(BUG) Reflective Scale expenses reflected spell's cost

ThyIronFist

JLB wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

lol

just lol

Hmmm, good argumentation. And thanks, always a pleasure to keep no brainers happy.

Ah... the irony. I've already came up with my arguments in different threads, but if people keep pulling the "DKs are OP they need nerfs on everything" card, then the only thing I can do, is laugh.

JLB

ThyIronFist wrote: »

JLB wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

lol

just lol

Hmmm, good argumentation. And thanks, always a pleasure to keep no brainers happy.

Ah... the irony. I've already came up with my arguments in different threads, but if people keep pulling the "DKs are OP they need nerfs on everything" card, then the only thing I can do, is laugh.

And since you are so important I have to know whatever you said in other threats.
I don't expect you to know my argumentations about DK skills in other threats, what makes you think I should know yours? Sorry, who are you again?
Ah, the daily no-brainer.

Bipolo

Unlock all class abilities! Make it a true ES game! I want to be a Bolt Escaping, ninja Cloaking character with Reflective Scales and Sun Shield!

Nerf EVERYTHING!

Make everyone the same!


.................


Sorry, i blame the epic strong Mead I've found in Eastmarch

demonlkojipub19_ESO

JLB wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

This all reminds me of a completely silly comment about templars sun shield/blazing shield when it received the buff it really didn't need:
"Don't melee a templar"

Lol as it is to say such a thing, we can always say now:
"Don't ranged a Dragon Knight"

You cant melee Templars?? Lol.
They must be confused. The class you cant melee is DKs, in any case.
And thanks to ridiculous skills like Scales, you cant range them either.

Regarding Blazing Shield, it could only be true if you are ranging him and then jump in melee, just because of the damage bug. A WAI Blazing Shield has nothing to be worried about in melee, and anyways is way, way behind on the ridiculous damage a DK can do in melee while being the hardest rock in the game.

Scales, now that is gonna be "fixed", needs a hell of a nerf.
And it's not the only DK skill needing it.

One of your BS spamming buddies said that, not me. Since blazing shield buff its become a spam shield. Its cast just as often as scales is. In terms of power Blazing shield = Scales in terms of protecting you and returning damage, thats without its stacking bug.

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Reflective scale only reflects projectile. Use a ranged spell thats not a projectile, they exist. No entire build has nothing but projectile attacks.

Oh right, seems I totally forgot about all those incredibly strong non projectile ranged skills. Like... Uhm... Well... I think there's strife, if you happen to be a nightblade. And maybe some ground targetted aoes... And of course Resto staff heavy attack, which is a total dps *beast*. Yea, seems perfectly fine to just do that.

Thats exactly right. Including every Melee skill in the game. Scales reflects none of those. Perfect because Dragon knight is meant to get people into range of their melee range attacks. Funny how that works.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

This thread is just going to be an endless fountain of tears just like every DK thread. Funny how I don't have a problem with other Scale spamming dragon knights, because I hit them all with a sword.

Adapt.

Tankqull

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

This thread is just going to be an endless fountain of tears just like every DK thread. Funny how I don't have a problem with other Scale spamming dragon knights, because I hit them all with a sword.

Adapt.

in the progression of adapting to fight fire with fire (what nice coincident) all we have to do is reroll as another scale spamming dk?

the ability in its bug fixed state is to strong and needs to be adresses as bolt escape and other have been treated.

Grimbim

Tankqull wrote: »

in the progression of adapting to fight fire with fire (what nice coincident) all we have to do is reroll as another scale spamming dk?

the ability in its bug fixed state is to strong and needs to be adresses as bolt escape and other have been treated.

qft

Unfortunately it's pointless to appeal to reasonable arguments. Some people just aren't capable of taking a look at game mechanics beyond their own class.

JLB

Bipolo wrote: »

Nerf EVERYTHING!
Make everyone the same!

Exaggerate other's commments!
So your poor points look better!
So you don't look like an EZmoder defending EZmode skills!

