Separate Veteran's from Normal

SourceError

Too many crybabies in MMOs

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

Kolache wrote: »

If you're telling him to just leave PvP until he levels up, why would you care if he could go to a sub-VR campaign to PvP instead? Either way he's gone from your campaign; what does it matter to you?

campaigns are to small atm. This is why we need structured PvP

LadyChaos

I like arenas.. I like small group and 1v1.. personally, but I think it would hurt more than help. Too my would push for changes that favor 1v1 when the entire pvp dynamic is large-scale oriented. I think down the road when more balancing debates are settled and more normalization is finished it might be time to begin to introduce.. but only my opinion.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

If you're telling him to just leave PvP until he levels up, why would you care if he could go to a sub-VR campaign to PvP instead? Either way he's gone from your campaign; what does it matter to you?

campaigns are to small atm. This is why we need structured PvP

Kingslayer

I know on the EU one their should be 4 campaigns only thats how many are full mostly at peak times.

Silestia

I have news for you, if a VR10 vamp sorc (which I am) YOLOs into a group of reds they will be cut to ribbons just like anyone else. If they stand in fire from a siege engine they burn just like everyone else (perhaps more so because of the vamp thing).

But the thing is you do not get to VR10 without being knowledgeable about your class so the reason why you are outclassed is not because they are inherently more powerful (the pvp buff that you get the instant you set foot in cyrodyll pretty well evens out the battlefield with this, and a well played level 10 character with that buff can kill a VR10 character) , but because they have been around for longer and they know where and when they can act to cause the most damage and avoid being killed by other players.

In short what you are encountering is better players and not better characters.

Rylana

Gwarok wrote: »

Faolanhart wrote: »

Oh noes, those level 60 players are more powerful than level 30 players, nobody saw that one coming.
A bunch of people want to be vampires because they can be pretty OP right now if built the right way.
But just like you shouldn't expect to beat Riften at level 20-30, don't expect to beat level 50-60 characters at that level.
Experience comes into it also, those who have played longer than others will be more experienced.
Then there is the good leader & teamwork vs bad leader & teamwork.
Leave PVP until you are a higher level or find a big team with good teamwork & a good leader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4FdlNlWBKQ

I WAS BORN FOR DYING!!!!

\m/

Best post yet on the ESO forums.

Valaska

Silestia wrote: »

I have news for you, if a VR10 vamp sorc (which I am) YOLOs into a group of reds they will be cut to ribbons just like anyone else. If they stand in fire from a siege engine they burn just like everyone else (perhaps more so because of the vamp thing).

But the thing is you do not get to VR10 without being knowledgeable about your class so the reason why you are outclassed is not because they are inherently more powerful (the pvp buff that you get the instant you set foot in cyrodyll pretty well evens out the battlefield with this, and a well played level 10 character with that buff can kill a VR10 character) , but because they have been around for longer and they know where and when they can act to cause the most damage and avoid being killed by other players.

In short what you are encountering is better players and not better characters.

I've seen V10 vamp DK's literally stop an entire raid party flat because we didn't have vets, focus hitting the guy we took him down to 14% before he killed me and the other last guy, and I was even using killers blade on him at 25% over and over.

Slantasiam

wow whining cause higher levels beat you....go figure. level up noob you are the one holding you back not the v10.

Valaska

Slantasiam wrote: »

wow whining cause higher levels beat you....go figure. level up noob you are the one holding you back not the v10.

Apologies, I can't grind for 48 hours straight, but you're right! Us lower levels should just stay out of the campaign! That should SURELY help swell the numbers! It will totally get people engrossed and active in PVP!

My question is, are you so "noobish" at the game, you can't fight people your own level and rank? People that have a chance against you? You're so bad at the game you just need the edge of being completely invulnerable? You need to drive any and all possible new players to PVP and campaigns just to inflate your fragile little ego... Got it. Well, have fun with the quickly dying off PVP!

Gisgo

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

campaigns are to small atm. This is why we DO NOT need structured PvP

Fixed.

beravinprb19_ESO

Honestly, why are you guys just so... People are quitting because population balance has become a running joke for most campaigns. Yet, here I find people telling other players to go PvE so they can PvP... Do you not care if all the campaigns are empty? We need more players, not less, and the last thing we should be doing is pushing people away...

e.gamemarkb14_ESO

I actually logged in to post here, after seeing several members of the community try and tell the OP to "go lvl up" instead of enjoying part of the content they paid for.

AvA is meant for ALL players starting at lvl 10. Frankly we have a ton of Veteran ranked players and I agree that lvl 10-49 should be 100% separated from the Veteran ranks.

So many elitists in these games and in the forums its disgusting. I have no doubt the majority of the community would actually like to see this separation, with the option for lower lvls to join the higher tiered campaigns if they wanted to do so.

It is a night / day difference between a Vet ranked player vrs non-vet ranked, I really hope ZOS will do this and end all campaigns shortly after 1.1 goes live.

