Do you think ZOS should eliminate animation cancelling?

Toc de Malsvi · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

AC was not intended, but it was embraced, this means they could just as easily dump it, yet they chose to embrace it at this time.

I think most people who are against it are not against actually cancelling abilities to be able to block or dodge roll, but rather against not actually cancelling abilities but rather just clipping a portion of the animation.

As far as worrying about accidentally cancelling that is the worst argument possible, regardless of what game you play you can accidentally press the wrong button and that is in no way indicative of whether there is a problem with the game or not. If AC was changed to actually cancel abilities, then players would learn and adapt just as they learned to AC in the first place.

As stated above, many do not really understand what it is and how it actually affects combat, but that does not necessarily mean that it is bad or should be removed or changed.

Personally I would like to see Animation Cancelling actually be Ability cancelling, with the adjustment of animations to be shorter. I believe this would keep combat fast and responsive while giving a more intuitive approach to cancelling skills for blocking/bash/dodge rolling.

However ZOS is looking into improving the visual output in relation to animation cancelling and making combat more responsive and this may or may not resolve this apparent issue.

Humanistic · January 2016

No let it stay

People have been complaining about little crap like this since the beta.

When you play Tetris, you don't go to the forums and complain about it not having Candy Crush features.

When you play Call of Duty, you don't complain that you're missing flying combat text.

Understand the game mechanics, and the gameplay - then you optimize. It's there for a reason, mainly to keep the action fast-paced I'm guessing.

ESO isn't Warcraft - by design, it's not even close.

Some people like to think an MMORPG has one design. According to this reasoning, then games like Alien:Isolation, Call of Duty, Crysis, Bioshock (and countless other FPS games) should be made like Golden Eye or the original Wolfenstein - or just copy each other and be exactly the same.

JUST BECAUSE ONE GAME DOES IT, DOESN'T MEAN ANOTHER GAME NEEDS TO DO IT.

In Elder Scrolls Online, there's animation canceling, you click to swing and shoot - the global cooldown is hidden so as to keep the combat fast-paced and engaging. As far as I'm concerned, there also is no "holy trinity" in this game (there's tons of skills and only like 2-3 taunts out of literally millions of skill combinations). There's more archetypes than anything.

It's called "micro-aggression" when you complain about things that have little to no merit whatsoever. It's not a problem, the problem is that you haven't adapted to people that have. Evolve and adapt to the game, or go play something else.

I vote no, there's nothing wrong with the system - people just don't know how to use it yet. We had the same problem during the long-term beta. People thought you could go into dungeons with a tank and just taunt mobs and wrack 'em up like in Warcraft. That isn't the way to play this game - and people adapted.

Learn to understand the game mechanics before you start complaining about it - that's how bugs and exploits are fixed. There's nothing wrong with animation canceling, there never has been as far as I understand it - people just don't know how it works.

The BEST idea would be to incorporate a tutorial that explains how animation canceling works.

Waffennacht · January 2016

No let it stay

PC users... smh...

Edziu · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

I can be for yes if only from skills cut animations will be eliminated
or skills will be some more powerfull if also light/heavy attacks animation cut will be eliminated, because I only cuting only light attacks animation

(then siphoninig attacks need to buffed because without light attacks animation cut siphoning attacks are some useless on pve and thanks it dps wit nb with no good regen be the worst possible dps ro with good regend NB damage will be also crap

sorry this but needed to write about this problem)

Emma_Overload · January 2016

No let it stay

TipsyDrow wrote: »

I believe animation cancelling needs to be fixed, but not because some skilled players can do it well manually. but because it can be macroed allowing multiple skills to fire off virtually instantly.

Multiple skills aren't being "fired off" instantly, though... it's not even possible. What DOES happen is that multiple skills and weapon attacks are LANDING simultaneously because there is so much variation in cast times. Lag also can play a factor, especially in PvP.

I guarantee you that the majority of complaints about animation cancelling are really just PvP players who are upset that they got hit with a lot of spike damage because numerous attacks landed at the same time. If these people can't deal with ESO's fast paced combat, they really need to switch to some boring, old-fashioned turn-based MMO with long cooldowns... and quit trying to ruin ESO for the rest of us.

Rune_Relic · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

One of the other posters said cancelling an ability should make it forfeit.
I am kind of that opinion but not so extreme.
If the costs/dps/hits is the same ..and you can still see skills telegraphed properly to be countered ..then I am happy for them to stay.

