Champion System Catch-up Mechanic

AlnilamE · October 2015

Oh. OK.

Thanks @Enodoc!! Since that was posted a while ago, I thought that they had made another adjustment.

Put me back in the "not happy" camp. :-)

remilafo · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

`

remilafo wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

I like the new formula but PLEASE PLEASE

you can't hurt existing players by taking away their earned time.

You must perform a xp conversion from the current system to the new one. please PLEASE convert the XP otherwise people end up losing DAYS of time , you can't do this..

Convert the XP.

What does that even mean? "Converting" the XP earned by players over the cap would rob them of 10s if not 100s of millions of experience. How would that help them?

oh okay, i share the position that many spoke about in this thread earlier i was just adding my plea.

The conversion would occur with the hard cap of cp which is 3600, once the conversion is completed the player would be locked in only to be able to use the posted 501 cp.

the TOTAL xp needed to get 3600 cp in the current system vs the New proposed system is only like 11% or something like that, it's not a massive striking difference.

the position myself and other have taken is that depending where you are above or below the 501 soft cap would either provide you will massive extra xp or drastically rob you of xp.

a xp conversion with a cap of 3600 would alleviate these issues for everyone. As stated before once the conversion is completed the 501 softcap is enforced on the player.

Geemarc · October 2015

One good thing with this change is once you hit 501 champion points there will be no need to buy anymore experience scrolls.

No one is going to intentionally grind points at 1.5x multiplier. Personally I don't think champion points should ever require more than 400k experience.

Sharkano · October 2015

The guys who run this company are suicidal.

Kronuxx · October 2015

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Atarax wrote: »
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

@Ezareth there modified it, it still doesn't change anything. they are gonna chop the head off the snake...

I just think this is going to be one of those things where everyone is going to have to try the system out before commenting further. We've all pretty much said our piece. I think we can all agree the system as it exists now is preferable to the one that exists on live.

agreed, id roll with it if it was a soft cap at 501 with catch up in mind, but the hard cap pretty well does it for me. im a progressor, so this combined with the huge gear grind.... yeah for got it.
Mcnick wrote: »
Mcnick wrote: »
Paulington wrote: »
Hey all.

Myself and @Zinaroth have been discussing this system and whilst we have differing opinions on whether or not there should be a hard cap in the system we believe we have come up with two viable systems.

I will let @Zinaroth explain his system in the post he makes so I will focus on mine here.
XP Required = 100,000 + [CP Rank * (300,000/CP CAP)]
My suggestion is that the CP at the cap takes 400,000 XP to earn and everything prior to that takes <400,000 XP down to a base of 100,000 XP for CP Rank 1.

My first example is that with Orsinium the cap be set to 600 CP instead of the current 501, this means in 2.2 the graph of XP required vs. CP would look like this:

Once you hit the cap of 600 it levels out and each CP over the cap requires 400k XP. This means that those people who continue playing will feel like they are progressing their character still and not having to earn millions of XP for ever infinitesimal gains. We have to remember that it is ultimately irrelevant if someone has 2,000 CP over the cap because they can only spend the cap so why artificially limit their CP gain rate? This game is "play your way", so if they want to grind CP before the cap so they can "cap out" as soon as it is raised, why not?

Now, we have a cap of 600 with Orsinium release, when and how is the cap raised? We all know we dislike not knowing when things will happen and like to plan ahead, so my suggestion is a biannual CP cap raise on pre-determined dates. The cap would raise by 375 CP twice a year.

Of course if this rate of cap increase is too slow it could be modified, but I think 750 CP per year is a solid rate of cap increase based upon the expected life cycle of this game at release.

Now the important part is that when the cap is raised, the XP required for the CP below the cap changes also. Here is a comparison graph for the cap at 600 and the first cap raise to 975.

As you can see, it becomes easier to gain the first CP Ranks and "catch up" to those at the cap as time goes on. This means that even if you start playing ESO when the cap is 2,100 you can with effort catch up to those at the cap.

With this system, enlightenment would remain unchanged at 400,000 XP per day. This means people with low CP will get more CP per day than those at the cap if they only use their enlightenment each day.

DISCLAIMER: I've yet to fully flesh this out and may have made a mistake or two throwing it together. I don't claim that this is THE solution but I believe it is better than the current solution. I would be open to a combination of my system and @Zinaroth's system where CP get more expensive after the cap but it doesn't go above 400k XP per CP prior to the current cap. I'm just looking for input and advice on this.

Thanks to @Zinaroth for helping me out here!
ya except increasing the cap 2 times a year at ur rate would just ruin the game and put us back in the position were in.. do it montly at like 25-50 cp at a time that is very reasonable thats 1-2 cp a day that isnt hard for anyone at all imo especially cuz you get enlightened once a day so if you cant get 1 cp a day thats not our problem it requires literally 10 mins of gameplay to grind out a cp lvl if its enlightened a reasonable cap so we all would feel like it is character progression would be 25-30 cp a month we would eventually catch up to the people with high numbers and they would stay around the same number cuz its harder for them to earn makes perfect sense but if you wait 6 months to 1 year to raise the cap its gonna kill it or put us back in the same position were in right now which makes no sense monthly cap raises makes most sense not 6 month to 1 year at 300-400 cp no... makes no sense... then we have to do the same exact grind literally everyone though thats behind this time and i personaly know people with over 1500 so this wont effect them but if we did a monthly 25-50 cp us peeps that were behind could eventually 1 month be caught up to the people at 1500+ but idk if that will be possible for anyone with this in effect good idea with the cp system bad setup i agree the cap could be a lil higher than 501 but we dont really know what can happen till they announce how often and how much these cp cap increases will be maybe 50 cp a month is a lil high but if its a cap they make the exp lower to get cp instead of higher if its a catch up mechanic and its only harder for people ahead of the cp cap thats the only people it should be harder for is the people ahead of the cp cap period
and at the same time it would keep us all on the same level of game play and it would truly come down to how skillful the player is :P
Or, they could use this formula instead:

XP Cost for next CP=MIN(400000,400000/(CAP/(NEXT CP^(NEXT CP/CAP))))

Which solves all the problems people seem to be concerned about (see my previous posts), regardless of what they make the cap.

With this formula, it always keeps players within 30 1,000,000 xp play sessions to get within 70-80% of the cap, and never costs more than 400,000 xp per cp.

