Waited until VR10 - PVP a complete disappointment

Dekkameron

HarryWolfe wrote: »

someone correct me if i am wrong:
WoW had no BG's at launch?

Took WoW SEVEN MONTHS! to have battlegrounds.

Spoiled kids today.

Dekkameron

And on the note of peeps talking about their first pvp experiences ect...

My first major pvp experience was in SWG back in very early 2004. That was massive raids on enemy factions bases/cities that could last for days.

F7sus4

It's all happening because the game was designed to handle around 33% of its current traffic. This is why you're being constantly dead no matter whether it's at the black-alley or at open-field - there are just too many people around.

Thechemicals

So you consider your 3 hours in Cyrodiil an accurate observation of pvp? What i find interesting is how noone has mentioned this, you really pulled a lot of people into this thread as if you knew what you were talking about. You dont.

Hornex

Dekkameron wrote: »

HarryWolfe wrote: »

someone correct me if i am wrong:
WoW had no BG's at launch?

Took WoW SEVEN MONTHS! to have battlegrounds.

Spoiled kids today.

Indeed - vanilla WoW had no end game content at all.

jvargas150_ESO

Dalriaden wrote: »

If you're not having fun in pvp, well all I can say is find a better group.
Find an organized group in ts3, preferably ones where you have raid leads in each others ts3 and are communicating, and that know what they're doing.

Holding a fort with a 25 man force over a 50+ man force because your group knows what it is doing is extremely satisfying. Same applies when it comes to taking keeps, although with the way the oil pots right now it can be difficult.

Even a 4-5 man group can follow a zerg position itself on the reinforcement side of an enemy keep and have tons of fun picking off stragglers trying to reinforce. PvP could use a little work, bolt escape spam is annoying, Don't really understand why I can shoot someone point blank with a bolt from a ballista and they don't die but oil pots wreck people, still massive lag when in large group combat, but all in all I've been having a huge amount of fun in cyrodiil.

What happens when your same 25+ group (who knows what its doing) comes up against a 50+ group(who knows what its doing)...

I don't even have to tell you..

jvargas150_ESO

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO wrote: »

Beta was pretty fun. When everyone was generally on the same playing field. Then it all fell apart.

Cyrodiil should never have allowed PvE veterans. It should have been strictly PvP leveling, using it's own ranks/titles. That would have been great.

On top of that there were exploits after launch, and gimmick classes like the vampire completely off-kilter. Heavy travel times and poorly designed forward encampments. Not a welcoming place for new players.

Cyrodiil is a massive time sink. You run around like a headless chicken for hours, and die in a matter of seconds. Often to gloriously stealth ganks and devastatingly overpowered ranged abilities.

Elder Scrolls PvP is a gong show. Players getting bombed by trebuchets that just stand there, leaping up and down, laughing at you, is not what I consider PvP.

Couldn't have said it better myself..

Thechemicals

jvargas150_ESO wrote: »

Dalriaden wrote: »

If you're not having fun in pvp, well all I can say is find a better group.
Find an organized group in ts3, preferably ones where you have raid leads in each others ts3 and are communicating, and that know what they're doing.

Holding a fort with a 25 man force over a 50+ man force because your group knows what it is doing is extremely satisfying. Same applies when it comes to taking keeps, although with the way the oil pots right now it can be difficult.

Even a 4-5 man group can follow a zerg position itself on the reinforcement side of an enemy keep and have tons of fun picking off stragglers trying to reinforce. PvP could use a little work, bolt escape spam is annoying, Don't really understand why I can shoot someone point blank with a bolt from a ballista and they don't die but oil pots wreck people, still massive lag when in large group combat, but all in all I've been having a huge amount of fun in cyrodiil.

What happens when your same 25+ group (who knows what its doing) comes up against a 50+ group(who knows what its doing)...

I don't even have to tell you..

The smaller group changes tactics. Hit and Run, resources hits, stealth ganking, lightning strikes, starbursting sensitive spawn point keeps, etc.

You posted that remark like you were making an end all point. I am certain you didnt want an answer to that because you think their isnt one.

Electus

I agree with the OP, pvp is no fun for me at all.
To be fair I am a pve'er but I do enjoy pvp, but what they have now is really boring.
I hate to say it but WoW's BG's was probably my favorite so far. Fast action with minimal down time.

ESO's pvp is 50% running, 30% attacking a wall, 20% attacking other players.

