Champion System Catch-up Mechanic

Hiero_Glyph

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

DDemon wrote: »

But, won't you, at one point in time, arrive at the same exact problem again? This change will only delay that, and punish the people with a lot of champion points.

This too, seems like a lazy way of handling this problem to me.

yes, @Hiero_Glyph a solid point that this equation is based around equal access and game play. its not going to work because of the human and the game environment. thats why i recommended modifying the experience gains through one time quests to help new players catch up. the top will always be the top, the middle will always be the middle, and the bottom will always be the bottom. there is a way to help the bottom with out hindering the top.

Yeah, you don't want everyone to end up in the middle, that would be so pointless. I agree that there are several ways to help players at the bottom reach a fair middle ground without making the middle the top and stopping the top entirely. A few adjustments to the curve could accomplish this as you could slow down advancement without artificially stopping it with a multiplier. Likewise, instead of just letting players ramp up instantly when hitting vr1 you could add secondary objectives or other things to help them reach a fair value over time. You do not want to give vr1 players 100 CP in a week, you just want to make it where they can reach ~300 CP with a moderate amount of effort (such as by completing Cadwell's silver/gold or playing in Cyrodiil every day for a couple months).

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

DDemon wrote: »

But, won't you, at one point in time, arrive at the same exact problem again? This change will only delay that, and punish the people with a lot of champion points.

This too, seems like a lazy way of handling this problem to me.

yes, @Hiero_Glyph a solid point that this equation is based around equal access and game play. its not going to work because of the human and the game environment. thats why i recommended modifying the experience gains through one time quests to help new players catch up. the top will always be the top, the middle will always be the middle, and the bottom will always be the bottom. there is a way to help the bottom with out hindering the top.

Yeah, you don't want everyone to end up in the middle, that would be so pointless. I agree that there are several ways to help players at the bottom reach a fair middle ground without making the middle the top and stopping the top entirely. A few adjustments to the curve could accomplish this as you could slow down advancement without artificially stopping it with a multiplier. Likewise, instead of just letting players ramp up instantly when hitting vr1 you could add secondary objectives or other things to help them reach a fair value over time. You do not want to give vr1 players 100 CP in a week, you just want to make it where they can reach ~300 CP with a moderate amount of effort (such as by completing Cadwell's silver/gold or playing in Cyrodiil every day for a couple months).

i completely agree, that's largely why i proposed adjusting content to give new/returning players a chance through one-time quests.

the ESO environment is not built for this EQ style of AA, the champion system is. the new equation is putting Rifts experience mechanics on top of EQ's AA system, and they are not designed to compliment each other.

the key difference from the three games is EQ is a mob-grind, Rift is a quest-grind, and ESO is in the middle. they need to provide the needed return via quests to compliment the grind portion of ESO. this equation won't work, because there is NOT enough content for it. people will still have to grind but for a lesser reward over time. players that couldn't keep up with enlightenment and 400k, will not do any better at 410+. its like the argument of "reduce the cap from 3600 to X", its not going to matter what the top cap is if no one has incentive to even get there. those above that cap have little incentive to keep playing as well. i couldn't careless about caps and power gaps, if it means that the only solution is going to cut income from the game and ultimately lead to its shut down.

***EQ uses a system similar to the current one on live. its based on a constant low experience requirement, that as the character levels so do the mobs, and the higher net return of experience on mobs per kill. the higher the level, the faster you gain AA from mob kills. with this proposed equation, the mob grind would become a great hindrance, and slow progression to a halt.

Rift follows the same concept as EQ with their system but they are more based around the quest grind as opposed to mob-grinds. they need to have this form of equation, since quests are plentiful and easily executed. they have a lot of low yield, easy to do repeatable quests. without this form of equation, they run the risk of progression being too fast.

ESO is a (poor) balance of both- it consists of storyline based quests, combined with side quests, low number of low yield repeatable quests, and a bit of grinding. the constant allows for more gains the higher the level the character is based on per mob kills (same fasHion that EQ operates), but provides little yield for those that choose to quest (same as Rift's quest grind). the overall effect is that grinding is much more viable, than most other means of progression.***

the system needs tweaks, and the block casting issue was their first failure to try and balance the system. if it was THAT dramatic they needed to adjust the entire game to it, then that is your first clue, there's a problem. but now that they balanced the game AROUND that system, they have must cater to that system.

adjust one-time quests to be the catch-up, and don't cap/change the experience requirement in the system, its too damn late and doesn't reflect the gaming environment ESO is based on....

current quests, are designed around VR progression, and they need to be updated to refect the champion system. this would also reduce the overall workload for VRs, which many currently also complain about. if it fixes two issues, without alienating the majority, that should be the first change because its the best change for business. the equation just produces gaps, and will kick the can down the road.

**note: i can edit this post to include my proposed quest experience/CP gain adjustments if needed, to compliment the current ESO environment, upon request**

Ezareth

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

The problem is that the CP gap exists for a reason and having equal playing time is simply not a practical condition. The CP gap exists because some players are simply playing more. While there are players that are far more efficient in how they farm CP, the vast majority with high CP just play the game a lot. That is why a catchup mechanic is needed but in truth, the multiplier is what would really allow players to catchup since all progress above cap becomes stagnant to a degree. The multiplier serves little purpose as long as the cap already exists other than to severely hamper players that have played the game the most. This is simply a bad design choice. What makes it worse is that if you allow high CP players to keep their CP according to the previous linear system they will have to wait even longer until they can progress with a cap in place. Again, it's just bad design.

The point is that the experience curve should be made to give players a longterm goal and also keep them interested in playing. The new system makes all experience gains above cap pretty much stagnant but also gives players with 1,000+ CP asolutely nothing to work towards until the cap is increased to that point (in late 2016?). If the curve had moderate increases so that anyone above 445 CP would need to earn over 400k then they would still be rewarded for playing but begin to slow down over time. Any other player behind them would experience the same slow down when they reached that point. The difference would be that when the curve is readjusted the low CP players would again be able to gain at a slightly faster rate but so would the higher CP plalyers, just slightly slower. Then again, if playing time is a factor there may not be that much difference. The result is that low CP players would increase CP according to their limited time, while high CP players would increase CP according to their increased playing time. No multiplier is needed, just a curve that favors the low CP players and keeps them competitive without ever letting them truly catch the high CP players unless they start to play more. Besides, the cap will regulate anyone with large amounts of CP. A multiplier above cap is artificial and the experience curve will keep everyone competitive while still keeping CP gains relative to time invested.

One last note is that if you let players keep their CP according to the linear system you are giving them very little to work towards in the future. If you rescale them, remove the multiplier for being above cap, and adjust the curve so that their gains are slowed the higher they get you will reward them for playing but also minimize their CP advantage from the linear system (isn't that the entire point?). A player with 1,000 CP would still have a lot of CP, just be rescaled to ~700 (just a guess) and have to earn CP at well over 400k each. This may seem like a negative but it is far better than keeping 1,000 CP and basically just waiting for the cap to increase enough to allow them to have something to work towards again.

