Stop Changing Templar Healing Skills

Frenkthevile · February 2016

Seriuosly Zos, you didn't managed to make a decent Healing Ritual after 2 years, so you NERF the only other cool healing skill, i mean Breath of Life?

What is the point of having a Templar in party if he has to use AoE skills that are similar or underpowered compared to Staff Resto's skills?

Templar had great CC and mobs control like DKs? NOPE.
T. had great mobility like the NBs? NOPE.
T. had spammable shields like Sorcs? NOPE.

TEMPLAR had ONE thing that made it ''characteristic''...the ISTANT HEAL skill called Breth of Life, and it was used to HELP your party: not to oneshot someone in pvp or to skip mechanics(yeah Sorcs i'm looking at you) !!!

This is the WORST decision Zos made since vetMaelstrom Single Player in an MMO.
Templars were underpowered in PvP, unable to complete VMA vet without throwing away their Healer build, and probably the dumbest DPS class (only the 2 morphs of jabs are worth their cost).

Change this skill, breath of life, and i'll quit being healer and will change class(or maybe game). You don't care? Well, your'e not caring about 25% of your classes.

Kammakazi · February 2016

It's not gonna completely make every healer useless.

I use both BoL and Illustrious Healing and they both work wonders.

KochDerDamonen · February 2016

Fun fact, Templar isn't the alternate title for the "Healer" class in this game. We're Templars! Healing's a role that can be fulfilled by any class if you know what you're doing, besides breath of life we're the guys to go to if you want someone to help your group sustain stamina. Not to mention that you don't have to be a healing build to make use of this stamina sustain.

Breath of Life was just an easy cheesy squeezy win button, the kind of thing ZOS has been working to cut down on (see: sorc-caused shield nerfs in cyrodiil, nb stealth adjustments, dragonknights being nerfed into the ground for over a year) I'm glad to see it get changed, hopefully it will make our other flaws apparent in a way that gets them proper attention instead of cramming us into being healers for the rest of our days.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Healing ritual will have same healing as BoL with a cast time. after patch btw
OP have to add: if the templar had same type of DPS as the other classes. Nope

Draxys · February 2016

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Fun fact, Templar isn't the alternate title for the "Healer" class in this game. We're Templars! Healing's a role that can be fulfilled by any class if you know what you're doing, besides breath of life we're the guys to go to if you want someone to help your group sustain stamina. Not to mention that you don't have to be a healing build to make use of this stamina sustain.

Breath of Life was just an easy cheesy squeezy win button, the kind of thing ZOS has been working to cut down on (see: sorc-caused shield nerfs in cyrodiil, nb stealth adjustments, dragonknights being nerfed into the ground for over a year) I'm glad to see it get changed, hopefully it will make our other flaws apparent in a way that gets them proper attention instead of cramming us into being healers for the rest of our days.

Except it's the only class that has an entire skill tree dedicated to healing lol

If that's not "hey, healers, this is a healing class!", I don't know what is

KochDerDamonen · February 2016

Draxys wrote: »

Except it's the only class that has an entire skill tree dedicated to healing lol

If that's not "hey, healers, this is a healing class!", I don't know what is

We sure do, isn't it nice to have those options? Of course I envy the dragonknight's crowd control and shielding, or the nightblade's sheer damage contribution while still applying huge heals over time! The sorcerer uhh, frankly they haven't much going for them in this regard and that's a shame--suppose you could use pets for utility and restoration staff spells only, doesn't sound bad but I'm not familiar so that's just guesswork on my end!

It's an easy pick just like a nightblade gives you the impression of some sort of rogue, and the sorcerer a wizard, yadda yadda. Doesn't mean they're shoe-horned into those positions, that's not how this game was sold and I don't think it should go there. There's enough games where the classes are synonymous with their roles in my opinion.

tinythinker · February 2016

Noooo! Change things *more*

Make Healing Ritual & morphs and Honor the Dead worth slotting so Breath of Life doesn't have to carry the whole skill line.

Anilahation · February 2016

Kammakazi wrote: »

It's not gonna completely make every healer useless.

I use both BoL and Illustrious Healing and they both work wonders.

It ruins us magicka Tanks/healers that makes me feel like a Templar.

Islyn · February 2016

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Fun fact, Templar isn't the alternate title for the "Healer" class in this game. We're Templars! Healing's a role that can be fulfilled by any class if you know what you're doing, besides breath of life we're the guys to go to if you want someone to help your group sustain stamina. Not to mention that you don't have to be a healing build to make use of this stamina sustain.

