Waited until VR10 - PVP a complete disappointment

Columba

look to yourself to make the pvp you want. the ingredients are there. i saw the same video, but the difference is that I am affecting the game the way that suits me, not asking that a company entertain me.

babylon

Columba wrote: »

look to yourself to make the pvp you want. the ingredients are there

That's the whole point of pvp isn't it - player generated content. If people are zerging then maybe that's what people want to do.

Columba

babylon wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

look to yourself to make the pvp you want. the ingredients are there

That's the whole point of pvp isn't it - player generated content. If people are zerging then maybe that's what people want to do.

NO one is forcing anyone to zerg though. if people hate zerging go off somewhere else. the map is huge.

babylon

Columba wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

look to yourself to make the pvp you want. the ingredients are there

That's the whole point of pvp isn't it - player generated content. If people are zerging then maybe that's what people want to do.

NO one is forcing anyone to zerg though. if people hate zerging go off somewhere else. the map is huge.

That's basically what I said.

Locke_ESO

I have to admit I'm kind of in the same boat at OP. I'm a pretty hard core PvP player in most games but my forays into Cyrodiil while not unsuccessful have generally been pretty disappointing and have not resulted in me wanting to go back that often. Above anything else I feel that the class ability balance is way out of line for a fun PvP environment. One of the things that made small group DAOC PvP so good was the role of mutually supporting classes and the requirement for good positional play. This game with its almost unlimited charge/escape spells and simplistic CC system has very little of that. They could at least give these abilities some cool down on reuse. Arcade style combat really has no long term re-playability. The Emperor bonus as it stands is also utterly ridiculous. One player should not be buffed to the point they are killing 40+ players with minimal support by just spamming their ultimate over and over (the most noticeable being Vampire swarm and Dragon Knight standard). An Emperor should be a slightly tougher player with some nice gear options not some sort of a demigod. These are already "good" players why give them this much of an advantage. Ultimate abilities themselves should be something that have a key tactical use in a fight rather than a "spam to farm" tool. There is plenty they could do to change this equation but I doubt they will.

There are also some minor things that are irritating like variable speeds on horses (how about making it so you travel at a consistent speed - maybe the fastest horse in your group?), crouch walk letting people disappear in 100% open terrain, indistinguishable guilds and in many places the blandness of the frontier lands. I also dislike how levels 10-50 are mixed with VR1-10. Sure I get it that they want people to be able to "level in PvP" but I feel like I am cutting through someone wearing paper armour fighting a sub 50 player and geared VR10s in particular can just farm these guys all day long. There are some perfectly good ways to do lower level PvP (e.g battlegrounds) that really add to the game and I cant understand why they didn't go with this option. Many people made new characters just to experience doing the battleground content in DAOC.

Nooblet

Because battlegrounds will SEVERELY limit the amount of players currently participating in Cyrodiil and make it a wasteland of nothingness. They chose to go for the 3 way war open pvp. Adding other PvP areas lead to reduced population in the "main" pvp objective.

Granted there are many things that need changes to increase the fun and re-playability.

Locke_ESO

Nooblet wrote: »

Because battlegrounds will SEVERELY limit the amount of players currently participating in Cyrodiil and make it a wasteland of nothingness. They chose to go for the 3 way war open pvp. Adding other PvP areas lead to reduced population in the "main" pvp objective.

Granted there are many things that need changes to increase the fun and re-playability.

Perhaps I should explain further. DAOC had a battleground system for players in each level range (15-20, 20-25, 25-30 and so on) up to about level 45 where the battle ground became the frontier zones (50 being the highest basic level in the game). These battlegrounds consisted of one keep in the center of a small themed area with level appropriate guards that could be captured by the different factions and they provided a break from PvE leveling as well as an introduction to PvP without getting stomped by highly geared level 50s. The end result was less people going into a situation where they didn't enjoy themselves because they were hugely out gunned and inexperienced. The focus of the game was still the level 50 pvp but it made it much less of an overwhelming experience for leveling players and if anything encouraged them to be more interested in this as end game content. Atm I only really see the majority of under 50s getting frustrated with their Cyrodiil experience and leaving or not taking part which is far more likely to damage the longevity of Cyrodiil as a good place to PvP.

