Should Vet Maelstrom have some type of SAVE function?

Morbash · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I've not yet completed arena, but I don't agree that a save feature needs to be put in place. Not all content is going to be completeable by everyone, and sometimes real life will get in the way. But each time you do it, the first rounds do become easier. 1-4 are now so easy that I had to double check that I didn't accidentally enter in non-vet mode.

And there is plenty of time to be able to walk away and take a break. I was going through it last night and walked away to take a shower. When I came back, I was still able to keep going.

If you have that many distractions IRL, then maybe the most challenging content in the game isn't designed for you. The last thing we need is another challenge dumbed down by whiners.

How is a save feature "dumbing down the challenge?" I'm not understanding how being able to sit in front of a computer for hours on end is considered a "challenge." That doesn't require skill. It requires zero responsibilities.

As @Nifty2g has stated many times, you are skipping learning how to master the previous stages. When I first tried vMA, I spent hours just to get past stages 5 and 6. Now 5 is almost as easy as 1-4 have become. Once I realize what I'm doing wrong on stage 6, that will also become easy. And I haven't even spent as much time or run through it as much as most of the people I know.

The rewards for completing this are some of the best weapons in the game. You should have to work for them.

Nothing is being skipped. You still have to complete the stages to even have a chance for one of those BiS weapons to drop. And even then, it's not guaranteed to be the exact weapon you want. In fact, it's very unlikely for the exact weapon and trait to drop; therefore, you'll be forced to run the content again. A save feature hurts no one. It doesn't directly nerf mobs/mechanics, and it certainly doesn't give anyone an advantage on the leaderboards since the ability to save would be available to everyone. What it does do is give people an option...an option that should have existed from the beginning.

Cinnamon_Spider · December 2015

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

Nolphi wrote: »

Workind dad with a bunch of kids... even if I L2P then I still would barely have the one hour needed to complete. And you seriously expect me to go through stages 1 to 8 in an hour to then have 1 or 2 rounds to practice round 9 before RL pulls me out of the game again? Its an insane argument to say that thats the best way to learn. Did your math teacher ask you to start at the beginning of the book each time he wanted to teach you something new?

Not being able to save progress ads nothing in terms of required skill, it just ads a lot in terms of required time. If you insist on having it all happen in one sitting then add a non-ranked vet practice mode where I can just practice a level of my chosing.

No, but my math teacher had me do the same problems over and over until I mastered them.

Jura23 · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Nolphi wrote: »

Workind dad with a bunch of kids... even if I L2P then I still would barely have the one hour needed to complete. And you seriously expect me to go through stages 1 to 8 in an hour to then have 1 or 2 rounds to practice round 9 before RL pulls me out of the game again? Its an insane argument to say that thats the best way to learn. Did your math teacher ask you to start at the beginning of the book each time he wanted to teach you something new?

Not being able to save progress ads nothing in terms of required skill, it just ads a lot in terms of required time. If you insist on having it all happen in one sitting then add a non-ranked vet practice mode where I can just practice a level of my chosing.

No, but my math teacher had me do the same problems over and over until I mastered them.

The problem is - in vMA even after you master something, you still do it over and over.

Cinnamon_Spider · December 2015

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

Jura23 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Nolphi wrote: »

Workind dad with a bunch of kids... even if I L2P then I still would barely have the one hour needed to complete. And you seriously expect me to go through stages 1 to 8 in an hour to then have 1 or 2 rounds to practice round 9 before RL pulls me out of the game again? Its an insane argument to say that thats the best way to learn. Did your math teacher ask you to start at the beginning of the book each time he wanted to teach you something new?

Not being able to save progress ads nothing in terms of required skill, it just ads a lot in terms of required time. If you insist on having it all happen in one sitting then add a non-ranked vet practice mode where I can just practice a level of my chosing.

No, but my math teacher had me do the same problems over and over until I mastered them.

The problem is - in vMA even after you master something, you still do it over and over.

And if you've mastered it, then what is the problem? I'll have to time my next run of 1-5 just to see how quick it is now.

Jura23 · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Nolphi wrote: »

Workind dad with a bunch of kids... even if I L2P then I still would barely have the one hour needed to complete. And you seriously expect me to go through stages 1 to 8 in an hour to then have 1 or 2 rounds to practice round 9 before RL pulls me out of the game again? Its an insane argument to say that thats the best way to learn. Did your math teacher ask you to start at the beginning of the book each time he wanted to teach you something new?

Not being able to save progress ads nothing in terms of required skill, it just ads a lot in terms of required time. If you insist on having it all happen in one sitting then add a non-ranked vet practice mode where I can just practice a level of my chosing.

