Crafting got nerfed, As expected I Guess!! Im gutted!

Salacious

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

When Craglorn launches, we're keeping crafters in mind; your crafts will not become obsolete. We are expanding the crafting system with Craglorn so that you will be able to create Veteran Rank 11 and 12 gear.

Does this mean those who don't go to this new "group only zone" can still craft the best gear?

Tyr

Salacious wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

When Craglorn launches, we're keeping crafters in mind; your crafts will not become obsolete. We are expanding the crafting system with Craglorn so that you will be able to create Veteran Rank 11 and 12 gear.

Does this mean those who don't go to this new "group only zone" can still craft the best gear?

Obviously. You can craft VR10 gear at level 1...IF you have the mats which you're likely to find only in craglorn for VR11-12.

KerinKor

Laura wrote: »

why will people do end game content if they can just go there local crafter and get the best stuff made. It makes no sense to me, there needs to be a balance. I hope they keep that in mind.

Because for some people it's the FUN of the CHALLENGE of end-game content that matters, not just phat lewt boss drops for its e-peen value.

Can you believe it, not everyone's fixated on phat lewt like you and many others posting in this thread seem to be!

Zarec

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

When Craglorn launches, we're keeping crafters in mind; your crafts will not become obsolete. We are expanding the crafting system with Craglorn so that you will be able to create Veteran Rank 11 and 12 gear.

Those very best set bonuses should be able to be crafted. Say to unlock the set bonus you have to get all the pieces and research them. Actually make crafting a neccesary part of the game that we we can either craft the gear or grind for it. Trust me when I say....while grinding is nice....after awhile it becomes tedious (warframe anyone?)

Crafting gives people something to do besides grinding levels because eventually and rather quickly people are gonna be at max level and if you don't give them something to do like crafting or making fishing worth doing....people are gonna get bored. Take a page out of SWG's book and research their level of crafting. If you can ever make crafting as player interactive as that was...then you could rake in quite a lot of players as there was always something to do.

Right now as the game is still new people are still leveling but once a large part of the community has a lvl 50 or two, people will prob leave due to lack of things to do. Don't make the same mistake other games tend to make and think adding one or two raid type dungeons make an end game as end game is so much more. End game is the community (crafting, interacting, mentoring new players), and End Game is the environment (raids, dungeons. Exploring). You need all elements to give people options. Don't just half ass it and give us environment.

Ariane

Rammi wrote: »

"You can earn the very best loot—special set pieces that only drop from the final bosses"

Well, there are sets in game we cannot craft and I think a lot of them are even better than the crafted ones. In this sentence, I understand that we get the best set by drop, but unless they changed their minds, it will still be purple and it will have to be enhance with crafting.

I expected crafters would have a greater market by enhance things than by creating, specially because we are limited to 14 racial styles only, which will become obsolete when everybody is wearing the same daedric items >.<

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Why dont they do it like DaoC where the best gear always were a combination of artifact drops complemented by crafted gear to flesh out the best combination of bonuses for a set?

Or in other words: In some item slots drops were the best and in other item slots crafted was best.

Quaesivi

Granted, only bonus of crafting sets is that you can select the traits you have, and actually, at least for me, same level, same quality gear comparison, crafted always is a couple points better, problem is its nowhere near close to covering the humongous set bonuses. Its only worth, at least for me, is that you can craft a full set with infused trait, slap health enchants and just roll around at the same HP with tanks and such without actually putting points in health, thats all it provides.
Seriously, please, either remove crafting completely so we can just grind in content, or make crafted gear at least comparable to drop gear so we can justify spending our precious skill points on crafting, heck I sacrificed Valaste for those points.

wrlifeboil

Rammi wrote: »

I was so excited when i read from Paul Sage that Crafting was going to be the best way for people to gain the very best gear.

My immediate reaction was "I find that hard to believe" but when playing the game I found that for the most part his statement was true you really could make the very best gear and the idea of crafting stations around the map that had special trait bonus was a wonderful idea.

However that has now all changed as always with the inclusion of Craglorn and high level content. http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/04/23/creating-eso-trials

Reading this its clear to see they have moved to the standard model and gear grind fest to attain the best gear in game via high level content and his statement was only true given the slow roll out of that content. This quote said it all "You can earn the very best loot—special set pieces that only drop from the final bosses"

Im sure some people will be happy about this, I'm personally gutted as I was really looking forward to the game catering to a more player driven economy. Upgrading items for people is not crafting.

Ah well I will enjoy leveling and playing some of the content and then move on like every other MMO that falls into the same trap of catering to the wrong crowd for longevity, as they speed through content like it does not even exist.

A gutted fan!

EDIT: To be clear, I have no problem with PVE being a source for people getting the best gear my issue is with crafters not being able to do the same.

