zornyan wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Templars to me anyway are fine in PvP, actually they are essential.

Just because you want to build for solo play, doesn't change the fact that you have incredible group utility. That is what the class is.

Yes, Stamplars have less self healing than other classes, but you can also cleanse yourself and your team in a large area, which is one of the best skills in the game for group pvp. Both morphs of restoring aura are incredible. Spear shards is incredible for group stamina recovery and regen.

The only thing I agree with is that stamina templars could use at least one healing morph to be stamina based, I don;t see that causing any issues, as long as its not breath of life...

why not bol?
Id like even more if passives didn't only affect class skills. Would love a nice bonus for my rally/vigor

cause then most of the magicka templars (me included) would say bye bye eso

I don't get it, why?

Magicks templars have superior damage, and endgame dps, even alcast was discussing how blabafat was hitting harder than him.

So

Stamina templar has.

Jabs, and javelin, low-average dps endgame, worse off in pvp than any other class due to no mobility and no burst and no healing buff.

Magicka templar has

Healing
More damage
Far larger selection of skills to you
More heals
Passives geared more towards magicka,
And heals.

Because BOL is THE morph for Healers?!
You can have honor the dead but not BOL

Idk I always thought stamplars had superior dps to magicka Templars. I too saw the discussion but they didnt know why he was hitting harder.
Most likely due to boss resistances which affects the dps in that specific fight but you cant say magicka templars have more dps cause of that.

Magicka classes have more skills because there are more stamina weapons you can choose from and as a stamina class you need a magicka dump but as a magicka class you already have your stamina dump with block, cc break, sprint and sneak

Where are the passives more geared to magicka? Last time I checked the balanced warrior was giving 6% weapon damage and not 6% spelldamage

I know stamina Templars are in no good place but thats the case for Templars in general. So you cant put Stamina Templars in a better place by ruining Magicka Templars...

Well go over to tamrial foundry, magicka dps builds are pulling 25-30k dps on single target bosses in vet dungeons, where as alcast and other Stamplar's are only managing 20-25k tops.

They checked alcast vs blabafat and it wasn't boss resistances, infact most mobs have more spell than physical resist, msgicks builds benefit from burning light being buffed by thumatauge, and with the cp cap stam builds can't afford an extra 100 points into that .

hm then give me a link pls I never saw a magicka tempalr doing that stated single target dps in vWGT or vICP
I had up to 30k dps on crematory guards with my Templar but thats no boss and in easily bursted down

well yea therefor magicka builds invest in thaumaturge and have to deal with crappy Stamina based cp passives?
and its easier to stack weapon damage than stacking spelldamage

AfkNinja wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Where are the passives more geared to magicka? Last time I checked the balanced warrior was giving 6% weapon damage and not 6% spelldamage

"Activating a Dawn's Wrath ability:

Grants Minor Sorcery to nearby allies (including yourself), increasing Spell Damage by 5% for 20 seconds."

Seriously dude, do you even play Templar? Also most of the restoring light tree and dawns wrath tree are both pretty much devoted to Magicka Templars only. Stamina Templar is easily the bottom of the totem pole for stamina classes and debatably worst overall class in the game.

This passive is a group buff and every class has one of these like dks give 5% weapon damage so if you play in a group the magicka Templar will have 6% less power than the Stamina Templar. For solo play yes its for magicka templars but you have a permanent 6% buff isnt that way better than a 5% buff you have to recast every 20 seconds?

Templar passives are all working on the abilities in both trees or are really general passives. Yes there are just 2 stamina Morphs (plus rune focus and eclipse have main effects that scale of neither stamina or magicka) but you can still buff repentance heal by 48% just like a magicka templar can. You can use power of the light every 6 seconds to gain ultimade there is no difference to magicka Templars.

Seriously who has no clue about his class?

OP put on medium armor and died in PvP - created thread requesting every skill have stam morph.

Imagine if this guy played a stam sorc. He would certainly be let down by the stam morphs available.

