Magelight will be OP in PVP

Xeniph · February 2016

Saturn wrote: »

I've used magelight quite a bit on the pts against stealth nightblades and imo it isn't as strong as people think, the radius is small and spamming it is cost inefficient. This is the type of ability that is only good if you are ganging up on someone, not really if you are evenly matched.

There is no reason to spam it, it reveals for as long as the mote is active, so all you have to do is have enough regen to cast it once ever 4-5 seconds. As a stamina spec I was able to keep it up 100% in combat with no impact to my magicka,.

CP5 wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

L2P use radiant magelight.

Yes, now I think a lot of ppl will.

Cry more NB gankers we probably lost a lot of players in Cyrodiil and IC to u

This is bigger than whatever gripe you have with NB cloak. In magelight current form it also negates invisibility pots and an ULTIMATE ability.
Magelight is SO good atm that most magicka builds will run it. There's far too great a risk for someone to waste 200 base Ultimate on a Clouding Swarm if it's negated by the press of a button. That morph will be very much not viable. Vamps have a hard enough time in Cyro atm being big fat targets for one shot builds without this.

Most magicka builds hell!

During our testing I was able to cast is every 4 seconds and regen to full, while chasing a magicka nb. This was with 1200 magica regen on a stamina spec.

EVERYONE will run it. There is literally no reason not to run Radiant over Inner in pvp. +5% magicka is chicken scratch compared to -50% stealth damage and immunity to stealth stuns and empower without needing a target.. I know I will have it on even my stamina gankers.

It's just how every single nightblade is running cloak atm, and everyone would be running it if it was a skill available to everyone, I mean what's not to like with a free pass to not get killed with the push of a button 90% of the time?

Spoken like someone who hasn't played a NB. Take that 90% success rate and drop it to 20%, and that's what cloak really is. Or *was*.

look it's obvious RML wasnt the counter you NB claimed it was... do you know how I know that? because no body was using it. Even if you were to take away the "empower on demand" aspect, and bring it back to being a toggle effect, the real issue NBs seem to have is the fact it keeps you from going stealth when you're discovered, which, according to you guys, didn't matter because being discovered meant "instant death" becuz you guys were "so squishy" and "not OP at all". If your real issue is that you can't cloak immediately when you're hit with a single attack, you're using cloak as a crutch and you're probably the type of player who contributed to magelight getting this update.

For the record, I don't even use cloak when I pvp, and there are a great deal of people who can attest to that.

My argument is that "balance" does not mean preventing an entire class from casting their skill. There are plenty of other ways to go about rebalancing cloak. For starters, they could have made it so RML functioned the same way as detect pots, and allowed one to still see someone who is invisible. Not prevent them from using the skill altogether.

And yes, cloak is a crutch. Every class had a crutch, and now one doesn't. Ward, BoL, Flappy Wings - all crutches. There have been a multitude of ways to counter cloak outside of RML, by the way. I've been teaching people how to do it for months. The inability to counter cloak has and always will stem from a lack of understanding of the class.

Exactly^

Show me the counter to Magelight.

Unless you count not attacking at all, then just lol.

Balance means everything can cancel each other out.

Magelight currently has NO counter at all, even though the ability has gone through a fundamental change. I believe this is the issue we all have with it.
I personally thing a good compromise is to allow me to CC break the lock out, get 5 seconds of immunity and be able to cloak. Then I would have the choice to spend double the resources or just eat it. While the attacker still gets to reveal me and react/adjust accordingly. You know, balance.

The counter is range. NB's have 3 major speed buffs, one of them tied to a major snare, and fear and a teleport that can go through walls. It would be interesting if the lockout could be purged but that in my opinion would leave flare underpowered as its an awkward skill as is but many NB's seem to treat cloak as if it were the only skill they could use.

That's the issue, with the debuff lasting 5 seconds, I had all the time in the word to gap close and refresh the skill lock. As I said, I chased a skilled magicka nb until he finally just gave up. He tried everything, shades, fear, movement speed and LoS. None of it was enough, not even close. I was in absolutely in no danger of losing my target.

I suppose I could be better than most at staying on a cloaking NB, which makes it seem too easy. But I don't fancy myself all that skilled, so I doubt that's it.

catalyst10e · February 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

L2P use radiant magelight.

Yes, now I think a lot of ppl will.

Cry more NB gankers we probably lost a lot of players in Cyrodiil and IC to u

This is bigger than whatever gripe you have with NB cloak. In magelight current form it also negates invisibility pots and an ULTIMATE ability.
Magelight is SO good atm that most magicka builds will run it. There's far too great a risk for someone to waste 200 base Ultimate on a Clouding Swarm if it's negated by the press of a button. That morph will be very much not viable. Vamps have a hard enough time in Cyro atm being big fat targets for one shot builds without this.

Most magicka builds hell!

During our testing I was able to cast is every 4 seconds and regen to full, while chasing a magicka nb. This was with 1200 magica regen on a stamina spec.

EVERYONE will run it. There is literally no reason not to run Radiant over Inner in pvp. +5% magicka is chicken scratch compared to -50% stealth damage and immunity to stealth stuns and empower without needing a target.. I know I will have it on even my stamina gankers.

It's just how every single nightblade is running cloak atm, and everyone would be running it if it was a skill available to everyone, I mean what's not to like with a free pass to not get killed with the push of a button 90% of the time?