No, but my math teacher had me do the same problems over and over until I mastered them.

The problem is - in vMA even after you master something, you still do it over and over.

And if you've mastered it, then what is the problem? I'll have to time my next run of 1-5 just to see how quick it is now.

As was mentioned above, most ppl will do arena multiple times simply because they won't get the drop they want.

Seriously. There is no 1 way everybody "should" learn how to complete the content. Better to say - there shouldn't be only 1 way, because there is no reason to be only 1 way.

Nestor · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

I think there should be some kind of training mode where you can leave and come back and pick up where you left off, Arena wise. However they should not get the full reward (or it should be pulled from a set of rewards one tier down) and should not be able to get on the Leaderboards.

Full rewards and Leaderboard position should only be for those who complete it one session.

Sharkano · December 2015

MMO's have been sued for doing exactly this kind of thing -- making people stay on endlessly for something. They should a save function if for no other reason than to protect themselves.

Nolphi · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

No, but my math teacher had me do the same problems over and over until I mastered them.

Did your 6th grade math teacher have you review grades 1 to 5 every class before introducing something new? If high school was organized this way then it would take you 20 years. Going to back to ESO: do you seriously expect me to master levels 1-8 (really get it down and do it under 60 mins) and then die 3 times in level 9 before my timer runs out and then come back later and start the entire thing over again..... would you seriously do that if you only have 60-90 minute max playing time per session?

Cinnamon_Spider · December 2015

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

Sharkano wrote: »

MMO's have been sued for doing exactly this kind of thing -- making people stay on endlessly for something. They should a save function if for no other reason than to protect themselves.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. No one is forced to do this content and can enjoy the game without ever entering the arena.

Nolphi wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

No, but my math teacher had me do the same problems over and over until I mastered them.

Did your 6th grade math teacher have you review grades 1 to 5 every class before introducing something new? If high school was organized this way then it would take you 20 years. Going to back to ESO: do you seriously expect me to master levels 1-8 (really get it down and do it under 60 mins) and then die 3 times in level 9 before my timer runs out and then come back later and start the entire thing over again..... would you seriously do that if you only have 60-90 minute max playing time per session?

It's been a while since I've been in school, but from what I recall they did start off with reviews of prior years. People learn through repetition.

And if you don't have the time necessary to do this content, then maybe this content isn't designed for you. There needs to be content in this game designed for all levels of players.

Nolphi · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

It's been a while since I've been in school, but from what I recall they did start off with reviews of prior years. People learn through repetition.

A skills review of grade 1 to 5 math is not the same as starting each lesson in grade 6 by completing grades 1 to 5 again. Its a simple analogy and you can apply it to anything in real life.

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

And if you don't have the time necessary to do this content, then maybe this content isn't designed for you. There needs to be content in this game designed for all levels of players.

I could fully accept that if the requirement to do it in one sitting would somehow significantly add to the difficulty. The only thing it ads is fatigue I guess and is that really how you want to test your player's skills in an MMO? Is it a matter being able to still perform well after 2 hours of intense play?

And like I said: if ZOS feels that the leader boards require this to happen in one sitting then go ahead and make a setting where I cannot rank on the leader board if I use the save function. I have been playing since beta, got 2 maxed out v16 characters and am able to pump out some 12-15 hours of game play each week without sacrificing work or home life. In fact its awesome that my wife and kids play too and we have a blast together. Putting the most powerful weapons in the game behind a mechanic that requires me to play 2-3 hours consecutively is simply not necessary...

Jura23 · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Sharkano wrote: »

MMO's have been sued for doing exactly this kind of thing -- making people stay on endlessly for something. They should a save function if for no other reason than to protect themselves.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. No one is forced to do this content and can enjoy the game without ever entering the arena.

Nolphi wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

No, but my math teacher had me do the same problems over and over until I mastered them.

Did your 6th grade math teacher have you review grades 1 to 5 every class before introducing something new? If high school was organized this way then it would take you 20 years. Going to back to ESO: do you seriously expect me to master levels 1-8 (really get it down and do it under 60 mins) and then die 3 times in level 9 before my timer runs out and then come back later and start the entire thing over again..... would you seriously do that if you only have 60-90 minute max playing time per session?

It's been a while since I've been in school, but from what I recall they did start off with reviews of prior years. People learn through repetition.

And if you don't have the time necessary to do this content, then maybe this content isn't designed for you. There needs to be content in this game designed for all levels of players.

One detail - this topic has nothing to do with level of players.

In other words - completing the arena in 1 session doesn't make anybody a better player.

eldavob14_ESO · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Yes for sure.

