Separate Veteran's from Normal

Valaska

I'm still shocked these people don't understand the reason the numbers are low is because PVP completely turns new players off from it by absolutely freaking *** facing them with a power gap...

Int he Beta even, with less population than the game has now, PVP was extremely active, you seen level 10's to 40's and it was GOOD. The one or two V ranks would come in and wreck everyone around them more or less just because they chose to ignore the crap ton of story Zenimax obviously meant for you to play (are you seriously that stupid to say Grinding is something they wanted?? They even put loot timers on bosses etc haha) but I digress, the PVP was active for awhile until people twinked out and cheesed.

The cheesers are ruining PVP and driving new players out from it, THIS IS WHY IT IS DYING. Silly people who can't connect the dots.

Theron75

What this guy said ^

I joined this game for the PvP. Let's face it, "content" only lasts for so long, and then there's no interest in it anymore...unless you're one of those fanboy lorechaser types. PvP is where a game's longevity comes from. But, I digress.

Been PvPing since level 10 (now 29) and it's okay until you're either overrun by the zerg or a veteran shows up. I've always been able to hold my own in any fight, but when the V's enter the fray, the fun ends. Most of the time you're dead before you even know what hit you.

Officially unsubbed. Still playing from time to time, and if they make some changes before my time runs out, I'll re-sub. Not likely.

moXrox

lao wrote: »

heres the solution. it might sound like rocket science to you. go lvl up and stop expecting to beat vr10´s at l30.

What about adjusting the pvp buffs for lower levels instead sending them back left with frustration ?

cortechsnub18_ESO

Valaska wrote: »

I'm still shocked these people don't understand the reason the numbers are low is because PVP completely turns new players off from it by absolutely freaking *** facing them with a power gap...

No, they do not get it. There are loads of players who would be playing, which is why merging is not a real solution, and is only a band-aid fix for the problem.

The goal should be getting the players back in, not merging servers and creating a vet-only playground.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

It never fails to amaze me that a level 10 will complain about not being on even footing as someone VR10. Stop crying OP, go level up, get better, and then come back

BrassRazoo

If it stops the rivers of tears about PvP .. Do it.

roflcopter

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

It never fails to amaze me that a level 10 will complain about not being on even footing as someone VR10. Stop crying OP, go level up, get better, and then come back

So what your saying is there should be a different zone for people under vet? PVP was suppose to be scaled in this game. If this is the attitude of most Vets either Zen should raise the cap for Cyrodiil entry or split zones.

He shouldn't have to level up if he / she doesn't want to. Stop justifying EZ mode for us higher level players and think about whats going on here. Stop the lower levels from pvping because of balance, youll have and under populated area of high level people and a bunch of people who got sick of it at a low level and just refuse to join. It would be really empty.

But your pro, what do I know.

Soraka

When I join PVP on a low level character I really don't expect to be as effective as someone higher level. I still do my best to contribute in some way. I don't really agree that there needs to be segregated PVP purely based on Vet vs Non-vet. Seems more like an attitude problem. If you expect to be able to do everything a Vet 10 can do you're probably going to end up disappointed... I'm not saying "go level up and come back" I'm just saying be realistic with what you think you can or should be able to do. Toe to toe with a vet 10 is not realistic.

That said I would like to be able to see more progress within PVP. I don't want to grind quests only for XP. Maybe it's because I just heal in PVP, but I can't make any level progress whatsoever. Slightly off-topic, I guess.

lao

Soraka wrote: »

When I join PVP on a low level character I really don't expect to be as effective as someone higher level. I still do my best to contribute in some way. I don't really agree that there needs to be segregated PVP purely based on Vet vs Non-vet. Seems more like an attitude problem. If you expect to be able to do everything a Vet 10 can do you're probably going to end up disappointed... I'm not saying "go level up and come back" I'm just saying be realistic with what you think you can or should be able to do. Toe to toe with a vet 10 is not realistic.

That said I would like to be able to see more progress within PVP. I don't want to grind quests only for XP. Maybe it's because I just heal in PVP, but I can't make any level progress whatsoever. Slightly off-topic, I guess.

thank you.

you actually gave me some hope in humanity back.

Valaska

BrassRazoo wrote: »

If it stops the rivers of tears about PvP .. Do it.

Its not about stopping the "river of tears" its about bringing reviving and getting people back into PVP so it isn't so damn dead.