Spoken like someone who hasn't played a NB. Take that 90% success rate and drop it to 20%, and that's what cloak really is. Or *was*.

look it's obvious RML wasnt the counter you NB claimed it was... do you know how I know that? because no body was using it. Even if you were to take away the "empower on demand" aspect, and bring it back to being a toggle effect, the real issue NBs seem to have is the fact it keeps you from going stealth when you're discovered, which, according to you guys, didn't matter because being discovered meant "instant death" becuz you guys were "so squishy" and "not OP at all". If your real issue is that you can't cloak immediately when you're hit with a single attack, you're using cloak as a crutch and you're probably the type of player who contributed to magelight getting this update.

For the record, I don't even use cloak when I pvp, and there are a great deal of people who can attest to that.

My argument is that "balance" does not mean preventing an entire class from casting their skill. There are plenty of other ways to go about rebalancing cloak. For starters, they could have made it so RML functioned the same way as detect pots, and allowed one to still see someone who is invisible. Not prevent them from using the skill altogether.

And yes, cloak is a crutch. Every class had a crutch, and now one doesn't. Ward, BoL, Flappy Wings - all crutches. There have been a multitude of ways to counter cloak outside of RML, by the way. I've been teaching people how to do it for months. The inability to counter cloak has and always will stem from a lack of understanding of the class.

If you don't use cloak in PVP then this change doesn't effect you. Perhaps you could then start to teach those who use cloak as a crutch how to play without it, instead of teaching people how to counter it.

Not every ability should have a counter to it, what's the counter to camo hunter? what's the counter to extended chains? What's the counter to BoL? Some abilities should have a counter in placed tho, such is the case with Reflective scale/defensive stance. With all the stelath movement speed bonuses and purge effect, and abuse with magblades extended/forever cloak, the ability to completely replenish resources while hiding from the enemy who is wasting resources looking for you, made it an ability that earned it's place at the top of the list of skills that needed to be looked at. The devs explained that it wasnt mechanically like streak and therefor couldn't receive the same treatment of an increase in cost. so instead the counters in place that didn't work well enough get a buff. Again, it's mechanically doing what it did before, it's finding people in stealth, it's range is 1m bigger than steel tornado, so what are you doing allowing someone to get that close? what this stops is those who hit you for burst, fear and then cloak to burst you again. So now you will just have to fight them for a couple of extra seconds before you fear and cloak up again I suppose. too many people were misusing cloak, just like too many sorcs were misusing streak... but instead of nerfing the cloak, they buffed the counter(s).

If anything, with RML having to be cast now, there's going to be less people with it just "on" all the time. which increases the chance of it just being used to find someone, or when you already got hit from the initial burst. and since NBs love to snare or root you in place, there was no option before to find them before the next burst came, so now it'll keep you from cloaking up giving your opponent a reasonable chance to react.

Justice31st · February 2016

Lol, all these salty Nightblades mad that it won't be as easy to gank anymore.

Xeniph · February 2016

Justice31st wrote: »

Lol, all these salty Nightblades mad that it won't be as easy to gank anymore.

You will still be as easy, it will just be MUCH harder to get away from the friends you were hiding behind.

Xeniph · February 2016

Quoted content removed

The majority of the folks in this thread providing constructive, informative information have all 4 classes at or beyond pvp rank 20...you?

PlagueMonk · February 2016

Justice31st wrote: »

Lol, all these salty Nightblades mad that it won't be as easy to gank anymore.

You couldn't be more wrong.

All this will do is drive more "honest" NBs like myself and many others who like to engage in actual combat, away from either playing the class or into more gank/bow snipe builds. So ganking will get WORSE.

I personally play to be the stealthy fighter, not a 2 shot "ganker" and like using my cloak to do what the skill and class in general was designed for. So if I no longer realistically have that option then I see little reason to even play the character anymore.

So in two months, when you and others who were singing Zenimax's praises over this great skill buff, come back to the forms QQing about how the battlefield is now filled with gankers and snipers.......well you got exactly what you asked for.

frozywozy · February 2016

Xeniph wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

I like that NBs yelled at everyone to use radiant as a counter to cloak, and when we said it wasn't strong enough to be a hard counter to cloak like they claimed it was they said we all needed to l2p, now it is actually worth using, and worth suggesting to mag players as a viable option and they're all crying... Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned fear yet? It didnt get any nerf as far as I can tell, fear, rapid maneuver away and then cloak up. Are you guys mad you now have to slot skills to counter other classes like the rest of us have had to do?

They over buffed it, coupled with Cloak's changes it is just over the top now.

Pretty sure you would be a bit pissed if there was an ability that removed your hardened ward, and prevented it from recasting every 5 seconds on use.

While being available to every spec, and being so attractive that 90% of builds you run into will have it.

I'm all for counterplay, but over buffing abilities because people can't spec appropriately is a bit BS.

I'm not pigeon holed here, I have the other classes to go to. However I just hate to see my prefered playstyle destroyed for no good reason.

When I opened this thread, the first thing that came into my mind was when my group faced you at Brk a couple days ago. We got the outter main door down and then you kept coming from behind trying to pick on people in my group. I chased you 6 times in a row from the door to the Sejanus's field spamming caltrops. You would run away altering between cloaking and dodge rolling (with the major expedition passive from bow) to make you reappear from cloak 25-30yards away from where you initially cloaked.

Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Revealing Flare, Radian Mage Light of the actual meta would not change anything. Not even going to talk about the fact that you could use Cloak at least 15times in a row during the whole time I chased you down as a Stam nightblade.