And also please look at the rewards, seems like outside of the final reward (maelstrom weapons), spending time in the arena is a money losing proposition.

nimander99 · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Should be a save feature at least half way through, maybe just exclude people who don't run it in one go from the leader boards?

IDK, but it is a frustration point... specially for those of us who dish nil damage but can survive indefinitely, by the Eight it can take loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time!

Venomback · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

There are, generally speaking, two types of players we are all talking about.

1) the very good player that can complete the vet maelstrom arena within 1-2 hours.

2) the player who may or may not be good but for whatever reason cannot complete the maelstrom arena within 1-2 hours.

There are plenty of reasons for both type of players to succeed or not succeed but it still all comes down to talking about the TIME involved.

Since the clock doesn't start till you enter, your actual leaderboard time is attributed to the time you spend playing the content. If you leave the arena, the clock should stop because you are no longer playing the content.

Your leaderboard ranking and ability to clear the arena, should be based solely on your skill to manage the mechanics of the arena and your ability to play your chosen class.

Just because they decided to let someone save their progress and pick up where they left off does not magically make them better at playing their class or managing the mechanics of the round(s). It will still take the average player a long time to get good at it and still have to repeat it to clear it.

The difference is they will not be stuck on round (X) and be forced to play the same thing over and over, and with no reward or benefit. The only real reward arrives at the end and from leaderboard if your lucky.

The challenge of the arena is great. Eventually it will get nerfed like WGT and ICP and VDSA and SO, deliberate or not, because more content will be added that will draw away from Maelstrom. Maintaining the level of difficulty and number of lives will potentially prevent some of the luster lost if a save function is added.

Already 84% vote yes and I know many players who don't even bother trying the maelstrom anymore because the time sink is just too much.

GreenSoup2HoT · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

NO *** LOL

Personofsecrets · December 2015

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

I can play this game all day every day non stop and that means that there shouldn't be a save option.

Personofsecrets · December 2015

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

Nifty2g wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

I have been warned not to offend you....but @Nifty2g , you are an imbecile.
And now ban me

Lovely contribution
But honestly you guys are not making any real valid points here, I'm against any form of save progression in Veteran content as it eliminates a learning process, call it elitist all you want. I really hope ZOS do not add this in. @ZOS_RichLambert please don't

>complains hardcore about the costs of vma
>no saving allowed

Personofsecrets · December 2015

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

I personally know people who are very good players and have had a hard time completing vMA because of time constraints. They perform multiple rolls, pull 20-30k DPS in grouped content, and just don't have the time to learn and complete later stages of vMA once they spend most of their evening getting to that point.

And to them I say oh well. Learn to adapt your life around ESO if you don't currently have the time to finish a simple vMA run. Leader boards really matter in this game and if more people were able to complete vMA, then I wouldn't personally get as much enjoyment from my fantasy leader board LARPing. And really, that is what matters, my friends can invest more into the game if they want to get more enjoyment from it.

Stikato · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

.

Septimus_Magna · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

In a perfect world there would be no need for a save option. Everyone would have countless hours of uninterrupted playtime without any crashes. The first clear might take a while but after that it would go quicker.

Fact is, there is no perfect world. Many players dont have enough time to clear it the first time, especially parents with small children. And even if there was an occassion where they did have enough time, there's always the risk of crashing and loosing all progress. Heck, I crashed 3x in pve yesterday, luckily not losing any dungeon progress.

The point that without a save function you get better at the early stages is definitly valid, however the point is thats its demotivating to be able to loose (hard earned) progress by events that you dont have any controle over. Im afraid this turns away many players from enjoying the content which is the opposite of what should happen.

Jeckll · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I can play this game all day every day non stop and that means that there shouldn't be a save option.

This might be the least clever thing I ever had to read on the Internet.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Leader boards really matter in this game

Yeah, they matter so much that they are broken for a month now and below 1% of the entire player base is listed there and/or cares. Definitely ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT parts of the game.

hrothbern · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

But there must be a penalty for "SAVE Progress" to keep the Leaderboards meaningfull.

The exhaustion from doing all stages non-stop behind each other is an essential part of the challenge, and essential for the leaderboards.

Being able to stop the game and do something social/private at any time you need to / want to, should not exclude someone from completing a vet Maelstrom.

And I would prefer as penalty something like a 100k deduction of the points achieved per "SAVE Progress" over excluding being listed in the Leaderboards at all.
That still keeps giving a feeling of progress for a more casual player.

Or for someone like me, getting older, rheumatoid fingers, for which more than 1 hour full concentration in such a fight is simply too exhausting.

Xantaria · December 2015

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

Nolphi wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

No, but my math teacher had me do the same problems over and over until I mastered them.

