Crafting got nerfed, As expected I Guess!! Im gutted!

Rammi

I was so excited when i read from Paul Sage that Crafting was going to be the best way for people to gain the very best gear.

My immediate reaction was "I find that hard to believe" but when playing the game I found that for the most part his statement was true you really could make the very best gear and the idea of crafting stations around the map that had special trait bonus was a wonderful idea.

However that has now all changed as always with the inclusion of Craglorn and high level content. http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/04/23/creating-eso-trials

Reading this its clear to see they have moved to the standard model and gear grind fest to attain the best gear in game via high level content and his statement was only true given the slow roll out of that content. This quote said it all "You can earn the very best loot—special set pieces that only drop from the final bosses"

Im sure some people will be happy about this, I'm personally gutted as I was really looking forward to the game catering to a more player driven economy. Upgrading items for people is not crafting.

Ah well I will enjoy leveling and playing some of the content and then move on like every other MMO that falls into the same trap of catering to the wrong crowd for longevity, as they speed through content like it does not even exist.

A gutted fan!

EDIT: To be clear, I have no problem with PVE being a source for people getting the best gear my issue is with crafters not being able to do the same.

EDIT2: Also smercgames point is very valid in that without item decay and destruction of items, you can't have an effective player driven economy. Which is very true and something which should also be addressed and is really the main problem the more I think about it.

Odysseuss

Well, the statement "You can earn the very best loot—special set pieces that only drop from the final bosses" is within the context of Craglorn itself.

However, unless they are adding a crafting update as well, you may be right that it is better than the crafted gear. It seems to me that I cannot craft gear better than the dropped sets already though. And I can craft higher level gear that I can wear.

NukaCola

This is where you put your best crafted gear on and test it out. Or would you just craft awesome gear and go farm more materials with it.

This is how MMO's work. Im sure they will have crafting related rewards in there too. If not in that zone then in future zones.

SirPuppingtonVonHat

I wouldn't despair quite yet.

ZOS's design goal with crafting and gear has never been "one way is best way;" they've always wanted things to be a mix of crafting and loot drops. The Craglorn special drops will be very good, but they will be epic/purple level gear at most, so to make them the best they can be you'll need a good crafter to upgrade them. We also don't know what special crafting stations there will be in Craglorn, so its within the realm of possibility that they will be competitive options. Paul Sage also said game systems will be updated in the State of the Game address with Craglorn.

Wait until the Craglorn test notes are made public (this will happen soon), and wait to hear what testers have to say about the area (I'll be one). Until, keep your fingers crossed.

norm_voshall

If they added in a mechanic to research set bonuses for dropped sets, not crafting location sets, it would be really nice. This would alleviate a lot of the complaining about the need for an AH as well AND allow for better customization of gear. Instead of trying to find that belt specifically of the warlock or red mountain, you could find someone who has researched that trait and can apply it to gear. Make it like a week for 3 piece bonus and 2 weeks for 5 piece bonus.

Xnemesis

Craiglorn is a zone not a raid so with a new zone I would assume comes new crafting stations for only the best crafters. I wouldn't just assume from one statement any doom or gloom for crafters. You also have to realize they will be releasing the thieves guild and Dark brotherhood which means they will probably have special crafting stations as the other guilds do.

NordJitsu

Full stop.

Wait for it.

What if Craglorn has special crafting stations of its own for new gear sets?

Mind blown.

SadisticSavior

Rammi wrote: »

I was so excited when i read from Paul Sage that Crafting was going to be the best way for people to gain the very best gear.

My immediate reaction was "I find that hard to believe" but when playing the game I found that for the most part his statement was true you really could make the very best gear and the idea of crafting stations around the map that had special trait bonus was a wonderful idea.

However that has now all changed as always with the inclusion of Craglorn and high level content. http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/04/23/creating-eso-trials

LOL!

No Legendary gear will drop anywhere. if you want Legendary gear, you need a crafter. Simple as that.

So the best gear in the game will technically be crafted. If you don't deal with Crafters you will never get anything beyond Epic.

Kemono

Problem with Craglorn from crafters standpoint (right now) :
There are no mentioning about ANY aditional tiers to all crafs. And we know thet there will be additional Veteran levels (V11-12). Serioulsy there was a Q&A about Craglorn and no one ever asked about that? Sound fishy...
And im not speaking about equipment only - curently best crafted food is Vet 5 lev. C'mmon!

There are no new crating styles (confirmed)
No new crafter created sets
No dyes (not even one mention)

and back to OP question

Crafting got nerfed, As expected I Guess!! Im gutted!

Thats not true -droped sets was allready MUCH betrer, and now they get even BETTER. So nothing really changed

Terminus

NordJitsu wrote: »

What if Craglorn has special crafting stations of its own for new gear sets?

Sounds fantastic @Nordjitsu. Maybe we can only craft it with a rare drop from the bosses?
That way they'd drop rare armor, but it still needs to pass through a veteran crafter.

Better question:
Will we need to spend more skillpoints to craft VR11-15 gear?

Cats525

NukaCola wrote: »

This is where you put your best crafted gear on and test it out. Or would you just craft awesome gear and go farm more materials with it.