This is how a catch-up should work.
again, my issue isn't the equations proposed. its the environment they are being put into. the game environment doesn't provide the means to support these equations (as i have pointed out in a previous post, that i linked at the bottom). this will not provide a means of catch up in ESO. it does in rift, but rift is a whole different game, in just about every respect with regard to experience gains.

ultimately this is an irrelevant change (still allows for a large gap), that potentially impacts the game negatively in the form of financial gain. the hard cap produces an environment where people that would otherwise continue paying won't benefit- so naturally players will stop paying. the environment still requires some paying but much lesser than the current live. so sustained income is greatly diminished by these equations. this forces a small sustained income bracket, requiring a larger burst income bracket (which is how B2P/F2P operates). it also won't provide much catching up, in an environment that doesn't provide the content needed to just progress "naturally" from a more casual players point of view. it still requires them to grind to be proficient, because the quests are too low yield for the champion system to progress for them. but even if my estimates are wrong, its irrelevant... whats the point of having 501CPs with you're facing 501CPs with end-game gold gear, and you can barely get out of the VR14/VR15 <color> gear. a modest "rarity" component is okay, with the current CP system, because you can offset short-falls with that system freely. besides, right now 400 hours of gear grinding equates to 400 hours in the champion system, so ill gladly mob grind (mob drops for deconstruction) AND node farm as i do now on live. making tradeskill items substantially rare, and locking players at caps, diminishes return and thus satisfaction of working towards end-game gear.

im also 100% for a CP locked server in pvp. their request is not unreasonable from this PVE'ers point of view....

in the current form, an equation essentially applies a rule to a human, in an inadequate environment for success: see link for my argument.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2345892/#Comment_2345892

this was why my proposal is what it is (modify current content to achieve a result), at the bottom of the comment i posted here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2342834/#Comment_2342834

I will have to disagree with you. Games are programs, which ultimately use logic and mathematics to operate. And yes, @Atarax is right. I would like ZOS to use the equation he provided. The problem is that we need a drastic measure of providing catch up to new players and recently new players. In addition, the imbalances of this game are based on bad equations. You must have not played at launch, because then you would have understood. Weapon skills and stamina skills scaling off of magicka; EXP gain for vet levels when they were first introduced and their scaling with quests; and now the CP system. You want it done right, then it needs to use the right equation. So yes, it is about equations in this game and yes, every equation that's used for game mechanics is relevant. That's how exp is calculated, how damage is calculated. This whole damn game is about formulas. You're only kidding yourself if you don't think so.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO · October 2015

Kronuxx wrote: »
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Atarax wrote: »
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

@Ezareth there modified it, it still doesn't change anything. they are gonna chop the head off the snake...

I just think this is going to be one of those things where everyone is going to have to try the system out before commenting further. We've all pretty much said our piece. I think we can all agree the system as it exists now is preferable to the one that exists on live.

agreed, id roll with it if it was a soft cap at 501 with catch up in mind, but the hard cap pretty well does it for me. im a progressor, so this combined with the huge gear grind.... yeah for got it.
Mcnick wrote: »
Mcnick wrote: »
Paulington wrote: »
Hey all.

Myself and @Zinaroth have been discussing this system and whilst we have differing opinions on whether or not there should be a hard cap in the system we believe we have come up with two viable systems.

I will let @Zinaroth explain his system in the post he makes so I will focus on mine here.
XP Required = 100,000 + [CP Rank * (300,000/CP CAP)]
My suggestion is that the CP at the cap takes 400,000 XP to earn and everything prior to that takes <400,000 XP down to a base of 100,000 XP for CP Rank 1.

My first example is that with Orsinium the cap be set to 600 CP instead of the current 501, this means in 2.2 the graph of XP required vs. CP would look like this:

Once you hit the cap of 600 it levels out and each CP over the cap requires 400k XP. This means that those people who continue playing will feel like they are progressing their character still and not having to earn millions of XP for ever infinitesimal gains. We have to remember that it is ultimately irrelevant if someone has 2,000 CP over the cap because they can only spend the cap so why artificially limit their CP gain rate? This game is "play your way", so if they want to grind CP before the cap so they can "cap out" as soon as it is raised, why not?

Now, we have a cap of 600 with Orsinium release, when and how is the cap raised? We all know we dislike not knowing when things will happen and like to plan ahead, so my suggestion is a biannual CP cap raise on pre-determined dates. The cap would raise by 375 CP twice a year.

Of course if this rate of cap increase is too slow it could be modified, but I think 750 CP per year is a solid rate of cap increase based upon the expected life cycle of this game at release.

Now the important part is that when the cap is raised, the XP required for the CP below the cap changes also. Here is a comparison graph for the cap at 600 and the first cap raise to 975.

As you can see, it becomes easier to gain the first CP Ranks and "catch up" to those at the cap as time goes on. This means that even if you start playing ESO when the cap is 2,100 you can with effort catch up to those at the cap.

With this system, enlightenment would remain unchanged at 400,000 XP per day. This means people with low CP will get more CP per day than those at the cap if they only use their enlightenment each day.

DISCLAIMER: I've yet to fully flesh this out and may have made a mistake or two throwing it together. I don't claim that this is THE solution but I believe it is better than the current solution. I would be open to a combination of my system and @Zinaroth's system where CP get more expensive after the cap but it doesn't go above 400k XP per CP prior to the current cap. I'm just looking for input and advice on this.

Thanks to @Zinaroth for helping me out here!
ya except increasing the cap 2 times a year at ur rate would just ruin the game and put us back in the position were in.. do it montly at like 25-50 cp at a time that is very reasonable thats 1-2 cp a day that isnt hard for anyone at all imo especially cuz you get enlightened once a day so if you cant get 1 cp a day thats not our problem it requires literally 10 mins of gameplay to grind out a cp lvl if its enlightened a reasonable cap so we all would feel like it is character progression would be 25-30 cp a month we would eventually catch up to the people with high numbers and they would stay around the same number cuz its harder for them to earn makes perfect sense but if you wait 6 months to 1 year to raise the cap its gonna kill it or put us back in the same position were in right now which makes no sense monthly cap raises makes most sense not 6 month to 1 year at 300-400 cp no... makes no sense... then we have to do the same exact grind literally everyone though thats behind this time and i personaly know people with over 1500 so this wont effect them but if we did a monthly 25-50 cp us peeps that were behind could eventually 1 month be caught up to the people at 1500+ but idk if that will be possible for anyone with this in effect good idea with the cp system bad setup i agree the cap could be a lil higher than 501 but we dont really know what can happen till they announce how often and how much these cp cap increases will be maybe 50 cp a month is a lil high but if its a cap they make the exp lower to get cp instead of higher if its a catch up mechanic and its only harder for people ahead of the cp cap thats the only people it should be harder for is the people ahead of the cp cap period
and at the same time it would keep us all on the same level of game play and it would truly come down to how skillful the player is :P
Or, they could use this formula instead:

XP Cost for next CP=MIN(400000,400000/(CAP/(NEXT CP^(NEXT CP/CAP))))

Which solves all the problems people seem to be concerned about (see my previous posts), regardless of what they make the cap.

With this formula, it always keeps players within 30 1,000,000 xp play sessions to get within 70-80% of the cap, and never costs more than 400,000 xp per cp.