Soraka wrote: »

When I join PVP on a low level character I really don't expect to be as effective as someone higher level. I still do my best to contribute in some way. I don't really agree that there needs to be segregated PVP purely based on Vet vs Non-vet. Seems more like an attitude problem. If you expect to be able to do everything a Vet 10 can do you're probably going to end up disappointed... I'm not saying "go level up and come back" I'm just saying be realistic with what you think you can or should be able to do. Toe to toe with a vet 10 is not realistic.

That said I would like to be able to see more progress within PVP. I don't want to grind quests only for XP. Maybe it's because I just heal in PVP, but I can't make any level progress whatsoever. Slightly off-topic, I guess.

That's the problem, this game stated it would scale you to be competitive period, but Vet 10's Advantage is insurmountable, and they are driving people out of PVP. I am leveled up now and able to kill Vet 5's etc, but its still a ridiculous gap, I can literally be dominating a fight and one potion from them can take away everything I've done, then I have to do it again. Quite a few of these Vet's are Recruits for god sake, and able to just rely on their grindfest.

Its horrible that the Vet 10's honestly can't compete against their own ranking and are so adverse to splitting the two just to get people back into PVP. Regardless THEIR feelings, it is undeniable people are leaving PVP because of this level gap, or simply not going into it because they hear the horror stories.

Kewljag_66_ESO

Theron75 wrote: »

What this guy said ^

I joined this game for the PvP. Let's face it, "content" only lasts for so long, and then there's no interest in it anymore...unless you're one of those fanboy lorechaser types. PvP is where a game's longevity comes from. But, I digress.

Been PvPing since level 10 (now 29) and it's okay until you're either overrun by the zerg or a veteran shows up. I've always been able to hold my own in any fight, but when the V's enter the fray, the fun ends. Most of the time you're dead before you even know what hit you.

Officially unsubbed. Still playing from time to time, and if they make some changes before my time runs out, I'll re-sub. Not likely.

So get to level 50 and you will pretty much be on even playing fields..... Its really not that hard, do the quests in Cyrodiil and dungeon runs so you have your PVP mixed in with PVE

Valaska

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Theron75 wrote: »

What this guy said ^

I joined this game for the PvP. Let's face it, "content" only lasts for so long, and then there's no interest in it anymore...unless you're one of those fanboy lorechaser types. PvP is where a game's longevity comes from. But, I digress.

Been PvPing since level 10 (now 29) and it's okay until you're either overrun by the zerg or a veteran shows up. I've always been able to hold my own in any fight, but when the V's enter the fray, the fun ends. Most of the time you're dead before you even know what hit you.

Officially unsubbed. Still playing from time to time, and if they make some changes before my time runs out, I'll re-sub. Not likely.

So get to level 50 and you will pretty much be on even playing fields..... Its really not that hard, do the quests in Cyrodiil and dungeon runs so you have your PVP mixed in with PVE

Jesus christ... THIS IS WHY NO ONE IS PLAYING IN PVP and it will die out, because you NEED to leve- you know what I'm done you people are pants on head slow.

Nidwin

lao wrote: »

Only roleplayers will quest for the lore and ***.

Since when?

To my knowledge Role Players don't give a damn about quests. Just like PvPers and RvRers they'll do them if it's the fastest way to level up. If grinding is faster Role Players will grind up their levels by farming NPC's.

1. They already know the Lore.
2. They'll adapt some part of the Lore to fill up the gaps and for their RP needs
3. Role Players are often good RvRers because of their natural gaming habit to stay in character and fight for their Realm. If it suites their character's role play of course. They can still opt to role play an arse, an idiot, a moron, traitor, ...

As for role playing and role play sessions. Let me explain you something you're going to

It can be Lore related but that's only a small part of role play sessions as it can also be

"Let's all go to Cyrodiil. Let's all go that keep there. Yep, that one in the middle of nowhere, our Realm is still holding, surrounded by all that enemy stuff and keeps. And once there let's all start to look for Betty's cat that went missing."

Or

"I've some terrible news from our General's. There's a shortage of fresh meat and salt for our troops in Cyrodiil. We have been charged to contact our enemies to see if they can spare some meat or salt for our troops."

Or

"We have been informed traitors have infiltrated our troops in Cyrodiil. We are ordered to investigate and interrogate our mighty troops as soon as possible."