Breath of Life was just an easy cheesy squeezy win button, the kind of thing ZOS has been working to cut down on (see: sorc-caused shield nerfs in cyrodiil, nb stealth adjustments, dragonknights being nerfed into the ground for over a year) I'm glad to see it get changed, hopefully it will make our other flaws apparent in a way that gets them proper attention instead of cramming us into being healers for the rest of our days.

THEN WHY'RE WE THE ONLY CLASS WITH A WHOLE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALING???
That's what I thought.

Templars are so the healer class.

KochDerDamonen · February 2016

Islyn wrote: »

THEN WHY'RE WE THE ONLY CLASS WITH A WHOLE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALING???
That's what I thought.

Templars are so the healer class.

oh! I know how to play this game!
LOUD NOISES

Templars provide defensive utility in the form of health restoration and debuff purging, along with particularly unique stamina sustain for allies! That doesn't make them the healers. It shouldn't make them the healers. I'm glad that ZOS is seeing that, hopefully we'll see some help towards our damage and personal sustain issues as these changes come down the pipes.

Sempars · February 2016

Islyn wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Fun fact, Templar isn't the alternate title for the "Healer" class in this game. We're Templars! Healing's a role that can be fulfilled by any class if you know what you're doing, besides breath of life we're the guys to go to if you want someone to help your group sustain stamina. Not to mention that you don't have to be a healing build to make use of this stamina sustain.

Breath of Life was just an easy cheesy squeezy win button, the kind of thing ZOS has been working to cut down on (see: sorc-caused shield nerfs in cyrodiil, nb stealth adjustments, dragonknights being nerfed into the ground for over a year) I'm glad to see it get changed, hopefully it will make our other flaws apparent in a way that gets them proper attention instead of cramming us into being healers for the rest of our days.

THEN WHY'RE WE THE ONLY CLASS WITH A WHOLE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALING???
That's what I thought.

Templars are so the healer class.

They are now, since we get Major Mending

yummmmmm

MrGigglypants · February 2016

Lol the QQ are delicious get over it. Bol is still easy mode any other class trying to heal has to use ward find the low health player and heal them via targeted heals. so shut up and adjust to the changed. They made healing a challenge finally. They also made other healers viable in the same update its a good thing because they shortened the ridiculous gap between temps and other classes.

tplink3r1 · February 2016

But you got a +1% more shield and +1 meter range on the aedric ulti, you should be happy now!

KochDerDamonen · February 2016

tplink3r1 wrote: »

But you got a +1% more shield and +1 meter range on the aedric ulti, you should be happy now!

Don't forget the lovely bugfix that we've waiting been for on our gapcloser (still waiting for it, actually. PTS players are saying it's blatantly not fixed)

exeeter702 · February 2016

Sempars wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Fun fact, Templar isn't the alternate title for the "Healer" class in this game. We're Templars! Healing's a role that can be fulfilled by any class if you know what you're doing, besides breath of life we're the guys to go to if you want someone to help your group sustain stamina. Not to mention that you don't have to be a healing build to make use of this stamina sustain.

Breath of Life was just an easy cheesy squeezy win button, the kind of thing ZOS has been working to cut down on (see: sorc-caused shield nerfs in cyrodiil, nb stealth adjustments, dragonknights being nerfed into the ground for over a year) I'm glad to see it get changed, hopefully it will make our other flaws apparent in a way that gets them proper attention instead of cramming us into being healers for the rest of our days.

THEN WHY'RE WE THE ONLY CLASS WITH A WHOLE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALING???
That's what I thought.

Templars are so the healer class.

They are now, since we get Major Mending yummmmmm

every healer gets access to major mending now....

Islyn wrote: »

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Fun fact, Templar isn't the alternate title for the "Healer" class in this game. We're Templars! Healing's a role that can be fulfilled by any class if you know what you're doing, besides breath of life we're the guys to go to if you want someone to help your group sustain stamina. Not to mention that you don't have to be a healing build to make use of this stamina sustain.

Breath of Life was just an easy cheesy squeezy win button, the kind of thing ZOS has been working to cut down on (see: sorc-caused shield nerfs in cyrodiil, nb stealth adjustments, dragonknights being nerfed into the ground for over a year) I'm glad to see it get changed, hopefully it will make our other flaws apparent in a way that gets them proper attention instead of cramming us into being healers for the rest of our days.