This is how a catch-up should work.
again, my issue isn't the equations proposed. its the environment they are being put into. the game environment doesn't provide the means to support these equations (as i have pointed out in a previous post, that i linked at the bottom). this will not provide a means of catch up in ESO. it does in rift, but rift is a whole different game, in just about every respect with regard to experience gains.

ultimately this is an irrelevant change (still allows for a large gap), that potentially impacts the game negatively in the form of financial gain. the hard cap produces an environment where people that would otherwise continue paying won't benefit- so naturally players will stop paying. the environment still requires some paying but much lesser than the current live. so sustained income is greatly diminished by these equations. this forces a small sustained income bracket, requiring a larger burst income bracket (which is how B2P/F2P operates). it also won't provide much catching up, in an environment that doesn't provide the content needed to just progress "naturally" from a more casual players point of view. it still requires them to grind to be proficient, because the quests are too low yield for the champion system to progress for them. but even if my estimates are wrong, its irrelevant... whats the point of having 501CPs with you're facing 501CPs with end-game gold gear, and you can barely get out of the VR14/VR15 <color> gear. a modest "rarity" component is okay, with the current CP system, because you can offset short-falls with that system freely. besides, right now 400 hours of gear grinding equates to 400 hours in the champion system, so ill gladly mob grind (mob drops for deconstruction) AND node farm as i do now on live. making tradeskill items substantially rare, and locking players at caps, diminishes return and thus satisfaction of working towards end-game gear.

im also 100% for a CP locked server in pvp. their request is not unreasonable from this PVE'ers point of view....

in the current form, an equation essentially applies a rule to a human, in an inadequate environment for success: see link for my argument.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2345892/#Comment_2345892

this was why my proposal is what it is (modify current content to achieve a result), at the bottom of the comment i posted here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2342834/#Comment_2342834
I will have to disagree with you. Games are programs, which ultimately use logic and mathematics to operate. And yes, @Atarax is right. I would like ZOS to use the equation he provided. The problem is that we need a drastic measure of providing catch up to new players and recently new players. It is about equations in this game. That's how exp is calculated, how damage is calculated. This whole damn game is about formulas. You're only kidding yourself if you don't think so.

well your lack of reading is your flaw... i didn't say anything about ALL formulas and in fact focused squarely on this one aspect of the game with regards to an "equation", which this thread is all about. in fact, i said its a great equation, just not one that fits in the ESO environment. you're just assuming and injecting context that isn't there. i will also point out that after looking at the numbers presented, the player's complaints for and against the cap/catch up, applying the equations to the the actual return for the player and its intended function, i pointed out that this ONE equation will not fix the problem (as many others have pointed out.). being a theory-crafter, i laugh at the notion that you would even put such an accusation out lol.uh..... duh its just one big, glorified calculator....

also, if you bothered to read my postings, you would see that im not against an actual, intelligently designed catch-up. i even presented an alternative route (i even included my proposal which i assume you didn't read also), to help not only "new players" (which i consider a joke of an argument) but more specifically casual players, without hindering/disregarding consistent players.

maxjapank · October 2015

[

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Kronuxx wrote: »
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Atarax wrote: »
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

@Ezareth there modified it, it still doesn't change anything. they are gonna chop the head off the snake...

I just think this is going to be one of those things where everyone is going to have to try the system out before commenting further. We've all pretty much said our piece. I think we can all agree the system as it exists now is preferable to the one that exists on live.

agreed, id roll with it if it was a soft cap at 501 with catch up in mind, but the hard cap pretty well does it for me. im a progressor, so this combined with the huge gear grind.... yeah for got it.
Mcnick wrote: »
Mcnick wrote: »
Paulington wrote: »
Hey all.

Myself and @Zinaroth have been discussing this system and whilst we have differing opinions on whether or not there should be a hard cap in the system we believe we have come up with two viable systems.

I will let @Zinaroth explain his system in the post he makes so I will focus on mine here.
XP Required = 100,000 + [CP Rank * (300,000/CP CAP)]
My suggestion is that the CP at the cap takes 400,000 XP to earn and everything prior to that takes <400,000 XP down to a base of 100,000 XP for CP Rank 1.

My first example is that with Orsinium the cap be set to 600 CP instead of the current 501, this means in 2.2 the graph of XP required vs. CP would look like this:

Once you hit the cap of 600 it levels out and each CP over the cap requires 400k XP. This means that those people who continue playing will feel like they are progressing their character still and not having to earn millions of XP for ever infinitesimal gains. We have to remember that it is ultimately irrelevant if someone has 2,000 CP over the cap because they can only spend the cap so why artificially limit their CP gain rate? This game is "play your way", so if they want to grind CP before the cap so they can "cap out" as soon as it is raised, why not?

Now, we have a cap of 600 with Orsinium release, when and how is the cap raised? We all know we dislike not knowing when things will happen and like to plan ahead, so my suggestion is a biannual CP cap raise on pre-determined dates. The cap would raise by 375 CP twice a year.

Of course if this rate of cap increase is too slow it could be modified, but I think 750 CP per year is a solid rate of cap increase based upon the expected life cycle of this game at release.

Now the important part is that when the cap is raised, the XP required for the CP below the cap changes also. Here is a comparison graph for the cap at 600 and the first cap raise to 975.

As you can see, it becomes easier to gain the first CP Ranks and "catch up" to those at the cap as time goes on. This means that even if you start playing ESO when the cap is 2,100 you can with effort catch up to those at the cap.

With this system, enlightenment would remain unchanged at 400,000 XP per day. This means people with low CP will get more CP per day than those at the cap if they only use their enlightenment each day.

DISCLAIMER: I've yet to fully flesh this out and may have made a mistake or two throwing it together. I don't claim that this is THE solution but I believe it is better than the current solution. I would be open to a combination of my system and @Zinaroth's system where CP get more expensive after the cap but it doesn't go above 400k XP per CP prior to the current cap. I'm just looking for input and advice on this.

Thanks to @Zinaroth for helping me out here!
ya except increasing the cap 2 times a year at ur rate would just ruin the game and put us back in the position were in.. do it montly at like 25-50 cp at a time that is very reasonable thats 1-2 cp a day that isnt hard for anyone at all imo especially cuz you get enlightened once a day so if you cant get 1 cp a day thats not our problem it requires literally 10 mins of gameplay to grind out a cp lvl if its enlightened a reasonable cap so we all would feel like it is character progression would be 25-30 cp a month we would eventually catch up to the people with high numbers and they would stay around the same number cuz its harder for them to earn makes perfect sense but if you wait 6 months to 1 year to raise the cap its gonna kill it or put us back in the same position were in right now which makes no sense monthly cap raises makes most sense not 6 month to 1 year at 300-400 cp no... makes no sense... then we have to do the same exact grind literally everyone though thats behind this time and i personaly know people with over 1500 so this wont effect them but if we did a monthly 25-50 cp us peeps that were behind could eventually 1 month be caught up to the people at 1500+ but idk if that will be possible for anyone with this in effect good idea with the cp system bad setup i agree the cap could be a lil higher than 501 but we dont really know what can happen till they announce how often and how much these cp cap increases will be maybe 50 cp a month is a lil high but if its a cap they make the exp lower to get cp instead of higher if its a catch up mechanic and its only harder for people ahead of the cp cap thats the only people it should be harder for is the people ahead of the cp cap period
and at the same time it would keep us all on the same level of game play and it would truly come down to how skillful the player is :P
Or, they could use this formula instead:

XP Cost for next CP=MIN(400000,400000/(CAP/(NEXT CP^(NEXT CP/CAP))))

Which solves all the problems people seem to be concerned about (see my previous posts), regardless of what they make the cap.