I have only read the first 2 pages of this thread but there is one thing that I'm pretty sure no one has talked about so far regarding the cloak mechanic in this game. Yes of course, ZOS decided that there would be no cooldown in this game which made it appealing for alot of people. What you may not realized is that in the most popular mmo in the world, Cloak, being known as Vanish has a 2 minutes cooldown. In this game, it is not even an ultimate with a cheap cost. It is an ability which can be spammed over and over, yet people complain that Mage Light and Revealing Flare keeping the target out of stealth for 5 seconds after being revealed is overpowered? Go back to Mario Bros.

jhharvest · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Yes of course, ZOS decided that there would be no cooldown in this game which made it appealing for alot of people. What you may not realized is that in the most popular mmo in the world, Cloak, being known as Vanish has a 2 minutes cooldown. In this game, it is not even an ultimate with a cheap cost. It is an ability which can be spammed over and over, yet people complain that Mage Light and Revealing Flare keeping the target out of stealth for 5 seconds after being revealed is overpowered?

+1

Junkogen · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

I like that NBs yelled at everyone to use radiant as a counter to cloak, and when we said it wasn't strong enough to be a hard counter to cloak like they claimed it was they said we all needed to l2p, now it is actually worth using, and worth suggesting to mag players as a viable option and they're all crying... Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned fear yet? It didnt get any nerf as far as I can tell, fear, rapid maneuver away and then cloak up. Are you guys mad you now have to slot skills to counter other classes like the rest of us have had to do?

They over buffed it, coupled with Cloak's changes it is just over the top now.

Pretty sure you would be a bit pissed if there was an ability that removed your hardened ward, and prevented it from recasting every 5 seconds on use.

While being available to every spec, and being so attractive that 90% of builds you run into will have it.

I'm all for counterplay, but over buffing abilities because people can't spec appropriately is a bit BS.

I'm not pigeon holed here, I have the other classes to go to. However I just hate to see my prefered playstyle destroyed for no good reason.

When I opened this thread, the first thing that came into my mind was when my group faced you at Brk a couple days ago. We got the outter main door down and then you kept coming from behind trying to pick on people in my group. I chased you 6 times in a row from the door to the Sejanus's field spamming caltrops. You would run away altering between cloaking and dodge rolling (with the major expedition passive from bow) to make you reappear from cloak 25-30yards away from where you initially cloaked.

Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Revealing Flare, Radian Mage Light of the actual meta would not change anything. Not even going to talk about the fact that you could use Cloak at least 15times in a row during the whole time I chased you down as a Stam nightblade.

I have only read the first 2 pages of this thread but there is one thing that I'm pretty sure no one has talked about so far regarding the cloak mechanic in this game. Yes of course, ZOS decided that there would be no cooldown in this game which made it appealing for alot of people. What you may not realized is that in the most popular mmo in the world, Cloak, being known as Vanish has a 2 minutes cooldown. In this game, it is not even an ultimate with a cheap cost. It is an ability which can be spammed over and over, yet people complain that Mage Light and Revealing Flare keeping the target out of stealth for 5 seconds after being revealed is overpowered? Go back to Mario Bros.

It's not just 5 seconds...now that you mention spamming, that's what you can do with radiant Magelight. So, actually you can reveal them indefinitely.

Why does cloak need a cooldown when there are so many ways to counter it? All aoes pop NBs out of cloak. This is getting ridiculous. How many counters to cloak do people need? There are no other skills in the game with as many counters specifically designed for it than cloak and it's still not good enough. People still can't figure it out. This, to me, is more about other classes being vindictive. It isn't even about balance anymore. It's about who can get who nerfed into the ground next. So here we are. NB is the latest casualty in the Nerf Wars. Which class or fun aspect of the game is next? The game is steadily becoming less and less fun. It's becoming bland with all combat becoming homogenized. I know I'm starting to lose interest. Just when I was starting to think the game was getting on the right track. I should've known better.

SkylarkAU · February 2016

Some of you guys need to realise whats already possible on live before you freak out about what's coming down the line.. Cloak means nothing against this kind of build

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPeRNSBRCvU

Alorier · February 2016

The battlefield will be littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades can't wait

Lava_Croft · February 2016

davidtxr wrote: »

The battlefield will be littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades can't wait

If your battlefield isn't littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades yet, you are doing something very, very wrong. It's the class that's easiest to kill, unless you are the type of complete scrub that ZOS seems to want to balance ESO around.

GreenSoup2HoT · February 2016

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Seeker build made a lot more powerful in this patch. May not even need to slot Magelight both bars, just sword and board side before chasing after those pesky NBs. It still loses part of its passive ability that makes it a walking detection pot though.

I used this exact build on my nightblade. We think alike.

However the new radiant mage light with ruin the sentry RML combo. Unless you plan on running around spamming RML every 5 second's....

I personally hate this new mage light change. Not because of cloak but because it ruins are build's.

Junkogen · February 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

davidtxr wrote: »

The battlefield will be littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades can't wait

If your battlefield isn't littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades yet, you are doing something very, very wrong. It's the class that's easiest to kill, unless you are the type of complete scrub that ZOS seems to want to balance ESO around.

QFT

Alorier · February 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

davidtxr wrote: »

The battlefield will be littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades can't wait

If your battlefield isn't littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades yet, you are doing something very, very wrong. It's the class that's easiest to kill, unless you are the type of complete scrub that ZOS seems to want to balance ESO around.
[/

Lol too funny

HeroOfNone · February 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Seeker build made a lot more powerful in this patch. May not even need to slot Magelight both bars, just sword and board side before chasing after those pesky NBs. It still loses part of its passive ability that makes it a walking detection pot though.

I used this exact build on my nightblade. We think alike.

However the new radiant mage light with ruin the sentry RML combo. Unless you plan on running around spamming RML every 5 second's....

I personally hate this new mage light change. Not because of cloak but because it ruins are build's.