Fewer campaigns and new rule sets to do just this would be a step in the right direction.

smokes

lao wrote: »

get a duo partner and grind it up -> 50 in 24h is possible from what ppl tell me. 48 hours if u do it solo (what i did). u cant go and take the slowest possible way to 50 and then go and demand ZOS to make a campaign just for you and ur likes so u can compete. thats just extremely silly.

surely you mean, by playing the way the designers intended - rather than the "slowest possible way to 50" - it's an rpg game, people are gonna quest, i quested all the way to VR2 before i got bored silly of questing - i pvp, i quest, i farm, i craft - but even i know the difference between a balanced pvp experience and a veteran rank AP farming fodder experience.

having campaigns that:
A: only allow non-veterans
B: only allow veterans
is not necessarily a bad idea.

the scaling system largely balances out players beneath the level cap - but once you get into the veteran ranks, the difference in gear/stats/active abilities really starts to show.

i had great fun in the beta playing with hundreds of other level 10's - but in the live game, the zerg group would be wiped out by 1 VR10 vampire. thats great for the VR10 farming AP, but really sucks for all the level 10's and any new level 10 player who walked into that kind of overwhleming foe will be easily put off pvp'ing for a very long time.

who's going to support the game for longer and be the kind of player zenimax wants to keep subscribed, the hundred level 10's or the single VR10 who will move onto the next big thing once it releases because he's so pro?

separating off the lower level players might be a bad thing for the pvp pro's, who are suddenly not able to leech easy points from low level players, but it'd be a great improvement for the game as a whole and as more people level up over time, things will balance out - but you have to accomodate new players, otherwise you cannot retain their subscriptions - leaving them to be 1-shot by VR10's is not accomodating them and tbh i'd like to see more people continue to play.

aside from my VR2 templar, i also have a level 12 sorc - at the moment, i wouldn't dream of taking him into pvp, i'd just get steamrolled by a veteran - it's not worth the time spent running around the map to find a battle to then be 1-shot.

edit: i would like to stipulate that this shouldn't be in effect on all campaigns, you could literally have 1 campaign for VR only and 1 campaign for non-VR only and leave the rest as is. definitely shouldn't be applied across them all, as it would separate out the playerbase too much. but it would at least give a place for the top-end VR pvp pro's to play together against each other in a much more oganised fashion. as well as give lower level players who feel decimated by the opposition a little sanctuary.

lao

smokes wrote: »

lao wrote: »

get a duo partner and grind it up -> 50 in 24h is possible from what ppl tell me. 48 hours if u do it solo (what i did). u cant go and take the slowest possible way to 50 and then go and demand ZOS to make a campaign just for you and ur likes so u can compete. thats just extremely silly.

surely you mean, by playing the way the designers intended - rather than the "slowest possible way to 50" - it's an rpg game, people are gonna quest, i quested all the way to VR2 before i got bored silly of questing - i pvp, i quest, i farm, i craft - but even i know the difference between a balanced pvp experience and a veteran rank AP farming fodder experience.

sure let them quest. nothing wrong with that but if ur choosing to be stubborn and rather quest than grind thats your choice. no1 forces you to do it that way. its not exactly a secret that grinding is faster.

how would u know what their intentions were. maybe they planned it all along that way. it would make sense tbh. all the roleplayers can roleplay and have a long game experience going through all the quests and all the non roleplayers who hate pve with a passion can just grind it up and be done with it in a day.

if it was intended like that it would be a really smart system. ofc ull get not so smart roleplayers complaining about it cos well they just like to complain about everything that isnt exactly the way they demand.

also who gave u that idea that this is an rpg. skyrim is an rpg. it may be called mmorpg but the mmo part is really all that matters. in mmos min/maxing is all that counts in literally every single aspect of the game. that ofc also includes effective lvling ways. if the fastest way to lvl would be to autorun into a brickwall for 15 hours than ppl would do that. thats just how these games work. thats how humans work. we will always go for the fastest way with the least effort to archieve our goals.

and no seperated lowbies from vets is an awful idea. the population on all servers is already extremely low during offpeak hours. if u havent noticed yet the game is dying already. if u seperate the lowbies from the vets now it will just lead to an even quicker death cos then even during primetime the campaigns would be deserted. then even more ppl quit cos theres no action.

gostner.emanuelb16_ESO

If you seperate normals with veterans Cyrodil would be totally empty. A better solution would be to just increase stats of <50 more.

limeli8

lol separating wont do anything, vr12 people will roll twinked out alts and wipe the floor with zergs again even not being vr because they'll have better skills and knowledge of wtf to do

leandro.800ub17_ESO

We need people in campaigns not separate them . True that a VR 10 should solo a small group of lv 30 i mean the difference is huge.
They could make 1 or 2 campaigns level restricted bit that all
The idea is a huge fight going on . For me the best PVP system on mmos needs some changes yes but the concept is here

smokes

lao wrote: »

sure let them quest. nothing wrong with that but if ur choosing to be stubborn and rather quest than grind thats your choice. no1 forces you to do it that way. its not exactly a secret that grinding is faster.

how would u know what their intentions were. maybe they planned it all along that way. it would make sense tbh. all the roleplayers can roleplay and have a long game experience going through all the quests and all the non roleplayers who hate pve with a passion can just grind it up and be done with it in a day.

if it was intended like that it would be a really smart system. ofc ull get not so smart roleplayers complaining about it cos well they just like to complain about everything that isnt exactly the way they demand.