With this formula, it always keeps players within 30 1,000,000 xp play sessions to get within 70-80% of the cap, and never costs more than 400,000 xp per cp.

This is how a catch-up should work.
again, my issue isn't the equations proposed. its the environment they are being put into. the game environment doesn't provide the means to support these equations (as i have pointed out in a previous post, that i linked at the bottom). this will not provide a means of catch up in ESO. it does in rift, but rift is a whole different game, in just about every respect with regard to experience gains.

ultimately this is an irrelevant change (still allows for a large gap), that potentially impacts the game negatively in the form of financial gain. the hard cap produces an environment where people that would otherwise continue paying won't benefit- so naturally players will stop paying. the environment still requires some paying but much lesser than the current live. so sustained income is greatly diminished by these equations. this forces a small sustained income bracket, requiring a larger burst income bracket (which is how B2P/F2P operates). it also won't provide much catching up, in an environment that doesn't provide the content needed to just progress "naturally" from a more casual players point of view. it still requires them to grind to be proficient, because the quests are too low yield for the champion system to progress for them. but even if my estimates are wrong, its irrelevant... whats the point of having 501CPs with you're facing 501CPs with end-game gold gear, and you can barely get out of the VR14/VR15 <color> gear. a modest "rarity" component is okay, with the current CP system, because you can offset short-falls with that system freely. besides, right now 400 hours of gear grinding equates to 400 hours in the champion system, so ill gladly mob grind (mob drops for deconstruction) AND node farm as i do now on live. making tradeskill items substantially rare, and locking players at caps, diminishes return and thus satisfaction of working towards end-game gear.

im also 100% for a CP locked server in pvp. their request is not unreasonable from this PVE'ers point of view....

in the current form, an equation essentially applies a rule to a human, in an inadequate environment for success: see link for my argument.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2345892/#Comment_2345892

this was why my proposal is what it is (modify current content to achieve a result), at the bottom of the comment i posted here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2342834/#Comment_2342834
I will have to disagree with you. Games are programs, which ultimately use logic and mathematics to operate. And yes, @Atarax is right. I would like ZOS to use the equation he provided. The problem is that we need a drastic measure of providing catch up to new players and recently new players. It is about equations in this game. That's how exp is calculated, how damage is calculated. This whole damn game is about formulas. You're only kidding yourself if you don't think so.
well your lack of reading is your flaw... i didn't say anything about ALL formulas and in fact focused squarely on this one aspect of the game with regards to an "equation", which this thread is all about. in fact, i said its a great equation, just not one that fits in the ESO environment. you're just assuming and injecting context that isn't there. i will also point out that after looking at the numbers presented, the player's complaints for and against the cap/catch up, applying the equations to the the actual return for the player and its intended function, i pointed out that this ONE equation will not fix the problem (as many others have pointed out.). being a theory-crafter, i laugh at the notion that you would even put such an accusation out lol.uh..... duh its just one big, glorified calculator....

also, if you bothered to read my postings, you would see that im not against an actual, intelligently designed catch-up. i even presented an alternative route (i even included my proposal which i assume you didn't read also), to help not only "new players" (which i consider a joke of an argument) but more specifically casual players, without hindering/disregarding consistent players.

R U still posting here? I wish I had your free time.

jbcrocks · October 2015

Will the XP be evenly distributed for the next Cp cap? Is so, those with 100 cp now will have about 250 cp and those with 2600 will have 1200 cp. At about 703 cp, the XP earned will be the same next patch.

Atarax · October 2015

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Atarax wrote: »
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

@Ezareth there modified it, it still doesn't change anything. they are gonna chop the head off the snake...

I just think this is going to be one of those things where everyone is going to have to try the system out before commenting further. We've all pretty much said our piece. I think we can all agree the system as it exists now is preferable to the one that exists on live.

agreed, id roll with it if it was a soft cap at 501 with catch up in mind, but the hard cap pretty well does it for me. im a progressor, so this combined with the huge gear grind.... yeah for got it.
Mcnick wrote: »
Mcnick wrote: »
Paulington wrote: »
Hey all.

Myself and @Zinaroth have been discussing this system and whilst we have differing opinions on whether or not there should be a hard cap in the system we believe we have come up with two viable systems.

I will let @Zinaroth explain his system in the post he makes so I will focus on mine here.
XP Required = 100,000 + [CP Rank * (300,000/CP CAP)]
My suggestion is that the CP at the cap takes 400,000 XP to earn and everything prior to that takes <400,000 XP down to a base of 100,000 XP for CP Rank 1.

My first example is that with Orsinium the cap be set to 600 CP instead of the current 501, this means in 2.2 the graph of XP required vs. CP would look like this:

Once you hit the cap of 600 it levels out and each CP over the cap requires 400k XP. This means that those people who continue playing will feel like they are progressing their character still and not having to earn millions of XP for ever infinitesimal gains. We have to remember that it is ultimately irrelevant if someone has 2,000 CP over the cap because they can only spend the cap so why artificially limit their CP gain rate? This game is "play your way", so if they want to grind CP before the cap so they can "cap out" as soon as it is raised, why not?

Now, we have a cap of 600 with Orsinium release, when and how is the cap raised? We all know we dislike not knowing when things will happen and like to plan ahead, so my suggestion is a biannual CP cap raise on pre-determined dates. The cap would raise by 375 CP twice a year.

Of course if this rate of cap increase is too slow it could be modified, but I think 750 CP per year is a solid rate of cap increase based upon the expected life cycle of this game at release.

Now the important part is that when the cap is raised, the XP required for the CP below the cap changes also. Here is a comparison graph for the cap at 600 and the first cap raise to 975.

As you can see, it becomes easier to gain the first CP Ranks and "catch up" to those at the cap as time goes on. This means that even if you start playing ESO when the cap is 2,100 you can with effort catch up to those at the cap.

With this system, enlightenment would remain unchanged at 400,000 XP per day. This means people with low CP will get more CP per day than those at the cap if they only use their enlightenment each day.

DISCLAIMER: I've yet to fully flesh this out and may have made a mistake or two throwing it together. I don't claim that this is THE solution but I believe it is better than the current solution. I would be open to a combination of my system and @Zinaroth's system where CP get more expensive after the cap but it doesn't go above 400k XP per CP prior to the current cap. I'm just looking for input and advice on this.