But I don't think ZOS can provide either so they need to go.
Animations look crap.
Telegraphs aren't visible so cant be reacted to.
Proper costing of skills is screwed...and thus so is balance.

The way it used to work is....if you chose a long wind up high damage skill.. you were vulnerable to counter.
If you didn't want to be vulnerable you didn't use a long wind up high damage skill.
AC takes away all the risks and keeps all the benefits

dday3six · January 2016

No let it stay

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Yes and here's why.....go get into a sword fight and try and WB the other guy and stop half way....see if you win the fight or not. All this calling it skill crap needs to stop. It's not skill it's being a key spamming *** who loves exploits. There should be some element or realism in combat and stopping an attack half way just kills it off. Pure and simple retardness bin it off and level things out a little bit more.

I truly despise 'realism' arguments like this...

Most of the weapons, and armor for that matter in this game are terribly designed from a realisitic standpoint. They're meant to look visually appealing, not function in actual combat. Oh, and feinting or faking an action, you know stopping half way through to mislead your opponent is an actual sword fighting technique. It's used to create an open in their defense via distraction. The reason you'd lose with Wrecking Blow is you'd be exposed at multiple points. The move is overly telegraphed and completely overextended. Most of the skills are in game are in fact. Again meant to look visually appealing, and in fact stopping half way through most of the swings would bring them more in line with proper fighting technique.

LadyNalcarya · January 2016

No let it stay

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Yes and here's why.....go get into a sword fight and try and WB the other guy and stop half way....see if you win the fight or not. All this calling it skill crap needs to stop. It's not skill it's being a key spamming *** who loves exploits. There should be some element or realism in combat and stopping an attack half way just kills it off. Pure and simple retardness bin it off and level things out a little bit more.

@DRXHarbinger
Yeah, but are you ready to die thousands of times in dungeons when you wont be able to block in time (because you're casting something) or get out or red? When you see a mob charging wb at you and block, you're cancelling animations. When you roll dodge from a red circle that spawned under your feet while you're casting your spells, youre animation cancelling.
Animation cancel mechanic in this game is much more than just weaving and removing it completely will make the game clunky/unplayable, because combat system is dynamic. For example, theres a Manticora boss in one of the trials, sometimes he jumps and everyone should stop doing whatever they were doing and block, otherwise its a oneshot. Also he casts explosive circles that must be dodged... Just imagine fighting this guy and a templar and not being able to cancel radiant opression or puncturing sweep. Removing such a fundamental combat mechanic would require a complete rework or combat system.

Drakilian · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

You know, animation cancelling is a thing in a lot of other games too. It's called aborting an action. You should never get to deal damage for an attack that never lands

Tankqull · January 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

They should replace animation canceling with action canceling. You decide to do something else, whatever you are doing at the time does not happen. Starting to do something and then immediately canceling it should not result in the action continuing to do damage.

sorry but that makes no sense, animation cancling is tied in 99% of the cases to instant abilities how do you want to cancel an INSTANT ability that has been processed before you decide to do sth else, timetraveling?

thelordoffelines · January 2016

No let it stay

The amount of mis information in this thread regarding macros is worrying.

Sneaky-Snurr · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

Firstly, the mechanics of no AC gives greater risk-reward (in tandem with the old Ulti generation system) and it offers a much more polished game design as people won't just spam and spam buttons, it actually makes the player give more thought on what to use in his/her arsenal given that the skill bars are locked in-combat. The current unintended system makes it all so confusing that sometimes (and most of the times against people who are well-versed in AC) you can't seem to know what your opponents are using and you don't even have time to react because the animation gets cancelled and damage is still dealt onto you.

Secondly, I actually see the benefit of cancelling animations. What I have problem is that even when the ability is cancelled, damage IS STILL DEALT. That's the biggest flaw in AC currently and that's what I have beef with. If you cancel the animation, damage shouldn't be dealt at all and that's the way it should've been. To deal damage, one has to let the animation complete its cycle and by then and only then can damage be applied onto the victim. This is also to say that you can cancel the animation should you get into a sticky situation.

