Ley wrote: »

camarillagreb17_ESO wrote: »

EXP boosts are not P2W for the simple reason that no matter how much money you spend on them we will all get where you are eventually.

They do not offer an exclusive benefit and frankly if you are worried about 1v1 balance in Cyrodiil your are probably playing the wrong game.

Just a heads up, when I tried that same argument I was told my opinion didn't matter because clearly I didn't know what I was talking about, but I do completely agree with you.

Edit: I feel like I predicted the future, with that lolz.

Based on this logic where is the end game gear in the crown store. I want it and have the cash to buy it. I mean, afterall, you can eventually get there, right?

Ley wrote: »

You guys are still at it, nice. Here I thought this was going to be a boring maintenance.

I look at the good that can come from exp pots and the bad and in my opinion, the good greatly out weighs the bad. I don't think that this game was designed to cater solely to the top 5% of players, therefor the small amount of negative impact that exp pots will have on them is negligible in my opinion, compared to the benefits for everyone else.

The Good:
- Players with less time to play can make up for it by buying exp pots and maximizing the benefits while they play.
- Players who don't enjoy grinding because it keeps them away from pvp, but still want to remain competitive, can use them to minimize the time they feel obligated to grind.
- Players can compensate for taking their time with content, pvping, and not wanting to grind, by taking exp potions while they quest, pvp or or whatever they enjoy doing in game.
- Players can level alternate characters faster or catch up to their friends in-order to play the same content. (doesn't really apply to cp)
- Zenimax makes more money, employees are happier, they are more motivated to work on new content and game improvements and can higher more employees for future projects.

The Bad:
- Some rare individuals will not eat, sleep or use the bathroom, whilst chugging exp potions 24/7 so that they can have an advantage over the other players who don't eat, sleep or go to the bathroom but don't chug exp potions.
- 2 people who put the same amount of in-game effort into their characters, one using exp pots and one not, will not reap the same benefits.
- Players without extra money to pay for exp potions may feel at a disadvantage.

The Rest:
- I think it's safe to assume, that unless these potions cost 50-100 crowns, most people will not be using them that often.
- There are so many factors that go into who wins, that the stat increases that come with an extra few hundred CP are not going to make or break a player, in my opinion.

And that is just off the top of my head, I'm sure other players could add to each category.

Are exp boosters a form of pay to win? That's a matter of opinion.
Are exp potions a form of pay for a slight advantage over others? Absolutely.
Does that advantage = win? Only in the most rare and extreme cases.
Will exp potions make more players happy than mad? We have yet to see, but I believe so.

This.

XP pots constitute P2W? Seriously? I mean, seriously?

lol I've tried to explain how paying for xp pots isn't winning anything, a person who doesn't pay can still get to where you are eventually with enough effort if you sleep or take a break.

People just want to complain for the sake of complaining, on almost any games forums there is a thread just like this, with the clueless and the people with a clue battling it out.


companies need money, they don't need nonconstructive threads.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Betahkiin wrote: »

rynth wrote: »

This is reason why do boosts are okay. I mean zos or any mmo have to be able to carter the casual gamers to hard core gamers with lots of time to play if they so choose. There is nothing wrong with the casual gamer who perhaps because of work or other rl issues can't play as much as others. Not to mention the money that is gained by company for players paying for a xp booster help keep game content coming and supporting the game.

If a user can use their free time to highlight, then others also have the right to use money to do so.

Some will say, I have no money to invest.

But then what about those who do not have time to invest?

Generally to users do not have time, other users often say they engaged in something else or just not play.

Well, this premise also be applied to those who do not invest money, engage yourself in something else or do not play.

You want to touch the sky with your hands?

You want to play in the first league?

Perfect, knowing that this game is not financed with air, to the great experience, ability and skill you have as player join the economic investment, and ready to be the best.

What about people who have both time and money? This in no way evens the playing field just because you want it to be true.

Having money to spend on a private service considered a luxury is not fair?

This is an entertainment given by a private company, of course you have more money to invest is fair.

It is thanks to those users who have money to invest that others can play for free.

You wanna be free of charge the same level of progress in a private service that a user who invests money?

The options are clear.

The service is private and enters the category of luxury consumer goods.