Thanks to @Zinaroth for helping me out here!
ya except increasing the cap 2 times a year at ur rate would just ruin the game and put us back in the position were in.. do it montly at like 25-50 cp at a time that is very reasonable thats 1-2 cp a day that isnt hard for anyone at all imo especially cuz you get enlightened once a day so if you cant get 1 cp a day thats not our problem it requires literally 10 mins of gameplay to grind out a cp lvl if its enlightened a reasonable cap so we all would feel like it is character progression would be 25-30 cp a month we would eventually catch up to the people with high numbers and they would stay around the same number cuz its harder for them to earn makes perfect sense but if you wait 6 months to 1 year to raise the cap its gonna kill it or put us back in the same position were in right now which makes no sense monthly cap raises makes most sense not 6 month to 1 year at 300-400 cp no... makes no sense... then we have to do the same exact grind literally everyone though thats behind this time and i personaly know people with over 1500 so this wont effect them but if we did a monthly 25-50 cp us peeps that were behind could eventually 1 month be caught up to the people at 1500+ but idk if that will be possible for anyone with this in effect good idea with the cp system bad setup i agree the cap could be a lil higher than 501 but we dont really know what can happen till they announce how often and how much these cp cap increases will be maybe 50 cp a month is a lil high but if its a cap they make the exp lower to get cp instead of higher if its a catch up mechanic and its only harder for people ahead of the cp cap thats the only people it should be harder for is the people ahead of the cp cap period
and at the same time it would keep us all on the same level of game play and it would truly come down to how skillful the player is :P
Or, they could use this formula instead:

XP Cost for next CP=MIN(400000,400000/(CAP/(NEXT CP^(NEXT CP/CAP))))

Which solves all the problems people seem to be concerned about (see my previous posts), regardless of what they make the cap.

With this formula, it always keeps players within 30 1,000,000 xp play sessions to get within 70-80% of the cap, and never costs more than 400,000 xp per cp.

This is how a catch-up should work.
again, my issue isn't the equations proposed. its the environment they are being put into. the game environment doesn't provide the means to support these equations (as i have pointed out in a previous post, that i linked at the bottom). this will not provide a means of catch up in ESO. it does in rift, but rift is a whole different game, in just about every respect with regard to experience gains.

ultimately this is an irrelevant change (still allows for a large gap), that potentially impacts the game negatively in the form of financial gain. the hard cap produces an environment where people that would otherwise continue paying won't benefit- so naturally players will stop paying. the environment still requires some paying but much lesser than the current live. so sustained income is greatly diminished by these equations. this forces a small sustained income bracket, requiring a larger burst income bracket (which is how B2P/F2P operates). it also won't provide much catching up, in an environment that doesn't provide the content needed to just progress "naturally" from a more casual players point of view. it still requires them to grind to be proficient, because the quests are too low yield for the champion system to progress for them. but even if my estimates are wrong, its irrelevant... whats the point of having 501CPs with you're facing 501CPs with end-game gold gear, and you can barely get out of the VR14/VR15 <color> gear. a modest "rarity" component is okay, with the current CP system, because you can offset short-falls with that system freely. besides, right now 400 hours of gear grinding equates to 400 hours in the champion system, so ill gladly mob grind (mob drops for deconstruction) AND node farm as i do now on live. making tradeskill items substantially rare, and locking players at caps, diminishes return and thus satisfaction of working towards end-game gear.

im also 100% for a CP locked server in pvp. their request is not unreasonable from this PVE'ers point of view....

in the current form, an equation essentially applies a rule to a human, in an inadequate environment for success: see link for my argument.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2345892/#Comment_2345892

this was why my proposal is what it is (modify current content to achieve a result), at the bottom of the comment i posted here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2342834/#Comment_2342834

I think you didn't think through how the formula I proposed actually works. You may want to read my previous posts on the topic, where I explain exactly how it works.... aaaannnnd it fixes the problems you're talking about.

Getting 1million exp a play session is totally doable for a casual. And no matter what the cap is, my formula gets you within 70% of the cap within 30 such play sessions. It also doesn't penalize those over the cap.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO · October 2015

Atarax wrote: »
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Atarax wrote: »
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

@Ezareth there modified it, it still doesn't change anything. they are gonna chop the head off the snake...

I just think this is going to be one of those things where everyone is going to have to try the system out before commenting further. We've all pretty much said our piece. I think we can all agree the system as it exists now is preferable to the one that exists on live.

agreed, id roll with it if it was a soft cap at 501 with catch up in mind, but the hard cap pretty well does it for me. im a progressor, so this combined with the huge gear grind.... yeah for got it.
Mcnick wrote: »
Mcnick wrote: »
Paulington wrote: »
Hey all.

Myself and @Zinaroth have been discussing this system and whilst we have differing opinions on whether or not there should be a hard cap in the system we believe we have come up with two viable systems.

I will let @Zinaroth explain his system in the post he makes so I will focus on mine here.
XP Required = 100,000 + [CP Rank * (300,000/CP CAP)]
My suggestion is that the CP at the cap takes 400,000 XP to earn and everything prior to that takes <400,000 XP down to a base of 100,000 XP for CP Rank 1.

My first example is that with Orsinium the cap be set to 600 CP instead of the current 501, this means in 2.2 the graph of XP required vs. CP would look like this:

Once you hit the cap of 600 it levels out and each CP over the cap requires 400k XP. This means that those people who continue playing will feel like they are progressing their character still and not having to earn millions of XP for ever infinitesimal gains. We have to remember that it is ultimately irrelevant if someone has 2,000 CP over the cap because they can only spend the cap so why artificially limit their CP gain rate? This game is "play your way", so if they want to grind CP before the cap so they can "cap out" as soon as it is raised, why not?

Now, we have a cap of 600 with Orsinium release, when and how is the cap raised? We all know we dislike not knowing when things will happen and like to plan ahead, so my suggestion is a biannual CP cap raise on pre-determined dates. The cap would raise by 375 CP twice a year.

Of course if this rate of cap increase is too slow it could be modified, but I think 750 CP per year is a solid rate of cap increase based upon the expected life cycle of this game at release.

Now the important part is that when the cap is raised, the XP required for the CP below the cap changes also. Here is a comparison graph for the cap at 600 and the first cap raise to 975.

As you can see, it becomes easier to gain the first CP Ranks and "catch up" to those at the cap as time goes on. This means that even if you start playing ESO when the cap is 2,100 you can with effort catch up to those at the cap.

With this system, enlightenment would remain unchanged at 400,000 XP per day. This means people with low CP will get more CP per day than those at the cap if they only use their enlightenment each day.

DISCLAIMER: I've yet to fully flesh this out and may have made a mistake or two throwing it together. I don't claim that this is THE solution but I believe it is better than the current solution. I would be open to a combination of my system and @Zinaroth's system where CP get more expensive after the cap but it doesn't go above 400k XP per CP prior to the current cap. I'm just looking for input and advice on this.

Thanks to @Zinaroth for helping me out here!
ya except increasing the cap 2 times a year at ur rate would just ruin the game and put us back in the position were in.. do it montly at like 25-50 cp at a time that is very reasonable thats 1-2 cp a day that isnt hard for anyone at all imo especially cuz you get enlightened once a day so if you cant get 1 cp a day thats not our problem it requires literally 10 mins of gameplay to grind out a cp lvl if its enlightened a reasonable cap so we all would feel like it is character progression would be 25-30 cp a month we would eventually catch up to the people with high numbers and they would stay around the same number cuz its harder for them to earn makes perfect sense but if you wait 6 months to 1 year to raise the cap its gonna kill it or put us back in the same position were in right now which makes no sense monthly cap raises makes most sense not 6 month to 1 year at 300-400 cp no... makes no sense... then we have to do the same exact grind literally everyone though thats behind this time and i personaly know people with over 1500 so this wont effect them but if we did a monthly 25-50 cp us peeps that were behind could eventually 1 month be caught up to the people at 1500+ but idk if that will be possible for anyone with this in effect good idea with the cp system bad setup i agree the cap could be a lil higher than 501 but we dont really know what can happen till they announce how often and how much these cp cap increases will be maybe 50 cp a month is a lil high but if its a cap they make the exp lower to get cp instead of higher if its a catch up mechanic and its only harder for people ahead of the cp cap thats the only people it should be harder for is the people ahead of the cp cap period
and at the same time it would keep us all on the same level of game play and it would truly come down to how skillful the player is :P
Or, they could use this formula instead:

XP Cost for next CP=MIN(400000,400000/(CAP/(NEXT CP^(NEXT CP/CAP))))

Which solves all the problems people seem to be concerned about (see my previous posts), regardless of what they make the cap.

