The first rule of testing a system is to make only one change to the system and test it. If you change more than one thing, then what is the source of the delta in the results? Anything they could have done to prevent this might have skewed the results.

where was it announced that no disciplinary action would be taken?

L2Pissue wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

where was it announced that no disciplinary action would be taken?

its not an exploit to begin with.

is that officially stated?

I mean, ap farming is against hte ToS.

Nestor wrote: »

The first rule of testing a system is to make only one change to the system and test it. If you change more than one thing, then what is the source of the delta in the results? Anything they could have done to prevent this might have skewed the results.

Or likely because in the grand scheme of things, AP is worth as much as farming Garnets and they knew it. So why bother dedicating man hours to fix exploiting a useless currency?

They should have made AP the TEL var system. If you die, you can lose what's on you. Give buffs/stats based on the modifier to encourage keeping AP. Then scale it all back numerically so you don't need 200k to purchase useless motifs.

This way if these groups exploited again, you can bomb them and reap the rewards punishing them for pvd gameplay.

Beesting wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Should have at least ban first 5 on the scorebord and people that got emp on haderus. Would be only fair.

I mean the pve-ers got homestead, so i gathered that this event was zeni's attempt to make the pvp crowd happy.

The fact that ZOS isn't going to do a damn thing about a PVP exploit has actually done the opposite to the PVP community. We're mad and rightfully so.

Next time there's a PVE exploit, I may just go do a little roleplaying.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @Wrobel

Minno wrote: »

They should have made AP the TEL var system. If you die, you can lose what's on you. Give buffs/stats based on the modifier to encourage keeping AP. Then scale it all back numerically so you don't need 200k to purchase useless motifs.

Oh good Akatosh no. You know how hard "name" players would get zerged? They already do to some extent, but if there was something to lose by attacking someone with a reputation for being a good player, no one would. They would only get zerged by large groups wanting to get their AP. Meanwhile cheaters would prosper even more.

Sandman929 wrote: »

Calls for the ban-hammer are a little extreme. The higher AP gains from capturing keeps/resources were intentionally added by ZOS to promote objective based play. It's an intended game mechanic.
The fact that ZOS didn't add anything to prevent players from flipping keeps/outposts over and over again is yet another example of how little thought is put into changes that they implement, and perhaps an example of the developers astounding naivete when it comes to expectations that the player base will police itself.
The added stupidity of a Double AP event immediately after adding this easily exploitable game mechanic....well....there are no words for that kind of stupidity.

xblackroxe wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

I know it won't happen (not desired, technically not trivial), but I'd be really glad if the AP got adjusted to the new values in retrospect. Would barely hit anyone who played normally but really spit in the soup of the most extreme exploiters.

But where was the exploit? @BB Mine sure and people lost their AP for that but not @bleakers

ZOS intended outposts to give 6k AP per tick.

So where is the exploit? I just can't see it.

Nestor wrote: »

The first rule of testing a system is to make only one change to the system and test it. If you change more than one thing, then what is the source of the delta in the results? Anything they could have done to prevent this might have skewed the results.

In other words, bringing a double AP week for flipping objectives in Cyrodiil a few weeks after increasing the AP gain for capturing objectives with the Homestead patch was a must and the one and only ultimate way to figure out the latency issues in Cyrodiil.

Doubling APs given to capture objectives was also the only way to convince players to fight each other. Doubling APs for killing and healing each other only definitely wasn't enough.

Finally, the only reason why they didn't scale the AP gain for capturing objectives off the level (1-5) of the objective itself was to not skew over the results. That make sense. Thanks for that brilliant explanation.

Since when the form is more important over the substance? Do you recognize a good player from the title he has over his head or from what he concretely and substantially does during his game activity?

I recognize a good player by his gameplay. Not certainly by a badge that he has on one of his characters.

Imo, the farm was totally legit and ZoS knew it would happen and they went along with it anyway. I don't see a reason to punish those players, even though I do think it's stupid that ranks are now even more meaningless and they were basically handed out for free (except for the electricity bill for running your computer 24/7). It's not exactly fair play, but it isn't against any given rules.
But in theory, a lot of people could have been banned for using macros.

No one who exploited Black Boot Mine in EU got banned or something like that and you want them to rollback the ranks and the AP for the players who flipped outpost in a legit way?There were dozens of threads saying the new ticks are broken but they didn't give a damn about same goes for the double AP event.No reactions nothing,people abused a legit mechanic that's all.

VoiDGhOs7 wrote: »

No one who exploited Black Boot Mine in EU got banned or something like that and you want them to rollback the ranks and the AP for the players who flipped outpost in a legit way?There were dozens of threads saying the new ticks are broken but they didn't give a damn about same goes for the double AP event.No reactions nothing,people abused a legit mechanic that's all.

Sadly this is the truth.

I reported it all to ZOS in the hopes they would act to fix it before they doubled the AP but they really were not interested in any of this. Brian saw the thread and Gina had it all laid out in a mail for her, nothing happened.

Honestly now I just regret not doing it, next thing like this which isn't an exploit but does ruin the game I will take advantage of I think. ZOS have told me it's fine to do so with their inactions again.

Chair wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

Any player that became grand overlol without using eye of potato must be banned permanently

Grand overlol rank is meant exclusively for nightblade bombers and/or people who participate in 1 pixel stack on crown battles

If you dont make the whole factions in the campaign on 500 ping, then you dont deserve to be grand overlol, end of story

@L2Pissue nice video, it inspired me to make this reply.

Ofc you would say that after you spam lighting heavy on people 30vs1 gg and you stayed at bleakers all week hush o/

From my bleakers-vid , huehue

This thing was not an exploit just a badly considered change to the game mechanics that people chose to use to gain AP. It was open to all players to do or not do as they chose, no-one was excluded, it did not require any hacks or bugs...

This was no worse in moral terms than other things we have seen like guilds boosting emp by logging in on other alliances and suiciding, players logging into other alliances and spying in zone chat, players logging in to other alliances to run scrolls back to their 'home' alliance or even the people in the early days that would stand safely our of combat dropping the occasional heal when it was the best way to leech combat ticks.

All those and others are certainly cheesy but all have been accepted by the devs as part of the meta of PvP because the players have not actually cheated or exploited a bug.

Judging by these past standards this is similar in kind, the only real difference is the sheer quantity of AP someone willing to tolerate the mindless tedium of it could accumulate in a week.

Rather than shouting at each other and blaming players for cooperating it would make more sense to focus on encouraging ZOS to ensure that the game systems are reworked to make this type of play unrewarding so that actually fighting for objectives is more rewarding than flipping a single one...

I am no game designer but the reduction in outpost AP is a good first step in this... maybe keep captures should be rewarded better based on whether it is a home or enemy keep, how many keeps your alliance owns or some other formula that encourages active campaign play... equally maybe defense rewards rise according to how desperate the situation has become for the alliance in question...

I'm guessing any system can be subject to being gamed by the players as has happened with this double AP thing but maybe ZOS can improve the design bit by bit to ensure that nothing as obviously gameable as this happens again.

I suppose the only thing I would add is that if there is evidence of players being AFK (more than for nature breaks, the odd phone call or drink top ups) using macros to gain their double AP while off doing something else then that is a whole different question and, to me, would then fall into the cheating/exploiting area.