Sorry, I blame the Coca-Cola I just drank.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

This thread is just going to be an endless fountain of tears just like every DK thread. Funny how I don't have a problem with other Scale spamming dragon knights, because I hit them all with a sword.

Adapt.

in the progression of adapting to fight fire with fire (what nice coincident) all we have to do is reroll as another scale spamming dk?

the ability in its bug fixed state is to strong and needs to be adresses as bolt escape and other have been treated.

No, you hit scale spamming DK with a sword, or the plethora of abilites that aren't reflectable by scales. Any class is capable of it. Is really easy once you do it a few times. Makes that precious skill slot less of a use.

Tankqull

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

This thread is just going to be an endless fountain of tears just like every DK thread. Funny how I don't have a problem with other Scale spamming dragon knights, because I hit them all with a sword.

Adapt.

in the progression of adapting to fight fire with fire (what nice coincident) all we have to do is reroll as another scale spamming dk?

the ability in its bug fixed state is to strong and needs to be adresses as bolt escape and other have been treated.

No, you hit scale spamming DK with a sword, or the plethora of abilites that aren't reflectable by scales. Any class is capable of it. Is really easy once you do it a few times. Makes that precious skill slot less of a use.

so you expect me to stand in talons, cinder, standard while fighting him as its impossible to make reasonable dmg from range, and by doing so die within seconds. and be blamed for beeing foolish fighting a dk closequarter...
in short when seeing a DK in your world turn around and look for sth else to fight unless you severly outnumber him or are a dk yourself.

Bipolo

JLB wrote: »

Bipolo wrote: »

Nerf EVERYTHING!
Make everyone the same!

Exaggerate other's commments!
So your poor points look better!
So you don't look like an EZmoder defending EZmode skills!

Sorry, I blame the Coca-Cola I just drank.

So much QQ... Maybe you are a DK at heart and should reroll one? Cause it seems like no other class is playable listening to you

Anyway, im out of this thread.

They will probably have to lock it down soon, as we got the good news of a fix we have been waiting for (only took 4 months), and as usual the thread now seems to be hijacked by "DK OP, Plz Nerf" even before the ability is fixed and gone live.

Good job

JLB

Bipolo wrote: »

JLB wrote: »

Bipolo wrote: »

Nerf EVERYTHING!
Make everyone the same!

Exaggerate other's commments!
So your poor points look better!
So you don't look like an EZmoder defending EZmode skills!

Sorry, I blame the Coca-Cola I just drank.

So much QQ... Maybe you are a DK at heart and should reroll one? Cause it seems like no other class is playable listening to you

Anyway, im out of this thread.

They will probably have to lock it down soon, as we got the good news of a fix we have been waiting for (only took 4 months), and as usual the thread now seems to be hijacked by "DK OP, Plz Nerf" even before the ability is fixed and gone live.

Good job

Yeah, I'm an EZmoder like you at heart. That's why I chose and stuck to Templar for 5 months (insert idiotic emote here).

Cogo

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

This thread is just going to be an endless fountain of tears just like every DK thread. Funny how I don't have a problem with other Scale spamming dragon knights, because I hit them all with a sword.

Adapt.

Can we make this guy moderator over threads whining about skills that works as intended and the players needs to adapt?

1000 awesome to you sir.

When a player, DK, or ANY player in Cyro. Starts to buff like mad....lights up like a christmas tree....then said player runs ALONE, into your army.

DO NOT ATTACK...for 4-5 seconds.

Very complex tactic, I know.....

guybrushtb16_ESO

Cogo wrote: »

Can we make this guy moderator over threads whining about skills that works as intended and the players needs to adapt?

1000 awesome to you sir.

When a player, DK, or ANY player in Cyro. Starts to buff like mad....lights up like a christmas tree....then said player runs ALONE, into your army.

DO NOT ATTACK...for 4-5 seconds.

Very complex tactic, I know.....

Working as intended and blatantly overpowered are not mutually exclusive.