also who gave u that idea that this is an rpg. skyrim is an rpg. it may be called mmorpg but the mmo part is really all that matters. in mmos min/maxing is all that counts in literally every single aspect of the game. that ofc also includes effective lvling ways. if the fastest way to lvl would be to autorun into a brickwall for 15 hours than ppl would do that. thats just how these games work. thats how humans work. we will always go for the fastest way with the least effort to archieve our goals.

and no seperated lowbies from vets is an awful idea. the population on all servers is already extremely low during offpeak hours. if u havent noticed yet the game is dying already. if u seperate the lowbies from the vets now it will just lead to an even quicker death cos then even during primetime the campaigns would be deserted. then even more ppl quit cos theres no action.

seriously, you think it's stubborn to actually quest/play the way the devs intended?

i would say stubbornly grinding mobs to get to max level so you can "pwn newbs" is beyond stubborn and into no-lifer territory. but oh no, have a go at the people that enjoy every aspect of this game, not just pwning noobs in pvp by grinding mobs to max level - seriously, go play CoD, GW2 or titanfall - as you obviously do not appreciate all the finer details that the developers put into this game.

by the way, all those finer details wouldn't have been put into the game if it was all about the pvp and grinding to VR10 as quick as possible - they would've just made everyone the same level, given everyone 300 skillpoints to spend, a bag full of gear and said "have at it" much like all the FPS games out there.

wtf is wrong with you, super epeen pro-pvp guy? go back to CoD, WoW, GW2 or whatever hole you crawled out of - it's not just an mmorpg, it's a frickin elder scrolls mmorpg - yes skyrim was a single player RPG, ESO is a multi-player RPG.

if the game is dying already, it's because people like you have no concept of fair play and wish to abuse the system to get to your goals - emporership and pvp dominance through out-levelling every other player on the battlefield. seriously, broaden your narrow minded ridiculous viewpoint. as by the time every non-basement dwelling average player gets to your level in both gear and veteran rank, you'll probably have rage-quit because you wont have such an easy time killing people any more and there's "not enough content" because you ignored 95% of it.

yes, pvp is a big part of this game, but so are the quests and storyline - how can you not get that? i honestly think you are playing the wrong game.

just because i enjoyed the quests and the lore and appreciated every aspect that the developers spent time putting into the game does not make me a roleplayer - i can pvp and pve with the best of them

Thalmar

I would love ZOS add a dedicated level 1-49 campaign where people can level up till 50 who doesn't enjoy questing or PvE with increased experience gain at the pace of PvE. When people reach Veteran ranks it is fair deal, a V1 should never beat a VR10 if there is no huge skill and gear difference, that's why there is a gear progress in MMOs. BUT a level 13 against V10 is just absurd and unfair. Boosting stats to top is not enough since a level 13 player will have too few skill points to be in a fair fight with a VR10.

I am a PvP player, i like to PvP but right now i didn't join any single campaign over a week, because being *** by a VR10 in 1 second is not fun or either PvP for me when you are mid 20s. If ZOS will not do anything about level difference and i do not mean boosting your health, i am afraid i will get bored questing and will move on to another game with proper PvP with many people thinks same as me.

Nidwin

Yeah.
A flaw in RvR design.

There should have been mini Cyrodiil's for lower levels, lower tiers, for when you get bored of the PVE stuff and want to fight real peeps, not IA.

As for stat increase, shall we start the RR100 history all over again or not

cortechsnub18_ESO

I quit pvping because of the power difference.

I am a player who enjoys PvE and PvP. When I start to get bored of one, I switch to the other for a while. Unfortunately, I can't really do that in ESO.

Last week I logged into Cyrodill to give it another shot. I had not played in a while. I joined a keep defense of a whole three players. I was using snipe with my crafted, enchanted bow to attack the invaders who were on our outer wall. It was only taking off about 2% health per shot. They were not even moving out of my range, I was so ineffective.

I was level 31. I didn't notice any shields or bubbles, and tried several different targets. I eventually just suicided and went back to PvE.

Plenty of players are interested in PvP, but they are not going to tolerate being powerless cannon fodder. And I'm not going to ruin PvE by blazing through it or changing my play style. Plus, I'm still toying with classes and builds.

The only question is whether I'll get bored of only PvE before VR10 and move on to another game.

Thalmar

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

We need people in campaigns not separate them . True that a VR 10 should solo a small group of lv 30 i mean the difference is huge.
They could make 1 or 2 campaigns level restricted bit that all
The idea is a huge fight going on . For me the best PVP system on mmos needs some changes yes but the concept is here

Your answer is inside your comment itself. You say "we need people in campaigns" but actually the main reason campaigns get emptied because of the difference between Veteran Ranks and 10-50 players. I personally don't like to feed some VR10's ego with my level 25. I like leveling slowly, have no rush, have no aim to be superior to others, i pay same amount as others. Boosting stats with 3 skills will never be enough against VR player with full skill three and gear and shouldn't be. I have no doubt developers saw the decline of campaigns against level difference and will add a campaign for people who take their time and don't feel obligatorisk to become highest rank fastest they can to rule.

Samadhi

I found Cyrodiil as a pre-50 player to be somewhat more fun than I am finding it as a Veteran player.

One of the main reasons for this was that beating Veterans while being pre-50 was quite satisfying.

