SublimeSparo wrote: »

Cleared on all classes, stam and magic
Cleared in 1st person
Cleared using only heavy attacks.

Still haven't got any BiS weapons, not a single bloody one

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

This is the one piece of content that requires direct builds specifically for it to counter some of it's mechanics. In many cases, those mechanics are absolute garbage. Random mines on arena 7. The traps on Arena 2. They serve no purpose other than making sustained fights difficult, leading into reason 2.

You don't need specific builds to survive stages 2 and 7. The plants on stage 7 are mostly a test of situational awareness and reaction. I died to them all the time at first, and now I rarely touch them. They can still pose problems and the can cause unfair deaths because they are random and sometimes spawn at the worst time in the worst place, but most runs, I have no problems avoiding them.

For stage 2, the blades are a nuisance, easily countered with careful movement and some self-heals. You don't need a specific build for it--I've beaten stage 2 on every one of my characters, each with a different build.

The kind of build you need for vMA is the kind of build you need for any kind of solo content--running dungeons solo (or in a group so bad and in need of so much carrying that you're effectively soloing), taking down world bosses solo or duo, running around in Craglorn prior to the OT nerfs, or engaging in solo or small-scale PvP. You need self-healing. You need to be self-sufficient in resource sustain. And you need to be reasonably survivable while also being able to dish out damage. These are not outlandish or exotic requirements, and none of it requires some sort of extraordinary build.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Two. It's a DPS race. That's what it is, a single player DPS race. It's designed as a single player trial, and this does not mesh well with endurance tests. It basicly just ammounts to 'can you kill it before it and the mechanics kill you?' It's why so many Maelstrom setups use twohanded, the burst damage is the best way of accomplishing it.

Oh, and a freebie I've allready stated. Are you a tank or healer? Go *** yourself because your never geting those weapons.

You evidently haven't even tried vMA, then (esp. that comment about 2-handers; dual-wield and bow is what stamina players predominately use in vMA). The DPS-burn strategy is what people do after they've cleared the arena countless times, have every single mob spawn memorized, and can do the arena with their eyes close (figuratively). These are the people making the shiny videos and dominating the leaderboards, but they are few in number.

For most people, the arena is very much an endurance test. And this is especially true for anyone working on their first clear. DPS-burn isn't the only viable strategy. In fact, it's a strategy that is very much non-viable for most players.

There is no "right" build or strategy for vMA, and there are many ways of making it work. Of course, if you're running vMA competitively and shooting for record times, then you will require specific builds and specific strategies. But why are you judging the arena on what a small subset of people do?

Here is a video of someone completing vMA for his first time on a magicka DK, wearing heavy armor and using sword-and-shield on both bars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-cf2Erf5GY

As for me, my first time clearing vMA, my front bar was a Restoration Staff, and my back bar was Sword-and-Shield. Also, speaking as a tank (I spend almost as much time as a tank in this game as I do as a DPS; I have 4 different champion-rank characters that I can tank on), my only tank-related complaint about Maelstrom is that the tank weapon is garbage (the restoration staff is pretty useless too). Just because you're a tank doesn't mean you never DPS--what do you do when you solo-quest? Taunt your enemies to death? Any well-rounded tank should have a DPS gearset and should have no problems in vMA.

Maybe you should actually try the content before playing pundit.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I hate it on a fundemental design level and this is not what I want from singleplayer content.

You seem to want solo content that isn't solo content. Tanks and healers are support roles. They make absolutely no sense outside of group content. The objective of any combat game--not just ESO--is to kill the enemy. In group content, the support roles help others kill. In solo content, they have to do the killing themselves. That's just the way it is. If you don't like that--and I personally know many tanks and healers who don't--that's fine, just stick to group content. However, this notion that you should still have group support roles in solo content is utterly nonsensical.

Dubhliam wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I think it's the worst designed content in the entire game...

Could you please elaborate more on this?

Certainly. Two aspects of it annoy the crap out of me.

One. Mechanics and building. This is the one piece of content that requires direct builds specifically for it to counter some of it's mechanics. In many cases, those mechanics are absolute garbage. Random mines on arena 7. The traps on Arena 2. They serve no purpose other than making sustained fights difficult, leading into reason 2.

