RIP SORC!

CP5 · April 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno, the past two major patches have primarily focused on pet buffs. As much as I like pets they are still significantly less useful on builds that don't stack max magicka, and the entire rest of the class is being ignored. Does the combat team have any plans to help the class on a whole, or are we just going to have to wait another few months for a random buff/nerf packaged with a pet buff?

frozywozy · April 2016

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

You realize that a DK, stam or mag, has to apply 4 to 5 buffs before entering a fight?

Pallio wrote: »

So shield nerfs and ignored the stam sorc again, although WB nerf was a nice touch that will effect them too. :-(

Have you been playing on the PTS yet? Go to Alessia Bridge, all you see is stam sorcs one shotting people.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

You realize that a DK, stam or mag, has to apply 4 to 5 buffs before entering a fight?

Pallio wrote: »

So shield nerfs and ignored the stam sorc again, although WB nerf was a nice touch that will effect them too. :-(

Have you been playing on the PTS yet? Go to Alessia Bridge, all you see is stam sorcs one shotting people.

And how much of what they use are sorc abilities? :P

Lafer · April 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction

That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.

That nerf aint gonna change nothing in pvp .This will affect pve mostly.
The guy in pvp will spam the shield so if your intention were to nerf it for pvp you totaly failed.6 sec of sheild in pvp is plenty of time to get it broken .

Feynn · April 2016

olsborg wrote: »

Annulment changes are also bad, now protects against all dmg, can be stacked with all other shields. Also, bone shield is the only shield stamina users have and its behind a big grind for undaunted points for ppl who strictly want to pvp.

Imagine how PvEers feel when they have to grind for things like Vigor and Caltrops. It would be nice if you could grind them just once for the entire account rather than for each toon.

imapogostick · April 2016

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

artal · April 2016

I dont want to sound like some sorc hater (specially since I played one) but honestly all other classes needed to stack impen gear and use some ways of healing while sorcs just stack shields.
I'm fine with 6 sec duration but I guess since not all players can properly animation cancel maybe 8 sec would be better solution (I have feeling that all this crying will increase duration even more). 3 shields against all dmg is not really nerf even with 6 sec duration as some of you want to make.

What i would miss is dawnbreaker and tangling web when i play dw. Rest is fine.

My biggest concern in this patch are actually poison crafting. I'm afraid that could end up to be devastating.

artal · April 2016

I forgot about bone shield. I play mostly stam chars and I think this will be to strong. If you take into consideration that I can dodge roll pop shuffle, have decent healing and now this shield...
It might be overkill

Laggus · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Laggus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction

That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.

First page of QQ and folded already? Theres no way anyone has tried anything out properly yet. This was how Sorcs got OP as hell in the first place.

It's just that now sorcs got nothing really special for survivability, we already didn't have anything to use as a main dps skill, now suddenly everyone got the main benefit of being a sorc while nerfing down sorcs only defence.

But the class also still has one of the best escapes of all classes. All I'm saying is there should be thorough testing done before 1.The QQ'ing by some and 2.Thorough testing beyond the first day. 3. ZOS caving in by having the wool pulled over their eyes again that the class has been made useless.

Time will tell if the changes need tweaking or not. That goes for everything changed on PTS not just Sorcs shields etc.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

Laggus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Laggus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It's also worth noting that there were many, many other changes to Sorcerers - not just the two listed in the first post. It may be worth looking at all the changes as a bigger picture, and remembering those while testing out the changes on the PTS.

i did, and the ward change is the only one i take issue with. i believe a far more reasonable change is 10 sec and 12 sec, the way it is now is just far far far to much of a reduction

That's fair. Shields as a whole is something that got changed so it's worth trying these out (maybe even in Cyrodiil against other players) to see how it feels. We'll be publishing individual feedback threads for all the classes in a bit, and you can post your thoughts there after giving it a test run.

First page of QQ and folded already? Theres no way anyone has tried anything out properly yet. This was how Sorcs got OP as hell in the first place.

It's just that now sorcs got nothing really special for survivability, we already didn't have anything to use as a main dps skill, now suddenly everyone got the main benefit of being a sorc while nerfing down sorcs only defence.

