Helluin wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

It shouldn't lock you out of invisibility. Cloak is a spell just like magelight. I don't understand why there's not a slottable anti-shield ability, or anti-relfect. There's all this backlash against cloak, but nothing for shield stacking or shields at all. A CP star is hardly comparable to an ability that does so much as the new Magelight. Before radiant magelight had a counter, cloak, now it has no counter. The devs are hypocrites in this case. They profess to want counters for abilities and then create something like radiant magelight which now has no counter. All the other aspects of this new ability don't bother me as much. It's the fact that they eliminated any counter, thus tipping the imbalance back the other way. Buff magelight, fine, but don't give it no counter. NB don't have powerful class shields, flappy wings, and burst self-heals. It's not fair to completely cripple our one unique defense. Especially if they're going to keep the passive affects without an indicator. At least allow some type of counter.

I just think they went too far.

There is an anti reflect now, meteor, and for anti shield, shield breaker.

Comparing Magelight to Shield Breaker...

Slow clap.

Indeed.
A set working against invisibility would have been a lot better.

Shield breaker is a trade off:
it's a set less powerful than other ones, it has a specific goal so you can bypass damage shields but against other targets is useless.

Magelight is not a trade off:
it's already a core skill in many builds because of its buffs, it now has again empower usable out of combat (irony... it will be a must have for stealthers - gankers), magicka cost is cheap, it has now also the huge extra to reveal stealthers and to negate invisibility (an entire mechanic, skills, passive skills and an ultimate).
It's good both for damage and healing, it's good against every target and amazing for stealth and invisibility.
It's too much for just one skill without any trade off.

P.s. Be prepared for "nerf Snipe, nerf ranged heavy attacks" threads.

QFT

You're right they could have made a set to combat stealth and invisibility. Instead they just made it obsolete with a slottable ability too good to pass up. It is truly the Age of the Sorcerer. Cyrodiil is going to be littered with Altmer mage anythings. This is how the Thalmor take over.

Derra wrote: »

The problem is ZOS does not want to put an end to ganking. Bowgank is going to be stronger than ever with clever alchemist + 8% bowdmg set in pvp.

ZOS does not want people to escape. They have proven this with numerous bolt escape nerfs and they´re proving that again with these changes.

I repeat: my DK loves this

so like it was not op before, when you can cloak as many times as you wanted and reset the battle as many times as you wanted..? De-aggro the world, and bosses.. bosses should allowed to de-aggroo

themdogesbite wrote: »

I didn't readn through the thread, but i've been told by people testing it that activateing magelight REVEALS someone in clouding swarm.. Like wth is the point of that moprh if that is intended..

Working as intended, everyone knows zenimax hates vamps.....

revonine wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

L2P use radiant magelight.

Yes, now I think a lot of ppl will.

Cry more NB gankers we probably lost a lot of players in Cyrodiil and IC to u

This is bigger than whatever gripe you have with NB cloak. In magelight current form it also negates invisibility pots and an ULTIMATE ability.
Magelight is SO good atm that most magicka builds will run it. There's far too great a risk for someone to waste 200 base Ultimate on a Clouding Swarm if it's negated by the press of a button. That morph will be very much not viable. Vamps have a hard enough time in Cyro atm being big fat targets for one shot builds without this.

Most magicka builds hell!

During our testing I was able to cast is every 4 seconds and regen to full, while chasing a magicka nb. This was with 1200 magica regen on a stamina spec.

EVERYONE will run it. There is literally no reason not to run Radiant over Inner in pvp. +5% magicka is chicken scratch compared to -50% stealth damage and immunity to stealth stuns and empower without needing a target.. I know I will have it on even my stamina gankers.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

L2P use radiant magelight.

Yes, now I think a lot of ppl will.

