Removal of Class system

Sintu

Do you think it would be possible or even a good idea to remove the class system and just have all skills opened up to everyone. It is really one of the things holding me back on the game from thinking I will go with it long term. I would love for it to be opened up so that all skills are available.


Anyone think this is something that could actually take place?

Drekor

I honestly think they should have done something more like Archage where you can pick and choice 3 different lines to build your own class so to speak. Would have something like Ardent flame, restoring light and dark magic and be a dps/healer hybrid. I think it's too late for this sort of thing now. I can only hope they don't add more classes.

Monkeyshoeslive

I support this

leandro.800ub17_ESO

Or create a mix one

Xithian

It would have been great if they had done that, but they stated that they wanted to give players some direction. Basically they gimped one of the best things about Elder Scrolls games to alleviate some of the "I took random skills and now my character is broken".

At this point I can't see it changing. It's a shame too, because starting a new character at this point is the equivalent of signing up for 1 month of grinding things you've already done. I've spent the last two days just theorycrafting because I want to start a new character but I don't want to make one that I'll scrap in a month.

Orizuru

Sintu wrote: »

Do you think it would be possible or even a good idea to remove the class system and just have all skills opened up to everyone. It is really one of the things holding me back on the game from thinking I will go with it long term. I would love for it to be opened up so that all skills are available.


Anyone think this is something that could actually take place?

I think this might kill any variety between different player's builds. Theorycrafters will determine which 5+1 toolbar is ideal for the given task and everyone who doesn't run that build will be subject to ridicule.

Lets not even imagine what would happen if a player could have Dark Talons, Bolt Escape, and Battle Standard all on the same toolbar.

RubyTigress

There's a tremendous amount of flexibility in the builds as it is right now. I see absolutely no reason to completely re-engineer the game to remove classes.

If you want Dragonknight skills, roll a Dragonknight.

Xilc

It would have been great if they didn't put such cliche racial benefits on each race so that being an altmer and a melee class would have you seem unintelligible and be criticized. They literally built the game up around the idea that if you don't follow through with a class that matches up with the racial benefits of each race, you suffer hard.

Sleepwalker

I'm in favor of this if... IF they can balance it properly. I can think of a few combinations that would be insanely fun, some that can be hilariously weak, and some that would be wildly overpowered. If all combinations don't work, it would just give the "I wanna play the way I wanna and still own everything" teary-eyed folk even more to whimper about.

AlexDougherty

It's pretty hard to balance if you abandon the class system, which is why most MMOs have them (another thread mentioned Acheron's Call).

I doubt they will abandon the class system, they might adjust or add to it, but to get rid of it would require a complete rewrite of the game.

Shaun98ca2

The game was originally designed to be an open class system IE classless game.

I think the current class system makes more sense. You already know WHAT you want to play so you pick the class that helps you most with the vision while still allowing to fulfill all the roles in the game.

But with that I do have gripes. Dragon Knight has an ability obsidian shield, as warding damage is my favorite way to heal in an MMO.

I would have enjoyed a Damage Warding heavy class or weapon for choice of healer. But instead I went with Templar to fulfill my healing desires and am going to be focusing on Healing Ward.

Tannakaobi

It wouldn't be impossible. WoW has changed there class system with each and every expansion. Admittedly, dumbing it down a bit more each time, but still.

But no, I don't think they should. In fact I'd like to see a couple more added. Classes keep things varied believe it or not, it would be dull and pointless if everyone could cherry pick everything. Everyone in PVP would be the same and it would ruin the game. Diversity is nice though, It's good that there is no other NB quite like mine, but with no classes at all this would be lost and there would be no roles to play.

However I would like to see more skill lines open to everyone too. They can start with Illusion, Alteration, Destruction, Conjuration, Restoration, Mysticism and also Thieves guild and dark brotherhood skill lines.

For classes I would like Bard, Beast Handler, Monk, Barbarian, Witchhunter.

This myth that TES does not have classes is just that, a myth.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Classes

The way I see things with ESO is this, remove the bugs and bots and ESO is a fantastic game. They just need so much more and then a little more on top of that! More classes, more open skills, more quests, more maps, more PVP, more bosses, more more!

Soulharvester

I think we should lose the initial 4 classes and let the choices be in a wheel like it was in skyrim. Allow spellcrafting though!

