Sick of ZergFest PVP

Chryos

As much as I hate zerging, I suppose it's a valid tactic, sorta....

RaZaddha

Lithion wrote: »

TL;DR version: Just read the bold points lol

Noth wrote: »

Most wouldn't care at all. Even in WoW, most run Arenas and BG simply for gear. Without the gear, they'd never run them any noticeable amount.

Oh, really? I've been doing BGs and Arena in WoW for more than 5 years, and I continue to do BGs and Arena even after obtaining full PvP gear.

Why? Because it's fun to play BGs with friends, and Arenas provide a fun competitive environment.

The point of competitive play is to gain rankings or ratings, and that type of content has LONGEVITY... something that ESO currently doesn't have with Cyrodiil PvP only. How many months are you going to spend taking keeps, losing those same keeps, retaking them again, losing them again, retaking them again, etc...

I've spent YEARS doing WoW Arena because competitive PvP gameplay doesn't get boring so fast. And before anyone tells me to go back to WoW, I should let you know that I'm already planning on doing that once WoD releases lol (unless ESO can keep me interested that long).

Anyway, Zenimax should add dueling, arenas, and battlegrounds because it gives players options. If they want this game to succeed long-term, they need to give us something to do besides just Cyrodiil PvP. And I couldn't give a crap about rewards. I want those features because they're FUN. I know friends who dueled in WoW 7 days a week. It was their favorite method of playing when they couldn't participate in group PvP. I've also done Arenas with the same friends for over 4 years, and we always come back because competitive play is always challenging and exciting.

Players opposed to dueling, arenas, or battlegrounds keep saying "it will take away from Cyrodiil PvP." I know even Zenimax is using this absurd logic. Well guess what guys? You can keep Cyrodiil PvP meaningful by not offering any item rewards from duels, arenas, or battlegrounds. Like I said earlier, I did Arenas because I love the competition, not because of PHAT LEWTZ. At the very most, you should earn cosmetic rewards (like titles) from instanced PvP, but definitely no item upgrades. This way, if people truly enjoy Cyrodiil PvP, or want item rewards, then they have no reason to stop doing open-world PvP. But it also gives us other players OPTIONS (besides unsubscribing) if we dislike Cyrodiil PvP.

These same players will also use this argument: "Zenimax made it clear that this game was only going to have open-world PvP, so if you want something else, go play another game."

Well... in order for a AAA MMO like ESO to succeed long-term, it needs a significant subscriber base. And with limited PvP options, this game will lose mainstream appeal. Players who're frustrated with Cyrodiil PvP or don't enjoy it, will leave very quickly. Hell, even the players who DO enjoy it will likely become bored after a couple of months of the same old stuff.

If you're truly a fan of this game, and want Zenimax to succeed, then you should have no problem with PvP OPTIONS for players who want it. In the long-term, it will help this game succeed. But if you're too narrow-minded and selfish, you can keep telling people to "play another game." What you don't realize is that you're hurting your own game.

Lack of PvP options = losing subscribers = losing money = less developers = less content for everyone.

Zenimax is a business, first and foremost. They know they need to keep people interested in this game long-term if they want to succeed. Subscriber longevity can be achieved by giving players options.

There's room for reward-based and large-scale PvP (like Cyrodiil), competitive PvP (like Arenas), and fun/convenient PvP (like battlegrounds and duels). It can all coexist. I've seen it done before and I'm sure Zenimax can pull it off too.

I personally would love to see battlegrounds with level brackets so I can PvP with other players around my level. Right now PvP is only a viable option if you're max level. Lower level players get 3-shot by VRs, therefore it's not even remotely fun. Battlegrounds with level brackets could fix this very easily.

Let me finish by saying that I have enjoyed the game immensely so far, with the exception of Cyrodiil PvP. I WANT to play this game for many months, or even years, that's why I want Zenimax to realize that options are good.

Options are good, but you can't please everybody. It's part of every business model these days, you need to focus on a market "group". ESO is already trying to cater to many groups of mmo players, and it's not doing so great, some sacrifices have to be made, it's called the "trade-off" in business, if they have the option to fix stuff and make the content already in place better or add arenas and battlegrounds, I prefer they fix stuff first.
I got nothing against arenas and etc. I'm just telling not to hope too much around here, they can't please every player type.