Cry more NB gankers we probably lost a lot of players in Cyrodiil and IC to u

This is bigger than whatever gripe you have with NB cloak. In magelight current form it also negates invisibility pots and an ULTIMATE ability.
Magelight is SO good atm that most magicka builds will run it. There's far too great a risk for someone to waste 200 base Ultimate on a Clouding Swarm if it's negated by the press of a button. That morph will be very much not viable. Vamps have a hard enough time in Cyro atm being big fat targets for one shot builds without this.

Most magicka builds hell!

During our testing I was able to cast is every 4 seconds and regen to full, while chasing a magicka nb. This was with 1200 magica regen on a stamina spec.

EVERYONE will run it. There is literally no reason not to run Radiant over Inner in pvp. +5% magicka is chicken scratch compared to -50% stealth damage and immunity to stealth stuns and empower without needing a target.. I know I will have it on even my stamina gankers.

It's just how every single nightblade is running cloak atm, and everyone would be running it if it was a skill available to everyone, I mean what's not to like with a free pass to not get killed with the push of a button 90% of the time?

But is that balance?

Meh. Haven played every single class both magicka/stamina, the radiant buff + cloak nerf is just way over the top.

Seeker build made a lot more powerful in this patch. May not even need to slot Magelight both bars, just sword and board side before chasing after those pesky NBs. It still loses part of its passive ability that makes it a walking detection pot though.

Egreed, magelight shouldnt work like this. 12m radius is to much and its break NB mechanics at all. BTW sorcs buffed again.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

L2P use radiant magelight.

Yes, now I think a lot of ppl will.

Cry more NB gankers we probably lost a lot of players in Cyrodiil and IC to u

This is bigger than whatever gripe you have with NB cloak. In magelight current form it also negates invisibility pots and an ULTIMATE ability.
Magelight is SO good atm that most magicka builds will run it. There's far too great a risk for someone to waste 200 base Ultimate on a Clouding Swarm if it's negated by the press of a button. That morph will be very much not viable. Vamps have a hard enough time in Cyro atm being big fat targets for one shot builds without this.

Most magicka builds hell!

During our testing I was able to cast is every 4 seconds and regen to full, while chasing a magicka nb. This was with 1200 magica regen on a stamina spec.

EVERYONE will run it. There is literally no reason not to run Radiant over Inner in pvp. +5% magicka is chicken scratch compared to -50% stealth damage and immunity to stealth stuns and empower without needing a target.. I know I will have it on even my stamina gankers.

It's just how every single nightblade is running cloak atm, and everyone would be running it if it was a skill available to everyone, I mean what's not to like with a free pass to not get killed with the push of a button 90% of the time?

Spoken like someone who hasn't played a NB. Take that 90% success rate and drop it to 20%, and that's what cloak really is. Or *was*.

Cloak spam wouldn't be necessary to begin with if sneaking worked properly. Heaven forbid you attack someone without killing them, you'll never go dark again.

catalyst10e wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

L2P use radiant magelight.

Yes, now I think a lot of ppl will.

Cry more NB gankers we probably lost a lot of players in Cyrodiil and IC to u

This is bigger than whatever gripe you have with NB cloak. In magelight current form it also negates invisibility pots and an ULTIMATE ability.
Magelight is SO good atm that most magicka builds will run it. There's far too great a risk for someone to waste 200 base Ultimate on a Clouding Swarm if it's negated by the press of a button. That morph will be very much not viable. Vamps have a hard enough time in Cyro atm being big fat targets for one shot builds without this.

Most magicka builds hell!

During our testing I was able to cast is every 4 seconds and regen to full, while chasing a magicka nb. This was with 1200 magica regen on a stamina spec.

EVERYONE will run it. There is literally no reason not to run Radiant over Inner in pvp. +5% magicka is chicken scratch compared to -50% stealth damage and immunity to stealth stuns and empower without needing a target.. I know I will have it on even my stamina gankers.

It's just how every single nightblade is running cloak atm, and everyone would be running it if it was a skill available to everyone, I mean what's not to like with a free pass to not get killed with the push of a button 90% of the time?