But honestly I have no idea how to fix it, I don't want WoW BG's anymore.
The idea is great, getting huge amounts of people to attack a keep sounds like you are in a LOTR movie. But the reality is quite dull.

I am assuming they have future plans for this so I have hope. A game just having one giant pvp area is kind of unimaginative and will get old fast I'm sure they know this and are planning something, I just hope that something goes live before I hit VR10.

Kililin

Hornex wrote: »

Dekkameron wrote: »

HarryWolfe wrote: »

someone correct me if i am wrong:
WoW had no BG's at launch?

Took WoW SEVEN MONTHS! to have battlegrounds.

Spoiled kids today.

Indeed - vanilla WoW had no end game content at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD1 did not have any graphics you ungrateful gnats.

Evergreen

ZurinArctus wrote: »

Really hoping they add some sort of arena

I brought up arena before and some old lurker said "no, just no". What is wrong with arena?

zoetaz1616

I can see some of the points here, but the experience is what you make it. The zergs are a result of two things, people thinking they are part of an organized attack or they are afraid of getting killed. Time after time people just try to run away when attacked. It's supposed to be a war, confusion and fog of war dominate real world as well. There is no real penalty for dying, except your pride, but running away hurts mine more. I played a ton of Battlefield at one point is my life and learned some key things about myself: If I am losing, figure out why and adapt. Some days I get the bear, other days the bear gets me. Knowing this lets you relax and not get so angry at the system. No matter what the system, when you are dealing with real people, some experiences will be awesome and some will be really boring and disheartening. My general Cyrodill play consists of tactics with a medium sized guild(we generally avoid the zerg groups and try to defend/take resources/ambush) or I lone wolf it and try to find small groups and/or 1v1 fights. If you continually sit in the middle of a zerg and button mash, you are going to find the experience shallow at best. I do think the campaign balance needs some work as people want to go where they are winning handlely. I guested last night on a campaign to run around and do dungeons and get skyshards. After that I got in the fight. It was a campaign that my alliance was dominating and I found that less fun than being outnumbered. Getting some close balance on numbers would help the system remain more fun. My two cents.

Reenlister

eh, the PvP is an interesting thing.
I find myself more often than not just out on the scouting missions, gives me a chance to look around, find places.
The real fun comes from the chance encounter with others out doing the same sort of thing. Finding a group of 2 or a solo fellow scout turns into a fun experience.
However the massive battles just don't cut it right now. To much of the V++ heading out to do battle with the.. whatever they find.
I think it will get better though, I feel that many people are just waiting longer to enter PvP to get to the coveted V ranks.
I think also if more people would come in to start with some of the mission from the boards you would have more coming in, I don't think a lot of lower end people understand they are there, and can be a great way to get familiar with the area and earn some points. The PR so far is mostly nothing but the talk of the zerg.

tilolyen_ESO

Thechemicals wrote: »

So you consider your 3 hours in Cyrodiil an accurate observation of pvp? What i find interesting is how noone has mentioned this, you really pulled a lot of people into this thread as if you knew what you were talking about. You dont.

Obviously I know more then what you are talking about, seeing all the responses that has been garnered by this thread. I do find it interesting because you don't agree with my assessment of PvP you have to take a personal shot at me. People revert to personal attacks when they have nothing to back up their view point. Your post would hold more validity if you actually gave REASONS why you don't agree with me. I have been PvPing since 1997 with the original UO and spent 8 years as a game developer for a major online company (which will remain unnamed). The assessment I gave of the ESO PvP system didn't need me to play it for just 3 hours to give it. I could of given my opinion on it simply after 30 minutes. That is how predictable it is.......Just as your fanboism is.

BenjaminKacher_ESO

Most of PVP in EvE Online (arguably the #1 pvp MMO out there) is sitting around doing nothing... If you're not having fun pvp'ing your doing it wrong.

tilolyen_ESO

BenjaminKacher_ESO wrote: »

Most of PVP in EvE Online (arguably the #1 pvp MMO out there) is sitting around doing nothing... If you're not having fun pvp'ing Zenimax is doing it wrong.

Fixed

leandro.800ub17_ESO

For those that complain about PVP. Name one mmo that PVP is not same thing over and over

tilolyen_ESO

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

For those that complain about PVP. Name one mmo that PVP is not same thing over and over

If you actually read my posts, I am not complaining about PVP being the same over and over. I am taking issue with Zenimax hyping "theirs" as the next best thing since sliced bread releasing videos about it, and not delivering.

