*Facepalm* And so they buffed Bolt Escape.

Thevenin

They just (delicately) nerfed vampire - which had turned PvP into a disgusting gankfest for the better part of the first month - and managed to stealth buff the next broken spell on the list, Bolt Escape. (OK, Broken Talons and Standard of Oneshot are close behind)

Bolt Escape used to stop your Magicka regen for a couple of seconds when you used it. It hardly prevented any light-armor wearing sorcerer with a few potions on him from spamming it 8 or 9 times when they caught a whiff of danger, effectively covering ~ half the distance between two keeps within 5 seconds, but it did have a tiny little drawback to being cast all the time during combat.
Well rejoice, it doesn't anymore ! Perhaps this is their idea of giving players a tool to get out of AoE spamming zones, but they just happened to forget there are two other classes in their game ? And they wouldn't be too concerned about a spell being absolutely mandatory in PvP.


What's hidden in patch 1.1, a damage scaling increase on Talons perhaps, to compensate this direly-needed buff to Bolt Escape ?

Milky

Either I'm very tired, or half-way through the OP started talking in very strange patterns.

Raeder

And Nightblade still has around 70% of it's skills and passives not working correctly.

Not to mention the bash build that does more damage per second than ambush from stealth, or any ability at my disposal.

I cannot comprehend how they released such a broken game. I seriously haven't seen such unbalanced PvP and broken classes since defense stackers and Commando skills in SWG (back in 2003!).

Getting real close to canceling my sub.

Nox_Aeterna

Want to play this game?

Pick either sorc or DK.

You are wasting your time on the rest.

Niffo

Zenimax has a lot of work ahead for balancing and the current rate of patching glaring issues is far too slow, they need to put balance patches out every 1 to 2 weeks, not 4-6. Taking too long will end up hurting their subscription numbers.

Arreyanne

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Want to play this game?

Pick either sorc or DK.

You are wasting your time on the rest.

Ain't that the truth

Kolache

If this is true it honestly doesn't even bother me that much. The ability is broken with or without the debuff--they could make the Sorc fly with it and it wouldn't be more irritating to me.

tplink3r1

so thats zenimax logic, nerf templar, then buff everything thats already op.

ChairGraveyard

Haha "delicately" nerfed vampires? Except Bat Swarm spam can still be done, and the patch screws the other two skills *hard*.

Also don't whine about Mist Form, you can interrupt people out of it anyway. Only bads are worried about a skill you can interrupt trivially.

Raeder

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Haha "delicately" nerfed vampires? Except Bat Swarm spam can still be done, and the patch screws the other two skills *hard*.

Also don't whine about Mist Form, you can interrupt people out of it anyway. Only bads are worried about a skill you can interrupt trivially.

That only works if you can tab target them.

If 1.1 doesn't fix most of my broken Nightblade skills, I'm unsubbing. That's the end of that.

NordJitsu

Bolt Escape is not over powered in any way shape of form.

Its an escape skill. One morph gives you a moderate amount of damage. One morph gives you a moderate amount of spell absorption. Both are quite expensive.

The ability to disengage form a fight is what balances the Sorcerer's poor sustainability. They have the worst self healing abilities of any class in the game. In compensation, they get an escape skill.

Its called Bolt ESCAPE. If you couldn't Escape, the skill wouldn't be working as intended.

The magicka regen debuff was added late in the Beta process. Its was an unjust and painful nerf.

So this was a good change.

If you're having issues with Bolt Escaping mages, try any of the following:

1. Use a CC. Any kind of CC will work. Bolt Escape gives zero immunity, even mid bolt. This means Crystal Shard, Piercing Javeling, Encase, Dark Talons, Shield Charge, Bombard, Fiery Reach, ect. will all stop them from escaping.
2. Use any kind of speed buff or a horse. Several people have posted videos proving that a Bolt Escaping sorcerer can be caught via these means. I'll post one as soon as my YouTube stops giving me a 503 error. But I can also tell you that I have guildies who are in Medium Armor, with a Bow, using the Steed stone, and they are way faster than Bolt Escaping sorcs over medium to long ranges.
3. Let them go. If they run away, they are no longer part of the fight. A sorc who runs away from a siege is no longer sieging.