EDIT: Sorry, long post, I know. Having all players with equal CP is horrible for the game! You want CP discrepancy otherwise why have the system in place at all? You might as well just give all players X CP and let them customize their builds (which really means maximizing damage and sustain/regen).

The reality is, most of the players above the cap played a ton and/or grinded for the past 7 months to get where they are. These players will continue to be the kind of players who are the most powerful players from a stat and itemization standpoint...and they should be. The Cap just keeps that power from becoming too great. "Rescaling" those players is basically lying to the player. They were told they would earn 1 champion point for every 400K experience they earned and they played and invested their time earning those CPs with that in mind. "Rescaling" would take that time spent and take away a large portion of it that had they been aware of it would have meant for many of them they never would have played or ground as much.

This is very different than changing the formula for all *future* CPs earned. Players would be well aware of how much earning a CP point cost them and would modify their behavior accordingly. The fact that these players are no longer going to get a sense of progression until the cap passess them for awhile is a condition of their willingness to spend too much time grinding/playing in order to make themselves an order of magnitude more powerful than anyone else. What you are suggesting would do the very opposite of you're arguing for. No multiplier means these players will *never* be below the seasonal cap.

The current design will push both ends of the CP spectrum towards the softcap but there will still be great variation in CPs between players.

I've said many times that I think the CP cap at 501 is too low and that it instead should be at 600 or 700 but that belief doesn't invalidate the long term design of the formula they used.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

The problem is that the CP gap exists for a reason and having equal playing time is simply not a practical condition. The CP gap exists because some players are simply playing more. While there are players that are far more efficient in how they farm CP, the vast majority with high CP just play the game a lot. That is why a catchup mechanic is needed but in truth, the multiplier is what would really allow players to catchup since all progress above cap becomes stagnant to a degree. The multiplier serves little purpose as long as the cap already exists other than to severely hamper players that have played the game the most. This is simply a bad design choice. What makes it worse is that if you allow high CP players to keep their CP according to the previous linear system they will have to wait even longer until they can progress with a cap in place. Again, it's just bad design.

The point is that the experience curve should be made to give players a longterm goal and also keep them interested in playing. The new system makes all experience gains above cap pretty much stagnant but also gives players with 1,000+ CP asolutely nothing to work towards until the cap is increased to that point (in late 2016?). If the curve had moderate increases so that anyone above 445 CP would need to earn over 400k then they would still be rewarded for playing but begin to slow down over time. Any other player behind them would experience the same slow down when they reached that point. The difference would be that when the curve is readjusted the low CP players would again be able to gain at a slightly faster rate but so would the higher CP plalyers, just slightly slower. Then again, if playing time is a factor there may not be that much difference. The result is that low CP players would increase CP according to their limited time, while high CP players would increase CP according to their increased playing time. No multiplier is needed, just a curve that favors the low CP players and keeps them competitive without ever letting them truly catch the high CP players unless they start to play more. Besides, the cap will regulate anyone with large amounts of CP. A multiplier above cap is artificial and the experience curve will keep everyone competitive while still keeping CP gains relative to time invested.

One last note is that if you let players keep their CP according to the linear system you are giving them very little to work towards in the future. If you rescale them, remove the multiplier for being above cap, and adjust the curve so that their gains are slowed the higher they get you will reward them for playing but also minimize their CP advantage from the linear system (isn't that the entire point?). A player with 1,000 CP would still have a lot of CP, just be rescaled to ~700 (just a guess) and have to earn CP at well over 400k each. This may seem like a negative but it is far better than keeping 1,000 CP and basically just waiting for the cap to increase enough to allow them to have something to work towards again.

EDIT: Sorry, long post, I know. Having all players with equal CP is horrible for the game! You want CP discrepancy otherwise why have the system in place at all? You might as well just give all players X CP and let them customize their builds (which really means maximizing damage and sustain/regen).

The reality is, most of the players above the cap played a ton and/or grinded for the past 7 months to get where they are. These players will continue to be the kind of players who are the most powerful players from a stat and itemization standpoint...and they should be. The Cap just keeps that power from becoming too great. "Rescaling" those players is basically lying to the player. They were told they would earn 1 champion point for every 400K experience they earned and they played and invested their time earning those CPs with that in mind. "Rescaling" would take that time spent and take away a large portion of it that had they been aware of it would have meant for many of them they never would have played or ground as much.

This is very different than changing the formula for all *future* CPs earned. Players would be well aware of how much earning a CP point cost them and would modify their behavior accordingly. The fact that these players are no longer going to get a sense of progression until the cap passess them for awhile is a condition of their willingness to spend too much time grinding/playing in order to make themselves an order of magnitude more powerful than anyone else. What you are suggesting would do the very opposite of you're arguing for. No multiplier means these players will *never* be below the seasonal cap.

The current design will push both ends of the CP spectrum towards the softcap but there will still be great variation in CPs between players.

I've said many times that I think the CP cap at 501 is too low and that it instead should be at 600 or 700 but that belief doesn't invalidate the long term design of the formula they used.

while i agree with the theory, i see it as a failure in practice. if i go to play my Rift/EQ toon, ill still have to catch up. the difference is that those games are geared for success, based on their expected practices for success.

people that grind, grind;people that quest, quest; players that pvp, pvp. this really won't change ever.


-grinding can be first depending on the player/character for CP gains
-quests are second for CP gains
-dungeons can be set to third but subject to the reasons as grinding

the system needs to be built with opportunity for success, based on its experience offerings. making this equation with the imbalance of varying results, won't fix anything. ultimately, they must ensure they produce a game that has incentives to pay, and if they put this equation in, it will cater heavily to the "burst income" of the game, and reduce the sustained income from subs, experience scrolls/pots, or a combination of both. i don't see this game lasting based on burst income alone.

the weakest link in this game is the quest content- they can't even satisfy the VR issues and sure as hell do little now for the CP system. its by far the weakest overall for progress.

im really thinking that my proposal will better meet the 300 range effectively, with a diverse play-style. it can be updated over time with new DLC. with more CP opportunities as the game and the champion system ages.

Hiero_Glyph

Ezareth wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

The problem is that the CP gap exists for a reason and having equal playing time is simply not a practical condition. The CP gap exists because some players are simply playing more. While there are players that are far more efficient in how they farm CP, the vast majority with high CP just play the game a lot. That is why a catchup mechanic is needed but in truth, the multiplier is what would really allow players to catchup since all progress above cap becomes stagnant to a degree. The multiplier serves little purpose as long as the cap already exists other than to severely hamper players that have played the game the most. This is simply a bad design choice. What makes it worse is that if you allow high CP players to keep their CP according to the previous linear system they will have to wait even longer until they can progress with a cap in place. Again, it's just bad design.