This is how MMO's work. Im sure they will have crafting related rewards in there too. If not in that zone then in future zones.

No this is just how most MMO's work. Back in SWG for example group content was only good to provide materials and shematics or the necessary location to craft something. No matter whether it was weapons, armor, buff-items... apart from materials and shematics, if it wasn't player-crafted, it wasn't worth using.

Hammerswarm

The solution to this is so simple (and as always suggestions are free to game devs) Put crafting areas for special sets past the boss at the end of the instance. Don't make the sets a random drop, those suck.

Additionally you could put zone specific crafting materials in above or in parallel with other gear. Craigwood would mirror Nightwood and would be useful in crafting the Craigcraft set located past the final boss.

Sure it might only be a temporary hurdle to overcome because you could make 1000 bows with access to that station and sell them but it would at least remove the ridiculous random drop mechanics that have plagued other MMOs for years.

Stick with crafting, It's the winner.

Random drops with unique skins and same power but unique stats are always sought after regardless. Rings. Amulets. Etc. Don't make crafting less than for the sake of raid content.

smercgames_ESO

Crafting was doomed as soon as they decided to not allow items to be destroyed. There is no economy if there is no demand for new items. Once you have the best equipment you are done and do not need to craft anything ever again.

The only exception to this is Alchemy since those items are consumed but weapons/armor/enchants are not. when items are not removed from the game there is no need for new items which means there is no need for a crafting system except something to do while you level and then it becomes worthless at the end unless you get specific bonuses later on for maxing them out in which case it still doesn't make an economy all it does it make you work for a specific buff.

So no matter what the "fix" is for still allowing you to craft the highest level stuff compared to dungeons, it doesn't matter because there will be an economy for it till everyone has it and then poof! crafting will be worthless again.

The only game with an actual economy I have played is EVE and that is because your ship blows up and you need to rebuild it from scratch. Every other MMO I have played crafting is complete garbage or it gives you some small crafter specific buff but like I said, thats just forcing you to do crafting work to get a buff.

So you were gutted from day 1.

kirbus

will most likely have its own crafting stations for sets, you will just need to have researched every trait on a piece of equipment.

crafting is much more reliable than random loot in my opinion. with crafting you will be able to pick your exact level, trait, combination of sets, and rarity.

am i the only one crafting with the purpose of having all legendary vet 12 gear with perfect traits and 2 sets one with 3 piece and 5 piece bonus and the other with the 4 piece bonus on all 9 pieces of my gear.

that is my end game goal, and much better than dropped loot IMO.

keep up with your research people.

aeroch

I'm hoping they buff up and introduce a lot more craftable sets. I've been really disappointed with them compared to the dropped PvE sets and PvP sets.

Beryl

At the moment all crafted gear has better stats than world drop gear. At the same time, the world drop sets often have better set bonuses than crafted sets.

From what I read, I assume that this pattern will still be the case. Gear items which drop in Craglorn will have unique set bonuses while slightly lower stats than crafted gear.

Aggelos

@Rammi

They always said there would be "set bonuses" that you could only get as drops. In terms of power, you can make gear equal to gear from Craglorn but you will need to use a set bonuses from one of those crafting locations in the world. The PvE/PvP content has always had unique set bonuses.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

When Craglorn launches, we're keeping crafters in mind; your crafts will not become obsolete. We are expanding the crafting system with Craglorn so that you will be able to create Veteran Rank 11 and 12 gear.

Maverick827

One has to be better than the other. Right now, even with lower overall stats, dropped gear is better because its set bonuses are better (and easier to obtain). Maybe Craglorn will introduce new crafted sets (hopefully ones that don't require 8 traits, which is ridiculous) that make crafted gear overall better this "tier," and then the next tier dropped sets are back to being better, and so on and so forth.

Attorneyatlawl

Crafting already hasn't been best currently, due to poor set bonuses, lower weapon damage, etc. compared to drops. It's fill-in gear right now... we'll see if that changes with new sets from craglorn. Nothing new, the "crafted will be best" thing has always been marketing.

Jonnymorrow

To be honest, I like hard challenging PvE that rewards players with great gear. Maybe it be a instance or a Stong World Boss. ESO has none of this. The PvE is boring and easy. World Bosses can all be 2 manned some even 1 manned. This game needs Bosses that take 12+ players to kill. And the reward for that should be worthwhile something very strong with a low drop chance.

I fail to see why crafted gear should be better than that rewarded for completing hard PvE features. Why cant it be equal???

Abeille

Jonnymorrow wrote: »

I fail to see why crafted gear should be better than that rewarded for completing hard PvE features. Why cant it be equal???

I am all for them to be equal and I'm a crafter.
I hate RNG, so having the best gear being dropped gear bothers me, I would rather being able to craft the best gear in the game. There is no reason for not to have multiple ways to get the best gear, though, and for me the perfect MMO must support every play style.

Sihnfahl

Well, it would only make sense for Tamrielic bosses to have equal, but not superior, gear to what can be crafted. You're limited only by your access to master smiths / woodworkers / tailors, etc. You become a master, you're as good as THEIR masters.