But the class also still has one of the best escapes of all classes. All I'm saying is there should be thorough testing done before 1.The QQ'ing by some and 2.Thorough testing beyond the first day. 3. ZOS caving in by having the wool pulled over their eyes again that the class has been made useless.

Time will tell if the changes need tweaking or not. That goes for everything changed on PTS not just Sorcs shields etc.

Our escape isn't that great though, anyone with a gap closer slotted and half decent regen can gap close a sorc that's trying to escape with it and still have their resources left while a sorc will run out of magicka long before the gap closer does.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

I love this. Peoples main complaint about the change is the lack of being able to go on the offensive with the shield like you used to be able to.

One- currently on live a sorc needs to reapply shields at a minimum every 6 seconds in a fight because the only way to kill a sorc is to burst their shields down quickly. So, most sorcs already play in a way that the lowered duration wont matter. Many people just look at the numbers and cry about it without realizing how it actual effects battle.

Two- sorcs still have access to more shields then everyone else. they also still have access to the longest duration shield at 8 seconds. perhaps now sorcs use that morph. although you lose some shield size, the 8 second duration still allows a sorc to stack a 6 second shield and have 2 shields for a 6 second duration unlike other classes that will get, at best, 4 seconds of 2 shields.

three- this whole crap about not being able to got go on the offensive properlly now. that is nonsense. sorc rely on timed burst damage. you through out your curse and your dot, pop a ward, proc a frag, streak ult, ward. rinse repeat. additionally, this does bring a small element of i need to choose to shield up or attack in some instances which is nice to make people choose between a hard defense or strong offense at times. brings balance rather than having both.

four- lets not forget my little sorc friends that many mag builds rely on healing ward. a short duration shield that requires us going on defense to proc and therefore not attack. This playstyle has been around for awhile, so complaining about how big of a nerf this is is just a joke. in fact, because of the timing involved in a sorcs burst, a sorc can setup their burst and go into defensive mode while they wait to time their burst whereas other players require quick burst that require a full offensive.

five- l2p. omg you might not be able to run around with 15k health anymore and all divines. stop crying. pump your health and throw on some impen if you feel like your having trouble. remember when nb were crying about the nerf to cloak and the buff to magelight? guess what, everyone l2p and it is not an issue. People realized that when they actually started playing it didnt make as much of a difference as they thought it would. Same thing here. Not going to make as much of a difference as you think it will.

darthdawg1 · April 2016

I agree shields needed a change, but 6 seconds although ok for pvp, affects pvp in a bad way. Before you could cast shields and be protected versus a lot of mobs, but with only six seconds, dps and survivabilitynfornsorcs will be so hard since they were mostly light armor. Fighting maelstrom arena with a 6 second hardened ward is soooo difficult. Maybe 10 seconds would be more balanced between pvp and pve? Just my thoughts

RobbaYaga · April 2016

In my humble opinion, the 6 second duration is too short. I never used Bone Shield because the duration was too short. Unless someone is a brilliant animation cancelling fool or a macro user, 6 seconds is gone in a couple of clicks.

Regardless, as someone that plays the hell out of a Magicka Sorcerer Tank in PvE, unless the cost of Hardened Ward (and Harness Magicka) is also being lowered, there is no way the Wards can be sustained through a big boss fight, effectively making the build unworkable.

PvP, this change is probably less important. PvE ... ouch.

I foresee my Magicka Sorcerer going to Stamina with what I see here.

Xeven · April 2016

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

Minalan · April 2016

imapogostick wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

*one shot stealth gank*
*tea bag tea bag tea bag tea bag*
Whisper from @R0fL_Sk4nk_G4nK: eat that shitter! l2P!!

So. Now. You were going to tell me when I *need* to cast shields again?

PS: if you have a DK with light armor, you get a shield better than hardened ward.

Soris · April 2016

You call that a nerf bcs they reduced the duration? Wait what??