BenjaminKacher_ESO

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

BenjaminKacher_ESO wrote: »

Most of PVP in EvE Online (arguably the #1 pvp MMO out there) is sitting around doing nothing... If you're not having fun pvp'ing your doing it wrong.

Fixed

Oh how clever. I can't see any reasons a person as clever as you would figure out a more fun way to pvp other than the zerg blog. I have been defeated once again on the forums.

But seriously, EvE Online is about:
40% sitting around waiting
40% traveling to where you need to pvp
5% fighting
15% celebrating after fighting or slinging insults at the people you just beat before you pod them.

If your complaining about travel times in Cyrodil or boring tactics or too much time wasted grouping then YOU are not doing something right. Upgrade your horse to have speed instead of bag space... Go solo pvp while you wait to group. Camp one of the world quest givers and gank people that come along or stop to look in their bags while you wait for a group. Try stacking trap spells on doorways in keeps. Repeatedly taunt your enemies while stealthed around them. Pick off the slow people in groups (I always see a few trailing behind). If you don't like any of these go find some other way to entertain yourself in pvp.

Saying pvp is boring when all you do is zerg rush keeps is like watching the same one episode of Family Guy all day every day and saying that it's boring.

wrlifeboil

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

For those that complain about PVP. Name one mmo that PVP is not same thing over and over

If you actually read my posts, I am not complaining about PVP being the same over and over. I am taking issue with Zenimax hyping "theirs" as the next best thing since sliced bread releasing videos about it, and not delivering.

Not to be mean or anything but I think the DAoC fans who are trying to re-live their DAoC glory days in eso/Cyrodiil are finding that the current generation playerbase has moved on past DAoC-style pvp. It doesn't hold the interest of video game generations brought up with the instant gratification in fps console games and in BGs/arenas.

Always remember, you can never go back to what you thought were the good old days. In anything. Anyone who tells you otherwise and is trying to take your money at the same time is probably lying.

Nitratas

Like it was already said: form or join an organised team with voice communication. Playing that way you will not only have fun, pwn 2-5x times larger groups, sneak up onto scrolls carrier etc but you will also see how pathetic and useless are main zergs and pug teams.
I DO believe you dont have fun playing with the main zerg. Yes, that surely does feel like pingpong and numbers fight

Syndy

Kililin wrote: »

pronkg wrote: »

I'm loving the pvp as well.

Took me a while to get into the playstyle though.

Find a nice group to play with frequently.
Think up some good tactics to swipe the massive random zergs.
Positioning is key.


I'd like some additional features to cyrodiil. Maybe some more rewarding quests for groups. Maybe a (movable) defensive wall you can set up with a group. Synergized group attacks.

the tactics probably will stop working with ae caps on everything, no way you can wipe a zerg with a small group afterwards. (Ofc depending on zerg size)

There are caps on all but a handful of abilities now... I don't see capping the rest as something that will change anything that drastically.

Nooblet

There are a few things I think would improve the fun(atleast for me)

Rework the assault and support skill lines to be PvP skill points separate from your other 300 or more skill points. Include more options including much more passives. Make it a choice which things you get, not just achieve certain PvP rank and get everything.
They don't need to be super overpowered... just some minor gradual upgrades to feel like progress.

I'm not sure this one is possible.... but user interface improvements so you can clearly see who killed who(add-ons are currently horrible at this) and what you are actually getting AP for. Half the time I see AP gains, I have no idea what it was for.

Include some player stats including deaths, kills, deathblows, healing done etc. Make it public, but possible to hide from other players. Not sure how possible it would be because I think it currently counts all healing including overhealing.

Nerf to tank builds dps potential. I'm not sure if the bash fix would help the problem and perhaps it's just because its really popular right now.. but every other player is a tank that holds their block button without penalty, incredibly durable, and can dish out practically equal dps... why again should one play a glass canon type build? Should everyone be tanks? I don't believe so.

There's more but that's all for now. Granted these are my opinions and I'm aware others might not agree.