Two. It's a DPS race. That's what it is, a single player DPS race. It's designed as a single player trial, and this does not mesh well with endurance tests. It basicly just ammounts to 'can you kill it before it and the mechanics kill you?' It's why so many Maelstrom setups use twohanded, the burst damage is the best way of accomplishing it.

Oh, and a freebie I've allready stated. Are you a tank or healer? Go *** yourself because your never geting those weapons.

It can be as easy the second or third time around all it likes, but I hate it on a fundemental design level and this is not what I want from singleplayer content. I want content that does not punish tanks for existing. Or healers for that matter, dangling rewards for us that we will never be able to get. (Yes, I know Deltia has a tank build that completes Maelstrom. That was only possible recently.) @CarbonX

I main a DK magicka tank.
Tanking is a group role, it serves no purpose to tank solo.

Therefore I went in as a light armor magicka DK with destro/resto.

You need to flush this "I want to beat it the way I want" mentality down the toilet.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

This is the one piece of content that requires direct builds specifically for it to counter some of it's mechanics. In many cases, those mechanics are absolute garbage. Random mines on arena 7. The traps on Arena 2. They serve no purpose other than making sustained fights difficult, leading into reason 2.

You don't need specific builds to survive stages 2 and 7. The plants on stage 7 are mostly a test of situational awareness and reaction. I died to them all the time at first, and now I rarely touch them. They can still pose problems and the can cause unfair deaths because they are random and sometimes spawn at the worst time in the worst place, but most runs, I have no problems avoiding them.

For stage 2, the blades are a nuisance, easily countered with careful movement and some self-heals. You don't need a specific build for it--I've beaten stage 2 on every one of my characters, each with a different build.

The kind of build you need for vMA is the kind of build you need for any kind of solo content--running dungeons solo (or in a group so bad and in need of so much carrying that you're effectively soloing), taking down world bosses solo or duo, running around in Craglorn prior to the OT nerfs, or engaging in solo or small-scale PvP. You need self-healing. You need to be self-sufficient in resource sustain. And you need to be reasonably survivable while also being able to dish out damage. These are not outlandish or exotic requirements, and none of it requires some sort of extraordinary build.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Two. It's a DPS race. That's what it is, a single player DPS race. It's designed as a single player trial, and this does not mesh well with endurance tests. It basicly just ammounts to 'can you kill it before it and the mechanics kill you?' It's why so many Maelstrom setups use twohanded, the burst damage is the best way of accomplishing it.

Oh, and a freebie I've allready stated. Are you a tank or healer? Go *** yourself because your never geting those weapons.

You evidently haven't even tried vMA, then (esp. that comment about 2-handers; dual-wield and bow is what stamina players predominately use in vMA). The DPS-burn strategy is what people do after they've cleared the arena countless times, have every single mob spawn memorized, and can do the arena with their eyes close (figuratively). These are the people making the shiny videos and dominating the leaderboards, but they are few in number.

For most people, the arena is very much an endurance test. And this is especially true for anyone working on their first clear. DPS-burn isn't the only viable strategy. In fact, it's a strategy that is very much non-viable for most players.

There is no "right" build or strategy for vMA, and there are many ways of making it work. Of course, if you're running vMA competitively and shooting for record times, then you will require specific builds and specific strategies. But why are you judging the arena on what a small subset of people do?

Here is a video of someone completing vMA for his first time on a magicka DK, wearing heavy armor and using sword-and-shield on both bars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-cf2Erf5GY

As for me, my first time clearing vMA, my front bar was a Restoration Staff, and my back bar was Sword-and-Shield. Also, speaking as a tank (I spend almost as much time as a tank in this game as I do as a DPS; I have 4 different champion-rank characters that I can tank on), my only tank-related complaint about Maelstrom is that the tank weapon is garbage (the restoration staff is pretty useless too). Just because you're a tank doesn't mean you never DPS--what do you do when you solo-quest? Taunt your enemies to death? Any well-rounded tank should have a DPS gearset and should have no problems in vMA.

Maybe you should actually try the content before playing pundit.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I hate it on a fundemental design level and this is not what I want from singleplayer content.

