Do you think ZOS should eliminate animation cancelling?

GrimMauKin · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

We do need to be clear what constitutes animation cancelling though. There's often a disparity between cast times and animation times - for example a lot of skills have cast times listed as Instant but don't apply until a longer animation has played out; if a skill is meant to apply instantly then cancelling the animation, so that it does, seems valid.

mdylan2013 · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

Chelos wrote: »

Lithium Flower wrote: »

There's plenty of problems with a mechanic that uses what is technically an exploit (albeit a condoned one) to dramatically increase DPS.

It is not an exploit no matter how much you and quite some people would like it to be one.
A thing is an exploit only if ZOS states it is.
Exacly like a buch of DK and NB don't want to agree that jumping into enemy keeps is an exploit, which it is per ZOS definition. Period.

They are doing something, btw, not getting rid of it but make it look smooth.
It's just another skill you don't even need to master and it's not much more difficult than hitting two different buttons in a set sequence.

It is an exploit, you need to look up the definition of the word. It may well be a 'condoned' one, but it's still an exploit.

Can you explain the purpose of an animation when casting an ability?

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

It should go.

timidobserver wrote: »

After their recent failed attempt on the pts I am going to say NO.

They werent attempting to remove it. They were changing which animation would be dropped when animation cancelling. Currently the skill which is cancelled has its animation cut short and the attack following it can be seen in full. They were trying to make it so the skill which is being cancelled would play out its animation while the following ability wouldnt be seen at all.

Nolphi · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

Its simply not realistic and it makes for weird gameplay. The ability to cancel a skill needs to stay but if its a single hit attack skill (think wrecking blow) then canceling it prematurely should simply result to the hit simply not landing. If its a multi hit attack (think punturing sweeps or flurry) then the damage should be prorated to the number of hits landed before the skill was cancelled. I dont think it dumbs down combat if you remove the current crazy stuff with a flinch landing a light attack. Reading the situation and your choice of skill and the time it takes before it hits then becomes the deciding factor, not whether or not you have practiced your little finger combos the most.... whats currently happening in PVP is just plain silly...

EsoRecon · February 2016

No let it stay

This isn't skyrim people, I don't care how ugly animation canceling looks.This is an MMO and animation canceling adds a layer of skill to the game. It separates nubs from the pros. And if you want to learn how to do it look it up on youtube. And then practice it... Its not even hard

L2P

rfennell_ESO · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

It's the largest source of abuse in game right now.

I'm sure there are lag switchers as well, but that's an entirely different type of cheater.

But with this clicky clicky keyboards you can hear the button presses through the streamers mics. One in particular who loves to "animation cancel" you can distinctly here only one click before the triple animation cancel, all while he's big on "it's skill".

timidobserver · February 2016

No let it stay

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

It should go.

timidobserver wrote: »

After their recent failed attempt on the pts I am going to say NO.

They werent attempting to remove it. They were changing which animation would be dropped when animation cancelling. Currently the skill which is cancelled has its animation cut short and the attack following it can be seen in full. They were trying to make it so the skill which is being cancelled would play out its animation while the following ability wouldnt be seen at all.

Point being, their attempt to change it left us with a worse system. What we have now works and has worked since beta, so I would like them to leave it alone.

Nolphi · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

Its not about whether its hard or not, it just doesnt make any sense and should never have been implemented that way. Like I wrote before: cancelling a single attack means no damage, cancelling a multi attack or tick skill means damage stops the moment you cancel. Thats the only realistic way of going about it and would not dumb down combat...

EZgoin76 · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

Yes animation canceling is easy. Not everyone can do it, but most can with a little practice. Took me maybe 1 or 2 sessions for me to get the basics down.

People being able to learn it isn't the problem here. As far as I can tell it's getting hit with abilities you don't even see coming. In this aspect I have to agree with the people who want it removed or changed. This game was clearly built with reactive combat in mind but with AC there's no chance to react.

Just my 2 cents but I really don't care either way. I'll keep playing whatever ZOS decides to do. That is unless the lag and rubber banding issues are not fixed in the next year. Hopefully sooner though.

Robbmrp · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

The fact that it's not a core design of the game says it all. People complain about one shots all the time, me being among them. Removing Animation Canceling would be the EASIEST fix for that problem.

Then we would EASILY be able to identify people using macros and ban accordingly.

SirDopey · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

For a very long time I have been against this. However, there has been a drastic shift in PVP over the last month, which has forced a change of heart by me. Players that I regularly encounter and know to, well not be very good, are all of a sudden able to perfectly time their animation cancelling, everytime... Macroing is becoming a huge problem, I don't care what people say or believe, its far more prevalent in the game than we give consideration.