Cry_Wolfe

someone correct me if i am wrong:
WoW had no BG's at launch?

Valtaya

Teevesnacks wrote: »

It's too bad we can't fully dictate how people play.

You know what we need is smaller battlegrounds with objectives where we can kick people that just want to up their kill counter

This siege pvp I tell ya, why do people need to create a zerg, is it to feel safe in numbers or something??? so sick of it, we need a 300 style bottle neck where only 1-2 players can get through and defenders can rip them apart

I mean honestly all I see is inc zerg!!! keep defense pst!!! Trash the whole system and give me warsong gulch, arathi basin & arena's with ranking boards

And I also want bigger shoulder armor

/sigh

then go play wow

Nooblet

I played DAoC for over 10 years, I know full well what battlegrounds were.

They were also not always in the game. And you were also not scaled up to level 50 when you entered PvP zones.

If you took out all the players that are under 50(vet1) from cyrodiil, It would be dead.

I see plenty of players under 50 enjoying it, including many in my guild.

The end result of battlegrounds was... People turned xp off and got templated and permanently stayed in battlegrounds, preying on those casuals looking to pvp for a bit to take a break from PvE.

The large area open world pvp will not work if players are spread thin in different battlegrounds.

Arreyanne

Ya bottlenecks would be awesome. Something that wouldn't let more than 3 -4 wide get through and could shut down an entire zerg with 5 -10 players

murklor007neb18_ESO

Well I expect PvP to be dissapointing for quite a while, until one get settled and each campaign start to get organized with a public TS and similar.

Balance issues aside, IMO the core flaw of ESO PvP is the fact that its not competetive in the community. Guilds are there but you never see them. Even if you notice a tight group of 20 peeps, you have absolutely no idea who they are! Since there are no real servers, everything is being dumped on the campaigns and PvP in order to recognize peeps in a faction.

Coming from GW2, the difference is quite noticable. In GW2, you can see when guilds engage other guilds. And its fun. Limited GvG became quite a phenomena. Even in open GvG and zerg vs zerg, you can actually tell forces apart. Like, 50 people fighting 50 other people, then oh no a highly skilled and known 15 man guild is coming, run away, run away... Sure GW2 is zergy most of the time but In ESO its always a 100 man moshpit and you have no idea who's who. Even pug groups could group up under known commanders in GW2, which was enjoyable. Every night it was like "oh is he tagging up? He's a great commander, I'll jump to that zone straight away!". This made even casual gameplay fun, because you could always expect a change of pace.

We need a way to recognize guilds and organize ourselves, plain and simple. Moshpits are fun... for a while. Only for a while.

Bromburak

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

So, I tried PvP the first week the game was live and I had my butt handed to me. So I thought, back to the drawing board....I will level up and get all the skills I need maxed then come back when I was VR10. So last night was my first night back and I have to say I am completely disappointed. After watching all of the promo videos from Zenimax showing how "amazing" PvP was going to be, I was really excited.

So for the 3 hours I was in Cy....I will give you the scenario:

1. Side #1 zergs Side #2 - Side #2 loses to Side #1 due to inferior numbers.
2. Side #2 zergs "Fort Whatever" and takes it in 5 minutes due to number advantage.
3. Rinse and repeat until you are numb of boredom
4. Have a nice day

You would think as heavily as Zenimax promoted this amazing PVP system, it wouldn't be something that was used for the last 10+ years. Hell, DAOC had the same type of system but at least they made it FUN, and how long ago was that released?

It's you who had more fun while playing DAOC because it was your first real PvP experience. Its nothing new ... The first experience is always more exciting.

Its gamer psychology.

tilolyen_ESO

Bromburak wrote: »

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

So, I tried PvP the first week the game was live and I had my butt handed to me. So I thought, back to the drawing board....I will level up and get all the skills I need maxed then come back when I was VR10. So last night was my first night back and I have to say I am completely disappointed. After watching all of the promo videos from Zenimax showing how "amazing" PvP was going to be, I was really excited.