It can no longer be used while carrying the scroll. That was a nerf. And it was well justified.

That's the only issue with the skill.

beravinprb19_ESO

NordJitsu wrote: »

1. Use a CC. Any kind of CC will work. Bolt Escape gives zero immunity, even mid bolt. This means Crystal Shard, Piercing Javeling, Encase, Dark Talons, Shield Charge, Bombard, Fiery Reach, ect. will all stop them from escaping.

Immobilize is a CC, but Sorcerers can bolt right out of that as if it never happened. That, and to use an example, the DK stun called Stone Fist is a projectile that actually moves slower than a Sorcerer using bolt. Besides, you can't really kill an equal level player during a single stun, and any competent player will either break it or is already immune.

NordJitsu wrote: »

2. Use any kind of speed buff or a horse. Several people have posted videos proving that a Bolt Escaping sorcerer can be caught via these means. I'll post one as soon as my YouTube stops giving me a 503 error. But I can also tell you that I have guildies who are in Medium Armor, with a Bow, using the Steed stone, and they are way faster than Bolt Escaping sorcs over medium to long ranges.

Speed buffs are not exclusive to the ones doing the chasing. While I am not a Sorcerer myself, I have a friend who is. Said friend has his second bar set up with Elusive Mist and Retreating Maneuvers. Those, combined with Bolt Escape, mean very few people can catch you. That, and you can't exactly mount up and chase a Sorcerer you were just fighting as you'll be stuck in combat with them for at least a few minutes.

NordJitsu wrote: »

3. Let them go. If they run away, they are no longer part of the fight. A sorc who runs away from a siege is no longer sieging.

Let them go and they'll come back to kill you or someone else 20 seconds later. I'm just waiting for the day when a guild wises up and fields only Sorcerers. Bolt in, wipe out half a zerg, bolt out, rinse and repeat. Besides, people act like Bolt "Escape" can only be used to escape, when in fact it also makes for an excellent repositioning / chasing tool.

NordJitsu

@beravinprb19_ESO‌

Its a useful skill. I don't deny that. It is, in fact, one of the most important skills for a caster sorc since they lack the self healing of a DK, Templar, or Night Blade.

But it has many many counters. I've explained some of them above. If you're unable to use those counters, its a player skill issue. I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I'm sure you're plenty skilled in many aspects of the game. You just have yet to learn how to appropriately counter this skill. That doesn't mean counters don't exist. It means you still have room to grow as a player.

If I have to get my guild media officer to make a video demonstrating some counters, I will.

Nox_Aeterna

Mate , people in other threads are quitting , cause they feel their classes are crap near the DK/sorc , and honestly , i agree with them.

My templar is a piece of crap near a DK/sorc.

There are 3 options here really , either they nerf those classes, they buff other classes till they have an actual fair standing , or they allow people to change classes , and we will all be sorcs/DKs.

Honestly , wanna proof most players think DK/sorcs are OP? Allow class changes , i bet with you , within a few weeks tons of people will jump the wagon to those classes.

Laura

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Mate , people in other threads are quitting , cause they feel their classes are crap near the DK/sorc , and honestly , i agree with them.

My templar is a piece of crap near a DK/sorc.

There are 3 options here really , either they nerf those classes, they buff other classes till they have an actual fair standing , or they allow people to change classes , and we will all be sorcs/DKs.

Honestly , wanna proof most players think DK/sorcs are OP? Allow class changes , i bet with you , within a few weeks tons of people will jump the wagon to those classes.

Nightblades I totally get but... t... templar?

I see them ravaging things ALL the time in v8+ content almost as good as DKs.

beravinprb19_ESO

NordJitsu wrote: »

@beravinprb19_ESO‌

Its a useful skill. I don't deny that. It is, in fact, one of the most important skills for a caster sorc since they lack the self healing of a DK, Templar, or Night Blade.

But it has many many counters. I've explained some of them above. If you're unable to use those counters, its a player skill issue. I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I'm sure you're plenty skilled in many aspects of the game. You just have yet to learn how to appropriately counter this skill. That doesn't mean counters don't exist. It means you still have room to grow as a player.

If I have to get my guild media officer to make a video demonstrating some counters, I will.

