Waited until VR10 - PVP a complete disappointment

wrlifeboil

Dekkameron wrote: »

HarryWolfe wrote: »

someone correct me if i am wrong:
WoW had no BG's at launch?

Took WoW SEVEN MONTHS! to have battlegrounds.

Spoiled kids today.

Spoiled kids? Two words. Real World.

When you buy a new cell phone, would you pay for one that only had the same functions as a cell phone introduced 10 years ago? Of course not. You'll buy the phone with up to date functions.

lao

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Meh, fix the stupid broken VR scaling system and PvP in Cyrodiil would be fine - more like in the beta.

No one plays it now because you're VR or you might as well just go and kill yourself 20x because you'll die instantly if someone VR even looks in your direction.

As it is, level and gear matter more than skill, which is a boring snoozefest for all but the no-lifer bads that suck at PvP without the game giving them instant kills due to level/gear difference.

mad baddie spotted! oh noes u have to invest 24 hours gametime to be competitive in pvp. such wow, many horror!

lao

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Not to be mean or anything but I think the DAoC fans who are trying to re-live their DAoC glory days in eso/Cyrodiil are finding that the current generation playerbase has moved on past DAoC-style pvp. It doesn't hold the interest of video game generations brought up with the instant gratification in fps console games and in BGs/arenas.

and whats the result of that? no mmo survives its 2nd year without going f2p, not a single one. swtor,aoc,aion, warhammer even closed entirely, just to name a couple. meanwhile DAoC is still a subscription based game after 14 years. maybe its time for devs to realize that its not a good idea to cater to that modern type of gamer anymore and instead crap all over their faces and make games the oldschool way again. the way that proved to be working. the way that provides actual fun gameplay.

Always remember, you can never go back to what you thought were the good old days. In anything. Anyone who tells you otherwise and is trying to take your money at the same time is probably lying.

no there will never be an mmo on the same level of awesomeness as DAoC ever again unless some devs pull their heads out of the recta of these modern gamers and make proper games again.

Kewljag_66_ESO

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

So, I tried PvP the first week the game was live and I had my butt handed to me. So I thought, back to the drawing board....I will level up and get all the skills I need maxed then come back when I was VR10. So last night was my first night back and I have to say I am completely disappointed. After watching all of the promo videos from Zenimax showing how "amazing" PvP was going to be, I was really excited.

So for the 3 hours I was in Cy....I will give you the scenario:

1. Side #1 zergs Side #2 - Side #2 loses to Side #1 due to inferior numbers.
2. Side #2 zergs "Fort Whatever" and takes it in 5 minutes due to number advantage.
3. Rinse and repeat until you are numb of boredom
4. Have a nice day

You would think as heavily as Zenimax promoted this amazing PVP system, it wouldn't be something that was used for the last 10+ years. Hell, DAOC had the same type of system but at least they made it FUN, and how long ago was that released?

Every type of PVP is out there, it is exactly like DAOC. IF you follow the zerg you are going to play the zerg game. IF you want competative group play join a tactical group. personally i very much enjoy the solo ambush game and small skirmishes which can be found everywhere. If you look at the map you will always see a hotspot or a keep being seiged, next look for the attackers keep port, now just wait between those to points on the map and you will have endless skirmishes.

You are going to have to spend a few days before you get the hang of it but once you do you will probably really like it and start trying to acheieve PVP ranks and gear.

EDIT.. also if you like ganking or exploring, roam the enemies side and towns that give quests, you will find alot of random enemy plays out and about. you will even find them in the Dungeons

wrlifeboil

lao wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Not to be mean or anything but I think the DAoC fans who are trying to re-live their DAoC glory days in eso/Cyrodiil are finding that the current generation playerbase has moved on past DAoC-style pvp. It doesn't hold the interest of video game generations brought up with the instant gratification in fps console games and in BGs/arenas.

and whats the result of that? no mmo survives its 2nd year without going f2p, not a single one. swtor,aoc,aion, warhammer even closed entirely, just to name a couple. meanwhile DAoC is still a subscription based game after 14 years. maybe its time for devs to realize that its not a good idea to cater to that modern type of gamer anymore and instead crap all over their faces and make games the oldschool way again. the way that proved to be working. the way that provides actual fun gameplay.