EDIT2: Also smercgames point is very valid in that without item decay and destruction of items, you can't have an effective player driven economy. Which is very true and something which should also be addressed and is really the main problem the more I think about it.

Fooled ya!

wrlifeboil

Salacious wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

When Craglorn launches, we're keeping crafters in mind; your crafts will not become obsolete. We are expanding the crafting system with Craglorn so that you will be able to create Veteran Rank 11 and 12 gear.

Does this mean those who don't go to this new "group only zone" can still craft the best gear?

Probably not. Not surprised especially about set bonuses. There was the sense last year when the devs said crafted gear would be the best that they would 'change direction' after launch.

Anyone who was familiar with raiding knew that ZOS would have to eventually cave and cater to raiders to get their $15 monthly subscriptions. That meant crafters would inevitably get screwed over either by being denied access to materials to craft end game gear or that drops from raid instances would be differentiated with certain buffs/enchantments or set bonuses. Otherwise, hard core raiders would have no reason to stick around to run the more difficult raid instances.

Kronosphere

Aenthel wrote: »

Seriously, please, either remove crafting completely so we can just grind in content, or make crafted gear at least comparable to drop gear so we can justify spending our precious skill points on crafting, heck I sacrificed Valaste for those points.

LOL. im sure im not alone in saying. once u have a billion of something its no longer that precious

Asha_Veor

Crafting is already obsolete at V5-10, the set gear that drops provides bonuses that blow all of the crafted gear out of the water.

And farming said pve sets is rather annoying, they are all bind on pickup. =_= i keep getting tanking items, and my groups tank keep getting the cloth gear =_= But back to my point. *edit to address some confusion in this thread about crafters being able to enhance gear for others, that is not the case, all the "best drop sets" are all bind on pickup, this will make everyone become a crafter just to upgrade their own gear*

None of the crafted sets can even compare to getting 25% stamina regen for the entire party (Saviors set) or 100 extra hp for the entire party (Ebon set) or 8% reduction of magicka costs for the entire party (Worm cult set)

I have not tried the 7 and 8 trait required sets yet, because of the massive overhead in research ^_^ but from what i see and read, none of them compare to party wide set bonuses, And since most if not all of V10 content is group based If ZOS wants crafting to become useful endgame, they need to add some Party wide crafting set bonuses. They don't need to match the set drops, they just need to be NEAR the same level of usefulness.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

I agree with the party bonus for crafting , looks like the crafting now is only pve oriented.

xhrit

SadisticSavior wrote: »

No Legendary gear will drop anywhere. if you want Legendary gear, you need a crafter. Simple as that.

So the best gear in the game will technically be crafted. If you don't deal with Crafters you will never get anything beyond Epic.

The issue with that is any level 1 crafter can upgrade any level gear to Legendary.

Malediktus

I dont get why people find crafting important or enjoyable. You collect some cheap materials which are worth a mere 1000 gold per stack, click a button and profit.
Researching traits is also boring but easy. You just wait x hours/days of real life time without spending any effort.
There is no reason why something easy as that should provide the best gear ingame.
Yes, getting epic and legendary tempers is a bit harder, but I heared refining VR mats provides them even more regular than hirelings and again hirelings is just waiting and hoping for luck. No skill or whatsoever required again.
Doing endgame group content should provide the best gear, the crafted gear should just bridge you there and make the content playable.

Atheris

Crafted gear should always be the best gear and by a decent amount no expections.

The gear should then be un repairable or have a life to it where every repair breaks it a little more until it is totally broken. PVP should also let players loose an item.

Alephen

marks of best crafter in game: 1) high adventure level so they can decon high level items for quick xp gains and resource returns on deconning. (low level gets no resources regardless of crafting level. 2) being able to log in at any time for 2-3 minutes to keep researches going.

personally, i would like actually crafting an item to actually matter when it comes to a crafter, i guess it is just me though. having crafting tables in level locked areas means useless low adventuring level crafters. sucks for people that craft because they actually like to make useful things.

liquid_wolf

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

When Craglorn launches, we're keeping crafters in mind; your crafts will not become obsolete. We are expanding the crafting system with Craglorn so that you will be able to create Veteran Rank 11 and 12 gear.

Thank you for that information!

Gillysan

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

Crafting was doomed as soon as they decided to not allow items to be destroyed. There is no economy if there is no demand for new items. Once you have the best equipment you are done and do not need to craft anything ever again.

The only exception to this is Alchemy since those items are consumed but weapons/armor/enchants are not. when items are not removed from the game there is no need for new items which means there is no need for a crafting system except something to do while you level and then it becomes worthless at the end unless you get specific bonuses later on for maxing them out in which case it still doesn't make an economy all it does it make you work for a specific buff.

So no matter what the "fix" is for still allowing you to craft the highest level stuff compared to dungeons, it doesn't matter because there will be an economy for it till everyone has it and then poof! crafting will be worthless again.