Good luck, have fun hardcore, elite PvP brah.

smokes

lao wrote: »

many words, big quote, much trimmed.

you make some fair points there - before it felt like you were just trolling me, but this time, decent points were made.

i'll actually concede on the low level/VR split idea - purely because of your SWTOR argument, but to be fair, SWTOR failed for a lot more reasons than it's pvp, also, SWtor was server based, had battlegroups etc - whereas ESO is megaserver and you choose your own campaign - it's a bit different, but i get your argument.

also, with the point you make regarding how pve'ers like to impose on pvp gameplay - in ESO at the moment, thats because thats all there is at endgame - VR quest yourself into mind numbing boredom, or pvp. once there's actual raid content to get stuck into, you'll likely see even less people in pvp. but then the grind to VR10 also makes the amount of raiders questionable too.

maybe, as one of the later posters pointed out, buffing the buff lower levels get might be a better idea. i understand you probably wont like that either - but coming into pvp as a level 12 last night on my sorc, i was obliterated instantly by a VR10. for anyone that wants to stand a chance at levelling through pvp, you need to stand a chance against your enemies, as killing players in pvp is the most profitable in terms of XP. (during early access i actually did a few levels in pvp, i could actually kill people, then all the VR exploiters/grinders came in on day2 and the dynamic instantly changed. can't say the batswarm bug helped much either)

that was my first pvp combat experience on my sorc last night, me, level 12, against a VR10. i lasted half a second, literally, half a second. the gear disparity between a VR10 and a level 12, let alone the ability+passives separation, really does imbalance things.

given a defensive position on a keep wall, i could stay alive for a while as a level 12 - but any kind of open combat and you're cannon fodder, not even in a good way. it's one thing to ride on horseback for 10 mins, fight for a minute, then die and make the run again. but when it's frequently run for 10 mins, die instantly, run for 10 mins it gets old real fast and the requirement to be VR1 to stand a chance, let alone VR10 to be competitive is very prominent. you're not even able to get enough damage out to tag opposing targets for the kill quest at level 12. i spent an hour last night trying to get kills on my sorc, i had 5 by the time i gave up, mostly by hitting enemies at range for like 1 or 2% of hp - i must've died 20 odd times to vet rank players. it's not like i was playing aggresively either - i was trying to stay alive and put out as much damage as possible whilst picking my fights - but was frequently 1 shot by vets, even 1 Vs 1. (obv a VR10 will have a distinct advantage, but 1-shot... whilst being able to do maybe 1 or 2% damage to them)

so whilst i agree that maybe splitting the 1-50's from the VR1-10 might be a bad idea, the disparity between the levellers and the pro's needs addressing somehow. you can't just say, "thats pvp, thats how it is" - as whilst pvp is the main endgame at the moment, it affects everybody that wants to play ESO. with craglorn coming out soon and 2 more vet ranks being added, it'll only to serve to widen the gap further and drive away more "would be" pvp'ers.

i'll also point out that i come from WoW, i've been raiding there for 7 years - guild master, raid leader and was fairly hardcore) but i barely ever pvp'd in WoW. mostly because i hated the maps and setup - ESO pvp does offer something new that i'd never experienced before as i never played DAoC and i fell in love with it on the beta, mostly due to the need for actual strategy and teamwork - however, on the beta it was an entirely different experience because everyone was level 10-20 and combat was a lot more equal and you could actually stay alive in combat for more than a second.

it's that essence of the gameplay i would hope to restore for everybody, otherwise you might as well stop lower levels from entering pvp at all - i want ESO to succeed - i truly do, both for the pve and the pvp, but there has to be some changes to pvp to accomodate that for the lower levels, as they are simply getting obliterated by VR10's to the point where i doubt it's even much fun for the VR's.

once the game has matured a bit and more people have higher level characters, better crafting skills and whatnot, i'd love to think lower levels in twinked gear might stand more of a chance - but in truth, they'll only ever stand a chance against players of their own level, unless the scaling of lower levels improves. in order for it to mature though, it needs to survive and as it is, it's seemingly driving people away.

so yea, whilst i might be into pve - the only choices i have ingame at the moment is questing or pvp. actually, at low level, it's not much of a choice, it's quest, or be cannon fodder in pvp. it's the same choice at vet rank too, but exponentially worse for xp gain. VR quest yourself into mind numbing oblivion by doing twice the amount of content needed to hit level 50, grind mobs in a group, do vet dungeons once each for the xp, or pvp, with slightly more of a chance at staying alive.