The point is that the experience curve should be made to give players a longterm goal and also keep them interested in playing. The new system makes all experience gains above cap pretty much stagnant but also gives players with 1,000+ CP asolutely nothing to work towards until the cap is increased to that point (in late 2016?). If the curve had moderate increases so that anyone above 445 CP would need to earn over 400k then they would still be rewarded for playing but begin to slow down over time. Any other player behind them would experience the same slow down when they reached that point. The difference would be that when the curve is readjusted the low CP players would again be able to gain at a slightly faster rate but so would the higher CP plalyers, just slightly slower. Then again, if playing time is a factor there may not be that much difference. The result is that low CP players would increase CP according to their limited time, while high CP players would increase CP according to their increased playing time. No multiplier is needed, just a curve that favors the low CP players and keeps them competitive without ever letting them truly catch the high CP players unless they start to play more. Besides, the cap will regulate anyone with large amounts of CP. A multiplier above cap is artificial and the experience curve will keep everyone competitive while still keeping CP gains relative to time invested.

One last note is that if you let players keep their CP according to the linear system you are giving them very little to work towards in the future. If you rescale them, remove the multiplier for being above cap, and adjust the curve so that their gains are slowed the higher they get you will reward them for playing but also minimize their CP advantage from the linear system (isn't that the entire point?). A player with 1,000 CP would still have a lot of CP, just be rescaled to ~700 (just a guess) and have to earn CP at well over 400k each. This may seem like a negative but it is far better than keeping 1,000 CP and basically just waiting for the cap to increase enough to allow them to have something to work towards again.

EDIT: Sorry, long post, I know. Having all players with equal CP is horrible for the game! You want CP discrepancy otherwise why have the system in place at all? You might as well just give all players X CP and let them customize their builds (which really means maximizing damage and sustain/regen).

The reality is, most of the players above the cap played a ton and/or grinded for the past 7 months to get where they are. These players will continue to be the kind of players who are the most powerful players from a stat and itemization standpoint...and they should be. The Cap just keeps that power from becoming too great. "Rescaling" those players is basically lying to the player. They were told they would earn 1 champion point for every 400K experience they earned and they played and invested their time earning those CPs with that in mind. "Rescaling" would take that time spent and take away a large portion of it that had they been aware of it would have meant for many of them they never would have played or ground as much.

This is very different than changing the formula for all *future* CPs earned. Players would be well aware of how much earning a CP point cost them and would modify their behavior accordingly. The fact that these players are no longer going to get a sense of progression until the cap passess them for awhile is a condition of their willingness to spend too much time grinding/playing in order to make themselves an order of magnitude more powerful than anyone else. What you are suggesting would do the very opposite of you're arguing for. No multiplier means these players will *never* be below the seasonal cap.

The current design will push both ends of the CP spectrum towards the softcap but there will still be great variation in CPs between players.

I've said many times that I think the CP cap at 501 is too low and that it instead should be at 600 or 700 but that belief doesn't invalidate the long term design of the formula they used.

Let me clarify something. Currently 400k experience unlocks 1 CP. Each and every player in the game will have the same amount of CP experience currently as they have after the system changes. The only change would be the number of CP unlocked according to the new experience system. Players did not earn X CP, they used experience pots and ESO+ to grind experience from quests and mobs. They were never able to do anything other than earn experience to unlock CP. Once the amount of experience to unlock CP is changed so should the amount of CP, otherwise you create discrepancies where some players are penalized while other are rewarded.

Also, there was never any guarantee that mechanics within the game cannot change. It would be no different if you had a certain stamina and weapon damage to make a skill do X damage and it gets changed at some point. You are not entitled to always do X damage. It is just part of playing any MMO. Except in this case its not a nerf but a global change to correct a mistake in how CP were initially handled. Lastly, why would a player ever want to be below the cap if they have played the game way more than another player? They should remain at/above the cap at all times since they play the game so much. When the cap increases the instantly hit the new one; fair is fair.

Ezareth

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

-pvp is probably the best over all CP gain

That is not even remotely close to the truth. PvP is currently the worst CP gain per hour spent out of all activities that reward experience.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Let me clarify something. Currently 400k experience unlocks 1 CP. Each and every player in the game will have the same amount of CP experience currently as they have after the system changes. The only change would be the number of CP unlocked according to the new experience system. Players did not earn X CP, they used experience pots and ESO+ to grind experience from quests and mobs. They were never able to do anything other than earn experience to unlock CP. Once the amount of experience to unlock CP is changed so should the amount of CP, otherwise you create discrepancies where some players are penalized while other are rewarded.

Also, there was never any guarantee that mechanics within the game cannot change. It would be no different if you had a certain stamina and weapon damage to make a skill do X damage and it gets changed at some point. You are not entitled to always do X damage. It is just part of playing any MMO. Except in this case its not a nerf but a global change to correct a mistake in how CP were initially handled. Lastly, why would a player ever want to be below the cap if they have played the game way more than another player? They should remain at/above the cap at all times since they play the game so much. When the cap increases the instantly hit the new one; fair is fair.

The difference you're missing with your "scaling" suggestion is this.

Let's say we have two players and both *always* earn exactly the same experience per hour of play time (for the sake of clarity). Player A has 1000 CPs and spent 1000 hours of game time getting those CPs. Player B has 500 CPs and spent 500 hours of game time getting those CPs. Lets say over the course of the next 3 seasons, player B plays 500 hours more than Player A. Player B with exactly the same time spent playing will now be quite a bit ahead of Player A because even though they spent the same time playing (over time) player A was hit with a huge penalty because much of his playtime was "taxed" at the highest penalty rate possible while player B was taxed with a far lower penalty due to being closer to the cap for much of his playtime. It's just not a good or fair solution and it doesn't do anything other than screw over players with high CPs unnecessarily. They get *ZERO* advantage for having the CPs they have right now over the cap, the only benefit of this for them is they will no longer need to play the game as much for awhile to stay at the CP cap compared to players who are always trying to reach it.

Mcnick

silky_soft wrote: »

@Mcnick I'm 261cp and stand to benefit out of this. But I don't think the current formula is fair. We never asked for a penalty, just a cap and a reasonable way to catch up. We all thought there would be a cap between 600-800, not this low. We also thought that the catchup would just be a boost to enlightenment. Either by multiplying in tiers or permanent till a certain percentage of the cap, softcap. Both of these would require people to want CP and not hand it out for free.

But we got this instead


The first half of it up until the softcap is a great idea. Everything after is not so great. It rewards people now for grinding out as much xp as possible before the cap comes in. That trend of only being able to add 44cp for 500+ continues all the way. So investing time now will greatly benefit those people in the future.