Try charging onto a Sorcerer with Stampede and following up with Burning Talons some time. They can bolt right out, even without having to use Retreating Maneuvers. This is not about my level of "skill", this is about a Sorcerer escape mechanism countering an entire CC mechanic that was designed to stop them from escaping in the first place. If they had to roll out of it then I would have less of an issue, but they don't even need to do that.

Nox_Aeterna

Laura wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Mate , people in other threads are quitting , cause they feel their classes are crap near the DK/sorc , and honestly , i agree with them.

My templar is a piece of crap near a DK/sorc.

There are 3 options here really , either they nerf those classes, they buff other classes till they have an actual fair standing , or they allow people to change classes , and we will all be sorcs/DKs.

Honestly , wanna proof most players think DK/sorcs are OP? Allow class changes , i bet with you , within a few weeks tons of people will jump the wagon to those classes.

Nightblades I totally get but... t... templar?

I see them ravaging things ALL the time in v8+ content almost as good as DKs.

I give it to you , my templar is ahead of the NB , god help those people , but it is still far away from a DK mate. I would change classes in a heartbeat.

Being a templar , one could say im biased , so i would agree with you if i even saw a templar doing the same i see a DK doing ... but i dont.

Only thing i think templar got going for them is the healing staff + binding javelin + unstable core. With these 3 skills , i do manage to beat solo bosses that take cc , which does not amount to much in VR , without a problem.

I just dont see any templar going even near the fights i see a DK jumping into.

NordJitsu

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Mate , people in other threads are quitting , cause they feel their classes are crap near the DK/sorc , and honestly , i agree with them.

My templar is a piece of crap near a DK/sorc.

There are 3 options here really , either they nerf those classes, they buff other classes till they have an actual fair standing , or they allow people to change classes , and we will all be sorcs/DKs.

Honestly , wanna proof most players think DK/sorcs are OP? Allow class changes , i bet with you , within a few weeks tons of people will jump the wagon to those classes.

Asking for buffs to Sorc and NB is reasonable.

NB is getting the abilities fixed since many are bugged. I'm not sure they'll need additional buffs once those are working correctly, because they're nasty on paper.

Templar is getting some huge buffs as well. Lingering Ritual is getting a ridiculous buff, that makes it as good of a self heal as Dragons Blood. Channeling Focus (currently bugged) is getting fixed which makes it amazing.

Other than that they did say that all underused skills in general will be getting some love. That probably includes all classes except for DKs, since they are the one class without a single underwhelming skill.

MrAmadeus

So can anyone actually confirm this beside the op? I dont play a sorc so I cant, but for all I know he could be doing some serious trolling are simply not be paying attention. Im not saying you are OP but im gonna need some hard facts on the table when in aint in the patch notes! :-) even then it might be a bug or oversigt after the scroll carrying nerf

RaZaddha

NordJitsu wrote: »

@beravinprb19_ESO‌

Its a useful skill. I don't deny that. It is, in fact, one of the most important skills for a caster sorc since they lack the self healing of a DK, Templar, or Night Blade.

But it has many many counters. I've explained some of them above. If you're unable to use those counters, its a player skill issue. I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I'm sure you're plenty skilled in many aspects of the game. You just have yet to learn how to appropriately counter this skill. That doesn't mean counters don't exist. It means you still have room to grow as a player.

If I have to get my guild media officer to make a video demonstrating some counters, I will.

Then do it, shows us how to counter it.

Jarnhand

There is, and always will be a problem in a MMO, if one class have an escape skill they can use almost every time the fight does not go their way. That is clearly unbalanced, one class can not have a 'get out of jail free card' every time they are about to lose a fight.

The closes you can have such a skill, is on a pure stealther (typical insta stealth). But even there it need for it to be possible to counter, for prepared players (stealther hunters).

The magica cost of bolt escape need to be set a lot higher, so they can use it early in a fight, to get away, but once they start combat and engage, they have made a choice; fight or die! It should also be so costly that they can not spam it like they do today, that is borderline game breaking, and plain stupid.

Neither should they be able to use it when carrying a scroll/relic, ONLY running/walking should be possible with a scroll, neither stealth. The scroll bearer should be someone NEEDED to be protected, not someone warping all over the place like some pokemon.