"Hell, even the players who DO enjoy it will likely become bored after a couple of months of the same old stuff. "
That's BS, stop saying stuff like that, people got different tastes, and just because you get bored of Cyrodiil fast you have no proof saying every other player will also get bored of it. I have 1800 hours of GW2 WvW, I just left because theres no way to be competitive in WvW since coverage is what wins the week, not because I got bored of it, my entire guild is still in GW2 because they still find WvW very fun, despite the coverage issues.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO

One of the great successes of GW2 is server pride. WvW might be boring, but there are some servers that have really nice communities established. It's because arenanet designed to encourage that. In here, I'm not sure what to stick my neck out for? Campaign? ermmm no not really. Guilds? Nope, not when u can have your enemy in the same guild. Emperorship? Definitely not. Attachment to a certain keep? Hell no

RaZaddha

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

One of the great successes of GW2 is server pride. WvW might be boring, but there are some servers that have really nice communities established. It's because arenanet designed to encourage that. In here, I'm not sure what to stick my neck out for? Campaign? ermmm no not really. Guilds? Nope, not when u can have your enemy in the same guild. Emperorship? Definitely not. Attachment to a certain keep? Hell no

These things come with time, ZOS said they are going to make it easier to identify guilds and etc. with tabards and other stuff. People still complain that in GW2 theres little server pride, but pride is something that comes with time after playing and fighting a lot.

lao

add a variety of dyes and an emblemed cloak/shield to make it possible to identify guilds. *** tabards, gayest *** ever. just make it so that ppl from the same guild can run in same colors.

e.gamemarkb14_ESO

This game is not meant for 1v1 nor will it have arenas or 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, etc, as they have already clearly stated. Their focus is on Cyrodill, not small scale PvP like other games have.

They didn't have small scale in DAOC back in the day, things worked out just fine. You could find smaller fights constantly as more and more small groups split off to roam or try taking their own objectives, etc.

I have experienced small scale PvP in Cyrodill rather frequently, though sometimes it requires a little patience and you can often times find stragglers using the straight line paths between locations and take out the tail end of players.

Give things some time, the game is barely going into its 5th week since release, and they have a lot to review and iterate on for Cyrodiil.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

I want ESO to do good but I'm already bored of the PvP, I'm sorry but structured PvP last a lot longer since it's actually player vs player not spam AoE vs spam AoE zerg feast of boredom.

A good map would be one from the Warhammer moba that got cancelled

lao

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

I want ESO to do good but I'm already bored of the PvP, I'm sorry but structured PvP last a lot longer since it's actually player vs player not spam AoE vs spam AoE zerg feast of boredom.

A good map would be one from the Warhammer moba that got cancelled

thats a matter of game mechanics rather than arena tho. eso is not boring cos its an open world setting instead of an arena setting. its boring cos ur stuck with 6 button classes and 0 playerskill based mechanics. we have WoW interupts which require absolutely no skill AT ALL. we have a CC system that is just an awful joke.

give DAoC´s CC and interupt system and u wont ever get bored in open world pvp. obviously the whine by bads on this forum would be absolutely insane and alot of them would ragequit out of frustration cos that kinda system is way too unforgiving for generation WoW to handle but then again watching those ppl struggle is more than half of the fun.

Kypho

ZergFest? im in zerg about 5 times from 50. I team up with smaller grp or alone. Wth is this thread. Noone need to be in a zerg

beravinprb19_ESO

Kypho wrote: »

ZergFest? im in zerg about 5 times from 50. I team up with smaller grp or alone. Wth is this thread. Noone need to be in a zerg

Go ahead. Take a keep with 5 people while the enemy is actually defending.

thelg

You don't need to Zerg unless you want to its that simple

Rylana

Malediktus wrote: »

Talos didnt exist at the time of TESO, sorry

rekt

beravinprb19_ESO

thelg wrote: »

You don't need to Zerg unless you want to its that simple

If you have an alternative to zerging when it comes to taking objectives, then by all means, please share it. While small fights are a great deal of fun, they usually don't lead to taking a keep. Zergs are needed, for without them, the map would never actually change.

CapuchinSeven

lao wrote: »

im totally with you bro. ive said it in the beta already. the only way to fix cyrodiil is by deleting it completely and rebuild it without keeps/farms/lumbermills and all that other roleplay crap. then give us some proper rewards for farming alliance points. then make it so that zerging gives virtually no points at all. force ppl to small scale. force ppl to roam around. the result will be an amazing pvp game. if u give roleplayers the option to zerg around objectives they will do that. so dont.

if they then put in a proper CC system and add a couple of quickbars so we can actually have real characters that can actually do something instead of spamming the same 6 buttons over and over again this could even turn into a competitive game.