There should be no penalty between soft and hard cap. Since they don't care about it costing us the same amount of xp per cp as it did the people over 2k. Keep the slight increase after hard cap till the next cap. Move the x3 from hard cap and place it at the next hard cap. This would allow for 'progression' for high cp earners, punish farmers/botters/exploiters who ruined it for everyone, a catch up for slower more casual players and not penalize the everyday players.

i totally agree with you 100% and especially on the part where their shouldnt be a penalty on the players who arent at 501 yet thats a big point cuz basically when your almosty half way to this cap its starts getting harder which i think i mean ill prob be at the 501 cap so i wont care but how is that fair to the people trying to get to 501? not fair at all imo idk there is alot wrong with the system the idea is good but how they put it into play is bad is all :P

Mcnick

silky_soft wrote: »

@Mcnick I'm 261cp and stand to benefit out of this. But I don't think the current formula is fair. We never asked for a penalty, just a cap and a reasonable way to catch up. We all thought there would be a cap between 600-800, not this low. We also thought that the catchup would just be a boost to enlightenment. Either by multiplying in tiers or permanent till a certain percentage of the cap, softcap. Both of these would require people to want CP and not hand it out for free.

But we got this instead


The first half of it up until the softcap is a great idea. Everything after is not so great. It rewards people now for grinding out as much xp as possible before the cap comes in. That trend of only being able to add 44cp for 500+ continues all the way. So investing time now will greatly benefit those people in the future.

There should be no penalty between soft and hard cap. Since they don't care about it costing us the same amount of xp per cp as it did the people over 2k. Keep the slight increase after hard cap till the next cap. Move the x3 from hard cap and place it at the next hard cap. This would allow for 'progression' for high cp earners, punish farmers/botters/exploiters who ruined it for everyone, a catch up for slower more casual players and not penalize the everyday players.

i mean it doesnt double until the 501 or go over double until then but still eventually once youve gotten to the 501 cap you arent gonna be progressing either catching up to the peeps with more than 501 it will never happen ever lol so its kinda bull that theres any increase before the 501 cap if anything it should be less than 400k for everything lower than 501 if its supposed to catch people up and then it should be like double or triple to make sure those people arent like ok im gonna go grind crazy cp and get way ahead of everyone cuz it aint gonna happen cuz the exp gains but now they have really crippled everyone and eventually your cp wont matter anyways it will just be how you have it setup and then maybe then it will be even if they slowly raise the cap it cant be in increments of 500 all at once 6 months later maybe make the cap like 25 cp a month to make it a progressional thing once we get on the same page but if next cap is 1k i swear im quitting cuz i already know people with more than 1k and thats gonna be bull that im still at around 500 because of a cp cap and they automatically get 1k and i gotta grind out 500 cp so imo if their gonna keep this system in play their gonna only be able to increase the cap by like 25-50 at a time otherwise the cap is pointless and the same stuff is just gonna be happening and people complaining about cp differences it wont change because they waited to long unless they actually make it small increment increases which they prob wont do enough people will complain for what they want then increase very large and it will be back to the same stuff people were complaining about in the first place so plz ZoS do small increment increases not big huge ones plz never over 100 cuz it will suck to have to catch up 100 cp to these guys i have to play against and im almost up there but if you keep this in effect it keeps us all on the same playing field and im totally fine with that :P

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

@Ezareth there modified it, it still doesn't change anything. they are gonna chop the head off the snake... with their half-assed attempt to "equalize" things, that won't be equal ever

Ezareth

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

@Ezareth there modified it, it still doesn't change anything. they are gonna chop the head off the snake...

I just think this is going to be one of those things where everyone is going to have to try the system out before commenting further. We've all pretty much said our piece. I think we can all agree the system as it exists now is preferable to the one that exists on live.

Mcnick

Paulington wrote: »

Hey all.

Myself and @Zinaroth have been discussing this system and whilst we have differing opinions on whether or not there should be a hard cap in the system we believe we have come up with two viable systems.

I will let @Zinaroth explain his system in the post he makes so I will focus on mine here.

XP Required = 100,000 + [CP Rank * (300,000/CP CAP)]

My suggestion is that the CP at the cap takes 400,000 XP to earn and everything prior to that takes <400,000 XP down to a base of 100,000 XP for CP Rank 1.

My first example is that with Orsinium the cap be set to 600 CP instead of the current 501, this means in 2.2 the graph of XP required vs. CP would look like this:



Once you hit the cap of 600 it levels out and each CP over the cap requires 400k XP. This means that those people who continue playing will feel like they are progressing their character still and not having to earn millions of XP for ever infinitesimal gains. We have to remember that it is ultimately irrelevant if someone has 2,000 CP over the cap because they can only spend the cap so why artificially limit their CP gain rate? This game is "play your way", so if they want to grind CP before the cap so they can "cap out" as soon as it is raised, why not?

Now, we have a cap of 600 with Orsinium release, when and how is the cap raised? We all know we dislike not knowing when things will happen and like to plan ahead, so my suggestion is a biannual CP cap raise on pre-determined dates. The cap would raise by 375 CP twice a year.



Of course if this rate of cap increase is too slow it could be modified, but I think 750 CP per year is a solid rate of cap increase based upon the expected life cycle of this game at release.

Now the important part is that when the cap is raised, the XP required for the CP below the cap changes also. Here is a comparison graph for the cap at 600 and the first cap raise to 975.



As you can see, it becomes easier to gain the first CP Ranks and "catch up" to those at the cap as time goes on. This means that even if you start playing ESO when the cap is 2,100 you can with effort catch up to those at the cap.

With this system, enlightenment would remain unchanged at 400,000 XP per day. This means people with low CP will get more CP per day than those at the cap if they only use their enlightenment each day.

DISCLAIMER: I've yet to fully flesh this out and may have made a mistake or two throwing it together. I don't claim that this is THE solution but I believe it is better than the current solution. I would be open to a combination of my system and @Zinaroth's system where CP get more expensive after the cap but it doesn't go above 400k XP per CP prior to the current cap. I'm just looking for input and advice on this.

Thanks to @Zinaroth for helping me out here!

ya except increasing the cap 2 times a year at ur rate would just ruin the game and put us back in the position were in.. do it montly at like 25-50 cp at a time that is very reasonable thats 1-2 cp a day that isnt hard for anyone at all imo especially cuz you get enlightened once a day so if you cant get 1 cp a day thats not our problem it requires literally 10 mins of gameplay to grind out a cp lvl if its enlightened a reasonable cap so we all would feel like it is character progression would be 25-30 cp a month we would eventually catch up to the people with high numbers and they would stay around the same number cuz its harder for them to earn makes perfect sense but if you wait 6 months to 1 year to raise the cap its gonna kill it or put us back in the same position were in right now which makes no sense monthly cap raises makes most sense not 6 month to 1 year at 300-400 cp no... makes no sense... then we have to do the same exact grind literally everyone though thats behind this time and i personaly know people with over 1500 so this wont effect them but if we did a monthly 25-50 cp us peeps that were behind could eventually 1 month be caught up to the people at 1500+ but idk if that will be possible for anyone with this in effect good idea with the cp system bad setup i agree the cap could be a lil higher than 501 but we dont really know what can happen till they announce how often and how much these cp cap increases will be maybe 50 cp a month is a lil high but if its a cap they make the exp lower to get cp instead of higher if its a catch up mechanic and its only harder for people ahead of the cp cap thats the only people it should be harder for is the people ahead of the cp cap period

Mcnick

Mcnick wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

Hey all.