Always remember, you can never go back to what you thought were the good old days. In anything. Anyone who tells you otherwise and is trying to take your money at the same time is probably lying.

no there will never be an mmo on the same level of awesomeness as DAoC ever again unless some devs pull their heads out of the recta of these modern gamers and make proper games again.

I doubt that a new and improved DAoC would be anything but a niche mmo. I don't think eso was/is aiming to be a niche mmo.

tilolyen_ESO

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

So, I tried PvP the first week the game was live and I had my butt handed to me. So I thought, back to the drawing board....I will level up and get all the skills I need maxed then come back when I was VR10. So last night was my first night back and I have to say I am completely disappointed. After watching all of the promo videos from Zenimax showing how "amazing" PvP was going to be, I was really excited.

So for the 3 hours I was in Cy....I will give you the scenario:

1. Side #1 zergs Side #2 - Side #2 loses to Side #1 due to inferior numbers.
2. Side #2 zergs "Fort Whatever" and takes it in 5 minutes due to number advantage.
3. Rinse and repeat until you are numb of boredom
4. Have a nice day

You would think as heavily as Zenimax promoted this amazing PVP system, it wouldn't be something that was used for the last 10+ years. Hell, DAOC had the same type of system but at least they made it FUN, and how long ago was that released?

Every type of PVP is out there, it is exactly like DAOC. IF you follow the zerg you are going to play the zerg game. IF you want competative group play join a tactical group. personally i very much enjoy the solo ambush game and small skirmishes which can be found everywhere. If you look at the map you will always see a hotspot or a keep being seiged, next look for the attackers keep port, now just wait between those to points on the map and you will have endless skirmishes.

You are going to have to spend a few days before you get the hang of it but once you do you will probably really like it and start trying to acheieve PVP ranks and gear.

EDIT.. also if you like ganking or exploring, roam the enemies side and towns that give quests, you will find alot of random enemy plays out and about. you will even find them in the Dungeons

Though I appreciate you trying to help, you are yet another that did not read my post and what my concerns were. I am well aware how to "PVP" and how the map works, but thank for the class on it. I gained over 10,000 points in the *insert random number* hours I was there. Let me sum it up once and for all to make it clear what I am saying. "Same thing, Different game" when it comes to PVP even though they advertised it differently as a MAIN selling point. I cannot be clearer then that.

Sociabear

Sorry, you can't face roll this game.

Groups of 4 can take out 20+ easy using tactics (no OP bat swarm ect needed)

Find a group of people, get vent, coordinate, profit. You will have some of the best fights ever that will make you continue to play.

A lot of you have not seemed to learn how to counter things...almost every skill/ult we have ran into there is a counter that negates it almost completely.

Edit: But I forgot, this new generation would rather *** and moan about everything.

tilolyen_ESO

Sociabear wrote: »

Edit: But I forgot, this new generation would rather *** and moan about everything.

This "Older" generation (me) would actually like to play what was advertised. Players like you and the others in this thread defending the PVP system to the end is WHY companies continue to put out subpar products. ZOS can polish a turd and many of you would claim it was a masterpiece work of art.

lao

wrlifeboil wrote: »

lao wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Not to be mean or anything but I think the DAoC fans who are trying to re-live their DAoC glory days in eso/Cyrodiil are finding that the current generation playerbase has moved on past DAoC-style pvp. It doesn't hold the interest of video game generations brought up with the instant gratification in fps console games and in BGs/arenas.

and whats the result of that? no mmo survives its 2nd year without going f2p, not a single one. swtor,aoc,aion, warhammer even closed entirely, just to name a couple. meanwhile DAoC is still a subscription based game after 14 years. maybe its time for devs to realize that its not a good idea to cater to that modern type of gamer anymore and instead crap all over their faces and make games the oldschool way again. the way that proved to be working. the way that provides actual fun gameplay.