I always ignored the +20% damage to stealthed targets, it always seemed buggy to me in delivering the damage. But this still helps though, using sentry for the passive ping, then Magelight for the moderate ping, and then detection pots for the long range. Remember it all stacks, so you can pop that detect pot and then use mage light to tag someone coming in and out just on the edge of your vision

Autolycus · February 2016

catalyst10e wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

L2P use radiant magelight.

Yes, now I think a lot of ppl will.

Cry more NB gankers we probably lost a lot of players in Cyrodiil and IC to u

This is bigger than whatever gripe you have with NB cloak. In magelight current form it also negates invisibility pots and an ULTIMATE ability.
Magelight is SO good atm that most magicka builds will run it. There's far too great a risk for someone to waste 200 base Ultimate on a Clouding Swarm if it's negated by the press of a button. That morph will be very much not viable. Vamps have a hard enough time in Cyro atm being big fat targets for one shot builds without this.

Most magicka builds hell!

During our testing I was able to cast is every 4 seconds and regen to full, while chasing a magicka nb. This was with 1200 magica regen on a stamina spec.

EVERYONE will run it. There is literally no reason not to run Radiant over Inner in pvp. +5% magicka is chicken scratch compared to -50% stealth damage and immunity to stealth stuns and empower without needing a target.. I know I will have it on even my stamina gankers.

It's just how every single nightblade is running cloak atm, and everyone would be running it if it was a skill available to everyone, I mean what's not to like with a free pass to not get killed with the push of a button 90% of the time?

Spoken like someone who hasn't played a NB. Take that 90% success rate and drop it to 20%, and that's what cloak really is. Or *was*.

look it's obvious RML wasnt the counter you NB claimed it was... do you know how I know that? because no body was using it. Even if you were to take away the "empower on demand" aspect, and bring it back to being a toggle effect, the real issue NBs seem to have is the fact it keeps you from going stealth when you're discovered, which, according to you guys, didn't matter because being discovered meant "instant death" becuz you guys were "so squishy" and "not OP at all". If your real issue is that you can't cloak immediately when you're hit with a single attack, you're using cloak as a crutch and you're probably the type of player who contributed to magelight getting this update.

For the record, I don't even use cloak when I pvp, and there are a great deal of people who can attest to that.

My argument is that "balance" does not mean preventing an entire class from casting their skill. There are plenty of other ways to go about rebalancing cloak. For starters, they could have made it so RML functioned the same way as detect pots, and allowed one to still see someone who is invisible. Not prevent them from using the skill altogether.

And yes, cloak is a crutch. Every class had a crutch, and now one doesn't. Ward, BoL, Flappy Wings - all crutches. There have been a multitude of ways to counter cloak outside of RML, by the way. I've been teaching people how to do it for months. The inability to counter cloak has and always will stem from a lack of understanding of the class.

If you don't use cloak in PVP then this change doesn't effect you. Perhaps you could then start to teach those who use cloak as a crutch how to play without it, instead of teaching people how to counter it.

Not every ability should have a counter to it, what's the counter to camo hunter? what's the counter to extended chains? What's the counter to BoL? Some abilities should have a counter in placed tho, such is the case with Reflective scale/defensive stance. With all the stelath movement speed bonuses and purge effect, and abuse with magblades extended/forever cloak, the ability to completely replenish resources while hiding from the enemy who is wasting resources looking for you, made it an ability that earned it's place at the top of the list of skills that needed to be looked at. The devs explained that it wasnt mechanically like streak and therefor couldn't receive the same treatment of an increase in cost. so instead the counters in place that didn't work well enough get a buff. Again, it's mechanically doing what it did before, it's finding people in stealth, it's range is 1m bigger than steel tornado, so what are you doing allowing someone to get that close? what this stops is those who hit you for burst, fear and then cloak to burst you again. So now you will just have to fight them for a couple of extra seconds before you fear and cloak up again I suppose. too many people were misusing cloak, just like too many sorcs were misusing streak... but instead of nerfing the cloak, they buffed the counter(s).

If anything, with RML having to be cast now, there's going to be less people with it just "on" all the time. which increases the chance of it just being used to find someone, or when you already got hit from the initial burst. and since NBs love to snare or root you in place, there was no option before to find them before the next burst came, so now it'll keep you from cloaking up giving your opponent a reasonable chance to react.

You'll probably be surprised that I generally agree with you, actually. My argument in this thread is very narrowly focused. I never said that cloak didn't need to be adjusted, and you're right, this change has very little impact on my specific build since I don't run cloak in pvp. But that doesn't change the fact that there are now multiple ways to prevent an entire class from casting a skill. Prevent NBs from re-entering stealth - that's totally okay imho. The problem I have with this is that for months people have been complaining about how overpowered the NB passives are, but they tied that argument specifically to cloak, which is arguably the most effective (and in most cases the only viable) means of accessing those passives. Yes, there are other means of gaining the passives, but it's not like casting a rune focus or a razor armor.

Every other class has the ability to grant themselves Major Ward and Resolve on a whim and unconditionally. NBs have always been limited to accessing their Ward and Resolve through the use of cloak. Admittedly, the ability to access those passives, purge all DoTs, break line of sight, and cause attacks to miss is overkill. And it is for this reason you've already seen me attest to the fact that the changes to cloak itself are fine.

The second you start giving everyone in the game the ability to prevent an entire class from casting a skill, rather than making the use of that skill less meaningful, you throw balance completely out the window. Magelight and Flare should never prevent someone from using a class ability. Do something else with it - make it like detect pots, where you can just see the person, or make it so they can't re-enter stealth, but don't skill lock an entire class.