I'm debating making a pre-50 alt to mess around in Cyrodiil some more with. If they messed things up by separating players, I suppose I could just ditch it without feeling too put out over the issue.

lao

smokes wrote: »

lao wrote: »

sure let them quest. nothing wrong with that but if ur choosing to be stubborn and rather quest than grind thats your choice. no1 forces you to do it that way. its not exactly a secret that grinding is faster.

how would u know what their intentions were. maybe they planned it all along that way. it would make sense tbh. all the roleplayers can roleplay and have a long game experience going through all the quests and all the non roleplayers who hate pve with a passion can just grind it up and be done with it in a day.

if it was intended like that it would be a really smart system. ofc ull get not so smart roleplayers complaining about it cos well they just like to complain about everything that isnt exactly the way they demand.

also who gave u that idea that this is an rpg. skyrim is an rpg. it may be called mmorpg but the mmo part is really all that matters. in mmos min/maxing is all that counts in literally every single aspect of the game. that ofc also includes effective lvling ways. if the fastest way to lvl would be to autorun into a brickwall for 15 hours than ppl would do that. thats just how these games work. thats how humans work. we will always go for the fastest way with the least effort to archieve our goals.

and no seperated lowbies from vets is an awful idea. the population on all servers is already extremely low during offpeak hours. if u havent noticed yet the game is dying already. if u seperate the lowbies from the vets now it will just lead to an even quicker death cos then even during primetime the campaigns would be deserted. then even more ppl quit cos theres no action.

seriously, you think it's stubborn to actually quest/play the way the devs intended?

i would say stubbornly grinding mobs to get to max level so you can "pwn newbs" is beyond stubborn and into no-lifer territory. but oh no, have a go at the people that enjoy every aspect of this game, not just pwning noobs in pvp by grinding mobs to max level - seriously, go play CoD, GW2 or titanfall - as you obviously do not appreciate all the finer details that the developers put into this game.

by the way, all those finer details wouldn't have been put into the game if it was all about the pvp and grinding to VR10 as quick as possible - they would've just made everyone the same level, given everyone 300 skillpoints to spend, a bag full of gear and said "have at it" much like all the FPS games out there.

wtf is wrong with you, super epeen pro-pvp guy? go back to CoD, WoW, GW2 or whatever hole you crawled out of - it's not just an mmorpg, it's a frickin elder scrolls mmorpg - yes skyrim was a single player RPG, ESO is a multi-player RPG.

if the game is dying already, it's because people like you have no concept of fair play and wish to abuse the system to get to your goals - emporership and pvp dominance through out-levelling every other player on the battlefield. seriously, broaden your narrow minded ridiculous viewpoint. as by the time every non-basement dwelling average player gets to your level in both gear and veteran rank, you'll probably have rage-quit because you wont have such an easy time killing people any more and there's "not enough content" because you ignored 95% of it.

yes, pvp is a big part of this game, but so are the quests and storyline - how can you not get that? i honestly think you are playing the wrong game.

just because i enjoyed the quests and the lore and appreciated every aspect that the developers spent time putting into the game does not make me a roleplayer - i can pvp and pve with the best of them

holy crap man. how many blood vessels did u pop while writing all that?

srsly get a chill pill. your´re way too mad right now

smokes

lao wrote: »

holy crap man. how many blood vessels did u pop while writing all that?

srsly get a chill pill. your´re way too mad right now

all blood vessels and my composure are fully intact - it's not hard to lay down what might sound like me blowing a fuse when you can post something so woefully ignorant and elitist.

great reply btw, so insightful, if the only way to counter my arguments is troll me with "U so mad bro" you've already lost this discussion.

as i said before, if you want an elite pvp'ing mmo - go find another game, ESO comes from a massive RPG following and trying to dismiss other players as stubborn and not playing the game properly, for actually playing the game as the designers intended, is going to lead to you being flamed relentlessly.

Theron75

Faolanhart wrote: »

Leave PVP until you are a higher level or find a big team with good teamwork & a good leader.

Fail.

If that were the case, no one should be able to PvP @ level 10.

lao

smokes wrote: »

lao wrote: »

holy crap man. how many blood vessels did u pop while writing all that?

srsly get a chill pill. your´re way too mad right now

all blood vessels and my composure are fully intact - it's not hard to lay down what might sound like me blowing a fuse when you can post something so woefully ignorant and elitist.

great reply btw, so insightful, if the only way to counter my arguments is troll me with "U so mad bro" you've already lost this discussion.

as i said before, if you want an elite pvp'ing mmo - go find another game, ESO comes from a massive RPG following and trying to dismiss other players as stubborn and not playing the game properly, for actually playing the game as the designers intended, is going to lead to you being flamed relentlessly.

and who decided how the leveling process was intended to be done? you?

ill break this down for you in a way even you should be able to understand it.

theres 2 ways of lvling up in this game.