Always remember, you can never go back to what you thought were the good old days. In anything. Anyone who tells you otherwise and is trying to take your money at the same time is probably lying.

no there will never be an mmo on the same level of awesomeness as DAoC ever again unless some devs pull their heads out of the recta of these modern gamers and make proper games again.

I doubt that a new and improved DAoC would be anything but a niche mmo. I don't think eso was/is aiming to be a niche mmo.

i would not dare to let any dev that is in any way responsible for any of the mmos that came after DAoC to even touch any of the mechanics of DAOC in order to "improve" them. all they have to do is be a copy paste monkey (not literally obviously but u get what i mean) and put DAoC on a modern engine.

and yea it might be niche game cos all the horriawfuls that invaded the mmo genre during the last 10 years would probably have their brain melt the very second they get confronted with an actually skillbased mmo but then again thats hardly a loss. infact i would call that a win.

and in the end that niche game would make so much more money than all the mainstream crap combined cos ppl would actually play it for more than the free month.

Sociabear

Sub par products are continually put out. Every single mmo post wow has been trash. This one has gone back outside the box a little bit with skill based pvp, not faceroll and stupid bg's.

tilolyen_ESO

Sociabear wrote: »

Sub par products are continually put out. Every single mmo post wow has been trash. This one has gone back outside the box a little bit with skill based pvp, not faceroll and stupid bg's.

So, subpar MMO's are my fault and I am an idiot because of this? LOL.....I am impressed I had more pull then I thought. If you call Zerg vs Zerg that has been done for the last 10+ years "outside the box" I have beach front property in Arizona I would like to sell you.

Sociabear

Don't play in the zerg..you have that option!

lao

Sociabear wrote: »

Sub par products are continually put out. Every single mmo post wow has been trash. This one has gone back outside the box a little bit with skill based pvp, not faceroll and stupid bg's.

WoW was the worst of them all......

Sociabear

Agree Lao, it started the downfall.

Edit: And further..a game doesn't need a million subscribers to be successful..people forget that.

joshisanonymous

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

Though I appreciate you trying to help, you are yet another that did not read my post and what my concerns were. I am well aware how to "PVP" and how the map works, but thank for the class on it. I gained over 10,000 points in the *insert random number* hours I was there. Let me sum it up once and for all to make it clear what I am saying. "Same thing, Different game" when it comes to PVP even though they advertised it differently as a MAIN selling point. I cannot be clearer then that.

Perhaps people keep making this point because you said the PvP was crap, then described PvP as "side A zergs side B, side B zergs side A back, rinse and repeat," or something to that extent. Then you mentioned it being similar to DAoC (though you said that game was fun, which implies that a game with similar options to DAoC would also be fun for you, maybe a game like ESO.. which has similar options to DAoC). That was literally all you said about why the PvP is crap and now you're getting frustrated that people think you didn't try anything other than zerging. My response was going to be much the same as what many people have said: the game is what you make of it. Although it seems that's not your complaint.

I think it's unfortunate that you don't enjoy the PvP because it'd be nice if everyone enjoyed it and stuck around, but if it has to be a niche thing for people who've been waiting 10 years for PvP similar to DAoC, then so be it. I will say that I saw all the promotional videos, too, and found exactly what was described. For whatever reason, my experience has been significantly different from yours. Everyday I try to ignore playing because I have things to do IRL but I keep jumping back online to try out all the PvP gameplay ideas that pop into my head.

I'm really not sure what you were hoping for. Something revolutionary I guess, but, in this case, something reactionary is actually pretty revolutionary. I'm not sure what else would constitute a completely new PvP experience. BGs and arenas are by definition repetitive and exist in practically every MMO. Sandbox open world PvP would've been a lot of fun, and pretty different from most modern MMOs, but also is not even close to a new idea. The factional semi-open world PvP system here isn't particularly new either, but it has only been attempted a couple times since DAoC and, IMO, those attempts were nowhere near as well done as in ESO. I mean, were you looking for something that is not only rarely done in modern MMOs (i.e. the sandbox PvP or the factional semi-open world PvP of ESO) but also has never been done before at any point in the history of MMOs? That would be great, but I'm at a loss for what that would look like and I can only assume that no game developer on the planet has figured out what that would look like either, since anything that original would surely sell.