In practice I'm sure it's not as bad as it sounds. The reveal portion of magelight has a very short range, and arguably the ultimate goal here to make NBs who intend to flee work for it. I get that, and it's a reasonable perspective. I still argue that the use of cloak should be largely diminished when near someone using this counter, not be completely unable to even cast the skill because you're too close.

AllPlayAndNoWork · February 2016

Pomaikai wrote: »

Wait, you mean the NB ganking is now just a wee bit more difficult?

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

About freaking time.

There goes a player touched inappropriately by a NB.....

Therium104 · February 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

davidtxr wrote: »

The battlefield will be littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades can't wait

If your battlefield isn't littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades yet, you are doing something very, very wrong. It's the class that's easiest to kill, unless you are the type of complete scrub that ZOS seems to want to balance ESO around.

You play a NB and calling others scrub? Many of us have been playing MMO for years and the ESO NB is by far the easiest and most broken OP stealth class in the history of gaming. It takes absolutely no skill to play as a NB. It is embarassing this class exists in the game in its current state. A bright wizard in Warhammer took more skill to play and that is a low bar. Trust me.

Cloak should have a minute cool down at least. Wtf.... it is insane. How can you play this class. I started playing ESO in pc launch and stopped playing because picked a DK and it was so overpowered quit the game due to boredom.

You actually enjoy hiding and spamming a few abilities to kill another player 99% of the time with absolutely no skill. The other player dies so fast cannot even react. It would be more fun to attack dps dummies. And on top of this you actually defend it. My god man.

frozywozy · February 2016

Here is my personal opinion about how the stealth mechanics in Cyrodiil should have been addressed since a long time ago (I know most people won't agree about the cloaking change but I just can't stand any kind of ganking from stealth and the unrealistic aspect of hiding in openfield) :

Cloak should be an ultimate that works the same way as Overload (excluding the overload bar). It should not remove snares or dots, but absorb all damage when cloak is active.

Mage Light should give you 5% more magicka (passive). It should also give you stealth detection inside an 8 yards range for 20 seconds (active). No mechanic to prevent anybody from going invisible again (as long as they stand outside of the 8 yards range).

Radiant Mage Light should add 56% damage mitigation from stealth attacks, give immunity to stuns from stealth and increase the detection range to 15 yards for 20 seconds (active).

Inner Light should give Major Prophecy for 20 seconds (active).

Revealing Flare projectile speed should be increased slightly. Revealing Flare should put a debuff on revealed target(s) preventing them from going back into stealth for 5 seconds (purgable).

eventide03b14a_ESO · February 2016

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Anyone test Inner Light on the PTS?

That patch notes made it sound like it is no longer a toggle, and gives Spell Crit and 5% magicka for being slotted...

So what does the actual ability do now when you activate it?

It does, and it is, and also, use it. Goodbye Nightblades, we hardly knew ye.

Reevster · February 2016

Poor NBs, much QQing.....

HeroOfNone · February 2016

Let's be honest on what some nightblades are upset about, you won't be able to escape reliably and 1vX indefinitely.

Sorry you're in the position that Dragon Knights and Templars have been since the start of the game. Because of this change you may want to consider a magic build with some heals, or maybe use rally & vigor to keep that health up rather than go full damage.

Don't worry, your burst is still one of the best in the game and you still have the ability to spam that ambush button. Just don't get yourself greedy and assume you can stealth through a warband now and not get caught.

catalyst10e · February 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

L2P use radiant magelight.

Yes, now I think a lot of ppl will.

Cry more NB gankers we probably lost a lot of players in Cyrodiil and IC to u

This is bigger than whatever gripe you have with NB cloak. In magelight current form it also negates invisibility pots and an ULTIMATE ability.
Magelight is SO good atm that most magicka builds will run it. There's far too great a risk for someone to waste 200 base Ultimate on a Clouding Swarm if it's negated by the press of a button. That morph will be very much not viable. Vamps have a hard enough time in Cyro atm being big fat targets for one shot builds without this.

Most magicka builds hell!

During our testing I was able to cast is every 4 seconds and regen to full, while chasing a magicka nb. This was with 1200 magica regen on a stamina spec.

EVERYONE will run it. There is literally no reason not to run Radiant over Inner in pvp. +5% magicka is chicken scratch compared to -50% stealth damage and immunity to stealth stuns and empower without needing a target.. I know I will have it on even my stamina gankers.

It's just how every single nightblade is running cloak atm, and everyone would be running it if it was a skill available to everyone, I mean what's not to like with a free pass to not get killed with the push of a button 90% of the time?

Spoken like someone who hasn't played a NB. Take that 90% success rate and drop it to 20%, and that's what cloak really is. Or *was*.

look it's obvious RML wasnt the counter you NB claimed it was... do you know how I know that? because no body was using it. Even if you were to take away the "empower on demand" aspect, and bring it back to being a toggle effect, the real issue NBs seem to have is the fact it keeps you from going stealth when you're discovered, which, according to you guys, didn't matter because being discovered meant "instant death" becuz you guys were "so squishy" and "not OP at all". If your real issue is that you can't cloak immediately when you're hit with a single attack, you're using cloak as a crutch and you're probably the type of player who contributed to magelight getting this update.

For the record, I don't even use cloak when I pvp, and there are a great deal of people who can attest to that.

My argument is that "balance" does not mean preventing an entire class from casting their skill. There are plenty of other ways to go about rebalancing cloak. For starters, they could have made it so RML functioned the same way as detect pots, and allowed one to still see someone who is invisible. Not prevent them from using the skill altogether.