Removing ability queuing from the game is the only fool proof way of fixing this issue....

Kublakan · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

Yes they should eliminate it.

Or you allow animation cancelling and cancel the effect, or you eliminates the cancellation and let the effect going through. You cant have both, its just plain stupid.

Blo0dstorm · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

You can stop moving your fork from your plate to your mouth anytime, just don't expect getting the food.

Own · February 2016

No let it stay

no no no. I hate letting go of the controls, *** continuously happening and attacks finishing off while I do nothing or trying to bail..take the damage if you need it, but it will feel like you've lost any connection to your character. That's how BDO was for me at least..

Abob · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

They should remove it if possible, it causes too much lag.

SirDopey · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

EsoRecon wrote: »

This isn't skyrim people, I don't care how ugly animation canceling looks.This is an MMO and animation canceling adds a layer of skill to the game. It separates nubs from the pros. And if you want to learn how to do it look it up on youtube. And then practice it... Its not even
L2P

What he means to say is, Learn to Macro - because that's what's happening......

PlagueMonk · February 2016

Other (Please explain)

eliisra wrote: »

I think animation cancelling light- and heavy attacks are pretty ok, also knows a weaving. This because it's a PvE thing and every single build and class can do it, therefore balanced.

But I have problems with animation cancelling high dmg/cc skills and combos with bash&block. I get that it adds extra layers of skill to gameplay(unless macro'ing). But class- and skill lines still aren't balanced based on how well you can clip the animation. The amount of dmg or healing a skill is doing isn't set by devs based on how well you can clip it. On a templar you cant really clip a single dps skill for example, since all is channelled or with to long cast time.

If ZoS wants to keep clipping for faster casting and combos, they need to make it possible for every single skill in the game, or buff skills that cant be clipped. It's that simple. But we all know they wont, because they have no clue how animation cancelling works lol.

There's also a visual problem with animation cancelling. I kinda wanna see what the opponent is doing in PvP, but when he clips the animation of for example Wrecking Blow I cant predict when the dmg and cc is going land.

Um, WHAT? Only a PvE thing? Do you not know that people using macros are able to pull off 4-5 attacks in less than 2 sec because of animation canceling in PvP, causing people to pretty much fall over dead.

I personally voted other because, while I want it gone, Zenimax has made it clear they are not interested in getting rid of it.

My biggest problem with AC however is it defeats the fact that certain skills should take a certain amount of time. Like a heavy attack SHOULD take longer because it's going to do more damage and return resources AND telegraph what you are doing so you can dodge it but if it's taking the same time as a light attack then how is that even remotely fair since I have no chance to see it go off let alone dodge it.

I would much prefer that each and every attack took X amount of time and that's how long the attack should take to complete. period. I shouldn't have to worry if my opponent (or even elitist players) are using macros or the best twitch skills to boost their DPS.

Radburn · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

There's no skill behind animation cancelling. Those who utilize it have worked out the timing for global cooldowns so they can get the macro's working in 3rd party software like Razor synapse. The motivation comes from allowing them to have the ability to auto fire off more skills than their opponent can manually in PVP. The average player doesn't even know/consider this and is at a severe disadvantage.

Is it fair? no. It's like having a paintball tournament and giving one team fully automatic paintball guns while the other team uses standard pump action.

flguy147ub17_ESO · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

I personally think the reason they decide to roll with it is because they cant fix it. Again its just my opinion, i am sure they spent a ton of money, time and resources working on all these animations. I doubt they did all that wanting players just to cancel them out half the time. Also there are a ton of people that know nothing about animation cancelling at all, so i think many of the people that want to keep it want to keep there unknown advantage. And yes i do very basic animation cancelling myself but personally wish it wasnt in the game but feel forced to do some of it to be even playing field.

Fuzzybrick · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

I just want to know how someone can wrecking blow me 5 times with one attack. In less than a second. Ps4 server, everyone says he hacks, I don't know tho. Full life, life gone death recap 5 wrecking blows. No one else there.

Genomic · February 2016

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

I personally think the reason they decide to roll with it is because they cant fix it.

ZOS essentially admitted as much. That it's a bug, but too complex to fix so is now a 'feature' that they won't fix.

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

timidobserver wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

It should go.

timidobserver wrote: »

After their recent failed attempt on the pts I am going to say NO.