TL;DR Your description is what leads to the responses you've gotten. I'm sorry you don't like the PvP but I for one find it to be just what the promotional videos described and really see no alternative for something even more novel.

Azarul

Nothing ticks me off more than you random people complaining about the different aspects of the game and you do not give a single piece of advice on how to make it better.

Complain all you want, but bring ideas to make it better with you or get out. Because empty complaints help no one.

tilolyen_ESO

For all those that think PVP is "working" this coming Friday / Saturday during primetime have a peek at the 10 Cy servers and see how full they are. For those saying "well they are trying to level to VR10" for the upcoming 1.1 patch, I am in 2 player guilds that have 500 members each. I would say I only see 25% of them logging in on a consistent basis, after only 5 weeks. If you consider that a success please don't open a business in the real world because you will be out of it very quickly.

joshisanonymous

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

For all those that think PVP is "working" this coming Friday / Saturday during primetime have a peek at the 10 Cy servers and see how full they are. For those saying "well they are trying to level to VR10" for the upcoming 1.1 patch, I am in 2 player guilds that have 500 members each. I would say I only see 25% of them logging in on a consistent basis, after only 5 weeks. If you consider that a success please don't open a business in the real world because you will be out of it very quickly.

So now your complaint is that Cyrodiil is empty? Not that it's unoriginal or that it's repetitive? It's getting hard to take you seriously, though I'm trying.

Yes populations aren't that great because people are leveling. I have no idea what "a consistent basis" is to you. Lots of people who are avid MMO players might log on only once every 3 days or so, maybe even just on weekends. That doesn't mean they've unsubscribed. Furthermore, the activity of players in your guilds is no indication of whether people are leveling before hitting Cyrodiil. It is an indication that it will take them longer than it apparently took you, but not an indication that they will not PvP. Even if these players who don't log on "on a consistent basis" actually are quitting, I'd expect that to be pretty normal for the launch of literally any MMO, no matter how good or bad. It stands to reason that more people want to try out a new thing than will stick around for the long term.

A better measure of whether people are leveling before hitting Cyrodiil would be looking at how many pre-VR players are regularly partaking in PvP versus VR players, or looking at how many players have reached VRs as a percentage of all the active players. Of course, that data is likely only available to Zenimax, and may account for why they're not jumping to merge servers or take other drastic measures that some forum-goers have been suggesting.

tilolyen_ESO

wrote:

"joshisanonymous;830910
So now your complaint is that Cyrodiil is empty? Not that it's unoriginal or that it's repetitive? It's getting hard to take you seriously, though I'm trying.

Ok try and follow the logic here. Cyrodil is empty because the repetitiveness and "been there don't that" syndrome. One is the symptom of the other. It's getting hard to also take you seriously, though I am trying.

EDIT: I will no longer be posting on this thread (to the joy of others no doubt) because its like beating your head against a brick wall, its going no where. Lets just say we "agree to disagree". I love the game and always been a supporter of if here and on fansites, but the culture here is not very advantageous to sharing your concerns without being personally insulted and attacked, which I have been both publicly and privately even though ZOS mods have removed the offending wording. Tootles~

amonengelb16_ESO

TESO needs more things, as mechanics and skills, which attract players not to zerg in 20 or 40 playerzergs the whole day to give underdogs a good chance. On EU campaigns I can see clustering coming pretty fast to AvA to be honest. I also think that groups which have a dedicated healer and other grouproles should be encouraged since they actually organized a group - but this doesn't happen at all.

"Type +1 to get an invite!" - 5 minutes later - "+1 zerg is full! Type +2 for second zerg!" and then they roll over and over again. It seems that big masses of players are the only intended and encouraged gameplay.

When I read stuff about TESO and all this comparision to DAoC I thought about REAL DAoC. Not permazerging and the ruleset: Numbers rule the battlefield. For now ... Encouraged zergs are not different at all from GuildWars 2. People who want to zerg could rather play GuildWars 2 for less money. Sorry, but AvA aesthetically really looks like premium content. But the gameplay isn't at all right now. "25 vs 50" or "50 vs 50" this is not premium. Its fast food and doesn't feel anything different. This is no real gameplay achievement because you still have more numbers and just faceroll the enemy.