Thevenin

Cost *3 would be a good start. It would make it a fair tradeoff : get out of jail card, but at the cost of a chunk of your DPS/CC abilities. And they could spam it 3 times instead of 9, making it possible to catch them with horses or rapid maneuvres.


And they need to undo their stealth buff.

Xaei

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Mate , people in other threads are quitting , cause they feel their classes are crap near the DK/sorc , and honestly , i agree with them.

My templar is a piece of crap near a DK/sorc.

There are 3 options here really , either they nerf those classes, they buff other classes till they have an actual fair standing , or they allow people to change classes , and we will all be sorcs/DKs.

Honestly , wanna proof most players think DK/sorcs are OP? Allow class changes , i bet with you , within a few weeks tons of people will jump the wagon to those classes.

Why not just remove classes altogether and let us choose skills from any class?

AngelofAwe

Thevenin wrote: »

Standard of Oneshot

That's funny... the description of mine says "enemies take 135 flame damage every second". They must have made a mistake with mine. T_T

Phoenix99

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

1. Use a CC. Any kind of CC will work. Bolt Escape gives zero immunity, even mid bolt. This means Crystal Shard, Piercing Javeling, Encase, Dark Talons, Shield Charge, Bombard, Fiery Reach, ect. will all stop them from escaping.

Immobilize is a CC, but Sorcerers can bolt right out of that as if it never happened. That, and to use an example, the DK stun called Stone Fist is a projectile that actually moves slower than a Sorcerer using bolt. Besides, you can't really kill an equal level player during a single stun, and any competent player will either break it or is already immune.

NordJitsu wrote: »

2. Use any kind of speed buff or a horse. Several people have posted videos proving that a Bolt Escaping sorcerer can be caught via these means. I'll post one as soon as my YouTube stops giving me a 503 error. But I can also tell you that I have guildies who are in Medium Armor, with a Bow, using the Steed stone, and they are way faster than Bolt Escaping sorcs over medium to long ranges.

Speed buffs are not exclusive to the ones doing the chasing. While I am not a Sorcerer myself, I have a friend who is. Said friend has his second bar set up with Elusive Mist and Retreating Maneuvers. Those, combined with Bolt Escape, mean very few people can catch you. That, and you can't exactly mount up and chase a Sorcerer you were just fighting as you'll be stuck in combat with them for at least a few minutes.

NordJitsu wrote: »

3. Let them go. If they run away, they are no longer part of the fight. A sorc who runs away from a siege is no longer sieging.

Let them go and they'll come back to kill you or someone else 20 seconds later. I'm just waiting for the day when a guild wises up and fields only Sorcerers. Bolt in, wipe out half a zerg, bolt out, rinse and repeat. Besides, people act like Bolt "Escape" can only be used to escape, when in fact it also makes for an excellent repositioning / chasing tool.

Very much all of this... only sorc users see no problem with bolt escape, smae like only vampire uses saw no problem with the use of mist form...

At least mist form you could have locked down with the AoE roots, like encase and talons...

Phoenix99

AngelofAwe wrote: »

Thevenin wrote: »

Standard of Oneshot

That's funny... the description of mine says "enemies take 135 flame damage every second". They must have made a mistake with mine. T_T

Yeah it's funny.

People blame standard while in fact they get AoEd by other DK spells like fire breath spam or impulse spam from destro staff while rooted and forget about purging from talons or simply rolling out...

I do agree that a tweak that would raise that cost of the ult by 25-50 points could be added though, but it's really not needed. The synergy with the vampire's mist form was making DKs real monsters as they could close gaps and escape easily, now using it for gap closing takes a large part of your magicka so you have less for other skills. The inhale is receiving some nerf in 1.1, right? So that also should not be much of an issue

Nijjion

@NordJitsu

Why should Sorcs be the only class not having to deal with the repercussions of getting caught out? Look at GW2 with the warrior, thief and mesmer all top tier classes for 1vsX in RvR... they all have mobility and get aways that other classes do not have.

1 class that has the insane ability to get away from any fight is just stupid in a RvR game when no other class can compete. If there was other mechanics for the other classes (like stealth) then it would be fine(but a very stupid game indeed with fights never ending with a death). You say it's an escape mechanic... well it being cast 1-2 times does that job... being casted 10-12 times in a row then channel your magicka back up to full in 3 seconds is just stupid.