@thelordoffelines
Actually, they aren't misinformed, macro-ing is prevalent in this game. It's been the case since launch though the numbers have obviously reduced due to fewer people actively playing. I've actually found a few chars (and a few I know) on the main PvP transitus or wayshrines 'practicing' AC in a cyclical manner. They're undoubtedly setting up macros (and I've been confirmed from the user himself) for that and they won't even respond to you if you try talking to them.

dsalter · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

Alucardo wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

It's a cheat because it isnt taught to everyone,so I dont think it should exist.Just my thoughts.

Sorry, but that's pretty false. People have created videos on how to animation cancel, such as

- Lefty Lucy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug
- Alcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZYoEztDilE

These are great guides with clear instructions

not devs or the game. this is where some of the problem for me is. this stuff should have been explained early game so that folk can practice it from near the beginning so it gives EVERYONE a fair stance and position in the game.

TalonShina · January 2016

No let it stay

dsalter wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

It's a cheat because it isnt taught to everyone,so I dont think it should exist.Just my thoughts.

Sorry, but that's pretty false. People have created videos on how to animation cancel, such as

- Lefty Lucy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug
- Alcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZYoEztDilE

These are great guides with clear instructions

not devs or the game. this is where some of the problem for me is. this stuff should have been explained early game so that folk can practice it from near the beginning so it gives EVERYONE a fair stance and position in the game.

It's not stated in bold letters but you can practice it a little in Wailing Prison the last mob that levels you to 2 before you go into the large room. Yes maybe a clear explanation of it but it's not hard to accidently come across it and then perfect it or at least practice it

CP5 · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

Another thing that people should consider, if ZOS can't fully embrace animation canceling (as in show it in tutorials and support information about it in game) then how do you properly balance skills around it? Skills that can be animation canceled have a significant strength, but if the skill needs to be strong enough on its own without being easily combined with other abilities then when you get a rotation down that includes it then the skill could prove stronger than intended. But if you balance the skill around being used in animation canceling than the skill would likely not be able to do much if not animation canceled. In short animation canceling adds a a layer of balance between the skills that can be used with it and the skills that can't, and the devs have shown through the 50% damage reduction in pvp that they don't want a game with insta-gibbing.

Also, how many people at least consider the ability to commit to an attack and knowing what skills to use when in a fight as comparable to animation canceling which is basically a "why not both" situation?

Mastery404 · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

No, simply because it has more practical purposes than just weaving.

I see nothing wrong in having to make proper decisions during combat. Having to wait for the right time to use our skills instead of face rolling our keyboards would be more fun and engaging. They have built a great combat system with charged skills interrupted by bashes, heavy attacks countered by blocks... but everything is thrown away by AC and weaving.

LadyNalcarya · January 2016

No let it stay

Mastery404 wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

No, simply because it has more practical purposes than just weaving.

I see nothing wrong in having to make proper decisions during combat. Having to wait for the right time to use our skills instead of face rolling our keyboards would be more fun and engaging. They have built a great combat system with charged skills interrupted by bashes, heavy attacks countered by blocks... but everything is thrown away by AC and weaving.

Well, I dont see what's fun and engaging in not being able to block. If I liked this style of gameplay, I would've played a turn-based game. But eso is not turn-based, its combat is designed to be fluid and reactive. And some element of rng in this game wont work with "just press a button and watch". For example, Ibomez boss, where you have to take care of zombies/atronachs. Sometimes even a few seconds can make a difference between win and wipe.
You mentioned "having to wait"... But how will it work in Manticora fight I mentioned? You cant just "wait", this boss has an enrage timer and bombs that spawn at random players.
Also, interrupts, blocks and stuff are still important. Thats why we cant just watch helplessly how our char is channeling an ability while a mob charged his wrecking blow at him. Cancelling an ability in this case is just logical, you would've done the same in real combat.

CP5 · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Mastery404 wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

No, simply because it has more practical purposes than just weaving.

I see nothing wrong in having to make proper decisions during combat. Having to wait for the right time to use our skills instead of face rolling our keyboards would be more fun and engaging. They have built a great combat system with charged skills interrupted by bashes, heavy attacks countered by blocks... but everything is thrown away by AC and weaving.

