Pretty impressive how the sorcs and such have turned the thread around on to the DK class. Are sure you haven't stolen their reflective wings?

Teargrants wrote: »

Is it just me or has the quality of nerf sorc threads been progressively getting lower and lower? I am disappoint.

It's not nerf sorc, it's balance the game

Maybe ball of lightning is a bit over the top, but other than that what is so OP about Sorcs?

I just see /cry /cry /cry and I really somehow expected more, this completely clueless whining will lead to nothing. If you're truly arguing that there is a balance issue then point out what your problem is.

In the adult world no one will help you unless you make a good argument, and ZOS employees are probably older than 14 so they know better than to listen to "sorc OP nerf all sorc skills sorc is DK so bad".

It's the same thing as DKs all over again, just the same whining, no actual feedback about anything in specific.. just whine. Guess why a scales nerf took months? Because the feedback was largely put forward by people like this.

There are like 10 of these threads. Maybe if

Ezareth wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

I ran into a NB yesterday that I couldn't kill. NBs are OP and need to be nerfed. People need to wake up to how OP NBs are. It's so obvious it's amusing.

Sorry bout that.

Let me guess? Resto Staff + Healing ward? Yeah those NBs are the ones who are damn near impossible to kill without luck or a mistake on their part. Don't worry though, the rest are still too busy crying about a lack of a class heal and cloak bugs to realize how freaking powerful their class is when played properly.

That's garbage... Everyone knows this, but not everyone wants to run the FOTM build. Any block casting / shield stack build is super easy to play... anyone who exchanges magicka for health in any way in PVP is super tough. Do you honestly want everyone running that build?

The best damage is what exactly? Sure, I use frags, fury and curse but my main damage is still from Fire Reach and Force Pulse. But yes, we have some useful class skills for damage like:

NBs have crippling grasp, funnel health, concealed weapon
Templars have puncturing strikes, vampires bane, shards, dark flare, radiant
DKs have whip, engulfing, molten weapons (you wouldn't believe how much of my damage is actually just heavy attacks, they hit as hard as my frags as a sorc even..)

And we have nice defense with ward and ball of lightning just like:

NBs have funnel, dark cloak (which is amazing and my NB build can basically dodge any attacks for cheap magicka, run in and out just as well as my ball of lightning), double take
DKs have igneous shield, scales, green dragon blood
Templars have blazing shield, breath of life

Plus everyone has access to all weapon skills and guilds.

Honestly, if you think outside the box a little bit I really can't see how you couldn't make an equally good and survivable build with any class. The above are only Magicka skills as that seems to be what people are complaining about, but you can do the same with Stamina for sure. Templars and DKs lack escape because they have better defensive tools in combat.

Dark Cloak is *** crazy, I can permastealth for several minutes and evade all attacks on my magicka NB. As it does not have the bolt escape cost, I can get much further with that than my Sorc. Combine with double take every few seconds for the run speed and whoahh!!

But y'know, no points were raised here whatsoever - so if you think I'm not going to classify it as pointless whine.. well GL.

technohic wrote: »

Heals are not 10k a pop

No, my BOL is ~15K crit.

Gorthax wrote: »

no one talks about perma dodge rollers who roll around and WB spam when they can until you die then dodge roll away......but hey sorcs op right?

what a big BS and lie..... OMG sorcs you are so pathetic defenders of OPness, never was in ESO history.

Kypho wrote: »

King Bozo wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

Sorc have been nerfed to just OP instead of ridiculously OP.

Please enlighten me say something intelligent. Sorry had to say that some npc says that in the game. Killing sorcs is easy period if that's your goal I kill sorcs all the time as a full spec healer in pvp. I am not even set up for dps with that build so that is why it is hard for me to reason with people that cant kill sorcs. Maybe change your bars because sorcs appear easier to kill then the guards in pvp.

Noone can say something intelligent to a sorc (pathetic OPness defender ones), they cant understand anyway.