Myself and @Zinaroth have been discussing this system and whilst we have differing opinions on whether or not there should be a hard cap in the system we believe we have come up with two viable systems.

I will let @Zinaroth explain his system in the post he makes so I will focus on mine here.

XP Required = 100,000 + [CP Rank * (300,000/CP CAP)]

My suggestion is that the CP at the cap takes 400,000 XP to earn and everything prior to that takes <400,000 XP down to a base of 100,000 XP for CP Rank 1.

My first example is that with Orsinium the cap be set to 600 CP instead of the current 501, this means in 2.2 the graph of XP required vs. CP would look like this:



Once you hit the cap of 600 it levels out and each CP over the cap requires 400k XP. This means that those people who continue playing will feel like they are progressing their character still and not having to earn millions of XP for ever infinitesimal gains. We have to remember that it is ultimately irrelevant if someone has 2,000 CP over the cap because they can only spend the cap so why artificially limit their CP gain rate? This game is "play your way", so if they want to grind CP before the cap so they can "cap out" as soon as it is raised, why not?

Now, we have a cap of 600 with Orsinium release, when and how is the cap raised? We all know we dislike not knowing when things will happen and like to plan ahead, so my suggestion is a biannual CP cap raise on pre-determined dates. The cap would raise by 375 CP twice a year.



Of course if this rate of cap increase is too slow it could be modified, but I think 750 CP per year is a solid rate of cap increase based upon the expected life cycle of this game at release.

Now the important part is that when the cap is raised, the XP required for the CP below the cap changes also. Here is a comparison graph for the cap at 600 and the first cap raise to 975.



As you can see, it becomes easier to gain the first CP Ranks and "catch up" to those at the cap as time goes on. This means that even if you start playing ESO when the cap is 2,100 you can with effort catch up to those at the cap.

With this system, enlightenment would remain unchanged at 400,000 XP per day. This means people with low CP will get more CP per day than those at the cap if they only use their enlightenment each day.

DISCLAIMER: I've yet to fully flesh this out and may have made a mistake or two throwing it together. I don't claim that this is THE solution but I believe it is better than the current solution. I would be open to a combination of my system and @Zinaroth's system where CP get more expensive after the cap but it doesn't go above 400k XP per CP prior to the current cap. I'm just looking for input and advice on this.

Thanks to @Zinaroth for helping me out here!

ya except increasing the cap 2 times a year at ur rate would just ruin the game and put us back in the position were in.. do it montly at like 25-50 cp at a time that is very reasonable thats 1-2 cp a day that isnt hard for anyone at all imo especially cuz you get enlightened once a day so if you cant get 1 cp a day thats not our problem it requires literally 10 mins of gameplay to grind out a cp lvl if its enlightened a reasonable cap so we all would feel like it is character progression would be 25-30 cp a month we would eventually catch up to the people with high numbers and they would stay around the same number cuz its harder for them to earn makes perfect sense but if you wait 6 months to 1 year to raise the cap its gonna kill it or put us back in the same position were in right now which makes no sense monthly cap raises makes most sense not 6 month to 1 year at 300-400 cp no... makes no sense... then we have to do the same exact grind literally everyone though thats behind this time and i personaly know people with over 1500 so this wont effect them but if we did a monthly 25-50 cp us peeps that were behind could eventually 1 month be caught up to the people at 1500+ but idk if that will be possible for anyone with this in effect good idea with the cp system bad setup i agree the cap could be a lil higher than 501 but we dont really know what can happen till they announce how often and how much these cp cap increases will be maybe 50 cp a month is a lil high but if its a cap they make the exp lower to get cp instead of higher if its a catch up mechanic and its only harder for people ahead of the cp cap thats the only people it should be harder for is the people ahead of the cp cap period

and at the same time it would keep us all on the same level of game play and it would truly come down to how skillful the player is :P

Mcnick

AlnilamE wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this is straight up horrible, horrible

i love eso and i love pvp but,

there is 3 things ruining pvp for me right now:

1) these champion points
i will NEVER be able to catch up to people with those 501 CP, NEVER!
fact is i only have 278 champion points, and right now that means i pretty much get eaten alive by those with 350 or more champion points and most people have well over 500 and even 1000 champion points. ive played every day since beta and launch and i know for a fact i have played fairly and not grinded and grinded because i hate grinding!
yet those who grind thier brains out are allowed to be more powerfull then the rest of us? its not only unfair its down right mean of the developers to allow people to be so much more over powered like that.
why in heck are you letting people go way out in strength above others?
really terrible!

Sorry, but if you have 278 CP and are being "eaten alive" by people with 350, you may be doing something wrong. If you had say, 50, that would be a different story, but at 270+ you can put 30CP into each constellation and essentially get any of the 30-point passives you want.

Maybe you need to re-evaluate your build?

ya its only a real big difference at say 300-500-1k cp difference thats when youll prob get rolled but with 501 cap atleast those peeps will be brought down to our playing field and we can give em a taste of their own medicine ya?

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

@Ezareth there modified it, it still doesn't change anything. they are gonna chop the head off the snake...

I just think this is going to be one of those things where everyone is going to have to try the system out before commenting further. We've all pretty much said our piece. I think we can all agree the system as it exists now is preferable to the one that exists on live.

agreed, id roll with it if it was a soft cap at 501 with catch up in mind, but the hard cap pretty well does it for me. im a progressor, so this combined with the huge gear grind.... yeah forget this crap.

Atarax

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

@Ezareth there modified it, it still doesn't change anything. they are gonna chop the head off the snake...

I just think this is going to be one of those things where everyone is going to have to try the system out before commenting further. We've all pretty much said our piece. I think we can all agree the system as it exists now is preferable to the one that exists on live.

agreed, id roll with it if it was a soft cap at 501 with catch up in mind, but the hard cap pretty well does it for me. im a progressor, so this combined with the huge gear grind.... yeah for got it.

Mcnick wrote: »

Mcnick wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

Hey all.

Myself and @Zinaroth have been discussing this system and whilst we have differing opinions on whether or not there should be a hard cap in the system we believe we have come up with two viable systems.

I will let @Zinaroth explain his system in the post he makes so I will focus on mine here.

XP Required = 100,000 + [CP Rank * (300,000/CP CAP)]

My suggestion is that the CP at the cap takes 400,000 XP to earn and everything prior to that takes <400,000 XP down to a base of 100,000 XP for CP Rank 1.

My first example is that with Orsinium the cap be set to 600 CP instead of the current 501, this means in 2.2 the graph of XP required vs. CP would look like this:



Once you hit the cap of 600 it levels out and each CP over the cap requires 400k XP. This means that those people who continue playing will feel like they are progressing their character still and not having to earn millions of XP for ever infinitesimal gains. We have to remember that it is ultimately irrelevant if someone has 2,000 CP over the cap because they can only spend the cap so why artificially limit their CP gain rate? This game is "play your way", so if they want to grind CP before the cap so they can "cap out" as soon as it is raised, why not?

