard Dragonknight), Hrrska-Set (EP lizard Templar), Bentalliolous Rov (DC Breton Sorcerer), and Sparkles-At-Twilight (AD lizard Warden)
    • Also play FFXIV (on Faerie server) and WoW (on Dalaran server)
    • Have a great day!
  • ToRelax
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    They could still restrict access to IC dungeons and keep them as a dungeon DLC.
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    They could still restrict access to IC dungeons and keep them as a dungeon DLC.

    Yup.
    • Joined ESO in March 2014 (PC-NA) yet always learning more about playing the game
    • Current skill level/level of enjoyment -- Cyrodiil (Siege/Defense): B+... Dueling/1vX: F... BGs: D-... Vet Dungeons: C-... DLC dungeons/trials: D+... Overland PvE: A-
    • Semi-retired wall o' text brick-layer on the ESO forums
    • *Lots* of Argonian characters. Most like to be known in game as Glides-Under-Starlight (EP lizard Dragonknight), Hrrska-Set (EP lizard Templar), Bentalliolous Rov (DC Breton Sorcerer), and Sparkles-At-Twilight (AD lizard Warden)
    • Also play FFXIV (on Faerie server) and WoW (on Dalaran server)
    • Have a great day!
  • Marcus684
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    Make IC relevant to the Alliance War. There’s 6 districts and 6 emp keeps. Create an underground passageway between each emp keep and an IC district that would allow enemies to get inside the enemy-held keep if they capture the corresponding IC district. That’d liven things up.
  • Derra
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    They could still restrict access to IC dungeons and keep them as a dungeon DLC.

    Yup.

    Connect districts to the mainland via bridges. Keep dungeons + sewers as DLC.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - Grand Overlord - Spotless Dro-m'Athra Destroyer pre one Tamriel
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - Grand Overlord
    ... - DC - NB

  • ezeepeezee
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    Marcus684 wrote: »
    Make IC relevant to the Alliance War. There’s 6 districts and 6 emp keeps. Create an underground passageway between each emp keep and an IC district that would allow enemies to get inside the enemy-held keep if they capture the corresponding IC district. That’d liven things up.
    Derra wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    They could still restrict access to IC dungeons and keep them as a dungeon DLC.

    Yup.

    Connect districts to the mainland via bridges. Keep dungeons + sewers as DLC.

    I would combine these two, but sewers are part of base game. Sewers now have access points to Emp keeps, so that fighting occurs in the sewers to prevent entry into the keeps. Maybe not directly into the keeps, just at some (or several, to prevent spawn camping) location near the keep.
  • tinythinker
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    From today's announcement:
    {M}oving forward, if you purchase this new base game—The Elder Scrolls Online, not The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited—it will include the Morrowind Chapter.

    With this in mind, in order to provide more options for The Elder Scrolls Online's community, we're opening PvP Battlegrounds access to all ESO players and updating how you can acquire Morrowind content and its different features.

    So... please go that next step -- make the Imperial City zone accessible to all players and weave it into the Alliance War.
    Edited by tinythinker on April 6, 2018 3:30PM
    • Joined ESO in March 2014 (PC-NA) yet always learning more about playing the game
    • Current skill level/level of enjoyment -- Cyrodiil (Siege/Defense): B+... Dueling/1vX: F... BGs: D-... Vet Dungeons: C-... DLC dungeons/trials: D+... Overland PvE: A-
    • Semi-retired wall o' text brick-layer on the ESO forums
    • *Lots* of Argonian characters. Most like to be known in game as Glides-Under-Starlight (EP lizard Dragonknight), Hrrska-Set (EP lizard Templar), Bentalliolous Rov (DC Breton Sorcerer), and Sparkles-At-Twilight (AD lizard Warden)
    • Also play FFXIV (on Faerie server) and WoW (on Dalaran server)
    • Have a great day!
  • JackAshes
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    Amen Brother!
  • NBrookus
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    ezeepeezee wrote: »
    Marcus684 wrote: »
    Make IC relevant to the Alliance War. There’s 6 districts and 6 emp keeps. Create an underground passageway between each emp keep and an IC district that would allow enemies to get inside the enemy-held keep if they capture the corresponding IC district. That’d liven things up.
    Derra wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    They could still restrict access to IC dungeons and keep them as a dungeon DLC.

    Yup.

    Connect districts to the mainland via bridges. Keep dungeons + sewers as DLC.

    I would combine these two, but sewers are part of base game. Sewers now have access points to Emp keeps, so that fighting occurs in the sewers to prevent entry into the keeps. Maybe not directly into the keeps, just at some (or several, to prevent spawn camping) location near the keep.

    Not directly into the keeps, but yes, nearby. At the resources. Or at one of several random spots in the keep radius.
    AND connect the bridges.