Also, seeing this comment, you might want to edit your signature.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Can we make this guy moderator over threads whining about skills that works as intended and the players needs to adapt?

1000 awesome to you sir.

When a player, DK, or ANY player in Cyro. Starts to buff like mad....lights up like a christmas tree....then said player runs ALONE, into your army.

DO NOT ATTACK...for 4-5 seconds.

Very complex tactic, I know.....

Working as intended and blatantly overpowered are not mutually exclusive.

Also, seeing this comment, you might want to edit your signature.

If it reflected every attack it would be OP, but it doesn't. 4 seconds of selective reflecting, how hard is this to get by? Don't use the same reflectable skill over and over when you see wings. Easy.

guybrushtb16_ESO

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Can we make this guy moderator over threads whining about skills that works as intended and the players needs to adapt?

1000 awesome to you sir.

When a player, DK, or ANY player in Cyro. Starts to buff like mad....lights up like a christmas tree....then said player runs ALONE, into your army.

DO NOT ATTACK...for 4-5 seconds.

Very complex tactic, I know.....

Working as intended and blatantly overpowered are not mutually exclusive.

Also, seeing this comment, you might want to edit your signature.

If it reflected every attack it would be OP, but it doesn't. 4 seconds of selective reflecting, how hard is this to get by? Don't use the same reflectable skill over and over when you see wings. Easy.

"Selective" reflecting implies that the attacker could just change to fully viable melee mode at will, which is not possible. Contrary to what people tend to think here, ad hoc flexibility in this game is extremely limited.

Take my sorc magicka build for example, what exactly am I supposed to do? Spam destructive clench? Pull out my twohander without any stamina whatsoever? I guess I could try to bolt escape away, but that's probably it then.

In essence, having some builds performing better against a specific subset of other builds is fine - and well within the boundaries that have been established by the balance the designers seemed to strive for. However, hardcountering an entirely valid build archetype with just 1 skill slot and no downside whatsoever does just not mesh in with this, which is exactly what reflective scale in it's fixed state does.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Never gonna give up. If only 1 of your skills available to you at the time of combat isn't a projectile attack then you're asking for a DK rocking scales to ruin your build.

That is all.

Metalxead

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Never gonna give up. If only 1 of your skills available to you at the time of combat isn't a projectile attack then you're asking for a DK rocking scales to ruin your build.

That is all.

Please, list all ranged skills that are deal good vs scales, i am prepare my Notepad.

Just go rollback to 1.0, there was good balance TBH, and all who complain about vamps are need L2P... See batswarm? just AOE from range and kite them EASY!!! Also u can aoe root them from range, use blink, siege weapons etc...

Tankqull

Metalxead wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Never gonna give up. If only 1 of your skills available to you at the time of combat isn't a projectile attack then you're asking for a DK rocking scales to ruin your build.

That is all.

Please, list all ranged skills that are deal good vs scales, i am prepare my Notepad.
...

heal staff heavy attacks, deadric curse(and morphs), mage fury(and morphs), all range skills dealing ae dmg thats it.

Metalxead

...
[/quote]
all range skills dealing ae dmg thats it.
[/quote]

list please. is as say, reflect just negate 90% of ranged spells/skills.

Tankqull

lazy boy^^

elemental wall, scatter shot, arrow spray, fiery breath, volatile familiar, shattering prison, deadric mines, lightning splash, path of darkness, spear shards.

reflective light even though its theoretically an ae its still a bolt somehow and when used vrs a sole DK is especially nasty as all 3 bolts are reflected

Metalxead

Tankqull wrote: »

lazy boy^^

elemental wall, scatter shot, arrow spray, fiery breath, volatile familiar, shattering prison, deadric mines, lightning splash, path of darkness, spear shards.