^Look at this for example and you understand why no one takes this seriously. If I can guess he's probably running a poorly build stam build with no regen and can only kill targets who are foolish enough to stand still and get hit by WB spam t the face. Just guessing here..

technohic wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

The best damage is what exactly? Sure, I use frags, fury and curse but my main damage is still from Fire Reach and Force Pulse. But yes, we have some useful class skills for damage like:

NBs have crippling grasp, funnel health, concealed weapon
Templars have puncturing strikes, vampires bane, shards, dark flare, radiant
DKs have whip, engulfing, molten weapons (you wouldn't believe how much of my damage is actually just heavy attacks, they hit as hard as my frags as a sorc even..)

And we have nice defense with ward and ball of lightning just like:

NBs have funnel, dark cloak (which is amazing and my NB build can basically dodge any attacks for cheap magicka, run in and out just as well as my ball of lightning), double take
DKs have igneous shield, scales, green dragon blood
Templars have blazing shield, breath of life

Plus everyone has access to all weapon skills and guilds.

Honestly, if you think outside the box a little bit I really can't see how you couldn't make an equally good and survivable build with any class. The above are only Magicka skills as that seems to be what people are complaining about, but you can do the same with Stamina for sure. Templars and DKs lack escape because they have better defensive tools in combat.

Dark Cloak is *** crazy, I can permastealth for several minutes and evade all attacks on my magicka NB. As it does not have the bolt escape cost, I can get much further with that than my Sorc. Combine with double take every few seconds for the run speed and whoahh!!

But y'know, no points were raised here whatsoever - so if you think I'm not going to classify it as pointless whine.. well GL.

technohic wrote: »

Heals are not 10k a pop

No, my BOL is ~15K crit.

NOTHING is even sniffing 15K+ crystal frags on heavy armored targets. Not siege nor stealth snipes. At least not that I have seen personally. Part of this might be due to offense being able to also stack your defense while that templar blazing shield you talk about would need 40k health to have one as big, and it costs more.

I have not seen a BOL crit for 15k either. I will try to see if I can push it that high. Might be with some sets that boost healing recieved or again, very gear specialized to do healing and forsaking damage.

So between NBs escape and DKs/Templars defenses combined gives you what you feel is equal to sorcs? Again; templars do not really have anything for defense outside of blazing shield and stacking nothing but health to even match your shield. not sure what they got there you think is so great but sorcs bubble is better. They got heals, but you can do a resto staff as well, which most templars have to do in order to have that great of heals as well, and a shield when they get low on health. BOL is terribly ineficient as far as heals go.

The thing is, its not so bad, but when you go on to defend it by combining all 3 other classes in order to match what you have, it makes it look worse.

My frags in full spell power gear don't even hit for 15K on light armor, so I guess I have to applaud whoever made that happen on heavy. Probably stacking the bugged spell pen that was patched out yesterday (apprentice´+sharpened)? Now, that was a bug - and I think we can agree that is not a class issue

Well, I am a healer after all so I wear healer+seducer - with CP in blessed and elfborn mainly. However elfborn just started effecting healing in last nights patch I guess so it should be even higher now.

I agree that Templars shield got hit a bit hard with the 15% dmg shield nerf, but really against a balanced sorc it's not that much different. In Cyro my hardened is about 30% or so of my HP, sure you could have less HP and rely 100% on shields but in that case .. burn stam -> cc -> instakill. That really isn't too hard.

Why you call BOL inefficient is beyond me actually, it's decently cheap (less than half the cost of recasting bolt escape) and heals for a ***. More so with low HP unless they changed the passives, honestly ahven't looked at that since the patch.

You have to look at everything in context, which is what these threads almost always lack. And yeah, some people have build extremely survivable and annoying builds with all classes in different specs - escaping sorcs/nbs, tanky dks/templars etc. and sometimes you can't kill them.. but unless you *** up majorly, you shouldn't get killed by them either.

Tanks and Escape builds pray on your bad mistakes, don't make one and they definitely cannot kill you. Don't just chase after them and run headfirst into an ambush like all the stupid pugs and you should be fine

technohic wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

King Bozo wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

Sorc have been nerfed to just OP instead of ridiculously OP.