THEN WHY'RE WE THE ONLY CLASS WITH A WHOLE TREE DEDICATED TO HEALING???
That's what I thought.

Templars are so the healer class.

Wrong.

Temps having a skill line dedicated to healing yes, but it is mostly baked in utility. All that says is that potentially, a templar healer did not necessarily have to rely on a resto staff.

Flexibility, i know crazy right?

The problem with alot of people in this game is they want to shoe horn each class into a specific role and call it a day. Its obvious the devs do not want this now and never have.

DKs have mitigation skills that can also be achieved through s/b, undaunted and armor skills

Templars have healing and utility that can also be achieved through resto staff, and undaunted (for the exception of stam regen, unique perks that each class brings?! how insane!)

DK healers have igneous plus BoR (amazing that they specifically dont need combat prayer since they have mountains blessing passive right?). Major mending tied to igneous is a very intentional utility and finally a support ultimate that is much easier to use and benefits multiple players.

NB funnel health nerfed down to one target? same nerf as BoL, interesting is it not? Refreshing path is receiving a very nice buff in potency and now NBs have access to major mending. Couple that with one of the best group mitigation ultimates in the game and the unique ability to deal damage and provide good healing at the same time (unique perks that each class brings?! how insane!)

Look, at the end of the day the blame lies squarely on ZOS. They facilitated for the longest time a group environment that suggested templars should be the only real healers based purely on balance oversight and lack of communication to less informed players that may see templar and go "hey this class has a skill line that is focused on healing that means they must be the healers in this mmo!". What festered was a mindest that players with a templar healer could mostly play like jack asses ie. not worry about stacking or a slightly less emphasis on syngerizing while being showered with BoL via ESOs not so glorious smart cast heals.

The notion became things like "why bother coordinating and whatnot when templars can just do their thing while i do mine". You know something is wrong when a group gets annoyed (unfortunately rightfully so in the games current state) when you go in as a NB healer for example and say something along the lines of "hey guys, make sure to stay close more often than not for trash pulls so sap essence gets you covered" or "do not forget to activate bone shield and Orb if you need mana". Players want to put in the least effort possible and nerfing BoL and funnel health and giving major mending to resto staff users universally is an obvious step in a direction that this game desperately needs, interactive hands on healing as opposed to passive healing. BoL, funnel health and ward ally all share a similar application and that is not a coincidence.

Templars are not "The healing class" of ESO and i promise you that you will see more changes going forward that will put most classes in line for the role.

On a small side note, the most recent and most satisfying group experience i had was when doing vWGT the other day with a nightblade healer and our group all acknowledged the unique strengths of the NB healer and played to them as a whole.

Iove · February 2016

Pre downloading 2 other free mmos as we speak

gg ZOS this was the only class worth playing for me in your game and I've waited since beta for you to sort it out. At least with this pts you have given me the middle finger and a push out of the door, I suppose I should say thanks cause now I won't waste more time or money.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

we gain mayor mending but lose this
Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.
bad tradeoff
@exeeter702
main problem with templar that healing was the only thing a templar was still good at

FlicksZ · February 2016

exeeter702 wrote: »

A lot of awesome stuff with a great perspective

exeeter702 · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

we gain mayor mending but lose this
Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.
bad tradeoff
@exeeter702
main problem with templar that healing was the only thing a templar was still good at :

Artjuh90 wrote: »

we gain mayor mending but lose this
Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.
bad tradeoff
@exeeter702
main problem with templar that healing was the only thing a templar was still good at

cant argue that unfortunately

Robbmrp · February 2016

They were trying to make Healing Ritual more useful.... The problem is it NEVER will be useful in Cyrodil though as in the time it takes to cast this, your instadead anyway.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Fun fact, Templar isn't the alternate title for the "Healer" class in this game. We're Templars! Healing's a role that can be fulfilled by any class if you know what you're doing, besides breath of life we're the guys to go to if you want someone to help your group sustain stamina. Not to mention that you don't have to be a healing build to make use of this stamina sustain.

Breath of Life was just an easy cheesy squeezy win button, the kind of thing ZOS has been working to cut down on (see: sorc-caused shield nerfs in cyrodiil, nb stealth adjustments, dragonknights being nerfed into the ground for over a year) I'm glad to see it get changed, hopefully it will make our other flaws apparent in a way that gets them proper attention instead of cramming us into being healers for the rest of our days.