If Zenimax reads this I really please them to encourage real gameplay achievements as 8 players being able to beat 25 players when playing really organized ... as in the old days.

lao

joshisanonymous wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

Though I appreciate you trying to help, you are yet another that did not read my post and what my concerns were. I am well aware how to "PVP" and how the map works, but thank for the class on it. I gained over 10,000 points in the *insert random number* hours I was there. Let me sum it up once and for all to make it clear what I am saying. "Same thing, Different game" when it comes to PVP even though they advertised it differently as a MAIN selling point. I cannot be clearer then that.

Perhaps people keep making this point because you said the PvP was crap, then described PvP as "side A zergs side B, side B zergs side A back, rinse and repeat," or something to that extent. Then you mentioned it being similar to DAoC (though you said that game was fun, which implies that a game with similar options to DAoC would also be fun for you, maybe a game like ESO.. which has similar options to DAoC). That was literally all you said about why the PvP is crap and now you're getting frustrated that people think you didn't try anything other than zerging. My response was going to be much the same as what many people have said: the game is what you make of it. Although it seems that's not your complaint.

I think it's unfortunate that you don't enjoy the PvP because it'd be nice if everyone enjoyed it and stuck around, but if it has to be a niche thing for people who've been waiting 10 years for PvP similar to DAoC, then so be it. I will say that I saw all the promotional videos, too, and found exactly what was described. For whatever reason, my experience has been significantly different from yours. Everyday I try to ignore playing because I have things to do IRL but I keep jumping back online to try out all the PvP gameplay ideas that pop into my head.

I'm really not sure what you were hoping for. Something revolutionary I guess, but, in this case, something reactionary is actually pretty revolutionary. I'm not sure what else would constitute a completely new PvP experience. BGs and arenas are by definition repetitive and exist in practically every MMO. Sandbox open world PvP would've been a lot of fun, and pretty different from most modern MMOs, but also is not even close to a new idea. The factional semi-open world PvP system here isn't particularly new either, but it has only been attempted a couple times since DAoC and, IMO, those attempts were nowhere near as well done as in ESO. I mean, were you looking for something that is not only rarely done in modern MMOs (i.e. the sandbox PvP or the factional semi-open world PvP of ESO) but also has never been done before at any point in the history of MMOs? That would be great, but I'm at a loss for what that would look like and I can only assume that no game developer on the planet has figured out what that would look like either, since anything that original would surely sell.

TL;DR Your description is what leads to the responses you've gotten. I'm sorry you don't like the PvP but I for one find it to be just what the promotional videos described and really see no alternative for something even more novel.

the point is this game is NOTHING like daoc. the options may be there to some extend but the problem is combat in ESO is boring noskill spamming of certain abilitys. 1v1 in daoc took 10000 times more skill than any sort of combat in ESO could. lets not even get into 8v8.

an example: in daoc u had positional styles and reactionary styles. if u were good u could land sidestuns in a 1v1 situation (big skill element) if u were good u could move in a way to avoid beeing sidestunned or to avoid letting ppl land positionals on you which left them with the anytimer which does alot less dmg. (another huge skill element) then u had reactonary styles that would require u to block/parry/evade in order to get those style chains of that would reward u with higher dmg, status effects or stuns etc. (another huge skill element)

and then lets look at eso combat. left click left click talons left click, standard - left click, left click. i could train a *** ape to play eso and he´d probably do better than 90% of the current population.

the game isnt about 1v1 combat you say? ok fine. lets look at a group example.