You seem to want solo content that isn't solo content. Tanks and healers are support roles. They make absolutely no sense outside of group content. The objective of any combat game--not just ESO--is to kill the enemy. In group content, the support roles help others kill. In solo content, they have to do the killing themselves. That's just the way it is. If you don't like that--and I personally know many tanks and healers who don't--that's fine, just stick to group content. However, this notion that you should still have group support roles in solo content is utterly nonsensical.

I stand by my statements. A better question is why you seemingly want opinions, then want people to shut up after asking for said opinions.

I've completed VMA normal, I have a DPS toon I've tried it with, so your comments about 'trying the content' are absolutely false.

The DPS race comments are still valid. Because it is. You can dress it up as mechanical learning but even if you took those out and kept Mob damage the same it would still be a test of 'can you kill it before it kills you'. The comments about twohanders were made after looking at numerous VMA setups. Yes Duel wield and bow is still the meta. But there are a few who still use twohander for it's burst damage.

The first part I can sum up in one word: Vigor. It's a perfect example of the 'non choice' you seem to believe in. Yes, you need a build that can survive, and there are only a few ways to reasonibly do that. Vigor is one of them for stam DPS. The other is to roll magicka DPS. (Also, I didn't say you need specific builds to survive stage two and seven. I said you need a specific type of build to clear VMA. Maybe I wasn't clear on that.)

And the final point, to the tanks and healers, I run a tank build. I run a extremely agressive tank build that is solo friendly and viable in all group content exept for trials. I had to fight hard to make it that way, because I hate block tanking which is the only thing that's really viable at the moment exept for Saptanking and a few other setups. So dont give me that crap about how I need to stick to group content.

Even if we are taking out the 'Rolls" bit out, VMA is trash. It's mechanics are annoying, and the content is annoying.(To me, and some others.) I know one man who has VMA weapons in *** traits, has got a no death run under his belt, and will never go there ever again. Why? He dosent enjoy it. Why does he not enjoy it? Because it's far too much trouble for far too little reward. I personally never aspire to clear it because even my DPS, dosent need it.

VMA is for the people who want a challenge. That's fine. I dont necessarily agree with how that challenge was achieved, but that's fine if that's what people want. But dont tell me to go play the content when I dont agree with you on it's worth, because my opinions were -based- on my experiences with the content.

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The DPS race comments are still valid. Because it is. You can dress it up as mechanical learning but even if you took those out and kept Mob damage the same it would still be a test of 'can you kill it before it kills you'.

That's the very definition of a combat game: can you kill it before it kills you. You are pushing the view that there is only one approach, and that's DPS. There is an alternate approach, and that's survival. Granted, it's not a popular or sexy approach, and one that you will rarely see people advocating, but it's still possible. Did you watch the video that I linked? Did you see how low his DPS was, how long it took for him to kill things? But he didn't die, outlasted the enemies, and won. Isn't that what you want? And yet claim to be impossible?

code65536 wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Plus I could have sworn a tank from a trial guild on PC did VMa on his tank and cleared it in 7 hours.

There's that video that I linked earlier, showing someone on PC/EU who did it with a heavy armor sword-and-board magdk. And I personally know someone on PC/NA (he's in the same guild as me) who cleared it with a 7p-heavy-armor stamdk build. (And at a later point, with a Pelenial mag/stam hybrid build because he likes trying different things.)

I'm not saying that any of that is easy. But it's possible. You can either take it slow and do the mechanics. Or just bring lots of DPS and shorten your exposure to the mechanics. That's a matter of player choice; that's play-how-you-want.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Again, why do you want opinions if your just gonna rip them appart and tell people to go play the content? You dont seem to want to answer that.

I'm not the one who asked for your opinion. And I'm sharing my opinion that your opinion misses the mark and mischaracterizes the arena in a way that is consistent with someone who is an outsider looking in.

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Alot of this seems to just be flailing and bashing people who dont like the content. That's what this thread, and any other thread on 'difficult' content ever turns into.

You've been in a lot of these threads, and you consistently bash the difficult content, call people elitist, etc. So forgive me if we seem a little defensive.

vMA is certainly not perfect--there are problems with it, notably the RNG of some mechanics (particularly stage 7) and the RNG of the loot rewards.

But the kind of extreme, sweeping characterization that you use to paint this and all the other "difficult" content in other threads is a big reason why threads derail.

AJTC5000 wrote: »

@Doctordarkspawn What's your progress in vMA?