Repentance is not reliable period. Even with engine guardian (which then forces you to use this set, forcing the use of a set to make a skill useful is the sign of bad design.)

Healing ritual: Exactly, it sucks. Maybe make it a .5 sec cast stamina heal or HOT. That way it can be interrupted with skillful play but most of the time you'll get it off.

Illuminate: It's irrelevant that it requires you to use a skill as if you are a Magic Templar you should have it up 100% anyway. 6% wep dmg is only 1% better, it's a wash man. Honestly they should just combine them and give us a different group passive like +5% healing taken or w/e. Would work for stam and magic.

"I wont even take time to comment on your abilities because its bs. Of course there are more magicka abilities in the class trees due to the fact we have 2 magicka weapons where 1 is just for healing while we have 4 stamina weapons"

Stam templar has the least amount of stamina morphs of any class.

I read your whole post, and I agree Stamina Templar is in a way bad shape. I also agree breath of life is the wrong skill to change to stamina. However we disagree about magicka temp, they only need minor adjustments.

Given that both morphs of healing ritual are worthless, change one of them to something that helps stam.

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Zeni, we need Blazing spear,blazing shield and radiant glory to scale max stamina.

I believe you wanted to say stam/wpn dmg? Mixing in shield made your post confusing. I wouldn't like offensive skiils scale of max stam since not everybody here is stacking max stam while still being stamina.

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Javelin is a pretty good CC, but you'd he using jabs+javelin to get the effect of wrecking blow, except it's more expensive to cast those two skills, and you don't get the empower buff.

At least it looks cooler than wrecking blow. They should add major fracture to Binding Javelin as Templar has no source of major fracture except sword/shield. Plus it just makes sense, you just threw a javelin into some dude/ladies chest, I'd say that seriously fked their armor.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Imagine if this guy played a stam sorc. He would certainly be let down by the stam morphs available.

I'm not sure who you were replying to, but as for me I think Stamina Sorc morphs are amazing. The weapon damage bonus they received, along with strong in-class passives and long duration abilities really plays well for them. I agree with your assessment that the magic-morph boundless is better than the stamina version (and I"m not sure why apart from the fact that they perhaps expect you to sprint to make up for the lost speed boost, but then that just eats up more resources). I personally use boundless as my magicka dump on my Storc, and I reckon that's what you do too. Its damage output is pretty negligible, and the only thing I'm not sure on is whether the disintegrate proc is magicka based off magicka skills, or if it is simply scaled off level or the highest stat (mag or stam). If it is the latter then there really is no reason to ever use thundering presence, because the baseline lightning damage proc is pretty minimal. Bound Armaments is amazing: minor armor buff (whatever) +stam as well as +heavy damage, what isn't to like here? It also gives you access to the whole list of amazing regen passives from daedric skill line. All you need to do to get bonus weapon (as well as spell damage) to equal a templar is have 3 class skills on your bar, which is probably what you would do anyway as a Storc. To be fair the Templar will probably have 3 class skills on his bar anyway. In terms of self heals, ironically the Stamina Templar is behind when compared to a Stamina Sorc. Also, all ultimates and powers are cheaper on a Sorc vs. a Temp, and all regenerations are superior on a sorc vs a Temp (though Rune Focus/Repentance could be argued to adjust for regeneration a little). In short, I wouldn't discount the strength of your Stamina Sorc with respect to Templar. In many ways I think they handle the stamina role better than Templars now.

In both cases these classes have what I would consider must have class skills for being weapon dps:
Templar: Binding javelin, Biting Jabs (due to lack of heal this is inferior to its magic counterpart, and can be replaced by WB/Tornado. The only loss would be in the proc chance missed, or wearing at someone's stamina if they block/roll), Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, Power of the Light, and possibly Blazing Shield. Templar in general needs 1 skill each from the 3 class lines to take full advantage of class passives on each bar. The choice to use Jabs is a tough one because it is channel, and there are other good choices as well such as Steel Tornado with great range, damage, and ease of use.