So for the 3 hours I was in Cy....I will give you the scenario:

1. Side #1 zergs Side #2 - Side #2 loses to Side #1 due to inferior numbers.
2. Side #2 zergs "Fort Whatever" and takes it in 5 minutes due to number advantage.
3. Rinse and repeat until you are numb of boredom
4. Have a nice day

You would think as heavily as Zenimax promoted this amazing PVP system, it wouldn't be something that was used for the last 10+ years. Hell, DAOC had the same type of system but at least they made it FUN, and how long ago was that released?

It's you who had more fun while playing DAOC because it was your first real PvP experience. Its nothing new ... The first experience is always more exciting.

Its gamer psychology.

UO pre-trammel days (1997ish) was the best real PVP EVER. The Pker and Dreadlords always had you fearful. Nothing will come close ever never ever.

snowmanflvb14_ESO

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

Dalriaden wrote: »

If you're not having fun in pvp, well all I can say is find a better group.

Wow only took 2 comments before the typical troll L2P reply. Instead of blaming the player for not having fun, how about blaming the developer for having a predictable and mind numbing hamster wheel PvP system? I was in 2 very good and very large groups, but I do thank you for your input which does nothing to further this discussion.

he was not trolling you. He was explaining ways to have fun and really enjoy the pvp. As for non VR ranks being useless I beg to differ I have been pvping since I hit lvl 10 and have had alot of fun killing in there even when i was lvl 30 (non bumped up lvl and started running into vets I could still kill them if i played it right. last night we had groups working to ambush as others seiged and it was fun for all.

Razzak

Nooblet wrote: »

Because battlegrounds will SEVERELY limit the amount of players currently participating in Cyrodiil and make it a wasteland of nothingness. They chose to go for the 3 way war open pvp. Adding other PvP areas lead to reduced population in the "main" pvp objective.

Granted there are many things that need changes to increase the fun and re-playability.

Battlegrounds would be good for those that do not want zerg mentality in PvP environment. Basically, those that already avoid Cyrodiil.

AryaWythers

Not sure why there is comparison with age old games or any game for that matter...and people claiming we should be lucky when there are many problems with PvP that have yet to be fixed.

PvP'rs want some love that is show to the PvE community...nothing more!

I would shut my mouth completely if we were allowed to level at the same pace as PvE'rs though and just be happy and work around all the other issues.

Every other MMO I ever played I did PvE once through to play with a buddy and that was it...i was able to PvP and level almost on Par. Now I try to create Alts and not does it hamper me when trying to find a Campaign because locked out of the only few servers good for that Faction...but will never be able to level either. PvP should not be overlooked in any game since it has brought the downfall of so many in MMO history. I have never had any issue leveling since I started playing MMO's and feel this will drive many away instead of helping the game!

Harbingers

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

1. Side #1 zergs Side #2 - Side #2 loses to Side #1 due to inferior numbers.
2. Side #2 zergs "Fort Whatever" and takes it in 5 minutes due to number advantage.
3. Rinse and repeat until you are numb of boredom
4. Have a nice day

This is an issue, festered by vastly improperly populated servers. The game would be a lot better off with all the PvP "Guilds" spread evenly among the eight server and the strick lock-outs that were toned down for the first month tightened up nicely. Right now you got zerg on zerg action, same strats, same builds, same people crying nerf.

if they took every and evened out the servers with 2ish bars on peak we'd see some really good stuff.

Uviryth

So, how would you make the RvR better?
And dont say Battleground or Arenas, because thats no PvP, thats kiddiestuff.

What is et exactly you want?

WilliamTee

well... this thread was a very demoralising read

ShintaiDK

Love PvP.

If you dont want zerg vs zerg, you can easily avoid it.

And rememebr, all classes can stealth.

If you wish for 1vs1 only, you more or less picked the wrong game. And by wrong game I basicly mean any MMO.

Victor74

Take out 3/4 of the existing campaigns that have zero people in them and use, like, 3 only. lots of stuff should be going on in there then I would think.

pronkg

I'm loving the pvp as well.