#1 Sorcs able to blink while rooted and 5 second invulnerable makes none of these useful. Even gap closers like shield and 2h have only good for 1 blink, while you're travelling they already blinked again and then they are out of range.

#2 you can't mount up in combat and about 1-2 minutes after coming out of it.... it's a shame they nerfed the speed on mist form, only thing that could counter

#3 Didn't know you get alliance points when enemies get away ^^ Also they could just come back and even at a misfortunate time which happens a lot.

Raggok

NordJitsu wrote: »

@beravinprb19_ESO‌
But it has many many counters. I've explained some of them above. If you're unable to use those counters, its a player skill issue. I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I'm sure you're plenty skilled in many aspects of the game. You just have yet to learn how to appropriately counter this skill. That doesn't mean counters don't exist. It means you still have room to grow as a player.

If you haven't built your escape bar to counter the counters then it is a player skill issue. I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I'm sure you are a pretty skilled player in many aspects of the game. You just have yet to learn how to appropriately counter the counters to this skill. It just means that you still have room to grow as both a player and a person.

NordJitsu

@Nijjion‌

Its clear from your post that you have very limited experience with the mechanics you're trying to discuss.

Gap closers will work great in fact. This is because things like Shield Charge and Stampede apply their effect before you actually make contact. Stuns, unlike Immobilize (Talons, Bombard, Encase, ect.) are hard CC and the Sorc cannot use the ability while Stunned. Even with Soft CC, which are designed to allow you to continue using abilities, you'll notice that the root slows the target down quite a bit. This is because they lose the ability to walk in between bolts and are limited to the short distance that the skill its self takes them.

As to your broader point, you're just wrong. As I have explained, there are much much more viable routes to escaping from combat, many of which are open to all classes.

Elusive Mist is one option. I'm not sure how it will hold up after the re-balancing, but it put Bolt Escape to shame before. In Stage 4, a Vampire can cast Elusive Mist infinity times with decent magicka regen. When I was a Vamp (since cured) I could be at 50% magicka, cast Elusive Mist 5 times or so, and be back at 100% magicka. That's because you regen magicka WHILE THE SKILL IS ACTIVE. That means Elusive Mist gives you CC immunity (Bolt Escape does not), reduces incoming damage (Bolt Escape does not), affects opponents' ability to target you (Bolt Escape does not), and has no limit on number of casts and indeed allows you to RECOUP your resources while active (Bolt Escape has a finite number of casts and depletes your magicka completely.)

For non-skill based options, try the following. Pick up the Steed Stone, a Bow, and Medium Armor. Its a bonus (but not needed) if you also get "Well Fitted" traits on your gear. Bow's give you a speed boost after roll dodge. Medium Armor will reduce the cost of that roll dodge as well as the cost of sprinting. The Steed stone will increase your speed, and if some of your gear is "Divines" trait, it will increase it by a ridiculous amount.

I have a guildie using that spec and she can escape from fights much better and for much lower cost than a Bolt Escaping sorc.

So you're wrong that its in any way class limited.

And again, this skill makes up for the lack of self healing. It allows Sorcs to escape and come back to the fight. Other classes can just stay there and heal.

If they nerfed Bolt Escape, they'd have to nerf Leeching Strikes, Swallow Soul, Dragon's Blood, Lingering Ritual, and Breath of Life while making Dark Exchange insta cast.

Niffo

NordJitsu wrote: »

If they nerfed Bolt Escape, they'd have to nerf Leeching Strikes, Swallow Soul, Dragon's Blood, Lingering Ritual, and Breath of Life while making Dark Exchange insta cast.

Leeching Strikes has been nerfed, it now reduces ALL damage instead of just weapon. Swallow Soul has been nerfed it now heals for less of the damage done.

Lingering Ritual has been nerfed, they reduced the lingering heal by about 80% and increased the cost. Breath of Life cannot crit so it is not a life saving ability making it weaker than other heals that can crit.

Dragon's Blood is a Dragonknight ability and those are immune to balance changes.

alexion891ub17_ESO

So that's why I didn't notice a strain on my mana pool and could actually regenerate it in a few seconds for another bolt escape.