This is 1 area I am in 100% agreement on. I definitely think Templars should be great healers if you want to go that road, but I've always felt every other class should have that option as well. I actually play a DK Healer (my main DK) so I'm quite happy with a lot of the changes they've made in that regard. I think the possible changes to Sorcerer healing are interesting though I'm not convinced the pet's healing will be enough (or sustainable with it dying all the time). The concern I have is that the entire holistic design of Templar just isn't there. When you compare how well crafted the other classes are, it just makes you cry when you start messing with your Templar. Templar as a theme is fantastic, and it could be so much more. The class evokes a lot of the themes in previous TES games that I think all of us can get behind, like the Witch Hunter, the Crusader, the Knight, The Warrior, The Monk, The Priest, and so on. All of these different flavors are wonderful, but when you are at a functional disadvantage on a class for so long it becomes frustrating. I've known a lot of really great Templar players who were high on the AP Boards regularly to quit the game over the functional problems with the Templar class. I've known even more players who simply gave up on Templar, shelving that character until ZoS gets their act together. I still run my Templar, but I'm quickly coming upon the point where I will only use the character to pick up achievements and run the stories (actively listening/choosing) the first time around. Beyond that I'm growing frustrated that the class will never be what it could be.

By forcing us to stand in a tiny circle for Rune Focus, they are essentially saying we need to reclick that skill every 4-8 seconds. Most cast times even clipped will take up time. Other classes can get the same benefit with aggressive and other beneficial results (take boundless or spike armor). For them it is fire and forget, and really does what Sun Shield and Focus combined do. All you have to do is compare Rune Focus + Sun Shield vs. Hardened Ward + Boundless+Disintegrate vs Obsidian Shield + Spike Shield vs. Shadow Skill/Cloak + Mirage. There is no way you can tell me that the Templar version is stronger, particularly when you factor in the passive bonuses that the other classes receive. AND THIS IS JUST ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE of the game. When you start digging into the aggressive side of the class, there are a lot more problems.

failkiwib16_ESO · February 2016

Robbmrp wrote: »

They were trying to make Healing Ritual more useful.... The problem is it NEVER will be useful in Cyrodil though as in the time it takes to cast this, your instadead anyway.

Healing Ritual is not better in PvE either. The cast time usually leaves a dead team -.- It's heavily outmatched by Healing Springs.

I have known a healer that used to use it, and he could pull it off because he played with very good friends.

RedRoomGaming · February 2016

I changed my stamplar to a tank healer as let's be honest, stamplars are pants right now until this update sort of. I am gutted tht BoL is now only you and another person purely because its what I use a lot and I am leveling my AP right now so it is going to be harder. But since EVERYONE (n00BS) cry nerf all the time what are they supposed to do ignore it? No they make sure that the new players are happy so they will spend more money.

The only reason I still play my templar now is for the achievements because it is my main.

MrGigglypants · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

we gain mayor mending but lose this
Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.
bad tradeoff
@exeeter702
main problem with templar that healing was the only thing a templar was still good at

dark flare just got a 12% bump lol magicka Templar damage was already crazy on single targets strongest single target spammable in the game + strongest execute? decent dots from destro and 1 class dot? go home

RedRoomGaming · February 2016

MrGigglypants wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

we gain mayor mending but lose this
Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.
bad tradeoff
@exeeter702
main problem with templar that healing was the only thing a templar was still good at

dark flare just got a 12% bump lol magicka Templar damage was already crazy on single targets strongest single target spammable in the game + strongest execute? decent dots from destro and 1 class dot? go home

I get hit by that 6-12k damage so with this increase and a fully buffed player comes along, spams that and boosh goodnight!

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

MrGigglypants wrote: »

Lol the QQ are delicious get over it. Bol is still easy mode any other class trying to heal has to use ward find the low health player and heal them via targeted heals. so shut up and adjust to the changed. They made healing a challenge finally. They also made other healers viable in the same update its a good thing because they shortened the ridiculous gap between temps and other classes.

This is a horrible argument. If all Templars were healers this might get some traction with me, but they aren't so it doesn't. It is patently clear at this point that Earthen Heart is the healing skill line for DK, although it also works quite well for tanks of the class as well. Templar just needs better utility all around, and better skill synergy. It is that simple. Templar should not be only Healer, and I think at least this is their desire and attempt here and that is a good thing.