And yes, cloak is a crutch. Every class had a crutch, and now one doesn't. Ward, BoL, Flappy Wings - all crutches. There have been a multitude of ways to counter cloak outside of RML, by the way. I've been teaching people how to do it for months. The inability to counter cloak has and always will stem from a lack of understanding of the class.

If you don't use cloak in PVP then this change doesn't effect you. Perhaps you could then start to teach those who use cloak as a crutch how to play without it, instead of teaching people how to counter it.

Not every ability should have a counter to it, what's the counter to camo hunter? what's the counter to extended chains? What's the counter to BoL? Some abilities should have a counter in placed tho, such is the case with Reflective scale/defensive stance. With all the stelath movement speed bonuses and purge effect, and abuse with magblades extended/forever cloak, the ability to completely replenish resources while hiding from the enemy who is wasting resources looking for you, made it an ability that earned it's place at the top of the list of skills that needed to be looked at. The devs explained that it wasnt mechanically like streak and therefor couldn't receive the same treatment of an increase in cost. so instead the counters in place that didn't work well enough get a buff. Again, it's mechanically doing what it did before, it's finding people in stealth, it's range is 1m bigger than steel tornado, so what are you doing allowing someone to get that close? what this stops is those who hit you for burst, fear and then cloak to burst you again. So now you will just have to fight them for a couple of extra seconds before you fear and cloak up again I suppose. too many people were misusing cloak, just like too many sorcs were misusing streak... but instead of nerfing the cloak, they buffed the counter(s).

If anything, with RML having to be cast now, there's going to be less people with it just "on" all the time. which increases the chance of it just being used to find someone, or when you already got hit from the initial burst. and since NBs love to snare or root you in place, there was no option before to find them before the next burst came, so now it'll keep you from cloaking up giving your opponent a reasonable chance to react.

You'll probably be surprised that I generally agree with you, actually. My argument in this thread is very narrowly focused. I never said that cloak didn't need to be adjusted, and you're right, this change has very little impact on my specific build since I don't run cloak in pvp. But that doesn't change the fact that there are now multiple ways to prevent an entire class from casting a skill. Prevent NBs from re-entering stealth - that's totally okay imho. The problem I have with this is that for months people have been complaining about how overpowered the NB passives are, but they tied that argument specifically to cloak, which is arguably the most effective (and in most cases the only viable) means of accessing those passives. Yes, there are other means of gaining the passives, but it's not like casting a rune focus or a razor armor.

Every other class has the ability to grant themselves Major Ward and Resolve on a whim and unconditionally. NBs have always been limited to accessing their Ward and Resolve through the use of cloak. Admittedly, the ability to access those passives, purge all DoTs, break line of sight, and cause attacks to miss is overkill. And it is for this reason you've already seen me attest to the fact that the changes to cloak itself are fine.

The second you start giving everyone in the game the ability to prevent an entire class from casting a skill, rather than making the use of that skill less meaningful, you throw balance completely out the window. Magelight and Flare should never prevent someone from using a class ability. Do something else with it - make it like detect pots, where you can just see the person, or make it so they can't re-enter stealth, but don't skill lock an entire class.

In practice I'm sure it's not as bad as it sounds. The reveal portion of magelight has a very short range, and arguably the ultimate goal here to make NBs who intend to flee work for it. I get that, and it's a reasonable perspective. I still argue that the use of cloak should be largely diminished when near someone using this counter, not be completely unable to even cast the skill because you're too close.

I'm not surprised at all, you're largly one of the more competent and reasonable people on here. I will use reflective scales for an example, it reflects projectiles for 4 seconds. Roughly the same time as magelight. I'm aware it's not the same since not everyone has access to the class ability, but just go with it a moment. My indication that a DK has slotted this skill, usualy comes in the form of my own frag flying back at me at 35% higher damage. Ok. lesson learned, he has reflect. While reflect is active, I'm locked out from using 90% of my damage dealing skills. The one I can use, curse, is not spamable, So I'm locked out of dealing any burst damage at all for 4 seconds. I've since adapted, by counting it out and timing the attacks, or simply turning tail and running away to gain some distance. With the upgrade to DK abilities and DoTs, we'll probably start seeing more of them out there. I know the exact scenario these NBs fear, and I've been living it for some time now. You adapt. Now put that on a grand scale where even 75% of the playerbase has access to reflect, and yeah I'll swap out some projectile damage with other skills like entropy, or use a destro staff on the back bar.

People started with saying all NBs were the problem, then discussion was had, and it came to light it's mostly the Magicka NBs people really hated, and then it was discovered the real issue people had was spamming cloak. so then came all the nerf cloak threads, which became worse after streak got it's nerf so people were calling for the same treatment. The 2 things I heard the most from NBs were 1: l2p, theres tons of counters, and 2: the NB class is not OP it's perfect, it's the standard by which all other classes should be brought up to. The first point is always met with ridicule as the "checks" to cloak are largely garbage, and on top of that no other class was asking you to hinder yourself just to attempt to counter them. To be clear im aware some idiots were treating it like "why should I have to change my skills just to fight NB" but the real problem was that even when you did counter themw ith say RML or caltrops, they jumped right back into cloak within a split second. So you try and stay on top of them but because of the movement passives wasnt totally viable. The only real counter to a NB was another NB, which just made it worse out there... people hated being ganked by NB, so they made a NB, and other made a NB to counter other NBs.... Theres an overpopulation of them and there's no denying that. So instead of nerfing cloak, or NBs in general, the counter was made better, thus ascending the other classes trying to compete to the level of NB. It's literally the 2 things NB were asking for. RML is not longer a drawback, it's an excellent counter to cloak, and all it's really doing now is keeping a NB IN the fight instead of allowing them to cloak away, theres still plenty of skills available to get away if you need to. RML was meant to be proactive but it wasnt doing it's job, now it's reactive.

