Do you think ZOS should eliminate animation cancelling?

dsalter · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

i'd rather see it gone but it does indeed add to the... "skill" requirement of the game, i feel they need to at least A: teach it in game and B: slow it down slightly so it's less... well pathetic looking as spazzing between animations like that just makes the game look... well... not made of quality stuff...

Lil_Willie · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

Animation canceling is for ***

Wollust · January 2016

No let it stay

Am I the only one who has never had any issues with skills not being visible? It just requires some practice and that's it. No AC in the world will be able to hide anything properly if you actually know the combat and the classes you're playing against.
And I know because I have duelled the best players on the EU server and those guys (and myself as well I guess) animation cancel the crap out of everything.

However, I wouldn't mind if there was a short intro for new players, even though it isn't hard to find out by yourself. When I wanted to start doing end game content I just googled and found out about AC in less than 3 minutes. But well, I guess not everyone can be asked to do some research beforehand.

And please stop with macro accusations. AC is too easy to even bother with that. You just need a week or two to master weaving and another week to master blockcancel and whatever else. It's an interesting skilllayer that makes the ESO combat actually really fluid and fast. Otherwise it would be extremely unresponsive and slow imo.
I agree if someone uses macro, that's crap and bypasses the necessary skill to execute AC, but unfortunately it's really hard to proof as a macro won't be able to surpass what a human can do. If there was a way to detect a macro user with 100% certainty, go ahead and ban him. Noone would mind that.

Bluepitbull13 · January 2016

No let it stay

Wollust wrote: »

Am I the only one who has never had any issues with skills not being visible? It just requires some practice and that's it. No AC in the world will be able to hide anything properly if you actually know the combat and the classes you're playing against.
And I know because I have duelled the best players on the EU server and those guys (and myself as well I guess) animation cancel the crap out of everything.

However, I wouldn't mind if there was a short intro for new players, even though it isn't hard to find out by yourself. When I wanted to start doing end game content I just googled and found out about AC in less than 3 minutes. But well, I guess not everyone can be asked to do some research beforehand.

And please stop with macro accusations. AC is too easy to even bother with that. You just need a week or two to master weaving and another week to master blockcancel and whatever else. It's an interesting skilllayer that makes the ESO combat actually really fluid and fast. Otherwise it would be extremely unresponsive and slow imo.
I agree if someone uses macro, that's crap and bypasses the necessary skill to execute AC, but unfortunately it's really hard to proof as a macro won't be able to surpass what a human can do. If there was a way to detect a macro user with 100% certainty, go ahead and ban him. Noone would mind that.

Refuse2GrowUp · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

They already said they will not get rid of it. So polls like this are useless my friend.

Sharee · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

Animation cancelling as such needs to be in the game so that players can react to incoming threats without having to wait out their current animation first. You need to block that incoming wrecking blow now, not after your healing ritual animation finishes.

On the other hand, this mechanic is currently being used to land too many attacks at the same time - and worse, it can be macroed. This should be addressed in some way.

Sharmony · January 2016

No let it stay

It's the only extra level of skill this game brings. If you want to get rid of it you lose an entire aspect of the game, one which really defines how skillful players are. Not to mention the removing of animation cancelling kills all PvE dps by huge amounts, bringing even less skill and enjoyment for those who want to play PvE.

Sharmony · January 2016

No let it stay

Moreover, you could take away animation cancelling if you sped up abilities animations by over 50%, then I can see it being possible and both sides have their way. It needs to feel like animation cancelling was never removed without the animation's themselves looking like they're being cancelled, removing outright would be a huge loss to the game, one where many would never come back from.

Destruent · January 2016

No let it stay

Idinuse wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Do you really believe that a competitive expansion to ESO such as Arenas could ever be possible when it's beyond obvious how many are cheating using macros?

How can you, just by interaction in game, tell if a player is using macros or not? You call it obvious and many. Detail how you deduce, for a matter of fact, that a player is using macros.

Ah, see here is the benefit of doubt mantra, can't prove it, something that macro cheaters are thriving of. I can assure you that I have well over 200 screenshots of death caps showing 5 skills within around 2 seconds according to the visible FTC log.

Next mantra is going to be skillful thumbs or other finger. Please. Every one of these skills needs a weapon swap and an instant cast then yet another weapon swap to be pulled of anywhere near that time space. Every time.

Next mantra is lag or latency. Amazingly nothing else in the vicinity of the environment I'm in during this 5 skills in 2 seconds death is lagging or suffering any latency. None of the caps of this particular nature have ever included any sort of channeled skill. They seem to bee immune to latency and lag in this regard.