Sorcerer: Bound Armaments (to get its bonuses plus associated passives), Boundless Storm (bonuses + class passives), Crit Surge (bonuses + passives), Overload, Dark Exchange, and Bolt Escape. There are other skills the sorc could take advantage of, but this kit works very well when combined with any of the weapon skill lines you want to go with. I recommend bolt escape because it lets you cc anyone who gets close to you as well as offering the ability to teleport through someone as they fire a projectile at you, evading the damage entirely.

Both classes can take strong advantage of Flawless Dawnbreaker as a stamina build, the sorc comes out ahead on this because of its 11% lower ultimate costs.

At any regard I say all of this to make the point that the Stamina Sorc is no slouch. It has great mitigation for a stamina dps and excellent mobility. I realize I'm not educating you about anything you do not already know, I'm just making the point clear that I don't see why a stamina sorc would be unhappy with the skills they have at their disposal. My general complaints about Templar have to do with very strange design choices. The problems with all their current cc being hard cc, and therefore nullifying each other is one of them. Why can't the charge be a snare like lotus fan for instance? Why is a miniscule knockback considered a hard cc on Jabs? Why has Eclipse always been that skill that Templars would love to use, but don't because its never really worked like it was intended? Why is power of the light so horrible? I accept and understand the fact that some skills are just required slotting for certain builds. I can't imagine playing a templar of any kind without Repentance and I reckon it takes the same place as Bound Armaments would on a stamina sorc. I also don't feel that Vampire is a very good alternative for Templar, given that I personally feel it takes more from the build right now than not having it. In short if a Templar wants combat mobility I think they need to suck it up and use the blade cloak morph from DW, or possibly consider the retreating maneuvers skill (I'm more hesitant about this one).

With regard to the topic as a whole, Templar does need fixes though on a lot of the skills, as have been enumerated on hundreds of posts since Beta. It can be used to great effect, but it does require much more strategic thought than most builds with all of the skills that are treated as hard cc (that really aren't hard cc) and all of the skills that simply need to go back to the drawing board. I'll just list a few obvious problems:

1) GCD on the Spear Charge, and all its annoying glitches like getting a 15+ second skill/block/roll/mouse attack lockout.
2) Eclipse being a buff to some DK's and a free gift of cc immunity to everyone, even though it can be easily purged by all. Very difficult to actually target someone with this skill as well. Clunky. Its like a really horrible version of reflective scales that you put on other people.
3) Sun Shield needs help, badly.
4) Power of the Light needs to do damage of its own. Its like a really bad version of mark target.
5) Spear Charge is a hard cc.
6) Removal of Blinding Flashes has taken away the only class aoe cc. Solution might be to give aoe function to Blazing Spear/Luminous Shards. This would be really nice for Templar Tanks.
7) Slow moving heavily telegraphed projectiles make it easy to dodge roll.
8) Binding Javelin damage is really terrible, particularly considering how brief the cc is on this skill (3 seconds) and the cooldown it puts the enemy under. It should not clash with the other slushy cc's of the class.
9) They need to do something about the fact that Stamina Templars have the worst self healing of every class in the game. Its ironic considering they are supposedly the 'healing class'. A templar rally/vigor is going to be significantly weaker than a rally/vigor from a DK (coagulating + obsidian and associated passives), an NB (for slotting siphon skill, and passive attribute bonuses), and to a lesser extent the Sorc (Crit heals).

All of these complaints have been iterated before. I think the real issue is that Breath of Life completely throws the balance issue out of whack with respect to healing on a Templar, and they don't know what to make of that. The rest of the Restoring Light skill line is really not a problem. Rune Focus (Armor power), Repentance (resource recovery power, like dark exchange or roar), cleaning ritual (hot & cleanse, the latter which can be easily obtained by everyone from pvp). Healing Ritual is pretty awful, apart from healing large quantities of players (as in a siege, flag defense, 14-man dungeon etc)