1) questing - slow, buggy, annoying

2) grinding - fast, straight forward, abit less annoying

both are viable and it is common knowledge that grinding is faster. ergo most ppl will grind. cos ya know most ppl will go the fast and less annoying route. only roleplayers will quest for the lore and ***.

again both ways are fine, to each his own etc.

now you come along and demand of everyone to go the slow and annoying quest route so u who is ignorant and refuses to grind can compete with them in pvp and u cry about everyone who chooses not to go through the tedious slow and buggy and annoying quest grind. and then u tell them to find another mmo? rofl dude maybe its YOU who should just go back to skyrim cos all mmos have always been like that. if there is an actual choice between quest and grind then 90% of mmo players will always choose grind simply cos its alot less annoying and works better in a group. if u havent noticed yet the point of mmos is to play with other ppl.

and dont give me that " like the developers intended" crap. obviously they intended the majority to grind and just put the quests in for you roleplayers or why do u think grinding is so much faster? you think that happened by accident? lol no it didnt.

so yea its quite simple, adapt to it, suck it up and start grinding or quest ur way to max level and deal with the fact that ull be outlevelled in pvp or find another game.

its already bad enough that ur forced to quest at VR levels and i promise u that will lead to alot of ppl quitting the game. infact i know a few that pretty much quitted already cos they are forced to quest at 50 and lets be honest what sane person wants to do that.

smokes

lao wrote: »

and who decided how the leveling process was intended to be done? you?

it's fairly common knowledge these days that mmo's that require a grind to hit max level dont last the distance - so to assume that ZoS intended for grinding to be the way to level is just stupid. of course questing was the intention, it's elder scrolls, not aion.

lao wrote: »

ill break this down for you in a way even you should be able to understand it.

theres 2 ways of lvling up in this game.

1) questing - slow, buggy, annoying

2) grinding - fast, straight forward, abit less annoying

both are viable and it is common knowledge that grinding is faster. ergo most ppl will grind. cos ya know most ppl will go the fast and less annoying route. only roleplayers will quest for the lore and ***.

just because it's faster to grind does not mean that the majority of the playerbase will play the game that way. again, you make assumptions that everyone playing this game is here to pvp to the leet max - which just isn't the case - the large majority of ESO players will be fans of the elder scrolls RPG series.

therefore "roleplayers" as you put it are likely the majority playerbase.

also to clarify:
someone who does quests and pays attention to lore is not a "roleplayer". that term is reserved for those who play the game in character.

there's a big difference. i dont do roleplay. neither do a lot of the people i've encountered ingame.

also - a lot of the bugs have been fixed.

lao wrote: »

again both ways are fine, to each his own etc.

absolutely - if you want to grind, go ahead - i am not here to try and stop you - however, i am here to try and separate people like you who do intend to grind to max level and essentially skip 95% of the content of this game, from those who wish to experience the content - in cyrodiil.

as that was the whole point of the original post - to separate the "leet" veteran rank 10 players who hit VR10 within 2 days of the servers opening, from those who will actually play the game, like a game, not a job.

wouldn't you prefer to play against other vet rank players? have some proper competitive pvp? proper strategies etc? instead of facing large zerg groups who are mostly full of new players learning the ropes, which you then steamroll through because they hardly stand a chance.

lao wrote: »

now you come along and demand of everyone to go the slow and annoying quest route so u who is ignorant and refuses to grind can compete with them in pvp and u cry about everyone who chooses not to go through the tedious slow and buggy and annoying quest grind. and then u tell them to find another mmo? rofl dude maybe its YOU who should just go back to skyrim cos all mmos have always been like that. if there is an actual choice between quest and grind then 90% of mmo players will always choose grind simply cos its alot less annoying and works better in a group. if u havent noticed yet the point of mmos is to play with other ppl.

i'm sorry, at which point did i demand everyone should quest to max level?

i didn't - i merely suggested that those who intend to bypass 95% of the content to get into pvp and pwn noobs, should be separated from those who wish to play the game via the "intended" levelling process of doing quests.

i mean jeez, why would the developers put so much time and effort developing ESO for 5 years, if everybody was supposed to grind their way to max level in 2 days and pvp? have you ever listened to any of the dev interviews? as i said, we might as well be given 300 skillpoints and start at max level if that was the intention - this is where your assumption that everyone should grind is so horribly wrong. why have they increased XP gains from pvp? and have suggested they might increase it again? it's so that those of you who only want to pvp can pvp to max level without the need grind quests.

any recent game that required a grind to max level has failed, it would be very silly of ZoS to release a game with that mindset - i know they are new to mmo's but jeez, that would be a proper noob mistake to make.

lao wrote: »

and dont give me that " like the developers intended" crap. obviously they intended the majority to grind and just put the quests in for you roleplayers or why do u think grinding is so much faster? you think that happened by accident? lol no it didnt.

lol - as i just pointed out above, intending your players to grind to max level is a recipe for disaster. only asian mmo's do this, any western mmo in the past 5 years that has tried this has failed horrendously.

lao wrote: »

so yea its quite simple, adapt to it, suck it up and start grinding or quest ur way to max level and deal with the fact that ull be outlevelled in pvp or find another game.

its already bad enough that ur forced to quest at VR levels and i promise u that will lead to alot of ppl quitting the game. infact i know a few that pretty much quitted already cos they are forced to quest at 50 and lets be honest what sane person wants to do that.

what sane person wants to grind to VR10 in order to pvp? you apparently dude! do you not see the hyperbole you are wrapped up in?