Last, I know people who have admitted to using Razer macros after being confronted with what I have on screenshot. If nothing else, these would invalidate any kind of competitions such as Arenas, as long as macros are or even can be present in game. Cancelling skills with animation at least lowers the chances of cheaters competing in a competitive game.

I would have guessed most players would find that a welcoming thought.

First example:
1sec: Snipe (hits a bit delayed)-->Ambush (including double Camo-procc)-->Soul harvest

2sec. Light Attack-->Surprise Attack->Bash

8 Attacks in ~2 Seconds

Secon example:

Wind up DW-heavy attack (2 attacks shown in FTC)-->Surprise Attack--> light attack-->Surprise Attack

5 Attacks in ~2 Seconds (add camo and you're at 6 and more)

Can give you some more examples, but yu definitely don't need macros for this. If you can't do it, just practice it and understand basic game mechanics.

kevlarto_ESO · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

It is the cause of a lot of problems it is the reason why you feel like you were hit once then you look at your death recap and you see there are 5 different kinds of hits or just one spammed over and over I think if you cancel the action you should not do damage and of course the use of macros don't help either cancel should mean cancel you get nothing

And if its going to be a permanent part of the game then it needs to be in the starting tutorial I bet there are people in this game that have never heard of animation canceling

Volkodav · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

It's a cheat because it isnt taught to everyone,so I dont think it should exist.Just my thoughts.

Alucardo · January 2016

No let it stay

Volkodav wrote: »

It's a cheat because it isnt taught to everyone,so I dont think it should exist.Just my thoughts.

Sorry, but that's pretty false. People have created videos on how to animation cancel, such as

- Lefty Lucy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZzGoPp9Ug
- Alcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZYoEztDilE

These are great guides with clear instructions

xellink · January 2016

No let it stay

Maybe ZOS should put animation cancelling into the tutorial so that new players are aware that such an underlying system is intended.

Kolache · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

I'd prefer a system that rewards timing in a way that doesn't screw up animations or rely on using things like "block" to optimize a "attacks".
That sounds more like an 'other', but honestly it seems more intuitive that when you "cancel" an attack you "cancel" at least a portion of the damage it's doing. If there isn't a best-of-both-worlds solution to be found, I'd rather combat make sense and not look as ugly.
TLDR: more in depth combat > combat that isn't acceptably broken > current combat

Browiseth · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

Yes, it's unintentional and weird and doesn't make any sense realistically. Though I understand it would take a long time to iron out - if ZoS even intends to at all that is

Jura23 · January 2016

No let it stay

I am surprised how even this poll is.

adriant1978 · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

I don't know enough about game design to say if it's possible to remove it and not harm the feel of combat in ESO, but I really hope that content (talking especially about PvE here) is not being created and tuned on the assumption that players animation cancel.

Don't make it an official mechanic, please, and don't penalise players who can't do it.

Heindrich · January 2016

No let it stay

Unless the combat system in ESO is radically reworked, animation cancelling is absolutely essential for high end content and competitive gameplay.

Let's be honest here... many of those calling for the end of AC do so because it seems like black magic to you. You don't understand it, it gives others an advantage and you cannot be bothered or you are unable to learn it yourself, so you want to take it away from others. But the fact is AC is simple, easy to learn, but nearly impossible to master. i.e. intentional or otherwise, it actually lends a lot of depth and skill to ESO combat.

What you probably don't realise is that almost everyone does it to an extent, just without knowing that they did. Every time you dodge-roll or block to deal with a heavy attack or red circles, there is a good chance that you cancelled whatever attack animation you were using. The difference between casual players and elites is that the elites do it intentionally and all the time and use AC offensively to enhance dps output.

For the record, I am only an average skill player. In terms of AC, I mostly just medium weave. I also use dodgeroll+Vigor or dodgeroll+Hardened Ward for defense. I bar-swap to AC buffs and apply shields quickly... that's it. My skill level does not currently allow me to do the more fancy stuff elite players are capable of... but that's okay. Please give me things to work on and aspire for. Stop pushing ESO towards a no-skill, no-challenge, no aspiration giant carebear adventuring themepark.

Mastery404 · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

AC leads to lack of feedback and balance. It's just frustrating and not fun.

I wouldn't mind it to be replaced by a proper, intentional, combo system. Meanwhile it's just a broken mechanic.