The only game with an actual economy I have played is EVE and that is because your ship blows up and you need to rebuild it from scratch. Every other MMO I have played crafting is complete garbage or it gives you some small crafter specific buff but like I said, thats just forcing you to do crafting work to get a buff.

So you were gutted from day 1.

This was one of my biggest concerns and in our guilds forums I said so months ago. I have never seen a games player economy even come close to comparable to EVE's.

Anastasia

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

When Craglorn launches, we're keeping crafters in mind; your crafts will not become obsolete. We are expanding the crafting system with Craglorn so that you will be able to create Veteran Rank 11 and 12 gear.

---

As always Jessica, thanks so much for jumping in here and providing us with direct information.

WOOT! Wtg Zeni. Crafting, relevant in max/capped endgame. When was the last time anyone got to enjoy THAT ;o)????????????????????????????????

Maverick827

Most people do not want to play a game where things break forever, at least not things that take a considerable amount of time to (re)obtain. If I could easily craft up a brand new set of gear when the old one wore out, say, about how easy it current is to craft greens/blues, I might not mind things breaking permanently.

But if I spend so much time crafting a full legendary set, and it gets destroyed...I'd probably just quit, or I'd quit before it even happened knowing that was the inevitable outcome.

I say this as an avid Shadowbane fan, the MMO that died essentially because people quit after their towns were destroyed/taken. Gear could be destroyed permanently in that game, too, but for the most part it was extremely easy to get.

UserT123

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

When Craglorn launches, we're keeping crafters in mind; your crafts will not become obsolete. We are expanding the crafting system with Craglorn so that you will be able to create Veteran Rank 11 and 12 gear.

As it stands right now, crafting is already bordering "obsolete" due to the craft-able sets being, for the most part, worse than the sets you find from dungeons etc. Why not allow the crafters to learn ALL the sets in the game, even the dungeon drops, so that they can (provided they have found the complete 5/5 set) research/craft the sets that people actually want. Currently leveling crafting is only useful so that people can upgrade the quality of the items they find. Very few people (end game) actually want any of the available crafted sets.

Rammi

I hope not!

Malediktus wrote: »

I dont get why people find crafting important or enjoyable. You collect some cheap materials which are worth a mere 1000 gold per stack, click a button and profit.
Researching traits is also boring but easy. You just wait x hours/days of real life time without spending any effort.
There is no reason why something easy as that should provide the best gear ingame.
Yes, getting epic and legendary tempers is a bit harder, but I heared refining VR mats provides them even more regular than hirelings and again hirelings is just waiting and hoping for luck. No skill or whatsoever required again.
Doing endgame group content should provide the best gear, the crafted gear should just bridge you there and make the content playable.

Because your the type of player that gets bored and moves on after being the Ubermensh and defeating all the badiezzzz (All your base are belong to us, im sure is your favorite song). Skill is subjective as there are different types of skills. There really is little skill in MMOs as its largely a numbers game and if you wanted a skill based game go play a FPS which is more twitch based.

As always the power player, or the player with the big e--peen misses the point.

MMOs are more than about being the best or defeating a boss ,or at least they should be. Most games fall into the trap that ZOS is going down, make the best attainable via one route and screw the rest. However for a game to feel vibrant, alive and for it to evolve you need to cater to different play styles whether the E-peen crowd like it or not.

In my opinion crafting should be the main sources of creating the best gear, why? because it creates communities, fosters a need to work with others and create a true sense of longevity, as it should take along time to master crafting or to acquire what you need to make something really good. You can argue the merits of the system zos has created around crafting and argue it should be harder but that does not change the fact that a crafter driven exonomy and the impact on the community it provides, is high.

What I still never get is why people like you who go on about Skill do not find leaderboards, timers and achievements as worthwhile compensation to prove out a person skill. Why is getting an item the key reward for a person who cares about skill, if i was bothered about showing of skill i would rather be at the top of a list not have an armor set.

Either way my point was that crafters should be able to make the best gear and while they can't the game will suffer, mark my words.

Malediktus

Largest risk and effort should have the best rewards. Crafting is low effort and no risk unless you gamble with tempers. And dont tell me I hate crafting, I got all crafts minimum 20, but I dont expect it to make the best items in the long run.

Rammi

Crafting is not low effort. I can accept risk to a degree but I'm not sure how defeating a boss is anymore risky? Where is the risk in doing a raid? you die? whoopdie doo hardly a risk in this game.