this game is made up of 3 separate types of players: pve, pvp and roleplay.

pvp - kills other players
pve - kills monsters, does quests, reads lore
roleplay - plays "in character" and doesn't just read lore, but actively tries to take part in it.

you assume, that everyone playing this game is only in it for the pvp - which is incredibly ignorant towards the other 2 types of players.

so to suggest that some, not all, of the cyrodiil campaigns have veteran rank only rules, or non-veteran rank only rules - goes to serve the other 2 types of player that wish to experience pvp.

how would you like it, if your first ever experience of pvp, in your first ever mmo, was constant death from a VR10 player who is seemingly indestructable?
do you really have no empathy towards other players, that you would prefer that they suck it up, grind to VR10 and then finally do some pvp, rather than dip in and out whilst they level?

can you really be so ignorant as to think that everybody see's the game in the same way that you do? and if not, they should have to suck it up? what percentage of the playerbase do you believe has actually "sucked it up" and levelled to VR10 in this way? i think you'd be suprised, you and your VR10 grinding buddies are in the minority.

everybody else is still questing, "roleplaying", crafting, farming skyshards and generally learning how to play. not everyone is leet, not everyone has been playing mmo's for years and not everyone wants to be steamrolled by a VR10 on their first entrance into pvp at level 10.

a group of VR10's laying waste to level 10's isn't fair gameplay and you know that, don't even try and pretend it's fair, because you know it isn't - even scaled to level 50, a level 10 doesn't even have weapon swap, let alone enough abilities to fill their first action bar.

separating the new players from the veterans will only help this game succeed - especially if ZoS are selective with the campaigns they apply it to. all i'm asking for here is to give new mmo players the chance to get involved and see how things work, whilst at least standing some sort of chance against the enemy.

whilst you seem to be asking everybody to step it up and go super hardcore pvp nerd in order to compete. which as i said, if it were call of duty, i would have no problem with you saying so , as a game like that deliberately has no levels because it's intentionally designed for pvp. the PVE campaign side of the game is single player only. but this is elder scrolls, pve and roleplay are going to be massive parts of this game whether you like it or not. there will be questing, there will be lore - so maybe you're the one that needs to suck it up and reconsider your opinion on the matter as well as where you stand in the grand scheme of things.

prana33b14_ESO

smokes wrote: »

lao wrote: »

and who decided how the leveling process was intended to be done? you?

it's fairly common knowledge these days that mmo's that require a grind to hit max level dont last the distance - so to assume that ZoS intended for grinding to be the way to level is just stupid. of course questing was the intention, it's elder scrolls, not aion.

In Aion you were FORCED to grind because of lack of quests. To assume ZoS didn't intend grinding to be ONE of the possible ways to level when there are perfect grinding areas in the game is beyond stupid. Different strokes for different folks. I do both personally. Sometimes I just put music on and kill mobs in an area for a few hours. I PREFER that sometimes.

smokes wrote: »

i'm sorry, at which point did i demand everyone should quest to max level?

Well, you sure insinuated it above. I'll bold it for ya.

smokes wrote: »

any recent game that required a grind to max level has failed, it would be very silly of ZoS to release a game with that mindset - i know they are new to mmo's but jeez, that would be a proper noob mistake to make.

Strawman alert. No one has said you need to grind but if you want to be competitive in pvp right away, it is the fastest way to be competitive. If you don't want to grind, accept the consequences that you may not be as powerful in pvp until you finish leveling.

smokes wrote: »

you assume, that everyone playing this game is only in it for the pvp - which is incredibly ignorant towards the other 2 types of players.

so to suggest that some, not all, of the cyrodiil campaigns have veteran rank only rules, or non-veteran rank only rules - goes to serve the other 2 types of player that wish to experience pvp.

Well if the other two types aren't in it for the PVP why do you demand we change the PVP to cater to them instead of the people that bought this game to pvp?

smokes wrote: »

how would you like it, if your first ever experience of pvp, in your first ever mmo, was constant death from a VR10 player who is seemingly indestructable?
do you really have no empathy towards other players, that you would prefer that they suck it up, grind to VR10 and then finally do some pvp, rather than dip in and out whilst they level?

This is how my first experiences in pvp were many years ago. I turned out just fine. Do the little kiddies need some coddling?!

smokes wrote: »

whilst you seem to be asking everybody to step it up and go super hardcore pvp nerd in order to compete. which as i said, if it were call of duty, i would have no problem with you saying so , as a game like that deliberately has no levels because it's intentionally designed for pvp. the PVE campaign side of the game is single player only. but this is elder scrolls, pve and roleplay are going to be massive parts of this game whether you like it or not. there will be questing, there will be lore - so maybe you're the one that needs to suck it up and reconsider your opinion on the matter as well as where you stand in the grand scheme of things.

DAOC SAYS HI.

lao

smokes wrote: »

lao wrote: »

and who decided how the leveling process was intended to be done? you?

it's fairly common knowledge these days that mmo's that require a grind to hit max level dont last the distance - so to assume that ZoS intended for grinding to be the way to level is just stupid. of course questing was the intention, it's elder scrolls, not aion.

mmos that have failed in the past did so for entirely different reasons but im not going into that now. just believe me when i say its not cos of grind.

lao wrote: »

ill break this down for you in a way even you should be able to understand it.

theres 2 ways of lvling up in this game.