The service is maintained by money income.

You want to participate and be the best?

Pay.

You can not pay?

Ok, ZOS gives you the ability to play with no monthly cost, enjoy it.

Simple.

Try putting money as a sin in a service like this is ridiculous.

The best player package consists of:

- Free time.

- Skill.

- The best computer.

- The best connection.

- Money to invest in service.

You dont have money to invest?

Relax.

There is a lot of users without the other properties that are also at a disadvantage now.

Being the best is to try to achieve the best performance and in cases like this, investing money is to try to achieve the best performance.

Do not look for free equity in the business world, in these places, money talks.

Spottswoode:

Nobody forces you to do, you're free to stop commenting anytime.

Equally it would be good to use your ability to comment constructively.

The ridicule and discredit you intend to impose on me just make you look bad.

Greetings!

People who think the only way to make money with a game is to sell p2w items. Just to let you know that I also sub to a game named Final Fantasy XIV. The game is few years older than ESO and they don't sell any p2w items...

DDuke wrote: »

Why are you quoting yourself?

If you are upset no one responded to your post, it's mostly because it's full of stereotypes and logical fallacies.

For instance, you have no statistics on who are "rare individuals" and what they do.

You also have credible proof on what most of the players will or will not use, which doesn't make anything less P2W.


Lastly, whether experience boosters are a form of pay to win or not is not a matter of opinion, when they make some players win against others. Just because you don't beat some players with them, doesn't mean others won't, and saying those are "rare and extreme cases (of P2W)" is just guesswork at best

You believe P2W makes more players happy than mad? Well, it's ok to believe things, but poll proves otherwise (+-4.8% margin of error) :
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

I quoted myself because it was easier than repeating myself, like you have been.

Your poll is completely irrelevant to this topic, you rigged the poll by asking who wants p2w, not who thought exp potions were p2w, therefor it has no relevance to this topic whatsoever. I am not the first person to point this out and you're not being clever, the intention to take it out of context was obvious from the start. I'm not about to start a series of poll threads that I can later take out of context and use to base an argument upon.

Call my statistics on those "rare individuals" personal life experience. I've seen what it took in games to be on the top, from a personal point of view and friends. I've seen marriages end, people lose their jobs and a whole lot of messed up stuff. I read somewhere that there are around 1,000,000 people playing eso. The leaderboards have a few hundred names on top that have distinguished themselves, I'd say those are rare individuals. Most of us, I assume are content not being in the top 0.001% of players. It seems like it's a lot of that 0.001% who seem to have the biggest problem with this anyways.

No one has proof of anything at the moment, they haven't even implemented exp pots into the game. Again, all I can base it on is extensive past experience in the MMO world.

I haven't beaten players with exp pots, this is true, neither have you or anyone else for that matter, because again, they haven't been implemented yet. So really this whole discussion is guesswork at best, including your assumptions. Or are you the only one here allowed to make assumptions? I have however played against players with better gear than me, higher levels than me and skill still plays a main factor in who wins; that and ping.

Exp pots being p2w remains a matter of opinion, whether you accept it or not.

You still haven't addressed the issue of why you think zenimax should cater to the top 5% of highly competitive players, rather than the rest of the player base. In fact you seem to just pretend than anything anyone says to contradict your belief has either not been said or is not credible in your expert opinion.

No one is denying that exp potions would help you gain cp faster, people disagree about it being p2w or not and that is called an opinion. All some of us are saying is that we're ok with that, whether we use them or not. It doesn't even ultimately matter if it is p2w or not. Different people have a different degree of p2w that they are willing to accept and live with and different definitions of what they consider to be p2w.

If introducing exp boosts drives away arrogant elitist and makes room for more casual players, then I welcome them. If it allows some players to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars to have their name on a leader-board, I'm fine with that, that 5% of players have very little impact on my gameplay.

Govalon wrote: »

People who think the only way to make money with a game is to sell p2w items. Just to let you know that I also sub to a game named Final Fantasy XIV. The game is few years older than ESO and they don't sell any p2w items...

Of course it's not the only way.

But is another more and if the majority takes it do not see why not accept it, nobody is obliged to invest money, no one is forced to be the best.

They are options.

Take them or leave it at convenience.