(BUG) Reflective Scale expenses reflected spell's cost

Doomstriker

It's definitely a very annoying bug, but the most infuriating thing is that I still have yet to see the devs list it as a known bug...

james_vestbergb16_ESO

Ye I wish they would atleast say something, anything. Is it a bug, is it something they feel they wanna keep? If so change the tooltip thats not hard at all.

And personally I don't feel it's overpowered in the least bit, its very visible and there's plenty of counters to it, one beeing picking a different target just like we all do when templars lay down Blazing shield. However if the skill is reflecting attacks which are not spell projectiles then ofc that is a bug aswell and doesnt really contribute to it beeing OP since that effect will be removed with the skill beeing fixed.

Please? something

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_GinaBruno

Bipolo

This is now tested... There is youtube video's (i will make my own soon i guess)

Its broken and not a single word,
nothing on PTS,
not mentioned in Know Issues

So all we are asking for is a comment on its situation, please

james_vestbergb16_ESO wrote: »

However if the skill is reflecting attacks which are not spell projectiles then ofc that is a bug aswell and doesnt really contribute to it beeing OP since that effect will be removed with the skill beeing fixed.

(see tooltip example)
DRAGON FIRE SCALE IV:
Reflects all projectiles for 4 seconds. Reflected attacks deal 35% additional damage.
New Effect:
Increases damage of reflected attacks.

Domander

It would be nice to know if it's a bug or intentional.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Bipolo wrote: »

This is now tested... There is youtube video's (i will make my own soon i guess)

Its broken and not a single word,
nothing on PTS,
not mentioned in Know Issues

So all we are asking for is a comment on its situation, please

james_vestbergb16_ESO wrote: »

However if the skill is reflecting attacks which are not spell projectiles then ofc that is a bug aswell and doesnt really contribute to it beeing OP since that effect will be removed with the skill beeing fixed.

(see tooltip example)
DRAGON FIRE SCALE IV:
Reflects all projectiles for 4 seconds. Reflected attacks deal 35% additional damage.
New Effect:
Increases damage of reflected attacks.

The amount of entitlement here is really astonishing. You people seriously expect a single skill with the possibility of near permanent upkeep to completely neuter all ranged skills of all people attacking you at any time. There is zero counterplay to this except "change your entire build to accommodate playing against this skill", which frankly couldn't be any more broken. If there was a targeted, low cost, ranged dispel, then maybe, this could have a reason to exist, but not in the current environment. And no, a 250 ultimate ability on one class doesn't count.

And no, eclipse is not in the same league. It's single target, can be cc broken and you'll be immune after that, it's not a skill that can be chaincasted to make anyone invincible at range.

Yes, the tooltip is not correct and should get changed, but that's the only change this should get.

Bashev

@‌guybrushtb16_ESO
There is some logic in your words, but most of the people just want any info from Zenimax whether the skill should be working like it works now (the tooltip has to be changed) or it is not intentional and it is a bug. The topic is almost 4 months old and still not a single word from Zenimax, except once when @ZOS_GinaBruno said that she will pass it to the dev team.

ThyIronFist

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Bipolo wrote: »

This is now tested... There is youtube video's (i will make my own soon i guess)

Its broken and not a single word,
nothing on PTS,
not mentioned in Know Issues

So all we are asking for is a comment on its situation, please

james_vestbergb16_ESO wrote: »

However if the skill is reflecting attacks which are not spell projectiles then ofc that is a bug aswell and doesnt really contribute to it beeing OP since that effect will be removed with the skill beeing fixed.

(see tooltip example)
DRAGON FIRE SCALE IV:
Reflects all projectiles for 4 seconds. Reflected attacks deal 35% additional damage.
New Effect:
Increases damage of reflected attacks.

The amount of entitlement here is really astonishing. You people seriously expect a single skill with the possibility of near permanent upkeep to completely neuter all ranged skills of all people attacking you at any time. There is zero counterplay to this except "change your entire build to accommodate playing against this skill", which frankly couldn't be any more broken. If there was a targeted, low cost, ranged dispel, then maybe, this could have a reason to exist, but not in the current environment. And no, a 250 ultimate ability on one class doesn't count.