Now, we have a cap of 600 with Orsinium release, when and how is the cap raised? We all know we dislike not knowing when things will happen and like to plan ahead, so my suggestion is a biannual CP cap raise on pre-determined dates. The cap would raise by 375 CP twice a year.



Of course if this rate of cap increase is too slow it could be modified, but I think 750 CP per year is a solid rate of cap increase based upon the expected life cycle of this game at release.

Now the important part is that when the cap is raised, the XP required for the CP below the cap changes also. Here is a comparison graph for the cap at 600 and the first cap raise to 975.



As you can see, it becomes easier to gain the first CP Ranks and "catch up" to those at the cap as time goes on. This means that even if you start playing ESO when the cap is 2,100 you can with effort catch up to those at the cap.

With this system, enlightenment would remain unchanged at 400,000 XP per day. This means people with low CP will get more CP per day than those at the cap if they only use their enlightenment each day.

DISCLAIMER: I've yet to fully flesh this out and may have made a mistake or two throwing it together. I don't claim that this is THE solution but I believe it is better than the current solution. I would be open to a combination of my system and @Zinaroth's system where CP get more expensive after the cap but it doesn't go above 400k XP per CP prior to the current cap. I'm just looking for input and advice on this.

Thanks to @Zinaroth for helping me out here!

ya except increasing the cap 2 times a year at ur rate would just ruin the game and put us back in the position were in.. do it montly at like 25-50 cp at a time that is very reasonable thats 1-2 cp a day that isnt hard for anyone at all imo especially cuz you get enlightened once a day so if you cant get 1 cp a day thats not our problem it requires literally 10 mins of gameplay to grind out a cp lvl if its enlightened a reasonable cap so we all would feel like it is character progression would be 25-30 cp a month we would eventually catch up to the people with high numbers and they would stay around the same number cuz its harder for them to earn makes perfect sense but if you wait 6 months to 1 year to raise the cap its gonna kill it or put us back in the same position were in right now which makes no sense monthly cap raises makes most sense not 6 month to 1 year at 300-400 cp no... makes no sense... then we have to do the same exact grind literally everyone though thats behind this time and i personaly know people with over 1500 so this wont effect them but if we did a monthly 25-50 cp us peeps that were behind could eventually 1 month be caught up to the people at 1500+ but idk if that will be possible for anyone with this in effect good idea with the cp system bad setup i agree the cap could be a lil higher than 501 but we dont really know what can happen till they announce how often and how much these cp cap increases will be maybe 50 cp a month is a lil high but if its a cap they make the exp lower to get cp instead of higher if its a catch up mechanic and its only harder for people ahead of the cp cap thats the only people it should be harder for is the people ahead of the cp cap period

and at the same time it would keep us all on the same level of game play and it would truly come down to how skillful the player is :P

Or, they could use this formula instead:


XP Cost for next CP=MIN(400000,400000/(CAP/(NEXT CP^(NEXT CP/CAP))))

Which solves all the problems people seem to be concerned about (see my previous posts), regardless of what they make the cap.

With this formula, it always keeps players within 30 1,000,000 xp play sessions to get within 70-80% of the cap, and never costs more than 400,000 xp per cp.

This is how a catch-up should work.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Atarax wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

@Ezareth there modified it, it still doesn't change anything. they are gonna chop the head off the snake...

I just think this is going to be one of those things where everyone is going to have to try the system out before commenting further. We've all pretty much said our piece. I think we can all agree the system as it exists now is preferable to the one that exists on live.

agreed, id roll with it if it was a soft cap at 501 with catch up in mind, but the hard cap pretty well does it for me. im a progressor, so this combined with the huge gear grind.... yeah for got it.

Mcnick wrote: »

Mcnick wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

Hey all.

Myself and @Zinaroth have been discussing this system and whilst we have differing opinions on whether or not there should be a hard cap in the system we believe we have come up with two viable systems.

I will let @Zinaroth explain his system in the post he makes so I will focus on mine here.

XP Required = 100,000 + [CP Rank * (300,000/CP CAP)]

My suggestion is that the CP at the cap takes 400,000 XP to earn and everything prior to that takes <400,000 XP down to a base of 100,000 XP for CP Rank 1.

My first example is that with Orsinium the cap be set to 600 CP instead of the current 501, this means in 2.2 the graph of XP required vs. CP would look like this:



Once you hit the cap of 600 it levels out and each CP over the cap requires 400k XP. This means that those people who continue playing will feel like they are progressing their character still and not having to earn millions of XP for ever infinitesimal gains. We have to remember that it is ultimately irrelevant if someone has 2,000 CP over the cap because they can only spend the cap so why artificially limit their CP gain rate? This game is "play your way", so if they want to grind CP before the cap so they can "cap out" as soon as it is raised, why not?

Now, we have a cap of 600 with Orsinium release, when and how is the cap raised? We all know we dislike not knowing when things will happen and like to plan ahead, so my suggestion is a biannual CP cap raise on pre-determined dates. The cap would raise by 375 CP twice a year.



Of course if this rate of cap increase is too slow it could be modified, but I think 750 CP per year is a solid rate of cap increase based upon the expected life cycle of this game at release.

Now the important part is that when the cap is raised, the XP required for the CP below the cap changes also. Here is a comparison graph for the cap at 600 and the first cap raise to 975.



As you can see, it becomes easier to gain the first CP Ranks and "catch up" to those at the cap as time goes on. This means that even if you start playing ESO when the cap is 2,100 you can with effort catch up to those at the cap.

With this system, enlightenment would remain unchanged at 400,000 XP per day. This means people with low CP will get more CP per day than those at the cap if they only use their enlightenment each day.

DISCLAIMER: I've yet to fully flesh this out and may have made a mistake or two throwing it together. I don't claim that this is THE solution but I believe it is better than the current solution. I would be open to a combination of my system and @Zinaroth's system where CP get more expensive after the cap but it doesn't go above 400k XP per CP prior to the current cap. I'm just looking for input and advice on this.

Thanks to @Zinaroth for helping me out here!

ya except increasing the cap 2 times a year at ur rate would just ruin the game and put us back in the position were in.. do it montly at like 25-50 cp at a time that is very reasonable thats 1-2 cp a day that isnt hard for anyone at all imo especially cuz you get enlightened once a day so if you cant get 1 cp a day thats not our problem it requires literally 10 mins of gameplay to grind out a cp lvl if its enlightened a reasonable cap so we all would feel like it is character progression would be 25-30 cp a month we would eventually catch up to the people with high numbers and they would stay around the same number cuz its harder for them to earn makes perfect sense but if you wait 6 months to 1 year to raise the cap its gonna kill it or put us back in the same position were in right now which makes no sense monthly cap raises makes most sense not 6 month to 1 year at 300-400 cp no... makes no sense... then we have to do the same exact grind literally everyone though thats behind this time and i personaly know people with over 1500 so this wont effect them but if we did a monthly 25-50 cp us peeps that were behind could eventually 1 month be caught up to the people at 1500+ but idk if that will be possible for anyone with this in effect good idea with the cp system bad setup i agree the cap could be a lil higher than 501 but we dont really know what can happen till they announce how often and how much these cp cap increases will be maybe 50 cp a month is a lil high but if its a cap they make the exp lower to get cp instead of higher if its a catch up mechanic and its only harder for people ahead of the cp cap thats the only people it should be harder for is the people ahead of the cp cap period

and at the same time it would keep us all on the same level of game play and it would truly come down to how skillful the player is :P

Or, they could use this formula instead:


XP Cost for next CP=MIN(400000,400000/(CAP/(NEXT CP^(NEXT CP/CAP))))

Which solves all the problems people seem to be concerned about (see my previous posts), regardless of what they make the cap.