Took me a while to get into the playstyle though.

Find a nice group to play with frequently.
Think up some good tactics to swipe the massive random zergs.
Positioning is key.


I'd like some additional features to cyrodiil. Maybe some more rewarding quests for groups. Maybe a (movable) defensive wall you can set up with a group. Synergized group attacks.

Teevesnacks

Valtaya wrote: »

Teevesnacks wrote: »

It's too bad we can't fully dictate how people play.

You know what we need is smaller battlegrounds with objectives where we can kick people that just want to up their kill counter

This siege pvp I tell ya, why do people need to create a zerg, is it to feel safe in numbers or something??? so sick of it, we need a 300 style bottle neck where only 1-2 players can get through and defenders can rip them apart

I mean honestly all I see is inc zerg!!! keep defense pst!!! Trash the whole system and give me warsong gulch, arathi basin & arena's with ranking boards

And I also want bigger shoulder armor

/sigh

then go play wow

Wow is old news, we got eso now

Kililin

pronkg wrote: »

I'm loving the pvp as well.

Took me a while to get into the playstyle though.

Find a nice group to play with frequently.
Think up some good tactics to swipe the massive random zergs.
Positioning is key.


I'd like some additional features to cyrodiil. Maybe some more rewarding quests for groups. Maybe a (movable) defensive wall you can set up with a group. Synergized group attacks.

the tactics probably will stop working with ae caps on everything, no way you can wipe a zerg with a small group afterwards. (Ofc depending on zerg size)

ShintaiDK

Kililin wrote: »

the tactics probably will stop working with ae caps on everything, no way you can wipe a zerg with a small group afterwards. (Ofc depending on zerg size)

As long as the standard human reaction is to turn and run when in danger, it will always work on some

Kaiem

Just a quick question to all those who are saying how they wish the game was more like DAoC etc. why don't you go play DAoC? The game is still running and receiving updates etc so if that is what you want it's still there.

This game has the closest pvp to DAoC of any MMO I've played in years and I'm personally enjoying it. Though that comes largely from having an organised guild who purposefully avoids zergs and looks to create our own battles and take objectives that draw enemies away from their own Zerg.

Cyrodiil provides the foundations for a range of different pvp experiences. It is down to you to go out and find the ones you enjoy, if you don't enjoy any of them then it's a shame but it's likely nothing the game does in terms of pvp will entertain you.

Jarnhand

ESO PvP is very good! And YOU make of it what YOU want!

If you do not like sergs/keepfights, do something else!
Make small groups, kill off reinforcements.
Hunt dungeons for both PvE and PvP.
Hunt books and shards.
Kill off expers.
Duo (a lot of fun, of course use voice com, or lose).
Solo.

If you want battlegrounds there are other games with BGs.
YES low levels CAN kill even VR players, its all down to luck, who gets the jump, skills, builds, keep calm etc etc.

On my lvl 37 DK I almost killed 2 VRs, killed of the caster, the NB went invis at about 5% health, and got the killing blow on me from invis.
On my lvl 17!! NB I killed a VR5(?) Templar, the second time around she came looking for me, I got her down to about 40% when she killed me.
And no, I am not a high skill player, I tend to panic a bit, and sometimes press the wrong keys etc.

They have made ESO PvP VERY GOOD, best since DAoC (in some aspects better). Even lowbies can make a difference. Of course higher levels should be more powerful, or there is no need to level = pointless dead game.

ESO PvP is what YOU make it out to be!

Pewpie

Uviryth wrote: »

So, how would you make the RvR better?
And dont say Battleground or Arenas, because thats no PvP, thats kiddiestuff.

What is et exactly you want?

I think my idea would have been nice to bring in small scale pvp to alliance war.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/97195/idea-to-make-world-more-alive-and-bring-more-small-scale-pvp-to-the-world

Razzak

Uviryth wrote: »

So, how would you make the RvR better?
And dont say Battleground or Arenas, because thats no PvP, thats kiddiestuff.

What is et exactly you want?

In way is that kiddiestuff?