And no, eclipse is not in the same league. It's single target, can be cc broken and you'll be immune after that, it's not a skill that can be chaincasted to make anyone invincible at range.

Yes, the tooltip is not correct and should get changed, but that's the only change this should get.

Alright you numpty, listen up, the skill has been utterly BROKEN for 3 months now and not a single word from Zenimax. I don't know if you can read but from the way you've typed your post, I don't think so.

Yes, some people may consider it powerful, and it is a powerful skill. But it costs near 400 magicka and only lasts 4 seconds. Syrabane set got changed/nerfed with the recent major patch so you can no longer have infinite magicka while keeping Reflective Scales up for 100% of the time.

Then again, people that usually killed themselves by their own reflected abilities didn't knew about it. 6 months into the game and most people now know that when a DK flaps his wings, you shouldn't use ranged attacks. But Reflective Scales is so broken now that it;

1. Does not reflect ranged abilites, mostly bow attacks will not get reflected.
2. Even IF you reflect something, it will not do any damage (mostly bow attacks) even though your addon says so, it actually does zero damage. Some of my guildies were able to confirm this.
3. And whenever you reflect an attack, whether it be a magicka or stamina based range-attack, your magicka and/or stamina WILL GET DRAINED.

It is hilarious how baddies keep on complaining about DKs. L2P and L2Counter please.

This skill has been broken for over 3 months and needs to be fixed. DKs have already recieved multiple nerfs on multiple abilties and I'm getting sick and tired of Reflective Scales not working, and the devs not giving a sh*t.

Bipolo

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Bipolo wrote: »

This is now tested... There is youtube video's (i will make my own soon i guess)

Its broken and not a single word,
nothing on PTS,
not mentioned in Know Issues

So all we are asking for is a comment on its situation, please

james_vestbergb16_ESO wrote: »

However if the skill is reflecting attacks which are not spell projectiles then ofc that is a bug aswell and doesnt really contribute to it beeing OP since that effect will be removed with the skill beeing fixed.

(see tooltip example)
DRAGON FIRE SCALE IV:
Reflects all projectiles for 4 seconds. Reflected attacks deal 35% additional damage.
New Effect:
Increases damage of reflected attacks.

Yes, the tooltip is not correct and should get changed, but that's the only change this should get.

You seriously mean Reflective Scale:
An ability that costs just under 400 magicka default, should be a 4sec vacuum that leaves Stamina and Magicka pools empty without reflecting any damage?

In this PvP environment were ranged TTK is close to instant...
Not forgetting to mention the absurd amount of ranged combatants compared to melee...

You're kidding, right?

Dragonknight Class abilities with range that exceeds 10m (were most are 5-8m):

Fiery Grip (18m) > Extended Chains morph (22m)
Stone Fist (10m) > Obsidian Shard morph (18m)

Ultimate's =
Dragon Leap (20m) > Take Flight morph (28m)


To be honest, if you can't keep the trigger finger from firing on a DK flapping huge wings and waiting for him to burn through his resources, you deserve to take that reflected damage. As a ranged character you are most likely outside DK's range of damage anyway, or should be thinking about kiting.

If you are fighting a Dragonknight built to keep flapping those wings, and you have no other counter. Well, you have just met your Rock, Paper or Scissor

Think about it...

james_vestbergb16_ESO

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Bipolo wrote: »

This is now tested... There is youtube video's (i will make my own soon i guess)

Its broken and not a single word,
nothing on PTS,
not mentioned in Know Issues

So all we are asking for is a comment on its situation, please

james_vestbergb16_ESO wrote: »

However if the skill is reflecting attacks which are not spell projectiles then ofc that is a bug aswell and doesnt really contribute to it beeing OP since that effect will be removed with the skill beeing fixed.

(see tooltip example)
DRAGON FIRE SCALE IV:
Reflects all projectiles for 4 seconds. Reflected attacks deal 35% additional damage.
New Effect:
Increases damage of reflected attacks.

The amount of entitlement here is really astonishing. You people seriously expect a single skill with the possibility of near permanent upkeep to completely neuter all ranged skills of all people attacking you at any time. There is zero counterplay to this except "change your entire build to accommodate playing against this skill", which frankly couldn't be any more broken. If there was a targeted, low cost, ranged dispel, then maybe, this could have a reason to exist, but not in the current environment. And no, a 250 ultimate ability on one class doesn't count.