Elemental wall - just move from it and u take single tick, scatter shot (magnum) can be reflected AFAIK, Arrow spray blocked (all DK use 1h+shield), breath are DK skill (we dont count DK coz of same class), Shattering prison 150 dmg for 500+ mana if u not full ight? still u can dodge roll or purdge 0 dmg. Familiar good, daedric mines LOL this is defensive skill u cant place mines one head! (daedric tomb morf are usless dmg-mana wise).
Lightnint splash lol just move from it and eat one tick!, POD same, Spear same.

Almost all of this *counters* easy to avoid just movin around!

dave_ESO12

Please, list all ranged skills that are deal good vs scales

heal staff heavy attacks, deadric curse(and morphs), mage fury(and morphs), all range skills dealing ae dmg thats it.

Mage Fury isn't reflected back, and is considered AE? Is that correct?

Tankqull

dave_ESO12 wrote: »

Please, list all ranged skills that are deal good vs scales

heal staff heavy attacks, deadric curse(and morphs), mage fury(and morphs), all range skills dealing ae dmg thats it.

Mage Fury isn't reflected back, and is considered AE? Is that correct?

its not reflected, the ae component will only happen when it kills sth or it is below 20% (could be the reason for not beeing reflective...)

Metalxead wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

lazy boy^^

elemental wall, scatter shot, arrow spray, fiery breath, volatile familiar, shattering prison, deadric mines, lightning splash, path of darkness, spear shards.

Elemental wall - just move from it and u take single tick, scatter shot (magnum) can be reflected AFAIK, Arrow spray blocked (all DK use 1h+shield), breath are DK skill (we dont count DK coz of same class), Shattering prison 150 dmg for 500+ mana if u not full ight? still u can dodge roll or purdge 0 dmg. Familiar good, daedric mines LOL this is defensive skill u cant place mines one head! (daedric tomb morf are usless dmg-mana wise).
Lightnint splash lol just move from it and eat one tick!, POD same, Spear same.

Almost all of this *counters* easy to avoid just movin around!

didn´t ment scatter shot, but volley.
and i´m absolutly on your side it needs some negative aspect for balance purposes. templars eclipse is singel target, is cleansable(cleansing ritual), purgable, you can bash out of it and in all cases it gives you cc immunity. while reflective scales has ...
all i did was giving you your requested list, without any weighting - that the skill is totally overpowered in its current form is only denied by pinkglassed DKs

Metalxead

Agree with you, and this ain't problem of DK itself, it problem in 1h+shield bein to OP weapon nowdays.. so nerf outpud DMG while u held 1h+shield will solve this problem without disturb any PVE tanking..

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

and i´m absolutly on your side it needs some negative aspect for balance purposes. templars eclipse is singel target, is cleansable(cleansing ritual), purgable, you can bash out of it and in all cases it gives you cc immunity. while reflective scales has ...

all i did was giving you your requested list, without any weighting - that the skill is totally overpowered in its current form is only denied by pinkglassed DKs

While reflective scales has.... anything melee.. ever.. and ground target AOEs (every class has access to ground AOE... which includes siege weapons) to counter it.

If you are a projectile only based build fighting a DK with reflective scales... well... Reflective Scales was meant to counter ranged projectiles. You can be a melee only build and laugh at the DK when he pops reflective scales and melts at your feet as all your hits land. That is why there isn't 1 build to rule them all.

Hell... here's an idea. So you know you have a reflective DK around... you are all ranged builds... if someone.. just 1 person.. has Fragmented Shield then have them pop that.. you all spam the crap out of your abilities.. they reflect back at your shield and the DK kills himself by reflecting.

Tankqull

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

and i´m absolutly on your side it needs some negative aspect for balance purposes. templars eclipse is singel target, is cleansable(cleansing ritual), purgable, you can bash out of it and in all cases it gives you cc immunity. while reflective scales has ...

all i did was giving you your requested list, without any weighting - that the skill is totally overpowered in its current form is only denied by pinkglassed DKs

While reflective scales has.... anything melee.. ever.. and ground target AOEs (every class has access to ground AOE... which includes siege weapons) to counter it.