With this formula, it always keeps players within 30 1,000,000 xp play sessions to get within 70-80% of the cap, and never costs more than 400,000 xp per cp.

This is how a catch-up should work.
again, my issue isn't the equations proposed. its the environment they are being put into. the game environment doesn't provide the means to support these equations (as i have pointed out in a previous post, that i linked at the bottom). this will not provide a means of catch up in ESO. it does in rift, but rift is a whole different game, in just about every respect with regard to experience gains.

ultimately this is an irrelevant change (still allows for a large gap), that potentially impacts the game negatively in the form of financial gain. the hard cap produces an environment where people that would otherwise continue paying won't benefit- so naturally players will stop paying. the environment still requires some paying but much lesser than the current live. so sustained income is greatly diminished by these equations. this forces a small sustained income bracket, requiring a larger burst income bracket (which is how B2P/F2P operates). it also won't provide much catching up, in an environment that doesn't provide the content needed to just progress "naturally" from a more casual players point of view. it still requires them to grind to be proficient, because the quests are too low yield for the champion system to progress for them. but even if my estimates are wrong, its irrelevant... whats the point of having 501CPs with you're facing 501CPs with end-game gold gear, and you can barely get out of the VR14/VR15 <color> gear. a modest "rarity" component is okay, with the current CP system, because you can offset short-falls with that system freely. besides, right now 400 hours of gear grinding equates to 400 hours in the champion system, so ill gladly mob grind (mob drops for deconstruction) AND node farm as i do now on live. making tradeskill items substantially rare, and locking players at caps, diminishes return and thus satisfaction of working towards end-game gear.

im also 100% for a CP locked server in pvp. their request is not unreasonable from this PVE'ers point of view....

in the current form, an equation essentially applies a rule to a human, in an inadequate environment for success: see link for my argument.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2345892/#Comment_2345892

this was why my proposal is what it is (modify current content to achieve a result), at the bottom of the comment i posted here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2342834/#Comment_2342834
I think you didn't think through how the formula I proposed actually works. You may want to read my previous posts on the topic, where I explain exactly how it works.... aaaannnnd it fixes the problems you're talking about.

Getting 1million exp a play session is totally doable for a casual. And no matter what the cap is, my formula gets you within 70% of the cap within 30 such play sessions. It also doesn't penalize those over the cap.

reread this:

again, my issue isn't the equations proposed. its the environment they are being put into. the game environment doesn't provide the means to support these equations (as i have pointed out in a previous post, that i linked at the bottom). this will not provide a means of catch up in ESO. it does in rift, but rift is a whole different game, in just about every respect with regard to experience gains.

the statement i put in bold from your reply is why i don't think the equations will help. people can't get the 400k, they won't be better off when its above or slightly below that.

the players have all come up with better alternatives than the current, im not taking that credit from the players with that regard, just pointing out, that gold/silver will get ya to VR10, craglorn will get ya to VR14, and orsinium should get ya to VR16. players don't like VRs, they don't want to do any/a lot grinding, so i figured if that is the "casuals" perspective, adjust the current game content so that it caters to those individuals, without hindering the progress of others.

ultimately whos gonna be right will be told over time. i just really don't think the one ZoS intends to use is the "best" one...

Zinaroth · October 2015

Guys please tidy up your messages a bit. I am getting tagged constantly because I was tagged in the original post which is now a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote...

You get the picture.

Thanks!

OrphanHelgen · October 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

Guys please tidy up your messages a bit. I am getting tagged constantly because I was tagged in the original post which is now a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote...

You get the picture.

Thanks!

@Zinaroth

Lucky28 · October 2015

Geemarc wrote: »

One good thing with this change is once you hit 501 champion points there will be no need to buy anymore experience scrolls.

No one is going to intentionally grind points at 1.5x multiplier. Personally I don't think champion points should ever require more than 400k experience.

It seems with every major patch ZOS' main objective is to make me not spend money on the game. i mean seriously. 2.1 put a quick end to any thoughts i had about subbing and the CP cap put to bed any thoughts i had about buying the adventurer pack because i don't see any reason to start a new character.....

A CP cap early on at the introduction of the Champion system would have been decent, ship sailed tho.

Kronuxx · October 2015

Lucky28 wrote: »

Geemarc wrote: »

One good thing with this change is once you hit 501 champion points there will be no need to buy anymore experience scrolls.

No one is going to intentionally grind points at 1.5x multiplier. Personally I don't think champion points should ever require more than 400k experience.

It seems with every major patch ZOS' main objective is to make me not spend money on the game. i mean seriously. 2.1 put a quick end to any thoughts i had about subbing and the CP cap put to bed any thoughts i had about buying the adventurer pack because i don't see any reason to start a new character.....

A CP cap early on at the introduction of the Champion system would have been decent, ship sailed tho.

You're right that they should have put a cap at the begininng. They've waited too long for the CP system to get out of hand (Seems rather common with ZOS). At this point though, no use in crying over spilled milk. Not much we can do about it now. I rather they put in a cap than no cap. I want this game to succeed, and in order to do that it needs to be enticing for new players, so that they don't look at this game and see such a daunting task of being competitive. This will ultimately drive away all the new players, and what's the point of a MMO if you don't have many people in it to play with or interact? Yes yes, I know. The old players may leave because of the cap, but you know what? Out with the old and in with the new as they say. I just hope that their system doesn't end up turning away both new and old players alike. Otherwise they really will have dug themselves a hole too deep to get out of.

Lucky28 · October 2015

Kronuxx wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Geemarc wrote: »

One good thing with this change is once you hit 501 champion points there will be no need to buy anymore experience scrolls.

No one is going to intentionally grind points at 1.5x multiplier. Personally I don't think champion points should ever require more than 400k experience.

It seems with every major patch ZOS' main objective is to make me not spend money on the game. i mean seriously. 2.1 put a quick end to any thoughts i had about subbing and the CP cap put to bed any thoughts i had about buying the adventurer pack because i don't see any reason to start a new character.....

A CP cap early on at the introduction of the Champion system would have been decent, ship sailed tho.