You and I both agree to the point that removing the hit-and-run tactics is the real goal here. As you have said and I have said before, the range is pretty minimal, it's 12m, when steel tornado is 11m, someone whos that close was bound to find you anyways, and if you waited till that moment to try and cloak away again, you don't deserve to get away really. The Meta at the moment has a huge population of NB and if anything, this "over-buff" of a single skill will is just do population control and remove a large portion of those who were misusing or relying entirely on cloak.

Xeniph · February 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

davidtxr wrote: »

The battlefield will be littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades can't wait

If your battlefield isn't littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades yet, you are doing something very, very wrong. It's the class that's easiest to kill, unless you are the type of complete scrub that ZOS seems to want to balance ESO around.

You play a NB and calling others scrub? Many of us have been playing MMO for years and the ESO NB is by far the easiest and most broken OP stealth class in the history of gaming. It takes absolutely no skill to play as a NB. It is embarassing this class exists in the game in its current state. A bright wizard in Warhammer took more skill to play and that is a low bar. Trust me.

Cloak should have a minute cool down at least. Wtf.... it is insane. How can you play this class. I started playing ESO in pc launch and stopped playing because picked a DK and it was so overpowered quit the game due to boredom.

You actually enjoy hiding and spamming a few abilities to kill another player 99% of the time with absolutely no skill. The other player dies so fast cannot even react. It would be more fun to attack dps dummies. And on top of this you actually defend it. My god man.

Actually the Infiltraitor in DAoC would wupp a NB's arse. Those massive stun chains with no break free.

And no, it's nowhere near as easy as a Bright Wizzard of Warhammer.

I too have played MMO's a LONG time, and coincidentally, I almost excluseivly played the stealth portions of games. Yes cloak needed to be changed, it was entirely too easy to use. However, they can't just fundamentally change the way a class plays, without adjusting more in the game, or compensating them somehow.

And I really wish people would stop with the whole "Spam" thing. MANY abilities are spammed and they should be. Whip is a nice attack, do you complain when a DK kills you with it? Hardened Ward is a nice ability, do you complain a Sorc spams it when in trouble? (probably)

My point is, what does it matter what they are "spamming" the end result is you died. And I doubt it would make you feel any better if there were a couple diff abilities on your death recap.

"You actually enjoy grouping and spamming a few abilities to kill another player 99% of the time with absolutely no skill. The other player dies so fast cannot even react. It would be more fun to attack dps dummies. And on top of this you actually defend it. My god man."

See what I did there? It's all a matter of perspective. I think running in a group requires no skill, and boring as all get out. Now leading one does..that's a pain and underappreciated. I'll also counter that it doesn't take "skill" to do anything in a video game, especially one with a total of 12 skill slots. This is by far the easies game I have ever played in that respect. CC break on demand, active blocking and player initiated roll dodging.

So, while I can appreciate your opinion and support your right to have one. Cyrodiil is NOT your personal playground and while you may not like or agree. The stealth playstyle has just as much right to be as viable as all playstyles.

ScruffyWhiskers · February 2016

To quote Agent Smith "I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here."

Having played through a little of the Thieves Guild content I am beginning to think that maybe the new mechanics of the DLC are what was driving the changes to cloak and how it reacts to mage light, detect pots, mark target etc. i.e. it's grayed out an unusable. NB's would basically have it too easy with all the "challenges" and quests that are in the DLC. So once detected by the NPC the cloak has to be neutralized or else it's an instant escape. I know that when I did the very first quest for the TG DLC, I got detected once and got that no stealth swirling globes icon over my head. Cloak didn't work.

Sureshawt · February 2016

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Its just a classic over reach.

Yes, cloak was OP in some ways. A reasonable change would be a cost increase per cast so that it can't be spammed.

But now you create an ability that is much more OP. What ability can anyone slot in this game which provides the following?

1) Give 10% spell crit just for being slotted
2) Gives 56% damage reduction from stealth attacks for being slotted
3) Gives immunity to stuns from stealth for being slotted
4) Adds 2% Max Mag and Mag Regen for being slotted
5) Gives 12 meters of Stealth Detection when activated
6) Grants Empower when activated

This ability is so powerful that everyone will use it. It will make Stealth attacks for all players irrelevant, not just cloak. It will make some classes more powerful, but will make Mag Sorcs OP.

I'm just proposing they revisit this. Maybe take away the damage reduction from stealth, or don't let it grant empower when used. Or leave Magelight the way it is, and do a cost increase to cloak. Don't replace something that is OP with something that is more OP.

This^

I believe they did this to address the StamNB gank builds that bring so much complaining but the reality is they missed the target. Gank builds rarely needed to pop cloak after engaging a target. Gank builds are designed to kill targets quickly before they can hardly even react and then return to the shadows. Magelight wont effect this style of play unless they draw attention from other players nearby.

Unfortunately with this change I have to retool my NB from skirmish build to sniper/gank build. I'm doing exactly that unless I can find some way to adapt but since their is no counter to magelight I doubt this is possible.

ScruffyWhiskers · February 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

You play a NB and calling others scrub? Many of us have been playing MMO for years and the ESO NB is by far the easiest and most broken OP stealth class in the history of gaming. It takes absolutely no skill to play as a NB. It is embarassing this class exists in the game in its current state. A bright wizard in Warhammer took more skill to play and that is a low bar. Trust me.