Well, I dont see what's fun and engaging in not being able to block. If I liked this style of gameplay, I would've played a turn-based game. But eso is not turn-based, its combat is designed to be fluid and reactive. And some element of rng in this game wont work with "just press a button and watch". For example, Ibomez boss, where you have to take care of zombies/atronachs. Sometimes even a few seconds can make a difference between win and wipe.
You mentioned "having to wait"... But how will it work in Manticora fight I mentioned? You cant just "wait", this boss has an enrage timer and bombs that spawn at random players.
Also, interrupts, blocks and stuff are still important. Thats why we cant just watch helplessly how our char is channeling an ability while a mob charged his wrecking blow at him. Cancelling an ability in this case is just logical, you would've done the same in real combat.

If they removed the damage from skills that were canceled they wouldn't have to remove the ability to cancel skills at all. They have said a few times how vital ESO's blocking is to combat and how allowing the player to block at any time is a priority, but if they don't commit fully to having this as a feature then you won't have as solid of a game balance as you would without. How many use channel's when they make you drop your defense when you could just AC high damage skills? How many skills that can't be AC'ed are even used when you can just use strong skills that can be weaved? If ZOS doesn't balance skills around their ability to be AC'ed, and if they don't teach it as part of the game then you will just have the combat we have now that can easily cause frustration as pvp hinges more and more on it and pve becomes more balanced around it.

Alucardo · January 2016

No let it stay

dsalter wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

It's a cheat because it isnt taught to everyone,so I dont think it should exist.Just my thoughts.

Sorry, but that's pretty false. People have created videos on how to animation cancel, such as

- Lefty Lucy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug
- Alcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZYoEztDilE

These are great guides with clear instructions

not devs or the game. this is where some of the problem for me is. this stuff should have been explained early game so that folk can practice it from near the beginning so it gives EVERYONE a fair stance and position in the game.

So you're telling me you need the devs to hold your hand? ESO is the most cryptic game I've ever picked up, where you have to figure out everything on your own, and I'm actually OK with that.
Same goes with animation cancelling, I figured this out on my own before even watching the guides. It's not like this is some kind of ancient art, only known by the elder scrolls online sensei's. It has been around for a long time and many people have known about it. If you haven't bothered to take the time and learn it, then that's your own fault.
Hell, I think it's fair to say it's gained enough exposure now for sure.

Casdha · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

I don't think it matters either way. I think prioritizing the order of the animations will do the trick.

In other words if you cast a skill that takes 1.3 seconds to hit then the damage from another skill can't hit until that 1.3 seconds has expired and the damage from that skill has hit. No more skills jumping in front of it in line while you are waiting.

Who cares if folks want to cancel animations as long as it doesn't allow them to change the order of the damage done on timed skills.

tplink3r1 · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

Humanistic wrote: »

It's called "micro-aggression" when you complain about things that have little to no merit whatsoever.

LOL, how is it an "aggression"?

Rune_Relic · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

Fellhand_ESO wrote: »

I like the fast paced action, I just do not like that we have to cancel our animations to do it. Epic duels between characters have devolved into who can seizure the fastest. I understand canceling an attack/ability to block incoming damage, but it should be a trade off.

rofl....beautifully put.

LadyNalcarya · January 2016

No let it stay

CP5 wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Mastery404 wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

No, simply because it has more practical purposes than just weaving.

I see nothing wrong in having to make proper decisions during combat. Having to wait for the right time to use our skills instead of face rolling our keyboards would be more fun and engaging. They have built a great combat system with charged skills interrupted by bashes, heavy attacks countered by blocks... but everything is thrown away by AC and weaving.

Well, I dont see what's fun and engaging in not being able to block. If I liked this style of gameplay, I would've played a turn-based game. But eso is not turn-based, its combat is designed to be fluid and reactive. And some element of rng in this game wont work with "just press a button and watch". For example, Ibomez boss, where you have to take care of zombies/atronachs. Sometimes even a few seconds can make a difference between win and wipe.
You mentioned "having to wait"... But how will it work in Manticora fight I mentioned? You cant just "wait", this boss has an enrage timer and bombs that spawn at random players.
Also, interrupts, blocks and stuff are still important. Thats why we cant just watch helplessly how our char is channeling an ability while a mob charged his wrecking blow at him. Cancelling an ability in this case is just logical, you would've done the same in real combat.