You keep using the word role-play, and I don't think you know what it means.

That aside, it's comical how players like you simply do not see that you're half of the problem.

Don't like the zerg? Don't join the zerg, don't join a high population map, don't join a zerg guild.

Our guild is a skirmish guild, we run in small groups of 5-6 and avoid the zergs, engaging small groups of reinforcements returning to the larger battle. We cut a group of 15 down a few days ago, simply by catching their back stragglers and taking down around 7 of them before the fronts had a chance to turn around and engage, by the time they did they were already scattered and soon dead. We did this with a group of 4.

A group of 4 denied the enemy 15 reinforcements to their under siege keep.

I can't even be bothered to go in to detail about the "more quick bars so we can have more than 6 abilities" comment, just honestly you're in the wrong game. Go now before you make it worse

lao

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

lao wrote: »

im totally with you bro. ive said it in the beta already. the only way to fix cyrodiil is by deleting it completely and rebuild it without keeps/farms/lumbermills and all that other roleplay crap. then give us some proper rewards for farming alliance points. then make it so that zerging gives virtually no points at all. force ppl to small scale. force ppl to roam around. the result will be an amazing pvp game. if u give roleplayers the option to zerg around objectives they will do that. so dont.

if they then put in a proper CC system and add a couple of quickbars so we can actually have real characters that can actually do something instead of spamming the same 6 buttons over and over again this could even turn into a competitive game.

You keep using the word role-play, and I don't think you know what it means.

That aside, it's comical how players like you simply do not see that you're half of the problem.

Don't like the zerg? Don't join the zerg, don't join a high population map, don't join a zerg guild.

Our guild is a skirmish guild, we run in small groups of 5-6 and avoid the zergs, engaging small groups of reinforcements returning to the larger battle. We cut a group of 15 down a few days ago, simply by catching their back stragglers and taking down around 7 of them before the fronts had a chance to turn around and engage, by the time they did they were already scattered and soon dead. We did this with a group of 4.

A group of 4 denied the enemy 15 reinforcements to their under siege keep.

I can't even be bothered to go in to detail about the "more quick bars so we can have more than 6 abilities" comment, just honestly you're in the wrong game. Go now before you make it worse

i never run with the zerg, neither am i in a zerg guild, nor will i ever be in one. dont join a high population map? well thats a problem. due to the nature of todays mmo communities its either join a high pop map or not bother with pvp at all since majority of players will run in a zerg and roleplay at keeps no matter what the population is like. and yes it is roleplaying as a proper pvper would not bother with fighting guards/walls.

roleplayers do that cos of some flawed idea of "helping the realm" what does it even matter if my faction owns every single keep on the map? i couldnt care less about it srsly. stuff like scroll bonuses etc shouldnt even be ingame as it encourages ppl to play that playstyle. joining a low pop campaign just means less stragglers to pick off as the majority will still just zerg around.

there need to be fundamental changes made to the entire system if this game ever wants to be competitive. the way it is its just another lemmings simulator. i giggle every time when i see 50 morons charging down a keep running off to the next keep and all they rly do the whole day is fight guards and walls. and the saddest part is, they actually seem to enjoy that. (atleast for now)

however that wont last, even randoms with their limited understanding of literally everything will eventually get bored of fighting immovable objects and move on to the next game where they do the exact same thing in a different graphics set cos they lack the cognitive activity to learn from past events.

if you wanna make a game that lasts for more than a year till it goes f2p u cannot make it so it pleases that type of player. u have to please the competitive crowd as those will stay for years cos unlike player vs wall, player vs player doesnt get boring if the game is difficult enough to master. in order to make it difficult to master you need to add skill elements. while its nowhere near enough adding proper quickbars would be a good start. and dont worry i have pretty much quitted the game already cos its no challenge at all and will never change. its just another random themepark mmo that stands out in no way over the other random themepark mmos that launched during the last 10 years.

ive warned of these issues during beta already and got ignored by devs. you just have to look at campaign population today across the board and compare it to release to realize ive been right all along. and we are barely past the first month. i give it 4-8 months till they are forced to go f2p. something that could have been avoided if they just listened to me in beta. but as always humans insist on beeing stubborn and fail before listening to those that have the experience and know much much better than them.

frwinters_ESO

If you hate the "zergfest" then just go. Please. Stop posting.