They werent attempting to remove it. They were changing which animation would be dropped when animation cancelling. Currently the skill which is cancelled has its animation cut short and the attack following it can be seen in full. They were trying to make it so the skill which is being cancelled would play out its animation while the following ability wouldnt be seen at all.

Point being, their attempt to change it left us with a worse system. What we have now works and has worked since beta, so I would like them to leave it alone.

Well Im not quite satisfied with the 'bad' and 'worse' options. Even if they somehow work.

Lylith · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

Abob wrote: »

They should remove it if possible, it causes too much lag.

seems to, yes.

just as encountering certain players in pvp seems to immediately cause a lagstorm and the inability to swap weapons, use skills or attack. using a pot or h/a immovable seems to have no effect on this.

you may even see one attack before you die, but only your recap will show you the other four you didn't see.

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

EsoRecon wrote: »

This isn't skyrim people, I don't care how ugly animation canceling looks.This is an MMO and animation canceling adds a layer of skill to the game. It separates nubs from the pros. And if you want to learn how to do it look it up on youtube. And then practice it... Its not even hard
L2P

This isn't about L2P. Sure, there is a bit of that involved to get AC working for you. However, there is no SKILL involved.

Seriously, picking which attack type to use and if picking wrong, the decision to cancel it or just let it go and make a better choice with the next attack or counter, now that's something to do with skill.
Choosing your set-up of abilities and how to use them to the max (always taking into account your passives and what your opponent is and has been using, together with his/her class and abilities passive: There you have what distinguishes a pro from a casual.

Using skill X that completely nullifies whatever by some (unbreakable or nearly so) CC (stun, immobilze, snare) so you can do Y and Z by animation canceling before anyone can react, counter, ie. actually fight.
Rinse and repeat. There is no skill involved in that.

That sequence is so short and - due to the inability to counter - nearly fail safe.
You could just as well macro it, it's so damned easy.

Point is: Without animation cancelling you would see (pun intended) a lot more skill in the game.

A lot of things would become harder (for those relying on animation cancelling), but for the casuals, it would be actually the same (if not easier). For the skilled players, they will learn and adept in no time.

Only those relying on AC to get that extra advantage (and the easy mode in PvP by extra burst damage with the added stun to ensure no counter play happens) will have a hard time. Learn to adept.

In short: PvP would become much better without AC. PvE would be a lot more interesting / challenging. The game would be better for it in either case.

dday3six · February 2016

No let it stay

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

This isn't skyrim people, I don't care how ugly animation canceling looks.This is an MMO and animation canceling adds a layer of skill to the game. It separates nubs from the pros. And if you want to learn how to do it look it up on youtube. And then practice it... Its not even hard
L2P

This isn't about L2P. Sure, there is a bit of that involved to get AC working for you. However, there is no SKILL involved.

Seriously, picking which attack type to use and if picking wrong, the decision to cancel it or just let it go and make a better choice with the next attack or counter, now that's something to do with skill.
Choosing your set-up of abilities and how to use them to the max (always taking into account your passives and what your opponent is and has been using, together with his/her class and abilities passive: There you have what distinguishes a pro from a casual.

Using skill X that completely nullifies whatever by some (unbreakable or nearly so) CC (stun, immobilze, snare) so you can do Y and Z by animation canceling before anyone can react, counter, ie. actually fight.
Rinse and repeat. There is no skill involved in that.

That sequence is so short and - due to the inability to counter - nearly fail safe.
You could just as well macro it, it's so damned easy.

Point is: Without animation cancelling you would see (pun intended) a lot more skill in the game.

A lot of things would become harder (for those relying on animation cancelling), but for the casuals, it would be actually the same (if not easier). For the skilled players, they will learn and adept in no time.

Only those relying on AC to get that extra advantage (and the easy mode in PvP by extra burst damage with the added stun to ensure no counter play happens) will have a hard time. Learn to adept.

In short: PvP would become much better without AC. PvE would be a lot more interesting / challenging. The game would be better for it in either case.

Without animation canceling players wouldn't be able to dodge, block, or sprint reactively. Even buff dismounting to be buffed before engaging would not be possible. PVP would not be better with sluggish and unresponsive combat. It would be rather unplayable having lost of semblance of modern standards.

Imagine having to wait for the forward motion of your character's sprint to stop before being able to use any other actions. Quite literally having to cease interaction with the input and wait a moment before inputing another action. It's animation canceling that allows actions to interrupt one another, creating a seamless flow. Animation canceling has been the cornerstone motion fluidity in videos games for a very long time. Clearly there's a great deal of misunderstanding of this fact among ESO players.

You don't actually want animation canceling removed. You want the priority system altered in a way that actions will not have an effect (example: attacks would not deal damage) unless the animation is allowed to play out in full.