1) questing - slow, buggy, annoying

2) grinding - fast, straight forward, abit less annoying

both are viable and it is common knowledge that grinding is faster. ergo most ppl will grind. cos ya know most ppl will go the fast and less annoying route. only roleplayers will quest for the lore and ***.

just because it's faster to grind does not mean that the majority of the playerbase will play the game that way. again, you make assumptions that everyone playing this game is here to pvp to the leet max - which just isn't the case - the large majority of ESO players will be fans of the elder scrolls RPG series.

therefore "roleplayers" as you put it are likely the majority playerbase.

again it doesnt matter where the game came from or what it was before. it is an mmo now and those who play them serious will always go for the most efficient way to lvl up. believe it or not but most serious players hate pve in any shape and will do everything to get it over with asap. there is nothing u can do about that. if u wanna compete with them u have to play like them. really simple.

also to clarify:
someone who does quests and pays attention to lore is not a "roleplayer". that term is reserved for those who play the game in character.

there's a big difference. i dont do roleplay. neither do a lot of the people i've encountered ingame.

the term roleplayer is simply used to differentiate between the serious crowd and the non serious crowd. if u choose to do quests over grind when questing is so much slower it indicates that ur caring about the story and lore. in other words u play it as an RPG which makes u a rolepalyer. pvp players do not play the game as an RPG. the entire leveling process is just a nessecary evil but no1 of those players does actually enjoy any of it.

also - a lot of the bugs have been fixed.

and alot are still remaining

lao wrote: »

again both ways are fine, to each his own etc.

absolutely - if you want to grind, go ahead - i am not here to try and stop you - however, i am here to try and separate people like you who do intend to grind to max level and essentially skip 95% of the content of this game, from those who wish to experience the content - in cyrodiil.

as that was the whole point of the original post - to separate the "leet" veteran rank 10 players who hit VR10 within 2 days of the servers opening, from those who will actually play the game, like a game, not a job.

splitting up pvp is never a good idea simply because this game, just like any modern mmo will lose 80% of its playerbase within the first 3 months. infact that entire point u made is flawed and ill explain why. lets think of a pve endgame raid. you wouldnt demand that u could join those at l10 either, would you? pvp is endgame content just like raid dungeons are.

wouldn't you prefer to play against other vet rank players? have some proper competitive pvp? proper strategies etc? instead of facing large zerg groups who are mostly full of new players learning the ropes, which you then steamroll through because they hardly stand a chance.

there is no competitive pvp or strategies in this game that are worth mentioning. would i prefer to fight more vet ranked players? sure they give more alliance points. i will not hold back when some1 decides to jump into pvp at low level tho. they knew what they were getting themself into. in the old and actually good mmos this wasnt even a question. ud level to max lvl and gear up or ud be food. period. back then no1 had a problem with that. it was commonly accepted. why is it a problem now?

lao wrote: »

now you come along and demand of everyone to go the slow and annoying quest route so u who is ignorant and refuses to grind can compete with them in pvp and u cry about everyone who chooses not to go through the tedious slow and buggy and annoying quest grind. and then u tell them to find another mmo? rofl dude maybe its YOU who should just go back to skyrim cos all mmos have always been like that. if there is an actual choice between quest and grind then 90% of mmo players will always choose grind simply cos its alot less annoying and works better in a group. if u havent noticed yet the point of mmos is to play with other ppl.

i'm sorry, at which point did i demand everyone should quest to max level?

i didn't - i merely suggested that those who intend to bypass 95% of the content to get into pvp and pwn noobs, should be separated from those who wish to play the game via the "intended" levelling process of doing quests.

again splitting up pvp population is always bad and always leads to an evcen quicker death of the game.

i mean jeez, why would the developers put so much time and effort developing ESO for 5 years, if everybody was supposed to grind their way to max level in 2 days and pvp? have you ever listened to any of the dev interviews? as i said, we might as well be given 300 skillpoints and start at max level if that was the intention - this is where your assumption that everyone should grind is so horribly wrong. why have they increased XP gains from pvp? and have suggested they might increase it again? it's so that those of you who only want to pvp can pvp to max level without the need grind quests.

the xp gains in pvp are still beyond horrible. its not a valid way to level up at all. they spent so much time on developing quests cos its an elder scrolls game and ppl like u would go batshit insane if they didnt have that ingame. doesnt mean that it should be the way everyone should level. i never said everyone should grind. i said if u wanna compete with the best u have to do what they do. u cant pick an obviously ineffective way and then demand to be on par with them. thats just stupid.

any recent game that required a grind to max level has failed, it would be very silly of ZoS to release a game with that mindset - i know they are new to mmo's but jeez, that would be a proper noob mistake to make.

again none of them have failed because of the grind.

lao wrote: »

and dont give me that " like the developers intended" crap. obviously they intended the majority to grind and just put the quests in for you roleplayers or why do u think grinding is so much faster? you think that happened by accident? lol no it didnt.

lol - as i just pointed out above, intending your players to grind to max level is a recipe for disaster. only asian mmo's do this, any western mmo in the past 5 years that has tried this has failed horrendously.