Spoken like someone who hasn't played a NB. Take that 90% success rate and drop it to 20%, and that's what cloak really is. Or *was*.

look it's obvious RML wasnt the counter you NB claimed it was... do you know how I know that? because no body was using it. Even if you were to take away the "empower on demand" aspect, and bring it back to being a toggle effect, the real issue NBs seem to have is the fact it keeps you from going stealth when you're discovered, which, according to you guys, didn't matter because being discovered meant "instant death" becuz you guys were "so squishy" and "not OP at all". If your real issue is that you can't cloak immediately when you're hit with a single attack, you're using cloak as a crutch and you're probably the type of player who contributed to magelight getting this update.

For the record, I don't even use cloak when I pvp, and there are a great deal of people who can attest to that.

My argument is that "balance" does not mean preventing an entire class from casting their skill. There are plenty of other ways to go about rebalancing cloak. For starters, they could have made it so RML functioned the same way as detect pots, and allowed one to still see someone who is invisible. Not prevent them from using the skill altogether.

And yes, cloak is a crutch. Every class had a crutch, and now one doesn't. Ward, BoL, Flappy Wings - all crutches. There have been a multitude of ways to counter cloak outside of RML, by the way. I've been teaching people how to do it for months. The inability to counter cloak has and always will stem from a lack of understanding of the class.

Xeniph wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

L2P use radiant magelight.

Yes, now I think a lot of ppl will.

Cry more NB gankers we probably lost a lot of players in Cyrodiil and IC to u

This is bigger than whatever gripe you have with NB cloak. In magelight current form it also negates invisibility pots and an ULTIMATE ability.
Magelight is SO good atm that most magicka builds will run it. There's far too great a risk for someone to waste 200 base Ultimate on a Clouding Swarm if it's negated by the press of a button. That morph will be very much not viable. Vamps have a hard enough time in Cyro atm being big fat targets for one shot builds without this.

Most magicka builds hell!

During our testing I was able to cast is every 4 seconds and regen to full, while chasing a magicka nb. This was with 1200 magica regen on a stamina spec.

EVERYONE will run it. There is literally no reason not to run Radiant over Inner in pvp. +5% magicka is chicken scratch compared to -50% stealth damage and immunity to stealth stuns and empower without needing a target.. I know I will have it on even my stamina gankers.

It's just how every single nightblade is running cloak atm, and everyone would be running it if it was a skill available to everyone, I mean what's not to like with a free pass to not get killed with the push of a button 90% of the time?

Spoken like someone who hasn't played a NB. Take that 90% success rate and drop it to 20%, and that's what cloak really is. Or *was*.

look it's obvious RML wasnt the counter you NB claimed it was... do you know how I know that? because no body was using it. Even if you were to take away the "empower on demand" aspect, and bring it back to being a toggle effect, the real issue NBs seem to have is the fact it keeps you from going stealth when you're discovered, which, according to you guys, didn't matter because being discovered meant "instant death" becuz you guys were "so squishy" and "not OP at all". If your real issue is that you can't cloak immediately when you're hit with a single attack, you're using cloak as a crutch and you're probably the type of player who contributed to magelight getting this update.

What?

I used magelight in every spec/class, coupled with a simple gapcloser or an aoe and it was more than sufficient in finding and keeping NB's from getting away.

Why people didn't run it is the same reason some people still use Divines/infused in pvp (aside from Sorcs). They think everything in burst is the way to go. And couldn't be bothered to lose a slot or 2, since crying is MUCH easier.

Also, one of the REAL issues, of many, is that it CONTINUES to keep you from entering stealth for 5 seconds even after being well out of the radius.

And stop with the whole " You're bad if you over used Cloak". It's no different than repeatedly casting any defensive, like All shields, heals and such. Lets be honest here, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to become adept in a video game that has 10 skills at a time you can use.

If you honestly believe there was NOTHING wrong with RML then there is no discussion to be had here. good on you for finding room in your build? I have had room on my own build for it a few times, do I get a medal or a sticker?