If you are a projectile only based build fighting a DK with reflective scales... well... Reflective Scales was meant to counter ranged projectiles. You can be a melee only build and laugh at the DK when he pops reflective scales and melts at your feet as all your hits land. That is why there isn't 1 build to rule them all.

Hell... here's an idea. So you know you have a reflective DK around... you are all ranged builds... if someone.. just 1 person.. has Fragmented Shield then have them pop that.. you all spam the crap out of your abilities.. they reflect back at your shield and the DK kills himself by reflecting.

great idea fight a singel DK with a DK + multiple frtiends - thats a prime example of balance ...
beside that your option does no longer work as frag shield dmg is now restricted to the dk himself.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

great idea fight a singel DK with a DK + multiple frtiends - thats a prime example of balance ...
beside that your option does no longer work as frag shield dmg is now restricted to the dk himself.

Sorry, had to laugh. Your trying so desperately to make this more than it is.

On my NB I run Bow/DW.. surprise surprise right? So if I am shooting a DK with my arrows/swallow soul and I see the wings come up then I weapon swap to my DW set. Stealth and work my way towards him to melee/stun them.

If I see DKs wing-up while we are defending a resource/keep then I will lay some siege into them... oil treb, oil cata, fire ballista...

If I run into a DK that I can't melee realistically.. or lay siege into.. and all they are doing is spamming reflective scales.. then I go after another target!Once his friends are dead then me and my friends can poop on him.

If I am on my Sorc and i see it then Negate... its the cure all for all these stupid OMG OP UNKILLABLE builds. When infinite batswarm was "the thing" my group would just negate bomb the vamp and poop on them... laugh and move on.

If you are talking 1v1... if you are ranged only then well.. that is the choice you made. That DK will annoy the *** out of you and he deserves to be able to. If you wanted to counter him then you would build for it!

Every class has something that people call OP.. but they all have counters.

Metalxead

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Sorry, had to laugh. Your trying so desperately to make this more than it is.

On my NB I run Bow/DW.. surprise surprise right? So if I am shooting a DK with my arrows/swallow soul and I see the wings come up then I weapon swap to my DW set. Stealth and work my way towards him to melee/stun them.

DK place Ash cloud what u do next? Dk need 3 core skills - Reflective hard counter any range, ash cloud good counter to meele, and dragon blood to heal.

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

If I see DKs wing-up while we are defending a resource/keep then I will lay some siege into them... oil treb, oil cata, fire ballista...

If i see a 1.0 version of Vamp with Bat spam, i am just lay some siege into them... oil treb, oil cata, fire ballista... why vamps was nerfred?

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

If I run into a DK that I can't melee realistically.. or lay siege into.. and all they are doing is spamming reflective scales.. then I go after another target!

This is good, single answer for every OP in the game - "just go to another target"(C)
Imagine there are 100% of DK enemies.. what u do? Go to another game, and will be right!

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

If I am on my Sorc and i see it then Negate... its the cure all for all these stupid OMG OP UNKILLABLE builds. When infinite batswarm was "the thing" my group would just negate bomb the vamp and poop on them... laugh and move on.

Single dodge roll or break free-immovable, and dk laught at you..
I think u just played Wabbajack back then...
Even with AQV full raid we got very hard times vs 2-3 GOOD vamps..

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

If you are talking 1v1... if you are ranged only then well.. that is the choice you made. That DK will annoy the *** out of you and he deserves to be able to. If you wanted to counter him then you would build for it!

Good option, make WHOLE build & gear versus one skill? this isnt op? So dk just place 1 skill on bar (from 10.. so its 10% of skills on bar), and counter whole archetype?

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Every class has something that people call OP.. but they all have counters.

Try to touch dk while he can spam scales + ash cloud with razor armor, and with RIGHT gear, he can uptime this almost 100% of the time.

GwaynLoki

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Oh right, seems I totally forgot about all those incredibly strong non projectile ranged skills. Like... Uhm... Well... I think there's strife, if you happen to be a nightblade.

NB Strife is considered a projectile.