i actually wonder what mmos ur talking about. i cant recall a single one that was a factor where grind would be the fastest way to level. but then again thats not why modern mmos fail.

lao wrote: »

so yea its quite simple, adapt to it, suck it up and start grinding or quest ur way to max level and deal with the fact that ull be outlevelled in pvp or find another game.

its already bad enough that ur forced to quest at VR levels and i promise u that will lead to alot of ppl quitting the game. infact i know a few that pretty much quitted already cos they are forced to quest at 50 and lets be honest what sane person wants to do that.

what sane person wants to grind to VR10 in order to pvp? you apparently dude! do you not see the hyperbole you are wrapped up in?

this game is made up of 3 separate types of players: pve, pvp and roleplay.

pvp - kills other players
pve - kills monsters, does quests, reads lore
roleplay - plays "in character" and doesn't just read lore, but actively tries to take part in it.

you assume, that everyone playing this game is only in it for the pvp - which is incredibly ignorant towards the other 2 types of players.

then why would a change be needed. why do u wanna cater to a crowd which as u say urself doesnt have their prime focus on pvp? they can level slowly and still pvp once they reach max level. as pvp is not the thing they play the game for it shouldnt matter.

so to suggest that some, not all, of the cyrodiil campaigns have veteran rank only rules, or non-veteran rank only rules - goes to serve the other 2 types of player that wish to experience pvp.

again why should we cater to their needs? if we do that then i want a skip pve button that gives me instant vr10 and legendary gear and 300 skillpoints cos ya know i dont want to pve. see why this wont work?

how would you like it, if your first ever experience of pvp, in your first ever mmo, was constant death from a VR10 player who is seemingly indestructable?
do you really have no empathy towards other players, that you would prefer that they suck it up, grind to VR10 and then finally do some pvp, rather than dip in and out whilst they level?

that is actually exactly how its supposed to be. we need to stop wrapping new players in cotton. if u do that it generates players like this new generation of mmo players that whine until they get everything exactly how they want it to be. this is what kills modern mmos one after the other, not the grind.

can you really be so ignorant as to think that everybody see's the game in the same way that you do? and if not, they should have to suck it up? what percentage of the playerbase do you believe has actually "sucked it up" and levelled to VR10 in this way? i think you'd be suprised, you and your VR10 grinding buddies are in the minority.

everybody else is still questing, "roleplaying", crafting, farming skyshards and generally learning how to play. not everyone is leet, not everyone has been playing mmo's for years and not everyone wants to be steamrolled by a VR10 on their first entrance into pvp at level 10.

no im fully aware that only a minority sees the game as i do. that doesnt mean that we should change anything so the pve crowd can have fun in pvp. the only ppl that should be listened to regarding pvp are pvp players. u never see a pvp player make demands about pve changes. like literally never. why does it happen all the time the other way around?

also i wanna point out that i dont have a vr10 char. i stopped at vr8 cos i couldnt stand the quest grind anymore. i didnt come here and make a forum thread about it tho. i just accepted it.

a group of VR10's laying waste to level 10's isn't fair gameplay and you know that, don't even try and pretend it's fair, because you know it isn't - even scaled to level 50, a level 10 doesn't even have weapon swap, let alone enough abilities to fill their first action bar.

no ofc its not fair but they knew what they getting themself into. its not a hardcore open world pvp game where u can get killed at any time during pve so ur point is invalid.

separating the new players from the veterans will only help this game succeed - especially if ZoS are selective with the campaigns they apply it to. all i'm asking for here is to give new mmo players the chance to get involved and see how things work, whilst at least standing some sort of chance against the enemy.

thats where u went wrong. seperating stuff will not help the game succeed. it actually kills the game. prime example: swtor. that game insta died the moment they introduced the l10-49 bracket. u never ever wanna split pvp population.

whilst you seem to be asking everybody to step it up and go super hardcore pvp nerd in order to compete. which as i said, if it were call of duty, i would have no problem with you saying so , as a game like that deliberately has no levels because it's intentionally designed for pvp. the PVE campaign side of the game is single player only. but this is elder scrolls, pve and roleplay are going to be massive parts of this game whether you like it or not. there will be questing, there will be lore - so maybe you're the one that needs to suck it up and reconsider your opinion on the matter as well as where you stand in the grand scheme of things.

what exactly do you think this game is designed for? or any mmo for that matter. pve is always over at some point. the only endless content in mmos is pvp. what u gonna do when u hit vr10 and have full legendary gear? exactly u go pvp cos theres nothing else to do in pve anymore.
im not saying everyone should go "super hardcore pvp nerd" most ppl cant do that even if they wanted due to job/family etc. all im asking for is that those who cant do it stop making demands that dumb down pvp for those who can.
casuals are not exactly new to mmos, even tho they were a much much smaller crowd 10 years ago. they found ways to compete with the "pros" back then so i dont see why they cant now. just running in a bigger group will go a long way.

theres nothing wrong with ppl questing. they pay their sub they can play however they feel like. all im asking for is that they dont try to change stuff that directly effects our preferred playstyle in a bad way. just like we dont try to change the pve aspect of the game. and let me assure you, most of us dont enjoy pve AT ALL. however we do suck it up and get it over with and we do so without complaining about it on the forums.