That harness magicka buff is HUGE boost for shield stacking sorcs. Plus healing ward PLUS you may as well use bone shield if you can afford the stam cost and you will have huge shield for both dmg types.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

they do. they have one at 8 seconds.

your illustrations is that basically once a sorc is cc they are screwed. sorcs can break free you know right? sorcs currently get cc to burst through shields. nothing changes there. what cc last for 6 seconds that doesnt break when your hit? any player that is not able to cc break a long duration cc like fear should die. now and after this goes live. now if your trying to say that a player can CC you and burst through your shields and burst you down all before your able to c break, then you wait to long to cc break or you have an extremely tiny shield, no impen, and low health. Currently mg builds survive everyday from being cc and attacked without any shields.

Xeven · April 2016

If you try to refresh ward at 5 seconds but get CC instead, your old ward will protect you long enough to get up. If you try to refresh at 6 seconds but get CC instead, you're dead.

Effectively what we have is a 1 second ward, 4 second DPS rotation. That is the pigeonhole we've been shoved into.

americansteel · April 2016

Casts_Many_Heals wrote: »

GOOD a good way to handle shield stacking i like

still not good enough.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Minalan wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

*one shot stealth gank*
*tea bag tea bag tea bag tea bag*
Whisper from @R0fL_Sk4nk_G4nK: eat that shitter! l2P!!

So. Now. You were going to tell me when I *need* to cast shields again?

PS: if you have a DK with light armor, you get a shield better than hardened ward.

then, idk be prepared for being ganked. cast your shields every 6 seconds to avoid that. or use mage light for the reduced damage. or go around popular ganking areas. your logic seems to suggest that a sorc should always be able to counter gankers just by pressing one button and haveing it last for 20 secnds. your basically saying you want your 20 second buff to gankers back. really? reapply your shields if you dont want to be one shot. get more health if you dont want to be oneshot. again run maglight. run impen. so many things you can do. l2p.

The_Lex · April 2016

I'll be planning to keep defensive rune up at all times. Not a solution, but what else can we do?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

*one shot stealth gank*
*tea bag tea bag tea bag tea bag*
Whisper from @R0fL_Sk4nk_G4nK: eat that shitter! l2P!!

So. Now. You were going to tell me when I *need* to cast shields again?

PS: if you have a DK with light armor, you get a shield better than hardened ward.

then, idk be prepared for being ganked. cast your shields every 6 seconds to avoid that. or use mage light for the reduced damage. or go around popular ganking areas. your logic seems to suggest that a sorc should always be able to counter gankers just by pressing one button and haveing it last for 20 secnds. your basically saying you want your 20 second buff to gankers back. really? reapply your shields if you dont want to be one shot. get more health if you dont want to be oneshot. again run maglight. run impen. so many things you can do. l2p.

Well, we can also make zenimax take away stealthing so gankers actually got to L2P and use their brain. I'd say that's a better solution.

Xeven · April 2016

The_Patriarch wrote: »

I'll be planning to keep defensive rune up at all times. Not a solution, but what else can we do?

You can't. DR fades after so many attacks from a CC immune target.

The_Lex · April 2016

Xeven wrote: »

The_Patriarch wrote: »

I'll be planning to keep defensive rune up at all times. Not a solution, but what else can we do?

You can't. DR fades after so many attacks from a CC immune target.

I really meant while traveling, in response to the post above mine about being preprared to be ganked. But yeah, you're right.

bowmanz607 · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

*one shot stealth gank*
*tea bag tea bag tea bag tea bag*
Whisper from @R0fL_Sk4nk_G4nK: eat that shitter! l2P!!

So. Now. You were going to tell me when I *need* to cast shields again?

PS: if you have a DK with light armor, you get a shield better than hardened ward.

then, idk be prepared for being ganked. cast your shields every 6 seconds to avoid that. or use mage light for the reduced damage. or go around popular ganking areas. your logic seems to suggest that a sorc should always be able to counter gankers just by pressing one button and haveing it last for 20 secnds. your basically saying you want your 20 second buff to gankers back. really? reapply your shields if you dont want to be one shot. get more health if you dont want to be oneshot. again run maglight. run impen. so many things you can do. l2p.