And no, eclipse is not in the same league. It's single target, can be cc broken and you'll be immune after that, it's not a skill that can be chaincasted to make anyone invincible at range.

Yes, the tooltip is not correct and should get changed, but that's the only change this should get.

Tried using a none projectile attack on the DK when he casts the scales? Dont pretend there are no counters to a DK casting it. A person with a normal 2 bar setup has a range of skills, if you choose to only pack projectile attacks then who's to blame? There's literally tons of counterplay as you put it. Your entire argument is based on the fact you insist that you are entitled to be able to use ranged attacks on a player even when he uses a spell that counters that. So charge at him?

Near permanent upkeep? Stop just making stuff up, try a DK and see if u can be competetive by just casting scales over and over.

However, I must confess I Always thought the tooltip said: ranged projectile spells, which would narrow it down abit further.

Hello? @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can we please get a word on this?

ThyIronFist

Well it has been over 3 months that this skill has been bugged. ZERO COMMUNICATION from the devs. It's laughable.

This kind of sh*t together with the AoE cap problem will make me unsub in the end. Kind of sad because this game has great potential...

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey folks. Just want you to know that we are looking at this issue, and are gathering information so we can work on fixing it. We can, at the very least, confirm that this is not working as intended.

Lesspa

My impression was that this was a silent nerf back some time around may/june. Reflect is pretty OP, so it made sense.

I'm appalled it took this long for a dev response, as this issue has been brought up multiple times on different community sites.

Bipolo

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey folks. Just want you to know that we are looking at this issue, and are gathering information so we can work on fixing it. We can, at the very least, confirm that this is not working as intended.

About time, but thank you nonetheless

ThyIronFist

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey folks. Just want you to know that we are looking at this issue, and are gathering information so we can work on fixing it. We can, at the very least, confirm that this is not working as intended.

Thank you.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey folks. Just want you to know that we are looking at this issue, and are gathering information so we can work on fixing it. We can, at the very least, confirm that this is not working as intended.

Thank you

Bipolo wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Bipolo wrote: »

This is now tested... There is youtube video's (i will make my own soon i guess)

Its broken and not a single word,
nothing on PTS,
not mentioned in Know Issues

So all we are asking for is a comment on its situation, please

james_vestbergb16_ESO wrote: »

However if the skill is reflecting attacks which are not spell projectiles then ofc that is a bug aswell and doesnt really contribute to it beeing OP since that effect will be removed with the skill beeing fixed.

(see tooltip example)
DRAGON FIRE SCALE IV:
Reflects all projectiles for 4 seconds. Reflected attacks deal 35% additional damage.
New Effect:
Increases damage of reflected attacks.

Yes, the tooltip is not correct and should get changed, but that's the only change this should get.

You seriously mean Reflective Scale:
An ability that costs just under 400 magicka default, should be a 4sec vacuum that leaves Stamina and Magicka pools empty without reflecting any damage?

In this PvP environment were ranged TTK is close to instant...
Not forgetting to mention the absurd amount of ranged combatants compared to melee...

You're kidding, right?

Dragonknight Class abilities with range that exceeds 10m (were most are 5-8m):

Fiery Grip (18m) > Extended Chains morph (22m)
Stone Fist (10m) > Obsidian Shard morph (18m)

Ultimate's =
Dragon Leap (20m) > Take Flight morph (28m)


To be honest, if you can't keep the trigger finger from firing on a DK flapping huge wings and waiting for him to burn through his resources, you deserve to take that reflected damage. As a ranged character you are most likely outside DK's range of damage anyway, or should be thinking about kiting.

If you are fighting a Dragonknight built to keep flapping those wings, and you have no other counter. Well, you have just met your Rock, Paper or Scissor

Think about it...

Obsidian shard is actually 15m

But yea

themizario

Thank you!!!!!! @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Yusuf

Nice, now i know how to deal with scale-spammers

ZOS_GinaBruno

Okay guys, looks like this will be fixed when we release Update 4, which we're targeting for next week. Sorry this took so long to address, but let us know if you're still seeing issues with Reflective Scale after you try it out next week.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Okay guys, looks like this will be fixed when we release Update 4, which we're targeting for next week. Sorry this took so long to address, but let us know if you're still seeing issues with Reflective Scale after you try it out next week.