With this formula, it always keeps players within 30 1,000,000 xp play sessions to get within 70-80% of the cap, and never costs more than 400,000 xp per cp.

This is how a catch-up should work.

again, my issue isn't the equations proposed. its the environment they are being put into. the game environment doesn't provide the means to support these equations (as i have pointed out in a previous post, that i linked at the bottom). this will not provide a means of catch up in ESO. it does in rift, but rift is a whole different game, in just about every respect with regard to experience gains.

ultimately this is an irrelevant change (still allows for a large gap), that potentially impacts the game negatively in the form of financial gain. the hard cap produces an environment where people that would otherwise continue paying won't benefit- so naturally players will stop paying. the environment still requires some paying but much lesser than the current live. so sustained income is greatly diminished by these equations. this forces a small sustained income bracket, requiring a larger burst income bracket (which is how B2P/F2P operates). it also won't provide much catching up, in an environment that doesn't provide the content needed to just progress "naturally" from a more casual players point of view. it still requires them to grind to be proficient, because the quests are too low yield for the champion system to progress for them. but even if my estimates are wrong, its irrelevant... whats the point of having 501CPs with you're facing 501CPs with end-game gold gear, and you can barely get out of the VR14/VR15 <color> gear. a modest "rarity" component is okay, with the current CP system, because you can offset short-falls with that system freely. besides, right now 400 hours of gear grinding equates to 400 hours in the champion system, so ill gladly mob grind (mob drops for deconstruction) AND node farm as i do now on live. making tradeskill items substantially rare, and locking players at caps, diminishes return and thus satisfaction of working towards end-game gear.

im also 100% for a CP locked server in pvp. their request is not unreasonable from this PVE'ers point of view....

in the current form, an equation essentially applies a rule to a human, in an inadequate environment for success: see link for my argument.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2345892/#Comment_2345892

this was why my proposal is what it is (modify current content to achieve a result), at the bottom of the comment i posted here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2342834/#Comment_2342834

Mystikkal

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

Greetings all!

There have been several requests on the forums for an explanation of exactly how the Champion System Catch-up mechanic we’re introducing with the Orsinium patch works. We’re here to offer some details about how the system works on the PTS, and hopefully answer some of your questions. Please note: This thread is not to discuss the pros/cons of the system, but rather to pass on some information about how the system currently works to help you with testing, and assist us in spotting any inconsistencies or errors.

With the new system, the formula used to calculate the amount of XP needed to gain a single Champion Point is as follows:
((TotalPoints / (Cap ^ 0.95)) + 0.08) * 400000, where Total Points is how many CP points you’ve earned.
If you exceed the cap, the XP required is calculated given the above formula, and then tripled. (So, the XP you would need to earn 512 Champion Points is 589,807, which is then tripled to 1,769,421.)
For the first Champion Point (going from 0 Champion Points to 1 Champion Point) 1XP is required.
We only triple the point values if you are over the current Champion Point cap—once we raise the cap, the values will return to normal.

The new catch-up mechanic, currently on PTS, is subject to change based on player feedback and data. We’ll be iterating on it as needed on the PTS—we’ll do our best to update this post if and when that happens.

Please let us know if you have any questions!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_PaulSage @ZOS_RyanRuzich @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I think I have made my point pretty clear in other posts, but since this is the official thread for CP feedback, I will summarize my opinion here. I strongly suggest that @ZOS read and consider this post as the direction of the CP system is very important for the future of ESO. I want to start by stating that I, and many others who are against the CP cap, agree that something needs to be done to lessen the power gap created by CP. We just don’t believe the CP cap is the correct solution. This post is also meant to look at this issue subjectively from all players perspectives (both low and high CP), which I think many people fail to do.
Problem Statement:
The CP cap is being proposed because the power gap between players is too large.

Pros of the CP Cap Solution:
• Improved balance between those with low CP and those with high CP. Also allows ZOS to balance the game from a PvE perspective (i.e. build content for the max CP).
• Reduced need to grind
• Folks who enjoy “low XP” activities (e.g. PvP, crafting, trials) would be more free to engage in those activities as they would not feel the pressure of constantly gaining CP

Cons of Suggested Solution:
• Negative financial impact – Players would have less incentive to subscribe (10% xp gain) and would purchase less XP scrolls
• Loss of consistent progression – Many players enjoy the feeling of constant progression. Once folks obtain the gear from new patches, they no longer have ways of progression.
• Loss of motivation from high CP players – progression helps motivate people to play, when people feel like others are progressing and they are not, they will be less motivated to play.
• Less than ideal outcome for most players –
• High CP Players - Many folks have spent a lot of time, energy and money on gaining CP. They have sacrificed doing certain activities that they enjoy (e.g. PvP), to grind CP. This was their decision because the expectation was that it would result in progression that they would retain. If it had taken them this long to get VR14 gear, and you were raising the VR level to 16, that would be acceptable, because they knew that was coming. In this instance, you are essentially sticking it to some of your most dedicated player base.
• Mid CP Players – It will take them more XP than normal to gain CP, which will not sit well with these players.
• Low CP Players/New Players – While there is a catch-up mechanic, and while players will be capped at 501, the power gap between low CP players and 501 CP players is still dramatic (even if the gap will be closed faster).

Proposed Solution
• Decrease the power of the CP system (by ~65%)
• Drastically increase the diminishing returns
• Implement not only a catch up mechanic, but also a baseline of CP for anyone with a VR1 character. To make it fair, give everyone x XP, which will dramatically provide more CP for new players than high CP players (given diminishing returns).
• Balance XP gain from all sources of gameplay (e.g. PvP, dungeons need buff).