DAoC had proper CC that would last very long. it also had proper immunitys that would last very long. it also had different immunities for each type of CC. this means u could juggle CC on ppl which allowed u to skillfully dismantle a much bigger group of players. it also had a real interupt system that would allow the good players to seperate from the trash by positoning better. this actually rewards awareness as bad positioning would get u instakilled. then DAoC had a much more skill based healing system that actually required fast reflexes and even more overview cos u would actually have to preheal before some1 takes dmg in order to keep him alive. this alone made a huge difference between decent healers and really good ones. outside of PBAE there was no good aoes in daoc that could potentially kill stuff. that means u actually have to kill stuff with single target dmg which ofc means u have to pay attention to what target you pick.

so lets look at esos approach. every single group engagement is like talons, aoe aoe ,talons, nova, more aoe, standard. every single thing u use in group fights is a god damn aoe. there is no CC war, there is no positioning, yes even most of the frikkin heals are aoe. its absolutely awful. literally one of the worst combat systems ever to be seen in an mmo. ZERO skill ceiling and no fun at all. even SWTOR combat is better.....

none of what made DAoC combat fun and challenging applies in any form to ESO combat. its not even remotely close. its just really fkin awful design.

lao

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

So, I tried PvP the first week the game was live and I had my butt handed to me. So I thought, back to the drawing board....I will level up and get all the skills I need maxed then come back when I was VR10. So last night was my first night back and I have to say I am completely disappointed. After watching all of the promo videos from Zenimax showing how "amazing" PvP was going to be, I was really excited.

So for the 3 hours I was in Cy....I will give you the scenario:

1. Side #1 zergs Side #2 - Side #2 loses to Side #1 due to inferior numbers.
2. Side #2 zergs "Fort Whatever" and takes it in 5 minutes due to number advantage.
3. Rinse and repeat until you are numb of boredom
4. Have a nice day

You would think as heavily as Zenimax promoted this amazing PVP system, it wouldn't be something that was used for the last 10+ years. Hell, DAOC had the same type of system but at least they made it FUN, and how long ago was that released?

It's you who had more fun while playing DAOC because it was your first real PvP experience. Its nothing new ... The first experience is always more exciting.

Its gamer psychology.

UO pre-trammel days (1997ish) was the best real PVP EVER. The Pker and Dreadlords always had you fearful. Nothing will come close ever never ever.

UO was awesome yea but DAoC was better(if u can even compare them, kinda very different types of mmos) nothing in the world of mmos ever came or will ever come close to DAoC 8v8 tho.

joshisanonymous

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

Ok try and follow the logic here. Cyrodil is empty because the repetitiveness and "been there don't that" syndrome. One is the symptom of the other. It's getting hard to also take you seriously, though I am trying.

Thanks for the tongue-in-cheek response. Very mature. But yes, it's the repetitiveness. It couldn't be that it takes ~7 days played for average people just to reach VR1 combined with the fact that the game is just over a month old. Nope, it's the repetitiveness, which isn't actually repetitive since the game is what you make of it (i.e. it's only a zergfest if all you try to do is zerg). But you just said that this wasn't your complaint anyway. You're very much a moving target. Banging your head against walls seems to be harming your ability to make your point clear.

lao wrote:

the game isnt about 1v1 combat you say? ok fine. lets look at a group example.

I didn't say that actually.

If you want to talk about the depth of combat, though.. Sure, you can run around talon/banner spamming or shield bash spamming ESO, just like you could /stick a melee train in DAoC and mash 2 styles or make make a Mid bomb group where all you do is get your healer to AoE stun and get your spiritmasters to spam PBAoE. Just because there are very basic strategies to use in a game does not mean that that's literally all the combat system is made of. Even using those generally simple strategies, one can be more or less effective depending on timing and awareness. A bomb group in DAoC isn't always successful just like spamming talons doesn't always mean you'll win. (This is also comparing DAoC after at least a year of balancing versus ESO out-of-the-gate. You might recall that there were literally no immunity timers when DAoC launched, for instance. Skillz.)

NordJitsu

Get with an organized group.

I really think that's the best way to enjoy the keep sieges. If you're running with a zerg, its gonna get boring.

Also, if you're not with an organized group with TeamSpeak, then just camp transit lines or go sit in town and gank people. I love ganking in towns since its the only way to ever find small scale skill based PvP in this game.

FYI:

http://ghh.guildlaunch.com/

We're recruiting.

Theron75

Been saying it for years, and it still holds true: EvE is the last real MMO left.