The absolute best gear, of course, would be gifts of the Daedric Princes, but you know that'll come with a cost. They just don't GIVE things.

LazerusKI

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

When Craglorn launches, we're keeping crafters in mind; your crafts will not become obsolete. We are expanding the crafting system with Craglorn so that you will be able to create Veteran Rank 11 and 12 gear.

will this include new styles or will they be like V9 and v10?
will this also include a fix for the broken colors?

robertlive2014

For me, so far (VR5 as of 4/24), the most loot seems to drop from certain public dungeon "trash" mobs, perhaps because there are so many more of these mobs being killed, I don't know, but I regularly get an epic item from killing some random, off the beaten path, trash mob. Lately, it seems like killing mini-bosses is a waste of time as far as loot rewards. Seriously, I got like 4 gold pieces and a plain white dagger from some "Captain 25K HP" quest boss yesterday, that took me around five attempts to solo. Ridiculous. Except for an epic VR5 flame staff (that Conflagration Staff, yup, that one) that I got from a Vet dungeon, all my gear is crafted. None of the set bonuses on the loot sets are worth the price of ugly, and none of the crafted sets withing my reach at this point are very compelling. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but the crafted set bonuses seem pretty underwhelming. I'll keep plugging away at my research, but I'm not exactly excited about it.

RomedyMC

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

When Craglorn launches, we're keeping crafters in mind; your crafts will not become obsolete. We are expanding the crafting system with Craglorn so that you will be able to create Veteran Rank 11 and 12 gear.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom is, by far, my favorite forum moderator. I was never going to give up my armorsmtihing, but thank you for this.

Laura

why will people do end game content if they can just go there local crafter and get the best stuff made. It makes no sense to me, there needs to be a balance. I hope they keep that in mind.

Abeille

Laura wrote: »

why will people do end game content if they can just go there local crafter and get the best stuff made. It makes no sense to me, there needs to be a balance. I hope they keep that in mind.

Because:
1-There are unique enchantments that are only on dropped items.
2-Why pay a crafter if you can drop equally good gear, getting geared up for free?

UnknownXV

NukaCola wrote: »

This is where you put your best crafted gear on and test it out. Or would you just craft awesome gear and go farm more materials with it.

This is how MMO's work. I'm sure they will have crafting related rewards in there too. If not in that zone then in future zones.

Correction, it's how bad themepark MMOs work. Anyone looking for a sandbox, player driven crafting based economy in a themepark MMO, does not understand the concept. For me, the only appeal this game offers is the story, fair combat, fun exploration, and PvP. It's obvious that, given it is a traditional level based game with dungeons and perpetual expansions that merely cater to more preordained challenges for groups, that crafting could never be the primary focus.

The only semi-compromise possible here is that the trial bosses drop ultra rare crafting materials necessary to make the best gear, or unlock special traits from them. In the end, it still means you have to do the hardest group based dungeons to attain it, but technically it's still also dependent on being able to craft it. Although this is pointless since leveling crafting skills is about 200 times (literally) too fast for it to be meaningful. Everyone will be maxed in all professions within a month, if that.

RomedyMC

Laura wrote: »

why will people do end game content if they can just go their local crafter and get the best stuff made. It makes no sense to me, there needs to be a balance. I hope they keep that in mind.

Now, I'm not a dev, but I would hazard a guess that there are PvE "Set drops" and PvE "Craftable sets" that do not overlap for this very reason.

Or, if you like the challenge, you'll go through all of the content for the sake of... well, going through all of the content. To see it. To beat it. "We came, we saw, we conquered" type of thing.

Those are things that I would do. Perhaps you are of a different mind...

Rammi

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

Crafting was doomed as soon as they decided to not allow items to be destroyed. There is no economy if there is no demand for new items. Once you have the best equipment you are done and do not need to craft anything ever again.

The only exception to this is Alchemy since those items are consumed but weapons/armor/enchants are not. when items are not removed from the game there is no need for new items which means there is no need for a crafting system except something to do while you level and then it becomes worthless at the end unless you get specific bonuses later on for maxing them out in which case it still doesn't make an economy all it does it make you work for a specific buff.

So no matter what the "fix" is for still allowing you to craft the highest level stuff compared to dungeons, it doesn't matter because there will be an economy for it till everyone has it and then poof! crafting will be worthless again.

The only game with an actual economy I have played is EVE and that is because your ship blows up and you need to rebuild it from scratch. Every other MMO I have played crafting is complete garbage or it gives you some small crafter specific buff but like I said, thats just forcing you to do crafting work to get a buff.

So you were gutted from day 1.

The more I think about it your 100% spot on but only from the perspective of the longevity of the game. To create longevity and the feeling of a need to go to a crafter, you do, as you say have to create a mechanism for items to decay and be destroyed, over time.

However, My statement is still true in that crafting got nerfed, its just even less important now and is on a par with every other MMO, while before at least I could create some of the best items.

Sorry Zenimax but I have to say congrats on creating yet another content dependent gear grind and falling for the same trap every other MMO devloper has since WOW. I hope it works out for you but looking at every other MMO since WOW it does not look good.

Rammi