Moonchilde

The kinds of characters people build in a no-class model would not exist in any believable fantasy world. One character mashing together legendary skills that belong to warriors, wizards, rogues, and priests? This is implausible to the point of being just silly.

And why are characters like this made? To crunch numbers and mess around in the toolbox, which throws the entire basis of the fantasy medieval world into the trash. Those aren't fantasy characters, they are just experimental weapons.

Think about it - could a person become a monk a Tibetan Bon temple while deployed to active combat duty with the US Military, and sneaking out every night to do burglaries and hustle drugs? The personal background and time required to do such radically different things all at once, at a professional level, is impossible for one person.

This is why there have always been professions, jobs, castes, etc. throughout human history. You pick a path, and you walk that path, so you can get skilled enough during your lifetime to be worth something.

I say this here because in my estimation of 20 years of Elder Scrolls products, I can tell that they are creating a fairly believable medieval fantasy genre. Its not a Dragonball Z genre.

Soulharvester

I agree and disagree, I believe in a virtual world, which do not contain the same limitations we have in the real one, we should be given the freedom to explore and not be locked into a traditional class system.

Now I do agree with you that it is important to pick a path. I just believe also that we should be allowed to explore those paths and put together our character how we like it, now will we still have a healer slot for example in a group setting?

Yes and no, I have on several occasions become the group healer even though I am built to be an aoe/dd, I did spec a few into restoration for myself if I got myself in a pickle, which I do quite often!

Now I am not as good as a dedicated healer, but I can keep people barely alive enough to finish a 50k boss fight. Anything more and nope, the number just do not work and we end up relying on luck!

Just like a dedicated 1 hand tank would be a stronger tank, in my opinion, than a tank that is focused on bow, 2hand, etc. Not traditional but viable to a degree.

Each situation determines what is needed I guess in the end.

Nox_Aeterna

I support this idea.

Yes , it would take time to balance , but so does the current mess , it is better to remove it now while the game is still new and this would still be a resonable call.

Also , there is already theocrafting , people will come with the best way for class X to do Y , problem is , class X may never be like class Z doing Y.

Moonchilde wrote: »

The kinds of characters people build in a no-class model would not exist in any believable fantasy world. One character mashing together legendary skills that belong to warriors, wizards, rogues, and priests? This is implausible to the point of being just silly.

And why are characters like this made? To crunch numbers and mess around in the toolbox, which throws the entire basis of the fantasy medieval world into the trash. Those aren't fantasy characters, they are just experimental weapons.

Think about it - could a person become a monk a Tibetan Bon temple while deployed to active combat duty with the US Military, and sneaking out every night to do burglaries and hustle drugs? The personal background and time required to do such radically different things all at once, at a professional level, is impossible for one person.

This is why there have always been professions, jobs, castes, etc. throughout human history. You pick a path, and you walk that path, so you can get skilled enough during your lifetime to be worth something.

I say this here because in my estimation of 20 years of Elder Scrolls products, I can tell that they are creating a fairly believable medieval fantasy genre. Its not a Dragonball Z genre.

Have you ever played ES games?

Oblivion and Skyrim you could be a master every single skill tree and power in the game with 0 , i repeat 0 loss , granted in skyrim this came with a patch to the main game , but it is still part of the core game with 0 DLCs.

Heh , my top char in skyrim was lvl 90+ , i assure you , he was a great fighter/rogue/mage :P.

In Oblivion this was even more clear , since there were no skill points , just train the tree , my bosmer that began like a rogue ended with almost every single tree on 100 , yes , i trained most of them hah.

CapuchinSeven

There really is no balance issue at all. You simply have to slot the class you're playing and if you want to change you reslot another class (which you might need to unlock somehow). You can only have one class slotted at a time (there might even be a cool down).

Fact is, re rolling another class given the fact that I'm already forced into playing the other factions quests to gain VR ranks makes rolling an alt boring. If it wasn't for this I wouldn't feel the need to change classes on my main, I'd just roll an alt.

Quel_Drathon

A Class removal will be the death of meaningfull choices in the game. Some things must retain their meaning in order to achieve a stable flow and as balanced as possible situations. It will create a mess.......

poodlemasterb16_ESO

You have 8 slots for chars. Experiment. I have 7 in play with 4 fighters.