Well, we can also make zenimax take away stealthing so gankers actually got to L2P and use their brain. I'd say that's a better solution.

i think ganking is a legit playstyle. a true ganker is going full glass canon so once they are caught they are dead. Additionally, assassins are real. people kil people from the shadows all the time. a player should be able to choose to play that way if they want. Again, there are plenty of counters to that playstyle. so long as there are counters to a playstyle, i dont think there is a problem with it.

kadar · April 2016

Like a few more rational individuals have pointed out, 6 seconds is an eternity in combat. Most Sorcs out there recast their shields more often than 6 seconds in combat already. This will affect combat in a positive way.

Minalan · April 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

*one shot stealth gank*
*tea bag tea bag tea bag tea bag*
Whisper from @R0fL_Sk4nk_G4nK: eat that shitter! l2P!!

So. Now. You were going to tell me when I *need* to cast shields again?

PS: if you have a DK with light armor, you get a shield better than hardened ward.

then, idk be prepared for being ganked. cast your shields every 6 seconds to avoid that. or use mage light for the reduced damage. or go around popular ganking areas. your logic seems to suggest that a sorc should always be able to counter gankers just by pressing one button and haveing it last for 20 secnds. your basically saying you want your 20 second buff to gankers back. really? reapply your shields if you dont want to be one shot. get more health if you dont want to be oneshot. again run maglight. run impen. so many things you can do. l2p.

Why should stealth players hit one button and stay invisible? Maybe they should try refreshing that every six seconds. L2P!

20 seconds is too long, 6 is too short. The answer is somewhere in between. 10 or 12 maybe?

Elevenstorm · April 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

Sorc's do have Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Block and Dodge roll. You just choose to not use them.

Birdovic · April 2016

Elevenstorm wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:

Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 5 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead Sorc.

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

Sorc's do have Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Block and Dodge roll. You just choose to not use them.

This discussion is clearly about Magicka Sorc^^

bowmanz607 · April 2016

Minalan wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

you guys realize that you can cast even bigger shields now? harness magicka protects against physical damage now too. the recasting will be annoying tho but since the shields can absorb more now it should work out to actually be stronger. stamina sorcs are *****d tho

Do you realize that stacking those shields would be only pain since just after you put them all on you can cast maybe two skills and then recast the shields again....

Maybe try not casting your shield until you need to? Problems solved ffs. Everyone knows the sorcerer shields need nerfed. now if only my dk shield wasn't 2k. Kinda worthless. I only use it for the major mending before I use my heals.

*one shot stealth gank*
*tea bag tea bag tea bag tea bag*
Whisper from @R0fL_Sk4nk_G4nK: eat that shitter! l2P!!

So. Now. You were going to tell me when I *need* to cast shields again?

PS: if you have a DK with light armor, you get a shield better than hardened ward.

then, idk be prepared for being ganked. cast your shields every 6 seconds to avoid that. or use mage light for the reduced damage. or go around popular ganking areas. your logic seems to suggest that a sorc should always be able to counter gankers just by pressing one button and haveing it last for 20 secnds. your basically saying you want your 20 second buff to gankers back. really? reapply your shields if you dont want to be one shot. get more health if you dont want to be oneshot. again run maglight. run impen. so many things you can do. l2p.

Why should stealth players hit one button and stay invisible? Maybe they should try refreshing that every six seconds. L2P!

20 seconds is too long, 6 is too short. The answer is somewhere in between. 10 or 12 maybe?

one, that is a single class that can do that. two, you do have to refresh cloak. in fact you have to do it every 2.9 seconds, so that argument is out the window. no one is taking away the ability to use your shield against the possibility of a ganker. you simply just have to hit one button more often than before. heck, by the time you have to reapply it your mag would have regened anyway.

everyone seems to keep forgetting that there is an 8 second shield. but ooooohhhhhhh noooooo i have to choose between two skills rather than have one go to that everyone uses awwwwwwwwwwww. the choices..........to many choices zos awwwwwwwww. stop it. you mean we all have to choose between a larger shield or higher duration ooooo noooo. whats that......the 8 second one can translate to more damage mitigation because the extra time gives me the opportunity to stack annulment......noooooooooo......i have to think about build dynamics??? i cant just run the same sorc setup as everyone else because......choices awwwwwwwwwww.

just saying...