This game is deigned to put ARMY vs ARMY vs ARMY. It was never designed for anything else and this is how it was promoted since say one. They have already announced. What were you expecting?

We are in our first month of the game. You have to know that ZOS probably has many plans for Cyrodil, such as the Dungeon they announced is in the works. They need to see what there subs are going to be like and how there servers work the first time around. There is a lot that goes into these games that no one appreciates because they want it now now now. If you chose to leave the game and not invest your money in hopes they will do right by you that is your loss. A game like this is like an investment, its a gamble. You invest your money, keep them in business, see what they produce and move on. If you dont get a satisfied return you pull out. Give the game at least 6 months!

I think future MMO's should not have any forums at all until after they have been open more then 6 months then start taking feedback.

sSolutionSs

ESO has 0 (Zero) Competitive (skill based) Pvp accept it and deny them their sub fee's. Wildstar is a new mmo more focused on competitive pvp Lets go play that.

Locke_ESO

No it looks awful

lao

sSolutionSs wrote: »

ESO has 0 (Zero) Competitive (skill based) Pvp accept it and deny them their sub fee's. Wildstar is a new mmo more focused on competitive pvp Lets go play that.

i played wildstar beta. its awful. just another WoW clone. ive come to terms with the fact that if i want playerskill based fun combat in an mmo its either DAoC or Darkfall. there is pretty much nothing else and most likely will never be.

frwinters_ESO

No im not sick of ESO PVP. Next topic.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

sSolutionSs wrote: »

ESO has 0 (Zero) Competitive (skill based) Pvp accept it and deny them their sub fee's. Wildstar is a new mmo more focused on competitive pvp Lets go play that.

Umm actually I think ESO has a great combat set up, block and dodge isn't on a stat, skills don't have an overlay on range (wildstar) and saying 6 buttons isn't competitive is completely wrong when CS:GO , league of legends , dota 2 and other games ( who are commonly noted as the most competitive games have very few buttons.

It just sucks that I hardly get to use it. Itziz, Kesil videos both show how great this combat is in 1v1 scenariosm

TheBucket

Sounds like this isn't the game for you OP

Kingslayer

people can complain say it should be in it for whatever reason that maybe. But its been known a long time this was not going to happen. Brian wheelers latest interview stated as such. Really you have no room to moan on this one. Besides you have its soon to be rival with Small scale maybe your best suited to Shitestar.

Kevaliji

steven_shidiwenb16_ESO wrote: »

Noth wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

steven_shidiwenb16_ESO wrote: »

This game is supposed to be about PvP, but the first big update is about PvE with leaderboards and rankings for time and teams?

Where is the Rankings and scores for team PvP. The Cyrodiil points for Emperor HARDLY counts.

So, because you don't like the leader board in place, it doesn't count? Those are the leader boards, and I see no reason to have more. You can see were you stand with others in your faction, your class, and overall for the campaign. What more do you need?

He wants to feel special while not helping in the war effort at all and for only being able to handle fair fights.

If i wanted to play zerg n siege i would play an RTS. I want to play Player vs player, Not Army Vs Army.

Also i NEVER help the war effort, because i couldn't give a sh*t about it. I tend to ignore zergs moving directions and never defend a keep. I run off and find 2v1s or 1v1s. So i can test my character against others.

You all might enjoy piggybacking on the back of your factions army and getting points for doing *** all, and watching a spectacle of hundreds of people zerging. But i do not consider that PVP.

Well the lead designer for ESO PvP said himself that they wont be adding any sort of battlegrounds any time soon. They are sticking with large scale pvp (which is fine with me). If you want your small scale stuff join a cross faction guild and set up fights through that. Cyrodil can be used many ways, not just zerg fest. And im sure when they add the Imperial City you will find alot more of the action you are looking for there.

I enjoy the small scale pvp as well. "So i can test my character against others." This is one reason i wish they had a dueling system, its a great way to work out the kinks in your build. One thing i would like to see added is a group forward camp just for those long runs, fights that start out as 1v1 and end up 5v1 then your stuck running 35 miles back to where you were.., This can get a bit frustrating.

Elidas

The AoE cap will make "zergfests" an even better option now, because the more players are together the more chances to not get hit by AoE skills. If 50 players stand next to another they will be unstopable unless they fight a similar zerg.