The argument is circular, if all it takes is RML and a gap closer to keep them from stealth, the changes made to it now shouldn't effect anything. It's not a 5 second debuff, it's "you can't stealth for its duration" if I cast it and 3 seconds later find you, it's 2 seconds you go without stealthing... which would be the exact same scenario if I streaked to your location and gapclosed you. So hows it any different?

absolutely not. NBs like to cry about how cloak was their shield, and compare it hardened ward and such, If my hardened ward made you completely lose line of sight, purged any and all debuffs, and essentially reset the battle to my speed, you'd have an argument. You ARE bad if you overuse cloak, just like you're bad if you just spam WB or crystal frags. If you put so much emphasis on a single move, where your whole build is based on that one move, you are BAD.

Xeniph wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

L2P use radiant magelight.

Yes, now I think a lot of ppl will.

Cry more NB gankers we probably lost a lot of players in Cyrodiil and IC to u

This is bigger than whatever gripe you have with NB cloak. In magelight current form it also negates invisibility pots and an ULTIMATE ability.
Magelight is SO good atm that most magicka builds will run it. There's far too great a risk for someone to waste 200 base Ultimate on a Clouding Swarm if it's negated by the press of a button. That morph will be very much not viable. Vamps have a hard enough time in Cyro atm being big fat targets for one shot builds without this.

Most magicka builds hell!

During our testing I was able to cast is every 4 seconds and regen to full, while chasing a magicka nb. This was with 1200 magica regen on a stamina spec.

EVERYONE will run it. There is literally no reason not to run Radiant over Inner in pvp. +5% magicka is chicken scratch compared to -50% stealth damage and immunity to stealth stuns and empower without needing a target.. I know I will have it on even my stamina gankers.

It's just how every single nightblade is running cloak atm, and everyone would be running it if it was a skill available to everyone, I mean what's not to like with a free pass to not get killed with the push of a button 90% of the time?

Spoken like someone who hasn't played a NB. Take that 90% success rate and drop it to 20%, and that's what cloak really is. Or *was*.

look it's obvious RML wasnt the counter you NB claimed it was... do you know how I know that? because no body was using it. Even if you were to take away the "empower on demand" aspect, and bring it back to being a toggle effect, the real issue NBs seem to have is the fact it keeps you from going stealth when you're discovered, which, according to you guys, didn't matter because being discovered meant "instant death" becuz you guys were "so squishy" and "not OP at all". If your real issue is that you can't cloak immediately when you're hit with a single attack, you're using cloak as a crutch and you're probably the type of player who contributed to magelight getting this update.

For the record, I don't even use cloak when I pvp, and there are a great deal of people who can attest to that.

My argument is that "balance" does not mean preventing an entire class from casting their skill. There are plenty of other ways to go about rebalancing cloak. For starters, they could have made it so RML functioned the same way as detect pots, and allowed one to still see someone who is invisible. Not prevent them from using the skill altogether.

And yes, cloak is a crutch. Every class had a crutch, and now one doesn't. Ward, BoL, Flappy Wings - all crutches. There have been a multitude of ways to counter cloak outside of RML, by the way. I've been teaching people how to do it for months. The inability to counter cloak has and always will stem from a lack of understanding of the class.

Exactly^



Show me the counter to Magelight.

Unless you count not attacking at all, then just lol.

Balance means everything can cancel each other out.

Magelight currently has NO counter at all, even though the ability has gone through a fundamental change. I believe this is the issue we all have with it.
I personally thing a good compromise is to allow me to CC break the lock out, get 5 seconds of immunity and be able to cloak. Then I would have the choice to spend double the resources or just eat it. While the attacker still gets to reveal me and react/adjust accordingly. You know, balance.

The counter is range. NB's have 3 major speed buffs, one of them tied to a major snare, and fear and a teleport that can go through walls. It would be interesting if the lockout could be purged but that in my opinion would leave flare underpowered as its an awkward skill as is but many NB's seem to treat cloak as if it were the only skill they could use.