Please enlighten me say something intelligent. Sorry had to say that some npc says that in the game. Killing sorcs is easy period if that's your goal I kill sorcs all the time as a full spec healer in pvp. I am not even set up for dps with that build so that is why it is hard for me to reason with people that cant kill sorcs. Maybe change your bars because sorcs appear easier to kill then the guards in pvp.

Noone can say something intelligent to a sorc (pathetic OPness defender ones), they cant understand anyway.

^Look at this for example and you understand why no one takes this seriously. If I can guess he's probably running a poorly build stam build with no regen and can only kill targets who are foolish enough to stand still and get hit by WB spam t the face. Just guessing here..

technohic wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

The best damage is what exactly? Sure, I use frags, fury and curse but my main damage is still from Fire Reach and Force Pulse. But yes, we have some useful class skills for damage like:

NBs have crippling grasp, funnel health, concealed weapon
Templars have puncturing strikes, vampires bane, shards, dark flare, radiant
DKs have whip, engulfing, molten weapons (you wouldn't believe how much of my damage is actually just heavy attacks, they hit as hard as my frags as a sorc even..)

And we have nice defense with ward and ball of lightning just like:

NBs have funnel, dark cloak (which is amazing and my NB build can basically dodge any attacks for cheap magicka, run in and out just as well as my ball of lightning), double take
DKs have igneous shield, scales, green dragon blood
Templars have blazing shield, breath of life

Plus everyone has access to all weapon skills and guilds.

Honestly, if you think outside the box a little bit I really can't see how you couldn't make an equally good and survivable build with any class. The above are only Magicka skills as that seems to be what people are complaining about, but you can do the same with Stamina for sure. Templars and DKs lack escape because they have better defensive tools in combat.

Dark Cloak is *** crazy, I can permastealth for several minutes and evade all attacks on my magicka NB. As it does not have the bolt escape cost, I can get much further with that than my Sorc. Combine with double take every few seconds for the run speed and whoahh!!

But y'know, no points were raised here whatsoever - so if you think I'm not going to classify it as pointless whine.. well GL.

technohic wrote: »

Heals are not 10k a pop

No, my BOL is ~15K crit.

NOTHING is even sniffing 15K+ crystal frags on heavy armored targets. Not siege nor stealth snipes. At least not that I have seen personally. Part of this might be due to offense being able to also stack your defense while that templar blazing shield you talk about would need 40k health to have one as big, and it costs more.

I have not seen a BOL crit for 15k either. I will try to see if I can push it that high. Might be with some sets that boost healing recieved or again, very gear specialized to do healing and forsaking damage.

So between NBs escape and DKs/Templars defenses combined gives you what you feel is equal to sorcs? Again; templars do not really have anything for defense outside of blazing shield and stacking nothing but health to even match your shield. not sure what they got there you think is so great but sorcs bubble is better. They got heals, but you can do a resto staff as well, which most templars have to do in order to have that great of heals as well, and a shield when they get low on health. BOL is terribly ineficient as far as heals go.

The thing is, its not so bad, but when you go on to defend it by combining all 3 other classes in order to match what you have, it makes it look worse.

My frags in full spell power gear don't even hit for 15K on light armor, so I guess I have to applaud whoever made that happen on heavy. Probably stacking the bugged spell pen that was patched out yesterday (apprentice´+sharpened)? Now, that was a bug - and I think we can agree that is not a class issue

Well, I am a healer after all so I wear healer+seducer - with CP in blessed and elfborn mainly. However elfborn just started effecting healing in last nights patch I guess so it should be even higher now.

I agree that Templars shield got hit a bit hard with the 15% dmg shield nerf, but really against a balanced sorc it's not that much different. In Cyro my hardened is about 30% or so of my HP, sure you could have less HP and rely 100% on shields but in that case .. burn stam -> cc -> instakill. That really isn't too hard.

Why you call BOL inefficient is beyond me actually, it's decently cheap (less than half the cost of recasting bolt escape) and heals for a ***. More so with low HP unless they changed the passives, honestly ahven't looked at that since the patch.