You're right that they should have put a cap at the begininng. They've waited too long for the CP system to get out of hand (Seems rather common with ZOS). At this point though, no use in crying over spilled milk. Not much we can do about it now. I rather they put in a cap than no cap. I want this game to succeed, and in order to do that it needs to be enticing for new players, so that they don't look at this game and see such a daunting task of being competitive. This will ultimately drive away all the new players, and what's the point of a MMO if you don't have many people in it to play with or interact? Yes yes, I know. The old players may leave because of the cap, but you know what? Out with the old and in with the new as they say. I just hope that their system doesn't end up turning away both new and old players alike. Otherwise they really will have dug themselves a hole too deep to get out of.

It was too late for the CP cap and odds are it's gonna be harmful for old and new players. this last patch and the new one that introduces the CP cap, makes it so this game is not a safe investment, the cap screws people who are above the cap and new players who see that are gonna think: what if some time down the line i get screwed out of my time and money in much the same fashion?. the cap, for this reason is not good.

Kronuxx · October 2015

Lucky28 wrote: »

Kronuxx wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Geemarc wrote: »

One good thing with this change is once you hit 501 champion points there will be no need to buy anymore experience scrolls.

No one is going to intentionally grind points at 1.5x multiplier. Personally I don't think champion points should ever require more than 400k experience.

It seems with every major patch ZOS' main objective is to make me not spend money on the game. i mean seriously. 2.1 put a quick end to any thoughts i had about subbing and the CP cap put to bed any thoughts i had about buying the adventurer pack because i don't see any reason to start a new character.....

A CP cap early on at the introduction of the Champion system would have been decent, ship sailed tho.

You're right that they should have put a cap at the begininng. They've waited too long for the CP system to get out of hand (Seems rather common with ZOS). At this point though, no use in crying over spilled milk. Not much we can do about it now. I rather they put in a cap than no cap. I want this game to succeed, and in order to do that it needs to be enticing for new players, so that they don't look at this game and see such a daunting task of being competitive. This will ultimately drive away all the new players, and what's the point of a MMO if you don't have many people in it to play with or interact? Yes yes, I know. The old players may leave because of the cap, but you know what? Out with the old and in with the new as they say. I just hope that their system doesn't end up turning away both new and old players alike. Otherwise they really will have dug themselves a hole too deep to get out of.

It was too late for the CP cap and odds are it's gonna be harmful for old and new players. this last patch and the new one that introduces the CP cap, makes it so this game is not a safe investment, the cap screws people who are above the cap and new players who see that are gonna think: what if some time down the line i get screwed out of my time and money in much the same fashion?. the cap, for this reason is not good.

I don't believe so. The reason why is because those well under the cap (primarily new players) will never reach it by the time the patch rolls around, and it's unlikely they will go out of their way to reach it by the time a new cap is put in place thereafter. That's one. Two, those who are close, let's say in the high 300's or higher, I believe the cap will promote those players to slow down (rather than grinding at X place for hours on end to get Y exp as fast as you can, and yes we know you types are out there) and seek other avenues in the game to pursue. So over all, the cap is still a good investment for the new players, just not for the older players who grind away at X spot to accumulate as many CP as they can (and they are out there, I've seen them).

I think the cap is a good idea, it's just a matter of whether or not going beyond the cap should be penalized further in terms of exp. The more I think about it, perhaps it may be a good idea, but it's hard to say at this point. One thing is for sure. This system will be released and adjustments are going to have to be made further down the line based on the majority reaction of players, and when I mean reaction, I mean game-time reaction playing. As in how do the majority of players spend their time getting exp, now that the cap and formula is in place. It should not be judged by the reactions on the forums, since those who whine are usually (not always though) the most vocal. And this aforemention example is not a good example of the population majority.

AlnilamE · October 2015

@Kronuxx I think there are many arguments against an XP penalty above the cap, starting with the fact that a subscription gives you a 10% XP boost (which will be essentially nullified if you are above the cap) and that ZOS sells XP scrolls in the Crown Store (which right now would just normalize XP gain if you are above the cap, so rather than paying to get more XP, you are paying to have the penalty removed).

Another is the fact that there are many XP sources that will only give XP once, like discoveries and quests, and if you are above the cap, you will never recoup that 1/3 XP that you didn't get. I think this discourages people from playing non-repeatable content if they are above the cap.

I'm ok with the cap and I like the catch-up formula. It will never put every player at the cap, but it will certainly allow new players to amass a good number of CP quickly so they can be competitive, and if they really want to put in the effort, they will reach the cap.

I also want to speak to the notion that people with a fair amount of CP are grinders. I just hit 330 CP yesterday. I play a lot, but I don't always do stuff that gives a lot of XP. I have alts that are not VR, I do writs, I go to guild events I'm overleveled for. Since the system came out, I've essentially been able to stay just ahead of my enlightenment and earn a few extra CP. I'm sure there are many others in the same boat. We just play the game as we feel like and CP comes naturally. And when I first read about the fact that CP would cost more than 400k xp after the "soft cap" and then have a 3x penalty after the real cap, I felt discouraged from playing for the first time since launch.

I think that if the catch up formula is in place until the point where CP cost 400k XP again and then it flattens out there, whether you are below or above the hard cap, that would be ok. I'd be surprised if anyone who is currently above the cap spent time grinding for CP that they can't yet use. And even if they did, what would be the problem?

I just checked that my subscription ends just after Orsinium comes out. I am thinking long and hard about whether I want to renew it or not.

LGG11 · October 2015

well now im sad with this patch catch up system.... I know now I will never have anywhere near as much cp as anyone else who has been around for a while (just started getting cp) and i am at a permanent disadvantage thanks z masters. Going to take to long for cp almost not worth it and i play 24-7 and still to long I grind all day....

Enodoc · October 2015

LGG11 wrote: »

well now im sad with this patch catch up system.... I know now I will never have anywhere near as much cp as anyone else who has been around for a while (just started getting cp) and i am at a permanent disadvantage thanks z masters. Going to take to long for cp almost not worth it and i play 24-7 and still to long I grind all day....

@LGG11 Why do you say that? There's a considerable reduction to the amount of XP needed to get CPs up to around 440, and anyone who's over the cap of 501 will have further CP gain slowed down. You should be catching up in no time.

Ravenfrost · October 2015

@ZOS
501 is too low with a system that requires you to earn a crazy amount more EXP per CP after 501. This system is flawed. if you are going to leave it this way, it should be 600-750 minimum for the cap OR you should remove the crazy requirements after 501. I expected some increase but not 550 CP taking 1.6mil~ exp for 1 cp...You are hand holding and GIVING everyone else CP that we worked very hard for.

Sorry, this is not how to keep you veteran players interested. We will have 0 progression once this new patch comes out. Looks like I will also be unsubscribing because whats the point in the EXP gain from sub if I can't gain CP at a reasonable rate...

You need to remove the ridiculous requirements after the cap because I already can't use them since I am already at CAP. What is the point of doing any new quests or any PVE. I will now wait 3 months to increase the cap so I can get my CP out of doing the new quests. Maybe I should just play a different game the next 3 months since I won't get any progression or rewards from my work starting with the new patch next week.