Pros of my Proposed Solution:
• Like the CP Cap, this would improve balance between those with low CP and those with high CP. In fact, this would balance the power gap even more. New players would not be going against 501 CP players who have 25% extra physical dmg, 25% more stamina regen, etc. They would be going against players will high CP, but that would mean maybe 5% more weapon damage (because they have some CP and the CP system only provides so much). This would also allow ZOS to balance the game from a PvE perspective as well because the CP is not a huge factor.
• Continual progression (this may be seen as a negative to some, but, hey, it’s an MMO ain’t it? And I don’t know about you, but I find it fun to progress.. and it keeps me motivated and playing.
• Folks who enjoy “low XP” activities (e.g. PvP, crafting, trials) would be more free to engage in those activities because you have balanced the XP gain.
• Pretty ideal for most players:
o High CP Players - By doing this, you are not completely removing something that folks have rightfully earned through their time and money (e.g. subscription 10% XP bonus, XP scrolls, etc.). These players will be nerfed, but they won’t feel like all their work was for nothing.
o Mid CP Players – These players should be fine. The high CP players aren’t overly strong and these players understand that MMOs are about progression and expect that players who play a lot will be slightly stronger.
o Low CP Players – The power gap will be less than the 0 CP to 501 CP gap being proposed, so these players will have a chance in PvP. They will also gain CP faster. They should be happy with that.

Cons of my Proposed Solution:
• More work for ZOS to implement (rebalance game around new CP values).
• Balance is not perfect (small power gap between players). This is really the only disadvantage that I see. It’s up to ZOS: do you want perfect balance? There are a lot of disadvantages that come along with perfect balance (outlined above). I like that balance, but remember, this isn’t an e-sport, it’s an MMO. If you had competitive battlegrounds (which BTW you really should implement), then I could understand the desire for perfect balance. With the game the way you have it; and the way you already implemented CP, I’d say my solution is better. If you do put caps in, you really should lower the gap between low CP and 501 CP players.

~Mystikkal

Hiero_Glyph

@Mystikkal

Excellent post and I agree with almost all of it. The only thing that still needs to be addressed is the CP passives as simply scaling these down would not be an effective balancing mechanic since many of them would become pointless if reduced. Any thoughts on how to address CP passives?

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@Mystikkal

Excellent post and I agree with almost all of it. The only thing that still needs to be addressed is the CP passives as simply scaling these down would not be an effective balancing mechanic since many of them would become pointless if reduced. Any thoughts on how to address CP passives?

tweak gradually down to find equilibrium. its the same as any other game mechanic; and should be treated as such. it takes time to balance ANY mechanic that is based on 500,000 human variables....

essentially the polar opposite of how block casting/ dodge rolling were addressed....

tordr86b16_ESO

From 501 to 600 you will need to grind 193.618.971 XP while with the old system you only need 39.600.000 XP, SIGH.

CP5

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

From 501 to 600 you will need to grind 193.618.971 XP while with the old system you only need 39.600.000 XP, SIGH.

That's the point. They don't want people to always be sitting on the next season's hard cap.

Waseem

people with 1.7k CPs are so angry..
tip #7294355 : always choose dominance over fair play.

Mystikkal

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@Mystikkal

Excellent post and I agree with almost all of it. The only thing that still needs to be addressed is the CP passives as simply scaling these down would not be an effective balancing mechanic since many of them would become pointless if reduced. Any thoughts on how to address CP passives?

@Hiero_Glyph

I actually don't think the passives that are unlocked are over the top. The best passives are probably the crit ones that you get pretty quick. Things like unchained are great, but not game breaking. They could be toned down slightly I suppose.

AlnilamE

CP5 wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

From 501 to 600 you will need to grind 193.618.971 XP while with the old system you only need 39.600.000 XP, SIGH.

That's the point. They don't want people to always be sitting on the next season's hard cap.

But why? If someone wants to play the game that way, why does it matter?

The way the cap and the catch-up system are implemented (and I still maintain that once you get to 400k XP per point, it should just flatten out there), will allow new players to get within a fair distance of the cap in a reasonable amount of time.

A lot of people seem to think that the catch-up mechanic should allow people to reach the cap within each "season". I don't think that is the intent. I think it's intended to get the average player to a median, and folks that play a lot to or close to the cap.

And I think that's fine.

What I think is not fine is being penalized for playing the game enough that you are at the cap. I think if they make it a curve up to the point where you hit 400k/CP again and then leave it, and let players above the cap keep earning them at a normal rate, that will be sufficient.

Olysja

it's a totally *** formula. it's good only for casuals, new players and who already got over 2k points. and it's against all players that atm got 450-800 points so against all normal/decent players. you totally block the exp gained by those players till your next *** DLC. awesome fortuma really, there is no need to grind for all those players during orsinium and they can go play another game waiting for your next DLC wow: )

remilafo

@ZOS_RichLambert

I like the new formula but PLEASE PLEASE

you can't hurt existing players by taking away their earned time.

You must perform a xp conversion from the current system to the new one. please PLEASE convert the XP otherwise people end up losing DAYS of time , you can't do this..

Convert the XP.

Ezareth

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remilafo wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

I like the new formula but PLEASE PLEASE

you can't hurt existing players by taking away their earned time.

You must perform a xp conversion from the current system to the new one. please PLEASE convert the XP otherwise people end up losing DAYS of time , you can't do this..

Convert the XP.

What does that even mean? "Converting" the XP earned by players over the cap would rob them of 10s if not 100s of millions of experience. How would that help them?

AlnilamE

@ZOS_RyanRuzich , can you please clarify what this means:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Champion Point Catch-Up Mechanic Updates

• It will now take less experience to gain a Champion Point at higher levels.
• Lower levels will now require slightly more experience.
• After hitting the Champion Point cap, you will now need significantly less experience to gain additional Champion Points that will be held in a reserve.

What's the formula for this?

Thank you. :-)

Ezareth

AlnilamE wrote: »

@ZOS_RyanRuzich , can you please clarify what this means:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Champion Point Catch-Up Mechanic Updates

• It will now take less experience to gain a Champion Point at higher levels.
• Lower levels will now require slightly more experience.
• After hitting the Champion Point cap, you will now need significantly less experience to gain additional Champion Points that will be held in a reserve.

What's the formula for this?

Thank you. :-)

That is the formula that Ryan posted earlier. The third point is confusing to read however because it is not in context with the original formula as champion points are still more expensive after hitting the cap....just not as expensive as they were in the prior patch. (1.5 penalty versus 3.0 penalty).

Enodoc

@AlnilamE Here's the formula:

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

Hey everyone,
Thanks for all the feedback so far. We love reading your enthusiasm on this new system. Our goal is to make it as polished and awesome as possible before releasing to the live servers. The three main changes we’re looking to make are:

• Reducing the speed at which XP per point accelerates. Our data shows there is a good number of people in the 300 champion point range and we didn’t want them to feel like they had to grind all the way to 501 before the system releases. This now means players are gaining champion points faster than the old value up until their 445th point.
• Slightly increasing base XP. This helps normalize the curve a bit so players are spending a little more time in the beginning of the curve and less time at the end of the curve.
• Reducing the XP penalty for players past cap. We want dedicated players to still be able to make meaningful progress.

The formula would be adjusted in the following way to meet these goals:

• ((TotalPoints / (Cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000, where Total Points is how many CP points you’ve earned.
• If you exceed the cap, the XP required is calculated given the above formula and then multiplied by 1.5.
• For the first Champion Point (going from 0 Champion Points to 1 Champion Point) 34000 XP is required.