OWPvP 100% of the time is the only way to have a true PvP system. Any time you create specific zones or servers, the community is going to be divided, the gameplay is going to stagnate, and players are going to leave in droves when it gets boring. And it always does. There's always a new MMO just around the corner.

These silly theme park games just can't produce enough "content" to keep most gamers engaged for more than a few months.

davidhorstub17_ESO

pvp was awesome at launch and it still is when you find it, but 60v30 isnt pvp and sitting on a treb for 10 mins isnt pvp either.

eso really needed a WSG or huttball map to keep the battleground guys around, most have already unsubbed and it will be really tough (if not impossible) to get them back.

zerging against little resistance gets old, so does cheesing people with a dozen oil pots on a bridge, and so does watching a 200 person guest army sweep the entire map in 30 mins with no way to stop them. people got bored and quit or stay away so we are left with dead campaigns making it harder and harder to find decent fights. now most people join a campaign their side completely dominates (for the scroll buffs) and only go to cyro for the daily while they sit in a zerg hammering on empty keeps or gate camp enemy spawn points.

the thrill and nonstop action of fighting on a an enemy supply line seems to be long gone.

Kewljag_66_ESO

In regards to DAOC PVP it wasnt great and the game we rember until it was about 6 months old. Thats when people were finally max level and figured out the mechanics and just generally knew how things worked in the game. People realized they made better rewards in groups. I remember some horrible imbalance, archers 2 shotting everyone, Clerics being more powerful than casters and killing entire groups of people with their AE smite. melee shadowblades (assasin) handing everyone their asses ins straiht up melee.

Now look at ESO, it basically has the same problems... as it should. Balance is being addressed, the majority of people are still trying to achieve level 50, and people are still learning the mechanics and the system. Alot of people are still use to GW2 PVP where zerg all gives the best rewards. (not case in ESO) You just have to give the game time to be great and get fixed / learned by people. Personally I really have alot of fun and it was labbelded DAOC 2 and for me it is.

tplink3r1

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Meh, fix the stupid broken VR scaling system and PvP in Cyrodiil would be fine - more like in the beta.

No one plays it now because you're VR or you might as well just go and kill yourself 20x because you'll die instantly if someone VR even looks in your direction.

As it is, level and gear matter more than skill, which is a boring snoozefest for all but the no-lifer bads that suck at PvP without the game giving them instant kills due to level/gear difference.

why do you play a -> MMORPG < - then? mmos are 90% based in character progression.
dont like it? then leave.

ZiRM

tplink3r1 wrote: »

why do you play a -> MMORPG < - then? mmos are 90% based in character progression.
dont like it? then leave.

I'm sure ZOS doesn't want this mindset and people telling others to just leave/unsubscribe. It's like your taking money out of the companies pockets.

NordJitsu

tplink3r1 wrote: »

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Meh, fix the stupid broken VR scaling system and PvP in Cyrodiil would be fine - more like in the beta.

No one plays it now because you're VR or you might as well just go and kill yourself 20x because you'll die instantly if someone VR even looks in your direction.

As it is, level and gear matter more than skill, which is a boring snoozefest for all but the no-lifer bads that suck at PvP without the game giving them instant kills due to level/gear difference.

why do you play a -> MMORPG < - then? mmos are 90% based in character progression.
dont like it? then leave.

That stance is just as silly and extreme as people who say that we need pre-determined stats for things to be balanced.

There's a middle ground. Gear and leveling should matter but they shouldn't be the only thing that matters. Currently, the system is probably scale a bit more towards gear and progression prior to VR1. After VR1, player skill matters much more (I was taking out VR10s when I was VR1 regularly.)

I pleaded with ZOS to fix this scaling system so many times throughout Beta. Preferably, it would take your choices into account. I'm not going to go into detail here, but I had proposed to them a ratio based scaling system. Ie. take your current stats at level ____ and scale them as if you were level 50. Instead, the game currently gives everyone the same stats in a very crappy template.

So your Mage is no longer a mage. Your warrior is no longer a warrior. Ect. Everyone becomes the same kind of spread too thin jack of all trades crap build.

You really can't compete until VR1 and that sucks.

This scaling system was a disaster.