Did your 6th grade math teacher have you review grades 1 to 5 every class before introducing something new? If high school was organized this way then it would take you 20 years. Going to back to ESO: do you seriously expect me to master levels 1-8 (really get it down and do it under 60 mins) and then die 3 times in level 9 before my timer runs out and then come back later and start the entire thing over again..... would you seriously do that if you only have 60-90 minute max playing time per session?

if you only have 60-90 minutes then too bad this content isn't amde for you. Well, take a weekend to learn it. After that you'll be able to complete it in exactly the time window you have.

xarguideb17_ESO · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

WolfingHour wrote: »

Yes.

But with a negative impact on the final score.

I think there should be a negative impact on the final score if you do it in a single run, or at least put a "nolife" flag next to the score.
It's unhealthy.

Personofsecrets · December 2015

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

Let's get serious for just a second. Why wouldn't anyone want the challenge that comes with having to play x amount of hours in a row?

I play video games hard core. That means that I am used to all of my progress being wiped out as soon as I make a small mistake. I get that it can be discouraging to lose all of your progress for things that are mostly out of your control, but that is part of the challenge. That is part of the challenge of vMA.

What is important about that challenge is that it holds the sacred cow of adapting on the high pedestal that it should be at. If you want something, like higher DPS, you have to adapt. If you want to be able to spend a couple of hours in a dungeon, then you have to adapt your life around that goal. That is the beauty of the vMA challenge and adapting.

When I see the leader boards, I see something to be proud of. I mean, you've got a bunch of players that are able to sit down for 1-2 hours and play a video game. There is a lot of skill in properly balancing life priorities and that comes with completing vMA. Balancing life around ESO and adapting is a fun challenge to be proud of.

Soobley · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Just finished leveling a magicka nb to try and get into this arena because I've been told they have a pretty easy time if you manage it right.

But still, it's probably going to be atleast a 10+hour day with 300+ ping and subpar gear, if I can even get it done in one sitting that is.

I don't see the point in there not being a save point, from what I've heard after you finish it the first time it's considerably easier and most the time I see videos of people doing it in 1-2 hours. It's only the learning curve for it that is affected by there being no save option.

Jeckll · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Let's get serious for just a second.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Balancing life around ESO and adapting is a fun challenge to be proud of.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I can play this game all day every day non stop

Yeah, you clearly need a lot of skill to balance real life and ingame while playing the game all day non stop.

Dymence · December 2015

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

Jeckll wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Let's get serious for just a second.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Balancing life around ESO and adapting is a fun challenge to be proud of.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I can play this game all day every day non stop

Yeah, you clearly need a lot of skill to balance real life and ingame while playing the game all day non stop.

You failed to detect the troll. Insert new coin and try again.

Seriously though people if you need to have a save function so badly reduce the amount of lives to 50 like @asneakybanana said and it'll be all cool. There needs to be a game over function and I don't really care anymore in whatever shape or form it comes.

Also, to everyone who thinks not being able to complete it in one sitting doesn't make you a worse player, keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about not being able to complete it. Everyone who has completed it knows the truth, anyways.

Venomback · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I personally know people who are very good players and have had a hard time completing vMA because of time constraints. They perform multiple rolls, pull 20-30k DPS in grouped content, and just don't have the time to learn and complete later stages of vMA once they spend most of their evening getting to that point.

And to them I say oh well. Learn to adapt your life around ESO if you don't currently have the time to finish a simple vMA run. Leader boards really matter in this game and if more people were able to complete vMA, then I wouldn't personally get as much enjoyment from my fantasy leader board LARPing. And really, that is what matters, my friends can invest more into the game if they want to get more enjoyment from it.

You, like many others are missing the point. Even if there is a save function, a player still needs to invest the same amount of time. The only difference is, it does not have to be done in one sitting. Just because I can get up an walk away and come back the next day doesn't mean I can suddenly complete VMA when I return. I still need to spend hours and hours learning the fights.

Anyone who runs the VMA should have a chance to get on the leaderboards. I spent an hour an half on one round in the past. If I was able to save my progress, I wouldn't suddenly be able to complete that same round in 10 minutes. So, my time spent in the VMA should count for leaderboards.

Right now, there are people on the LB with a score of 1000 or so? and others with over 400,000. I don't believe a save function will magically ruin your fantasy LARPing.

Jeckll · December 2015

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Dymence wrote: »

Seriously though people if you need to have a save function so badly reduce the amount of lives to 50 like @asneakybanana said and it'll be all cool. There needs to be a game over function and I don't really care anymore in whatever shape or form it comes.
i accept that I'm probably talking for a hilariously small minorty here and hope you get the features you wish for.

ftfy.