Cloak should have a minute cool down at least. Wtf.... it is insane. How can you play this class. I started playing ESO in pc launch and stopped playing because picked a DK and it was so overpowered quit the game due to boredom.

You actually enjoy hiding and spamming a few abilities to kill another player 99% of the time with absolutely no skill. The other player dies so fast cannot even react. It would be more fun to attack dps dummies. And on top of this you actually defend it. My god man.

I don't even know where to start with this biased rant. So just some basic objections/observations.

Your appeal to authority is lame. Many of us? History of gaming? Trust me?

You were a bat swarming DK god and making mountains out of our skulls just got too boring?

I think you forgot to mention how many times you were Emperor.

Spam. Spam. Spam. Spam. Spamalot. Sometimes one button works pretty well especially if the design is pushing you in that direction. This spam complaint is really annoying. As if mixing up your button presses just for the sake of mixing them up is somehow more "skilled."

Which brings up this whole stupid "skill" idea that many people who play pvp have. News flash. You are not an athlete or a musician. Your ping is a huge factor as is your rig, you toon's gear, who you are running with etc. Note, I'm not saying that "skill" or things like situational awareness, reflexes or spatial reasoning are not important, but they are not the only factors in play here.

You also somehow seem to have some aesthetic bias against certain play styles. Guess what? If cloak works to achieve certain results within the framework of a game's mechanic, then using it is "skilled."

t's stupid for some classes and builds to run up to Skaffa, pound on him with everybody else and then die when he hits you. Same goes for chasing a sorc out into the wilderness.

So yes, I do enjoy hiding and even running away after I have bitten off more than I can chew. You seem determined to make sure that I should be punished for wanting to play that way.

Autolycus · February 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

davidtxr wrote: »

The battlefield will be littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades can't wait

If your battlefield isn't littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades yet, you are doing something very, very wrong. It's the class that's easiest to kill, unless you are the type of complete scrub that ZOS seems to want to balance ESO around.

You play a NB and calling others scrub? Many of us have been playing MMO for years and the ESO NB is by far the easiest and most broken OP stealth class in the history of gaming. It takes absolutely no skill to play as a NB. It is embarassing this class exists in the game in its current state. A bright wizard in Warhammer took more skill to play and that is a low bar. Trust me.

Cloak should have a minute cool down at least. Wtf.... it is insane. How can you play this class. I started playing ESO in pc launch and stopped playing because picked a DK and it was so overpowered quit the game due to boredom.

You actually enjoy hiding and spamming a few abilities to kill another player 99% of the time with absolutely no skill. The other player dies so fast cannot even react. It would be more fun to attack dps dummies. And on top of this you actually defend it. My god man.

Your views on the NB class are incredibly narrow-minded. It's clear that you lack a thorough understanding of the mechanics and the versatility within the class to provide an objective perspective on the situation, so you'll understand why this doesn't carry a lot of merit. Most of what you've said is highly subjective, and it's difficult to take seriously an opinion in which the justification of the perspective itself is unfairly biased.

Allow me to enlighten you. The majority of NBs which are complained about on these forums are perma-cloaking and stacking high enough damage to instantly kill other players. Two things I would note here: First, not every NB plays this way, and you never see QQ threads about people who play the class in various other ways. Second, your extreme views of people who prefer this playstyle aren't going to change the nature of the situation. You can hate that playstyle as much as you want, but it exists, and people are going to play that way and enjoy it. Disliking how the rogue archetype functions in this game is one thing, but criticizing other players for their preferred playstyle is not within your rights.

People on these forums need to stop viewing everyone else who plays this game as a natural-born enemy. It is reasonable and just for everyone to be balanced, and while many of the people on this specific thread disagree with your opinions, a small percentage of them actually believe the changes and nerfs are completely without merit. If those people can admit that rebalancing is important and can sincerely note where the class could benefit from improvements, then there is no reason you can't maintain an open mind as well. Calling everyone who plays a NB a skill-less scrub, who plays the "most broken stealth class in the history of MMOs" is a gross over-exaggeration, and stoops to a level of immaturity unworthy of these forums.

Xeniph · February 2016

Sureshawt wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Its just a classic over reach.

Yes, cloak was OP in some ways. A reasonable change would be a cost increase per cast so that it can't be spammed.

But now you create an ability that is much more OP. What ability can anyone slot in this game which provides the following?

1) Give 10% spell crit just for being slotted
2) Gives 56% damage reduction from stealth attacks for being slotted
3) Gives immunity to stuns from stealth for being slotted
4) Adds 2% Max Mag and Mag Regen for being slotted
5) Gives 12 meters of Stealth Detection when activated
6) Grants Empower when activated

This ability is so powerful that everyone will use it. It will make Stealth attacks for all players irrelevant, not just cloak. It will make some classes more powerful, but will make Mag Sorcs OP.

I'm just proposing they revisit this. Maybe take away the damage reduction from stealth, or don't let it grant empower when used. Or leave Magelight the way it is, and do a cost increase to cloak. Don't replace something that is OP with something that is more OP.

This^

I believe they did this to address the StamNB gank builds that bring so much complaining but the reality is they missed the target. Gank builds rarely needed to pop cloak after engaging a target. Gank builds are designed to kill targets quickly before they can hardly even react and then return to the shadows. Magelight wont effect this style of play unless they draw attention from other players nearby.

Unfortunately with this change I have to retool my NB from skirmish build to sniper/gank build. I'm doing exactly that unless I can find some way to adapt but since their is no counter to magelight I doubt this is possible.

I'd like to also add one more benefit to the skill that is often overlooked.

7) Usable while in stealth, not revealing you.

Anyone, all builds that run small scale/solo would be brain dead not to run this.