Angels sing on this day.

Bipolo

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Okay guys, looks like this will be fixed when we release Update 4, which we're targeting for next week. Sorry this took so long to address, but let us know if you're still seeing issues with Reflective Scale after you try it out next week.

/cheer

Mead is on me!

Xsorus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Okay guys, looks like this will be fixed when we release Update 4, which we're targeting for next week. Sorry this took so long to address, but let us know if you're still seeing issues with Reflective Scale after you try it out next week.

Does that include Defensive Posture as well? Since it does the same thing.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

We should hope all 3 of the reflection abilities would be fixed in update 4, since they share the same bug.

ThyIronFist

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Okay guys, looks like this will be fixed when we release Update 4, which we're targeting for next week. Sorry this took so long to address, but let us know if you're still seeing issues with Reflective Scale after you try it out next week.

Erock25

But DKs already spam this ability in combat. I can't imagine how much more powerful this 'bug fix' is going to make DKs. Watch out what you wish for DKs, this 'fix' will lead to the inevitable nerf of reflective scales.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Erock25 wrote: »

But DKs already spam this ability in combat. I can't imagine how much more powerful this 'bug fix' is going to make DKs. Watch out what you wish for DKs, this 'fix' will lead to the inevitable nerf of reflective scales.

We are literally just fixing two things that were broken: magicka will no longer be drained, and reflected projectiles will now do damage like they're supposed to.

Bashev

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

But DKs already spam this ability in combat. I can't imagine how much more powerful this 'bug fix' is going to make DKs. Watch out what you wish for DKs, this 'fix' will lead to the inevitable nerf of reflective scales.

We are literally just fixing two things that were broken: magicka will no longer be drained, and reflected projectiles will now do damage like they're supposed to.

What about the stamina drain? Because if you reflect a stamina based skill your stamina is drained by the cost of the skill that is reflected.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Bashev wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

But DKs already spam this ability in combat. I can't imagine how much more powerful this 'bug fix' is going to make DKs. Watch out what you wish for DKs, this 'fix' will lead to the inevitable nerf of reflective scales.

We are literally just fixing two things that were broken: magicka will no longer be drained, and reflected projectiles will now do damage like they're supposed to.

What about the stamina drain? Because if you reflect a stamina based skill your stamina is drained by the cost of the skill that is reflected.

Just double checked, and the fix will address both magicka and stamina drain.

Joy_Division

I really hate the whining associated with this ability being OP. It should NOT drain the DK's resources. If a player fails to see the huge wings sprout and the orange glow and fires a projectile at the DK, they deserve exactly what they get.

It last for a whole 4 seconds. Resto attack them, hit them with a sword, put a ground base spell on them, etc. It's not like there aren't any options

Erock25

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

But DKs already spam this ability in combat. I can't imagine how much more powerful this 'bug fix' is going to make DKs. Watch out what you wish for DKs, this 'fix' will lead to the inevitable nerf of reflective scales.

We are literally just fixing two things that were broken: magicka will no longer be drained, and reflected projectiles will now do damage like they're supposed to.

Fixing broken things is all well and good, but there are many MANY videos of DKs keeping this skill running for 24+ seconds at a time while reflecting many projectiles and they do not run out of resources. I believe fixing this skill will result in a huge boost in overall power of the DK class and you are just making more work for yourselves in the future when people jump on board the complain train.

Erock25

Joy_Division wrote: »

I really hate the whining associated with this ability being OP. It should NOT drain the DK's resources. If a player fails to see the huge wings sprout and the orange glow and fires a projectile at the DK, they deserve exactly what they get.

It last for a whole 4 seconds. Resto attack them, hit them with a sword, put a ground base spell on them, etc. It's not like there aren't any options

Yes if you fire on a DK who recently sprouted wings you deserve what you get. That is how it is currently and DKs still manage to use the skill very frequently while maintaining their resources.

It lasts for 4 seconds but can easily be maintained for an extended period of time even in its current bugged form. How long will DKs be able to sustain it after it is fixed? Resto heavy attacks tickle, not everyone uses a sword or ground based spell.