Frankly, it's really hard to take the anti-AC crowd seriously when they don't know enough to make the above stated distinction.

I_killed_Vivec · February 2016

No let it stay

l3alls wrote: »

no no no. I hate letting go of the controls, *** continuously happening and attacks finishing off while I do nothing or trying to bail..take the damage if you need it, but it will feel like you've lost any connection to your character. That's how BDO was for me at least..

My concern isn't so much about damage done (or received) but the combat experience.

Some skills are already "clunky" (I refuse to use 2-hander because I find the skills too unpleasant to use), it would be worse if you're just sat there waiting for an animation to complete before doing anything.

Cherryblossom · February 2016

dday3six wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

bikerangelo wrote: »

As a templar; hell no.

If I get stuck in one of my endless channels and can't cancel it with a block, I'd die a bunch more than I do already. This doesn't just serve to do more dps in the game, it helps with survivability as well. Plus, my only burst combo comes from animation cancelling, and it'd be stupid easy to avoid if all of my animations followed through.
Anyone who spends five minutes in pvp will hear from someone else what animation cancelling is. It's not a knowledge requirement prior to leaving the wailing prison in order to have fun in the game, it's an added layer of difficulty to master in end game pve and pvp.
You should also earn the right to do more damage aside from gear and stats. That's how lower level players can remain competitive against higher level players, otherwise this game will turn into an even bigger damage contest where the person with the most gold wins because he can afford the better gear for the better stats.

If you don't know how to animation cancel, learn. If you don't want to, you don't have to. Don't strip the few remaining challenging mechanics left in the game.

A block cancels the effect of the current channeled skill, it's the weapon swapping without cancelling the skill at hand that is the problem and opens up for all macro cheating.

Channeled skills are in fact the only ones not affected by Animation Canceling advantages and therefore are useless in macros.

Why do people keep bringing up macros? It's not widely used because it cannot be adjusted to changing conditions. On top of that it's slower than a player actually inputing the actions manually believe it or not. Nearly all instances of players in PVP claiming that macros allowed a player to get off X skills/actions in 1s are misinterpreting the situation. All skills have a 0.9s global cool down that a user cannot bypas with marcos. What happens in these X skills in 1 sec scenarios is lag.

Actually Macro's make it much easier to animation cancel, you create a one button press for a channeled ability which starts the skill and then blocks at the right time frame to cancel in one , this is much quicker and more reliable than manually doing it, as it's consistent.
The same goes for weaving, a macro that starts a heavy attach, so Button Pressed for a set time which is then cancelled by a skill being selected.

Please don't ever say that Macro's are not a better way of doing it, the fact is macro's make animation cancelling easy and quick. You only need the skill to set up the macro to do them.

But having said that, I don't want to remove animation cancelling, without it the game would be slow an boring.

Abob · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

Lylith wrote: »

Abob wrote: »

They should remove it if possible, it causes too much lag.

seems to, yes.

just as encountering certain players in pvp seems to immediately cause a lagstorm and the inability to swap weapons, use skills or attack. using a pot or h/a immovable seems to have no effect on this.

you may even see one attack before you die, but only your recap will show you the other four you didn't see.

This is what I mean, I duel A LOT, and when I fight against certain individuals the lag is unbearable, not being able to swap weapons, abilities not working unless I push the key 3 or 4 times, having to hold block 2 times for it to actually work.

I'm not against AC, I'm against the lag it creates, I enjoy good pvp, especially dueling, and good pvp requires no lag and good responsiveness.

So, if I have to choose between keeping AC with all the lag it brings, or removing it and have an actually playable game, I'd choose the last.

Krycek89 · February 2016

Yes get rid of it

Rune_Relic wrote: »

One of the other posters said cancelling an ability should make it forfeit.
I am kind of that opinion but not so extreme.
If the costs/dps/hits is the same ..and you can still see skills telegraphed properly to be countered ..then I am happy for them to stay.

But I don't think ZOS can provide either so they need to go.
Animations look crap.
Telegraphs aren't visible so cant be reacted to.
Proper costing of skills is screwed...and thus so is balance.

The way it used to work is....if you chose a long wind up high damage skill.. you were vulnerable to counter.
If you didn't want to be vulnerable you didn't use a long wind up high damage skill.
AC takes away all the risks and keeps all the benefits

hits the nail on the head so very well that you broke the nail

themdogesbite · February 2016

No let it stay

I don't think one of the last things in ESO that has a skill ceiling should be removed, everything is already so incredibly dumbed down.