Malediktus

You loose time if the raid fails which should happen frequently until it reached farm status. Plus the repair costs you even get from just getting exp (armor in this game degrades by receiving exp).
Crafting is low effort, every now and then you put a trait for research, deconstruct some useless items for xp, preferably with a partner to speed it up. At the end you buy a stack of 100 bars from the guild store for 600 gold. You can become max crafting level by never leaving the town and never fighting a monster for the skillpoints if you desire.
If minigames were attached to crafting or really anything that would require meaningful player input, then it would take effort. As it is now its just nothing more than a way to get cheap and easy equipment, which is fine. But playstyles which require meaningful player input like the upcoming trails should always reward the best stuff, either cosmetically outstanding or set and stat bonis really good

If you cant get exclusive items from these trails many people will only beat them once for the achievements and story and then call it done. Because crafting is just that easy at the moment.

Imryll

Laura wrote: »

why will people do end game content if they can just go there local crafter and get the best stuff made. It makes no sense to me, there needs to be a balance. I hope they keep that in mind.

Because they enjoy it?

Lkory

Malediktus wrote: »

You loose time if the raid fails which should happen frequently until it reached farm status. Plus the repair costs you even get from just getting exp (armor in this game degrades by receiving exp).
Crafting is low effort, every now and then you put a trait for research, deconstruct some useless items for xp, preferably with a partner to speed it up. At the end you buy a stack of 100 bars from the guild store for 600 gold. You can become max crafting level by never leaving the town and never fighting a monster for the skillpoints if you desire.
If minigames were attached to crafting or really anything that would require meaningful player input, then it would take effort. As it is now its just nothing more than a way to get cheap and easy equipment, which is fine. But playstyles which require meaningful player input like the upcoming trails should always reward the best stuff, either cosmetically outstanding or set and stat bonis really good

If you cant get exclusive items from these trails many people will only beat them once for the achievements and story and then call it done. Because crafting is just that easy at the moment.

Well crafting should be made harder. Rare mats would be great (rare trait stones for example), crafting crits, etc. I agree it is way to easy right now.

Gear permanent decay would be great also... loose 1 armor every 25 repairs (just a quick example), might even drop a level after awhile.

A way to research dropped set items would also be great, using rare mats and perhaps a special crafting table.

Player interaction during crafting would also be a great addition... A la EQ2 or Vanguard where crafting requires player interaction to work. And they could learn something from SWG as well.

I really hate the click and craft WoWish crafting method. It is dull and effortless.

Raubrey

Asha_Veor wrote: »

Crafting is already obsolete at V5-10, the set gear that drops provides bonuses that blow all of the crafted gear out of the water.
<edit>
None of the crafted sets can even compare to getting 25% stamina regen for the entire party (Saviors set) or 100 extra hp for the entire party (Ebon set) or 8% reduction of magicka costs for the entire party (Worm cult set)

I have not tried the 7 and 8 trait required sets yet, because of the massive overhead in research ^_^ but from what i see and read, none of them compare to party wide set bonuses, And since most if not all of V10 content is group based If ZOS wants crafting to become useful endgame, they need to add some Party wide crafting set bonuses. They don't need to match the set drops, they just need to be NEAR the same level of usefulness.

This is sad. What do I do with this information (rhetorical question) -- I have many people crafting in my guild and it's hard enough sticking with enchanting as is though most people seem to enjoy crafting in general (in my guild).

So what are people going to say to their guildmates...enjoy what you're doing now as it will be near worthless in a few weeks?

The end-game is sounding more like Swotor without some of its advantages (like target markers) and Huttball <sarcasm>. Personally I"m looking forward to raiding and dungeons but many people are still not comfortable with or interested in them.

Thanks for the enlightenment. I suppose things could change?

Abeille

Malediktus wrote: »

Largest risk and effort should have the best rewards. Crafting is low effort and no risk unless you gamble with tempers. And dont tell me I hate crafting, I got all crafts minimum 20, but I dont expect it to make the best items in the long run.

It depends on the point of view. I think patience should also be rewarded and it also counts as effort. Using your resources and breaking down your gear for crafting instead of selling them, therefore not making as much money as you could have made, should also be rewarded.

And all you risk when you attack a boss is a repair bill. That's next to nothing.

Tweek

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Rammi wrote: »

I was so excited when i read from Paul Sage that Crafting was going to be the best way for people to gain the very best gear.

My immediate reaction was "I find that hard to believe" but when playing the game I found that for the most part his statement was true you really could make the very best gear and the idea of crafting stations around the map that had special trait bonus was a wonderful idea.

However that has now all changed as always with the inclusion of Craglorn and high level content. http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/04/23/creating-eso-trials

LOL!

No Legendary gear will drop anywhere. if you want Legendary gear, you need a crafter. Simple as that.

So the best gear in the game will technically be crafted. If you don't deal with Crafters you will never get anything beyond Epic.

This is true, and I also would like to add, that the best gear is going to be dropped and then will need to be upgraded by a crafter from what I've been told. So you need both a crafter and a PvE player to get the best gear. Which is cool that both are required, I Like this alot!