LadyNalcarya · January 2016

No let it stay

No, simply because it has more practical purposes than just weaving. For example, imagine that your healer cant cancel their radiant opression if you were accidentaly hit for 90% of your hp. Or in pvp you started a channel ability and see a zerg approaching on the horizon. Or you're fighting manticora and he jumps at the middle of your skill animation and you cannot block.
Not to mention that being stuck in animation will make the combat much less responsive.
Some naive people hate animation cancelling mechanic because they cant/dont wanna weave and think that if they could weave, their dps would magically raise from 5k to 50k... But that is not true. Of course, weaving boosts dps, but so does correct rotation, good skillset, player's reaction etc.
That being said, pvp macros (that cause dying from a single arrow and seeing 10 attacks on your recap) should be eliminated, and seems like Zos is working on it.

TalonShina · January 2016

No let it stay

Heindrich wrote: »

Unless the combat system in ESO is radically reworked, animation cancelling is absolutely essential for high end content and competitive gameplay.

Let's be honest here... many of those calling for the end of AC do so because it seems like black magic to you. You don't understand it, it gives others an advantage and you cannot be bothered or you are unable to learn it yourself, so you want to take it away from others. But the fact is AC is simple, easy to learn, but nearly impossible to master. i.e. intentional or otherwise, it actually lends a lot of depth and skill to ESO combat.

What you probably don't realise is that almost everyone does it to an extent, just without knowing that they did. Every time you dodge-roll or block to deal with a heavy attack or red circles, there is a good chance that you cancelled whatever attack animation you were using. The difference between casual players and elites is that the elites do it intentionally and all the time and use AC offensively to enhance dps output.

For the record, I am only an average skill player. In terms of AC, I mostly just medium weave. I also use dodgeroll+Vigor or dodgeroll+Hardened Ward for defense. I bar-swap to AC buffs and apply shields quickly... that's it. My skill level does not currently allow me to do the more fancy stuff elite players are capable of... but that's okay. Please give me things to work on and aspire for. Stop pushing ESO towards a no-skill, no-challenge, no aspiration giant carebear adventuring themepark.

You sound like me as far as how i use AC. I see nothing wrong with AC you just have to practice and sometimes i still fudge it up

LadyNalcarya · January 2016

No let it stay

Mastery404 wrote: »

AC leads to lack of feedback and balance. It's just frustrating and not fun.

I wouldn't mind it to be replaced by a proper, intentional, combo system. Meanwhile it's just a broken mechanic.

Well, pls read the examples in my previous post. Do you really want to see something like this? Its also "animation cancelling".
And btw, this post illustrates how people who vote against it have no idea hwo the mechanic works.

TipsyDrow · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

I believe animation cancelling needs to be fixed, but not because some skilled players can do it well manually. but because it can be macroed allowing multiple skills to fire off virtually instantly.

Shadesofkin · January 2016

No let it stay

Keep it. There is nothing wrong with it.

Jura23 · January 2016

No let it stay

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Keep it. There is nothing wrong with it.

Well if the poll is correct and we have almost 50% of the ppl having some issues, just saying no won't do. But let's first see how the changees in animations coming with the next major patch work out.

olsborg · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

I animation cancel like the next guy, but it can be a bit overpowered vs those that dont and those that simply use the animations and enjoy the game. Animation cancel is abit too effective imo.

Alucardo · January 2016

No let it stay

olsborg wrote: »

I animation cancel like the next guy, but it can be a bit overpowered vs those that dont and those that simply use the animations and enjoy the game. Animation cancel is abit too effective imo.

PVP and end-game PVE are competitive environments. There should be a technique available to everyone that allows them to go that bit further and perform better against those who just stand there pushing the numbers on their keyboards.

Shadesofkin · January 2016

No let it stay

Jura23 wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Keep it. There is nothing wrong with it.

Well if the poll is correct and we have almost 50% of the ppl having some issues, just saying no won't do. But let's first see how the changees in animations coming with the next major patch work out.

Yeah but at that moment I couldn't think of a nice way to put my thoughts, so I went with as neutral sounding a post as I could.

Ultimately animation canceling is there for everyone to take advantage of and I don't truly believe there is anyone who doesn't do it because they consider it bad...they don't do it because they can't or don't really understand it (I am sure there are exceptions, this is a broad general statement for the sake of argument).

That, I believe, is the underlying issue; because they cannot do it or don't fully understand what it actually is, they feel betrayed by the game's mechanics and that players who do understand it and can take advantage of it are somehow at an unfair advantage.

Shadesofkin · January 2016

No let it stay

Ultimately, though, I think a large portion of us just want what is best for the game (and our characters, sure), so I can respect if they really believe it should go.

DRXHarbinger · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

Yes and here's why.....go get into a sword fight and try and WB the other guy and stop half way....see if you win the fight or not. All this calling it skill crap needs to stop. It's not skill it's being a key spamming *** who loves exploits. There should be some element or realism in combat and stopping an attack half way just kills it off. Pure and simple retardness bin it off and level things out a little bit more.