ZOS_LenaicR

Hi guys,

We've moved this thread in the Alliance War.
Please remain constructive and civil. We would like to keep this discussion open, so we encourage everyone to please be respectful of one another’s opinions.

lao

tilolyen_ESO wrote: »

So, I tried PvP the first week the game was live and I had my butt handed to me. So I thought, back to the drawing board....I will level up and get all the skills I need maxed then come back when I was VR10. So last night was my first night back and I have to say I am completely disappointed. After watching all of the promo videos from Zenimax showing how "amazing" PvP was going to be, I was really excited.

So for the 3 hours I was in Cy....I will give you the scenario:

1. Side #1 zergs Side #2 - Side #2 loses to Side #1 due to inferior numbers.
2. Side #2 zergs "Fort Whatever" and takes it in 5 minutes due to number advantage.
3. Rinse and repeat until you are numb of boredom
4. Have a nice day

You would think as heavily as Zenimax promoted this amazing PVP system, it wouldn't be something that was used for the last 10+ years. Hell, DAOC had the same type of system but at least they made it FUN, and how long ago was that released?

DAoC didnt really have that system as no1 really even cared about the keeps as they werent in any way relevant to rvr.. DAoC is superior to ESO in every single aspect but yea ur right about ur core statement.

lao

GossiTheDog wrote: »

It takes a long time to get a hang of. I'm level 9 in PVP with only a level 38 character, but I'm pretty good. Strategy, oil, siege weapon usage matter. You can defend from large zergs with just a few characters by correctly using oil.

damn i wanna multi-lol on that post. one simply doesnt cut it.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

Dekkameron wrote: »

HarryWolfe wrote: »

someone correct me if i am wrong:
WoW had no BG's at launch?

Took WoW SEVEN MONTHS! to have battlegrounds.

Spoiled kids today.

That was 10 years ago.

I had some fun in Cyrodill it felt epic fighting in a small platoon in the open expanses

That was really fun to me it happened at 1 am on Wabbajack.... the thing was that once we got to the fortress idk I quickly got bored. I wish there was more promotion to get players to separate or at least add objectives to the actual war campaign in the open world maybe add 30-20 carvans that spawn and you have to guide it to a fortress. Also make a way for the daedra to appear and if you don't shut down a dark anchor they will send waves to attack your fortress.

Imagine how epic it would be to assaulting a keep them a legion of daedra came to attack the fortress which could become legitimately Daedric controlled.

lao

Dominulf wrote: »

I mean how is THE ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE losing interest so quickly? A month after release? Now I have to waddle back to my internet friend group and hear "Bored of ESO already? I told you so."

how exactly is it surprising? it took me literally 5 mins of cyrodiil in beta to see that this is gonna happen. i even warned before this game even went live that exactly this is gonna happen. ZOS ignored it. the community called me an elitist when i said this pvp system is awful and boring cos it lacks ANY kind of skill elements and would turn out to be a boring zergfest even the randoms would get bored of within 1-2 months. owell atleast i can say i told you so all along.

ZOS im still up for hire and ill fix ur game at a moderate 70k/year. yes its actually gonna take a year considering how badly u messed it up

ChairGraveyard

Meh, fix the stupid broken VR scaling system and PvP in Cyrodiil would be fine - more like in the beta.

No one plays it now because you're VR or you might as well just go and kill yourself 20x because you'll die instantly if someone VR even looks in your direction.

As it is, level and gear matter more than skill, which is a boring snoozefest for all but the no-lifer bads that suck at PvP without the game giving them instant kills due to level/gear difference.

lao

Nooblet wrote: »

There are a few things I think would improve the fun(atleast for me)

Rework the assault and support skill lines to be PvP skill points separate from your other 300 or more skill points. Include more options including much more passives. Make it a choice which things you get, not just achieve certain PvP rank and get everything.
They don't need to be super overpowered... just some minor gradual upgrades to feel like progress.

I'm not sure this one is possible.... but user interface improvements so you can clearly see who killed who(add-ons are currently horrible at this) and what you are actually getting AP for. Half the time I see AP gains, I have no idea what it was for.

Include some player stats including deaths, kills, deathblows, healing done etc. Make it public, but possible to hide from other players. Not sure how possible it would be because I think it currently counts all healing including overhealing.

Nerf to tank builds dps potential. I'm not sure if the bash fix would help the problem and perhaps it's just because its really popular right now.. but every other player is a tank that holds their block button without penalty, incredibly durable, and can dish out practically equal dps... why again should one play a glass canon type build? Should everyone be tanks? I don't believe so.

There's more but that's all for now. Granted these are my opinions and I'm aware others might not agree.

approved.