    I am have in the past been for removing IC from Cyrodiil's queues, but this I could get behind as an alternative. It would make the sewers more relevant overall.
    PC NA
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka NB, Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Orc Stamina Warden
    Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Argonian Magicka Templar, Orc Stamina DK, Bosmer Stamina NB, Nord Stamina Warden
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka Sorcerer
  • KRBMMO
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    It seems logical that an Emperor cannot be crowned unless they control the capital city.

    But unfortunately I think they've just stopped putting development resources into IC. There would have to be a revenue model to generate money from any costs associated with a major overhaul of Cyrodil and IC.
  • UppGRAYxDD
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    How about something simple like if a faction controls all the sewer flags they can choose which door to exit the sewers into cyrodil, creating a shortcut to enemy controlled keeps. I know that this would need to come with possibly increasing keep fortification stats as to not make keep flipping too easy as it currently is...
    "Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    KRBMMO wrote: »
    It seems logical that an Emperor cannot be crowned unless they control the capital city.

    But unfortunately I think they've just stopped putting development resources into IC. There would have to be a revenue model to generate money from any costs associated with a major overhaul of Cyrodil and IC.

    Revenue model?

    Sure.

    Upgradable skins/costumes/mounts/etc.

    1. Have in-game rewards and cash shops like costumes, skins, mounts, etc. Add more as you like, maybe something Undaunted for PvE. Already have an Alliance-specific mount, costume, tattoos, etc. As per other posts and comments, add new skins for siege and keeps/outposts. These aren't for the Crown Store, just base-game to give distinction/Alliance pride/flavor.

    2. Add a system whereby ranking up "unlocks" different versions of costumes, mounts, etc. associated with Alliance, Undaunted, Mages Guild, etc. Buy the Alliance mount and costume in the Crown Store for example, then as you gain a new rank set (from stripes to diamonds, from diamonds to moons, etc), you can go to the outfit station and choose the new appearances you've unlocked. Dye them as you like. Just like people will do for ranking up in PvE NPC guilds and so on.

    3. Make Imperial City a part of the Alliance War, so that the three main objectives interact somehow. Like keeps --(have some effect on--> districts --> scrolls --> keeps-->etc., so that being in IC is part of participating in the war effort and more people go there as part of AvAvA. Expanding and revitalizing the Alliance war with assets already in the game makes ESO more appealing to PvPers who might otherwise pass, try it and leave, or not come back after trying it previously (revenue positive).

    4. People want to get the cool new appearances, so they buy stuff in the cash shop and level it up in game, including the awesome upgrades for existing and new Alliance-specific gear. The Alliance War is more interesting/expanded so more people play AvAvA, thus more people buy stuff in the cash shop... (repeat)
    Edited by tinythinker on April 7, 2018 7:14PM
    • Joined ESO in March 2014 (PC-NA) yet always learning more about playing the game
    • Current skill level/level of enjoyment -- Cyrodiil (Siege/Defense): B+... Dueling/1vX: F... BGs: D-... Vet Dungeons: C-... DLC dungeons/trials: D+... Overland PvE: A-
    • Semi-retired wall o' text brick-layer on the ESO forums
    • *Lots* of Argonian characters. Most like to be known in game as Glides-Under-Starlight (EP lizard Dragonknight), Hrrska-Set (EP lizard Templar), Bentalliolous Rov (DC Breton Sorcerer), and Sparkles-At-Twilight (AD lizard Warden)
    • Also play FFXIV (on Faerie server) and WoW (on Dalaran server)
    • Have a great day!
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    UppGRAYxDD wrote: »
    How about something simple like if a faction controls all the sewer flags they can choose which door to exit the sewers into cyrodil, creating a shortcut to enemy controlled keeps. I know that this would need to come with possibly increasing keep fortification stats as to not make keep flipping too easy as it currently is...

    That's definitely something that would change things up, they might start small like that or add such an idea to a larger revamp.
    • Joined ESO in March 2014 (PC-NA) yet always learning more about playing the game
    • Current skill level/level of enjoyment -- Cyrodiil (Siege/Defense): B+... Dueling/1vX: F... BGs: D-... Vet Dungeons: C-... DLC dungeons/trials: D+... Overland PvE: A-
    • Semi-retired wall o' text brick-layer on the ESO forums
    • *Lots* of Argonian characters. Most like to be known in game as Glides-Under-Starlight (EP lizard Dragonknight), Hrrska-Set (EP lizard Templar), Bentalliolous Rov (DC Breton Sorcerer), and Sparkles-At-Twilight (AD lizard Warden)
    • Also play FFXIV (on Faerie server) and WoW (on Dalaran server)
    • Have a great day!
  • ToRelax
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    KRBMMO wrote: »
    It seems logical that an Emperor cannot be crowned unless they control the capital city.