If they removed the damage from skills that were canceled they wouldn't have to remove the ability to cancel skills at all. They have said a few times how vital ESO's blocking is to combat and how allowing the player to block at any time is a priority, but if they don't commit fully to having this as a feature then you won't have as solid of a game balance as you would without. How many use channel's when they make you drop your defense when you could just AC high damage skills? How many skills that can't be AC'ed are even used when you can just use strong skills that can be weaved? If ZOS doesn't balance skills around their ability to be AC'ed, and if they don't teach it as part of the game then you will just have the combat we have now that can easily cause frustration as pvp hinges more and more on it and pve becomes more balanced around it.

Firstly, there's a class that mostly has channeled damage skills, and this class happens to be the best healer, so its important.
Secondly, basic weaving just includes cancelling basic weapon/staff attack, and you can control the strenght of said attack anyway (medium/heavy/light attacks). So if all attacks except fully charged wont do any damage, the whole system will be screwed.
Block cancel is more complicated to balance, but maybe something like adjusting internal cooldowns will work. But instant cast abilities must be, well, instant, and even moreso, those that are not actually instant (like breath of life) should be fixed.

dlepi24 · January 2016

No let it stay

If they were going to take it out they would've already done it the first time they tried to. It's clear that it's not worth their time or else it would be gone early in the games life. Ever since they failed to fix it they said it's allowed and fair play.

To those that don't understand it, there are many guides online and in YouTube. For example, Lefty Lucy has a few that range from beginner to advanced and goes over everything about animation cancelling.

EdmundTowers · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

Animation cancelling is sort of like a *** combo system. I'm sure that's why people like it. More DPS, less waiting around. Use it and you gain an advantage. Don't use it and you're gimping yourself.

Combos are fun, but it's obvious the game was not designed with animation canceling in mind. And it's obvious it wasn't truly embraced due to all the imbalances caused by it and how visually dumb it looks.

I'm reminded of that arcade fighting game Street Fighter. The creators of that game didn't intend for players to "combo" their attacks. But when they saw players doing it they truly embraced it. All their games from then on were designed to make combos look good and were balanced around players using combos.

I think for this game it would just be easier to ditch animation cancelling then to create a combo system to make it work. It would be easier to balance. Skill level will be more influenced by your decision making on when and when not to use skills/spells rather than abusing a broken combo system.

Sav72 · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

To many people would complain, just fix or do something about the 4 to 6 attacks in 2 seconds.

Shogunami · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

All attacks should have a visible cue, and an action/animation that can be seen.

Period.

What are we, freaking psi-power ninjas? No.
Then how come we can do invisible attacks?

It's fun and all, but it's stupid.
If anything, fix the animation cancelling by making animations for it - and a trade-off in % if your character abort the skill and doesn't fully/properly perform it. This would make sense, but what we have now doesn't.

Again, all attacks should have a visible cue, and an action/animation that can be seen.

technohic · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

riverdragon72 wrote: »

I think they eliminated animations on Azuras entirely.

LMAO! This is why I think I am more for getting rid of the cancelling to be honest. I'm the wrong guy to ask though because I'd just assume get rid of so many spells flying around and animations in general and make the game more about something that looks like just a more plain siege warfare that can actually maintain numbers fighting at a keep in a more controlled combat with less spam.

Alagras · January 2016

No let it stay

Heindrich wrote: »

Please give me things to work on and aspire for.

This. I m learning it and and it s fun, in current state it adds some spice

but

real nice thing would be make the combat system evolute to be more tricky and less predictable. And only then get rid of animation cancelling.

I mean now it s a bit like: "I prepare ideal damage sequences on my own then unleash them in opponent's face the fastest possible".
It s a bit calling for macros, with reason or not

Make it so our "ideal fight" can t be written beforehand. Active dodges, kind of combos, counters, moments of vulnerability during attacks, anything that rewards the player for good timing and instant adaptation to situations.
Make the combat gameplay a bit richer first, then remove anim cancelling

Sadetius · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

Ok so I just tried AC, I had never heard about it until I read about it on here (it explained the wtf instagib by 3 attacks moments of my brief experience in cyro). I am no expert on it, however :

I can see the appeal of it as AC could be seen as sort of combos. And the ability to block whenever a player wants is important as well.
It looks really silly though and it really breaks the immersion. In addition as it is not really part of the game mechanics, its more of an oddity, a by-product, it is open for exploitation.

Either remove it.

Or

Make the game compliment it, build around and do not make it look like the character is having a massive seizure. And let players have enough info to see what's coming at them.