Sidney

Er...removing the class system? You may as well just play another game then. The entire class, skills, combat system is based off the current design. It's part of what makes the game.

Pele

I think being able to access all the class skills on one toon is a great idea. If it's possible, I hope the devs make it so.

temjiu

The Idea sounds great, and if we were still in early Alpha, it may even be a thought. Actually, earlier then that.

The problem lies in that Class design is and early development process. all the play-testing, mechanics design and game is built on this. it's not a small modular part of the game tacked on at the end. it is a pivotal pillar early in game design.

They would not only have to go back and change this design, they would have to redo everything that came after this. it is far too late in the development of the game...in all honesty, by the time a single player (alpha, beta, or whatever), gets their hands on a game, It's already too late in the development of the game to change class structure that much.

The additional burden and strain on the budget and company would put it under. This would never come to fruition.

and IMO, it's not necessarily needed. there is already more flexibility on a character by character level in this game then there is in most other MMO's. if they are going to provide more flexibility, it should be in other areas, rather then foundation mechanical changes.

Synfaer

If you remove the class system and give every character a full set of skills to choose from you would end up with a game called 'The Elder Clones'.
Classes at least add some variety to the population.
I can think of one positive to removing the class system, it would eliminate the never ending PvP OP/nerf rage.

Cogo

No!

The 4 classes is what makes some difference. In time, I wouldn't mind see a new class or 2. But a lot of work needs to go down in balance again.

And guess what, the game sort of IS classless. You can pick a class without picking a single class skill if you like.

Eris

Sintu wrote: »

Do you think it would be possible or even a good idea to remove the class system and just have all skills opened up to everyone. It is really one of the things holding me back on the game from thinking I will go with it long term. I would love for it to be opened up so that all skills are available.


Anyone think this is something that could actually take place?

I had an idea awhile back that they could create a Legendary level. It would be part of the Veteran system, gaining a Legendary level for every 10 veteran levels. The big benefit would be that each Legendary level gives you the ability to take another group of class skills. At the moment there would only be 4 legendary levels, but if they were to add classes, the Legendary levels would advance. Maybe they could make a set of pure Legendary skills for a 5th to round out 50 veteran levels worth of Legendary.

Hythrium

No, would spoil it if everybody could do everything, you get so many skill points you could literally do everything really well.

they have a fairly good balance, just a shame the games a bit of a mess right now, hopefully these will be sorted before the majority of players leave due to impatience.

Evergreen

A huge benefit to the community opening up all skills to players would be that underpowered classes like the Nightblade would not need to be fixed and overpowered classes like the Dragon Knight would not be nerfed. Everyone would truly be on equal playing ground and any needed nerfs or buffs would have a lot less controversy.

reggielee

No, I dont want a wide open list of skills to choose. I wouldnt mind an option to pay gold or have a quest for a class change on your main so you dont have to redo everything if you want to experience a different style of combat.

Resipsa131

Xilc wrote: »

It would have been great if they didn't put such cliche racial benefits on each race so that being an altmer and a melee class would have you seem unintelligible and be criticized. They literally built the game up around the idea that if you don't follow through with a class that matches up with the racial benefits of each race, you suffer hard.

Are the racials so powerful that you can't roll a competent character that doesn't specialize in using racials? I think you are going to miss what the game has to offer if you try and pigeon-hole your character into his/her racials. Maybe I'm wrong maybe my dunmer sorc should be using more flame spells.

spinedoc

Absolutely YES, I would love a classless game. The only reason to roll alts is to experience a different way to play the game, but after playing MMO's for years and years I'm sick of the inital grind to endgame. This is made exponentially worse by the fact that VR1 to VR10, which are hell levels, are basically just the other factions quests, which means you have to slog through the content again on your alt. The game is just geared towards not having classes because of this.

AlexDougherty

Evergreen wrote: »

A huge benefit to the community opening up all skills to players would be that underpowered classes like the Nightblade would not need to be fixed and overpowered classes like the Dragon Knight would not be nerfed. Everyone would truly be on equal playing ground and any needed nerfs or buffs would have a lot less controversy.

Ok, The nightblade needs reworking and the DK is slightly overpowered (but not by much, my templar isn't that far behind, and with planning my sorc should be as good as my templar). But if the skills are completely opened up, then everyone will have the same build, exactly the same build. Because any variation will just be weakening your character, and you will get trounced.