You have to look at everything in context, which is what these threads almost always lack. And yeah, some people have build extremely survivable and annoying builds with all classes in different specs - escaping sorcs/nbs, tanky dks/templars etc. and sometimes you can't kill them.. but unless you *** up majorly, you shouldn't get killed by them either.

Tanks and Escape builds pray on your bad mistakes, don't make one and they definitely cannot kill you. Don't just chase after them and run headfirst into an ambush like all the stupid pugs and you should be fine

Yeah; I am not sure about the spell penetration bug but over 15k on my breton in heavy armor amounting to over 21k spell resist is what I saw. Have seen people post that they have gotten 25k crits out of it. Maybe it was just a matter of the bug.

The way they nerfed shields, Blazing on an average health player assuming 25k is an average, would be 6375. Given how many abilities will hit more than that when not mitigated, it winds up being more of a liability as the damage overflow then hits you unmitigated. Seems like hardened ward is quite a bit more than that. Of course you are succeptible to the same overflow damage when the shield pops but pairing with healing ward kind of combats that. Im talking blazing which had its cost increased and is also kind of offensive as well so maybe we can get away from that and talk about the cheaper radiant ward that is a defense but it gets little to no boost. The fact that either requires targets to boost their strength really adds nothing to them since the range on that is so short. You'd have to be suicidal to be in a crowd of enough enemies to make up for it.

Someone had posted the numbers somwhere comparing heals to magicka cost. Healing springs and healing ritual were toward the top of I recall and BOL was dead last. It is the biggest burst heal, but efficient it is not.

Well, efficiency depends on what you compare it to. Yes, it is inefficient but it's biggest strength is that it is not situational - which is unique.

GDB - only worthwhile at low health
Healing Ward - same
Healing Springs - hot
Regeneration - hot

etc.

And compare it to classes like NB / Sorc that does not have heals. Sure, you could keep your pet out all the time to have access to a one-time heal but that's .. yeah. Not gonna happen.

I can cast breath of life at least 20 times in combat without running out of Magicka, so I consider it to be efficient.

Breaking my Sorc shield isn't hard at all, of course I also couple it with harness magicka and healing ward if my health drops low. Then it's hard to break with magicka for sure, but that goes for anyone using the combo.

In the end my conclusion is yes, the 15% reduction was harsh for templars and I don't agree with that one specifically, but I really do not see hardened ward being OP. If you get my health low so I can shield for 100% HP, then yes, it's hard to break.. but that can be achieved with only harness+healing ward.

eliisra wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I have not seen a BOL crit for 15k either. I will try to see if I can push it that high. Might be with some sets that boost healing recieved or again, very gear specialized to do healing and forsaking damage.

With all skill- and PvP buffs, you can heal even more. If your target has inc healing, even bigger numbers. I had 18-19k crit BoL's on my templar.

For sure OP as a group healer. But not that big of a difference for the templars own survivability. You could be BoL'ing for 500k and still drop in a sec. Smart heals aren't class shields. They cant be used pro-actively, offers no crit immunity and cant be targeted. Templars have no escapes and with glass house heals, you cant invest in stamina for cc break, block and dodge. You can BoL a few times, hopefully end up healing yourself, than stamina is gone and you're cc'ed, knocked to bits and explode. There's like no way around it.

Blinking around with a 15-20k shield or spamming dodge-roll is a more effective way to stay alive. No one can tank multiple players in 1.6.5, especially not someone built to heal. You cant avoid it either, because you have no tools to get away or re-position when focused. Escapes and avoiding dmg, is the only thing that works in PvP right now.

Not saying nerf sorcerers. But I feel that the old argument about how templar + dk doesn't need help to escape or re-positioning in combat, because so tanky blah blah, it's clearly a bit outdated considering sorcs with a shield covering 65% of their health or more.

become a vampire and use mist form, problems with escaping are solved.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

How many people here play a stamina sorcerer? It is a practically classless setup, with practically no useful class skills whatsoever.

A Stamina Sorc is an oxymoron and about as useful as a Screen Door for a submarine. I've never understood the desire by players to play one, but more power to them I guess.