I understand the need to balance the system, but a CAP and catch up, not a slow down system, would do that. You need to adjust your formula OR increase the cap and stop screwing veteran players.

Lucky28 · October 2015

Kronuxx wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Kronuxx wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Geemarc wrote: »

One good thing with this change is once you hit 501 champion points there will be no need to buy anymore experience scrolls.

No one is going to intentionally grind points at 1.5x multiplier. Personally I don't think champion points should ever require more than 400k experience.

It seems with every major patch ZOS' main objective is to make me not spend money on the game. i mean seriously. 2.1 put a quick end to any thoughts i had about subbing and the CP cap put to bed any thoughts i had about buying the adventurer pack because i don't see any reason to start a new character.....

A CP cap early on at the introduction of the Champion system would have been decent, ship sailed tho.

You're right that they should have put a cap at the begininng. They've waited too long for the CP system to get out of hand (Seems rather common with ZOS). At this point though, no use in crying over spilled milk. Not much we can do about it now. I rather they put in a cap than no cap. I want this game to succeed, and in order to do that it needs to be enticing for new players, so that they don't look at this game and see such a daunting task of being competitive. This will ultimately drive away all the new players, and what's the point of a MMO if you don't have many people in it to play with or interact? Yes yes, I know. The old players may leave because of the cap, but you know what? Out with the old and in with the new as they say. I just hope that their system doesn't end up turning away both new and old players alike. Otherwise they really will have dug themselves a hole too deep to get out of.

It was too late for the CP cap and odds are it's gonna be harmful for old and new players. this last patch and the new one that introduces the CP cap, makes it so this game is not a safe investment, the cap screws people who are above the cap and new players who see that are gonna think: what if some time down the line i get screwed out of my time and money in much the same fashion?. the cap, for this reason is not good.

I don't believe so. The reason why is because those well under the cap (primarily new players) will never reach it by the time the patch rolls around, and it's unlikely they will go out of their way to reach it by the time a new cap is put in place thereafter. That's one. Two, those who are close, let's say in the high 300's or higher, I believe the cap will promote those players to slow down (rather than grinding at X place for hours on end to get Y exp as fast as you can, and yes we know you types are out there) and seek other avenues in the game to pursue. So over all, the cap is still a good investment for the new players, just not for the older players who grind away at X spot to accumulate as many CP as they can (and they are out there, I've seen them).

I think the cap is a good idea, it's just a matter of whether or not going beyond the cap should be penalized further in terms of exp. The more I think about it, perhaps it may be a good idea, but it's hard to say at this point. One thing is for sure. This system will be released and adjustments are going to have to be made further down the line based on the majority reaction of players, and when I mean reaction, I mean game-time reaction playing. As in how do the majority of players spend their time getting exp, now that the cap and formula is in place. It should not be judged by the reactions on the forums, since those who whine are usually (not always though) the most vocal. And this aforemention example is not a good example of the population majority.

I disagree. because the way i see it, it's better to shelf the game until the CP cap is released, it's just more beneficial. you gain CP faster, don't have to worry about hitting the cap thus leading to stagnant gameplay.

as for exploring other area's of the game. I disagree with that as well. i mean i'm sick of dungeons, the RNG healm drops have pretty much exhausted my interest in them. Trials, don't scale and your not getting leveled gear (undaunted Dungeons suffer from the same with the exception of random loot and monster helms) . New DLC, If you're at the cap there is no point, you're losing XP.

again. It's just better to not play and maybe come back once the cap is released if you still have any interest.

Asia_Skyly · October 2015

Ravenfrost wrote: »

@ZOS
I understand the need to balance the system, but a CAP and catch up, not a slow down system, would do that. You need to adjust your formula OR increase the cap and stop screwing veteran players.

I am below the cap, but I totally agree. I do not understand why they need to punish those above the cap. There have been a ton of good solutions proposed here. We need a system to catch up, not a penalty for playing the game.

The cap should go up in small increments, perhaps monthly by a small number of points (60?). It should always have the same idea behind it, if below the cap, we will expedite you, if you are above the cap, you are going at a flat rate.

AlnilamE · October 2015

[quote="Ravenfrost;2394411
You need to remove the ridiculous requirements after the cap because I already can't use them since I am already at CAP. What is the point of doing any new quests or any PVE. I will now wait 3 months to increase the cap so I can get my CP out of doing the new quests. Maybe I should just play a different game the next 3 months since I won't get any progression or rewards from my work starting with the new patch next week.

I understand the need to balance the system, but a CAP and catch up, not a slow down system, would do that. You need to adjust your formula OR increase the cap and stop screwing veteran players.[/quote]

Thank you. I've been trying to convey this as well. It's going to be very demotivating to get to the cap. And it really shouldn't be. The game should make you *want* to progress.

silky_soft · October 2015

We got it reduced from 3x to 1.5x. They should never cost more than 400, but you know they just want to make money. I guess they see it as a way to sell items in the crown store and get subs. 50% from scrolls, 10% from mara, 10% from subs.

They are working off the thinking that there is people out there that are around cap that will pay to grind out to at least what it cost for a vet rank. Which is 647. These people are the kind of person who have money to burn and want to get a head start on the next cap.

For those people above 647 they will say, "Well you know it's the same cost as a VR now. I might as well make another toon." So they buy more scrolls to level up to vr and then to vr16 quicker. Because we all know VR are not going away.

The softcap is implemented the same way. It used to level up fast for those in the catchup range and now they want more. So they'll buy scrolls once they approach softcap to continue leveling at that rate.

TiberX · October 2015

My answer is simple, i just reached the cap, i wont grind an insane amount of xp for CP if i dont even now when ill be able to spend it therefore ill unsubscribe. I also have 5500 crowns , they will last until next DLc.

Vaelen · October 2015

Calm down guys, it's all about socialism... a.k.a taking your hard working players' efforts and redistributing it to the casual players that are too lazy, err... except that it's also being redistributed to the very top players as well, so it must be called Elitist Socialism or Oligarchy Socialism, which is a perverted form of socialism and redistribution that is very prevalent in America today.

F7sus4 · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

This formula will not allow players who are extremely casual a chance to "catch up" to players who are hard core or extremely active.

If you're extremely casual, you don't need extreme amounts of Champion Points.

TiberX · November 2015

Vaelen wrote: »

Calm down guys, it's all about socialism... a.k.a taking your hard working players' efforts and redistributing it to the casual players that are too lazy, err... except that it's also being redistributed to the very top players as well, so it must be called Elitist Socialism or Oligarchy Socialism, which is a perverted form of socialism and redistribution that is very prevalent in America today.

True, sadly

PsychoKRATOS1 · November 2015

Wouldn't it be better to have a system, IF YOU HAD TO IMPLEMENT THIS ONE IN SOME WAY- to make any cp gain under 500 cheaper and once you hit 500 - making it normal base xp to earn cp?

But... I see why you've made it triple. So it takes longer to get a bigger foothold... but... For those who have almost got 500 cp. They won't benefit from this.

ettavolt · November 2015

Let me add some complexion non-linearity for you. (Plot shows a jump in exp required near cap threshold.) log(e)-scaled, if someone prefers.