    [...]

    With WGT being turned into a PvE dungeon, I don't really see the point.
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • VaranisArano
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    If you make IC a part of emperorship, you have to deal with the lack of challenge of capturing the districts.

    A district flag has 3 alliance guards.
    A Cyrodiil resource has 10+ guards plus workers.
    A Cyrodiil keep has (I'm not of the exact number for the whole keep) roughly 30 guards that a raid has to deal with during pure PVDoor.

    Adding IC districts as they are to emperorship is far less difficult even than capturing a single emp keep. I do not think it would be acceptable to add the Districts to the emperorship reauirements at their current level of low difficulty of capture.

    However, beefing up the difficulty of taking the districts to account for the fact that a prospective emperor will bring a zerg to grab the districts also makes it harder for solo/small scale play in the Districts. It would be a balancing act.
  • Ixtyr
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    FYI, this was brought up and lobbied hard for when there were a few of us on-site at ZOS last week. My impression was that it's a distinct possibility, but no timeline and also no hard commitment to making it happen. My outlook is more positive, though, than it was before we talked about it.

    Can't say much more than that.
    Ixtyr Falavir - Bosmer Nightblade - Daggerfall Covenant
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  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    Ixtyr wrote: »
    FYI, this was brought up and lobbied hard for when there were a few of us on-site at ZOS last week. My impression was that it's a distinct possibility, but no timeline and also no hard commitment to making it happen. My outlook is more positive, though, than it was before we talked about it.

    Can't say much more than that.

    Awesome!

    Thanks for the info.
    • Joined ESO in March 2014 (PC-NA) yet always learning more about playing the game
    • Current skill level/level of enjoyment -- Cyrodiil (Siege/Defense): B+... Dueling/1vX: F... BGs: D-... Vet Dungeons: C-... DLC dungeons/trials: D+... Overland PvE: A-
    • Semi-retired wall o' text brick-layer on the ESO forums
    • *Lots* of Argonian characters. Most like to be known in game as Glides-Under-Starlight (EP lizard Dragonknight), Hrrska-Set (EP lizard Templar), Bentalliolous Rov (DC Breton Sorcerer), and Sparkles-At-Twilight (AD lizard Warden)
    • Also play FFXIV (on Faerie server) and WoW (on Dalaran server)
    • Have a great day!
  • KRBMMO
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    KRBMMO wrote: »
    It seems logical that an Emperor cannot be crowned unless they control the capital city.

    [...]

    With WGT being turned into a PvE dungeon, I don't really see the point.

    What an interesting idea - WGT as a PvP area. Could be fun but the qeue would be long as hell.
  • daniel.13b16_ESO
    About time
  • Dreyloch
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    Make the trash mobs much harder like they were when it first came out. I used to test builds just goin in solo and seeing what I could take on. The NPC's should almost be a faction by themselves, and shouldn't be so easily killable. Even Molag was solo'd by a few hardcore PVE'ers. It adds an extra element to fight if you get agro.

    I originally thought there was going to be access out the other sides to attack emp keeps where we'd battle in the sewers to get thru. You'd have to own all 6 districts before hand though, with a non-attack area to prevent door camping. Like spawning in the districts is now. Guess I was way off on that.
    "The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"
  • Katahdin
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    Keep them together but make holding IC districts count toward the overall Cyrodiil score but not for emperor.

    Anyone that thinks the 10 or so people in IC for any given faction really makes a difference in the overland fight is delusional
    Edited by Katahdin on May 1, 2018 5:06PM
    Beta tester November 2013
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    Katahdin wrote: »
    Keep them together but make holding IC districts count toward the overall Cyrodiil score but not for emperor.

    Anyone that thinks the 10 or so people in IC for any given faction really makes a difference in the overland fight is delusional

    If there was some buff, significant score change, etc., for holding districts more people would be there. The question is how to integrate the two so that it is fun and adds a new dimension or two to game play.
    • Joined ESO in March 2014 (PC-NA) yet always learning more about playing the game
    • Current skill level/level of enjoyment -- Cyrodiil (Siege/Defense): B+... Dueling/1vX: F... BGs: D-... Vet Dungeons: C-... DLC dungeons/trials: D+... Overland PvE: A-
    • Semi-retired wall o' text brick-layer on the ESO forums
    • *Lots* of Argonian characters. Most like to be known in game as Glides-Under-Starlight (EP lizard Dragonknight), Hrrska-Set (EP lizard Templar), Bentalliolous Rov (DC Breton Sorcerer), and Sparkles-At-Twilight (AD lizard Warden)
    • Also play FFXIV (on Faerie server) and WoW (on Dalaran server)
    • Have a great day!
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