but as for the "option" to grind - seriously, i have no problem if people want to grind to max level, it's the mindset of "i must grind to max level to be competitive" that worries me - as this can easily lead to burn out and but also forces that style of gameplay onto others in order to remain competitive, it's a snowball effect - some people like that playstyle, but a lot of people don't. it's damaging to the game when you feel forced to grind mobs to VR10 to be competitive in pvp, because it's the fastest way, because you dont stand a chance otherwise. it detracts from the rest of the game and all the effort put into it (ok pvp might be all you are here for and if thats your way of climbing the mountain, so be it, but once it's grind or die for anyone that wants to pvp, it stops being a choice and becomes mandatory - which will only be exacerbated when vet rank levels are increased).

tbh, there needs to be some greater balancing between the pve and pvp side of levelling, especially at veteran ranks, but the survivability of lower levels in pvp also needs addressing.

honestly, i'm starting to wonder wtf zenimax were thinking when they implemented the veteran levels, especially as they're increasing them again with craglorn. but thats probably a discussion for another thread - would be nice if they were a bit more upfront with their "vision" for engame - i'd like to know they do at least have a plan, because if quest grind or mob grind to VR10 is the only option, they're gonna suffer some major sub losses.

also i'm still not a roleplayer. i'm a raider and as much as i'm itching for craglorn raid content - the prospect of questing to VR10, or grinding to VR10 isn't floating my boat, which is a damned shame, ESO has huge potential and i'd hate to see them squander it.

lao

smokes wrote: »

lao wrote: »

many words, big quote, much trimmed.

maybe, as one of the later posters pointed out, buffing the buff lower levels get might be a better idea. i understand you probably wont like that either - but coming into pvp as a level 12 last night on my sorc, i was obliterated instantly by a VR10. for anyone that wants to stand a chance at levelling through pvp, you need to stand a chance against your enemies, as killing players in pvp is the most profitable in terms of XP. (during early access i actually did a few levels in pvp, i could actually kill people, then all the VR exploiters/grinders came in on day2 and the dynamic instantly changed. can't say the batswarm bug helped much either)

that was my first pvp combat experience on my sorc last night, me, level 12, against a VR10. i lasted half a second, literally, half a second. the gear disparity between a VR10 and a level 12, let alone the ability+passives separation, really does imbalance things.

you´re right there is a power gap but then again if there wasnt what would even be the point of having levels? there has to be a power gap otherwise the game will lose the mmo aspect and we would just be palying counterstrike with swords and magic. i wouldnt mind if they made lowbies slightly stronger as ofc its not very fun 3-shotting them all the time but then u also have to consider that you´re not supposed to 1v1 as a lowbie. a couple of lowbies can easily kill a vet ranked player if they play well.

given a defensive position on a keep wall, i could stay alive for a while as a level 12 - but any kind of open combat and you're cannon fodder, not even in a good way. it's one thing to ride on horseback for 10 mins, fight for a minute, then die and make the run again. but when it's frequently run for 10 mins, die instantly, run for 10 mins it gets old real fast and the requirement to be VR1 to stand a chance, let alone VR10 to be competitive is very prominent. you're not even able to get enough damage out to tag opposing targets for the kill quest at level 12. i spent an hour last night trying to get kills on my sorc, i had 5 by the time i gave up, mostly by hitting enemies at range for like 1 or 2% of hp - i must've died 20 odd times to vet rank players. it's not like i was playing aggresively either - i was trying to stay alive and put out as much damage as possible whilst picking my fights - but was frequently 1 shot by vets, even 1 Vs 1. (obv a VR10 will have a distinct advantage, but 1-shot... whilst being able to do maybe 1 or 2% damage to them)

i dno, ive never oneshotted anyone in pvp. 2-shot happened like once on a magicka build lowbie sorc. normally its 3-shot but then again a vet ranked player (even vr10) is usually like 4-5 shot. as u can see the survivability is the smaller problem. the dmg difference between a lowbie and a vr10 guy is quite huge tho.

also that u have to grind to vr10 to be competitive is simply a lie. some1 posted this in another thread yday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8krLrYX2ugo&app=desktop

you can easily be ompetitive at vr2 as u can see. thats the problem with modern mmos. ppl crutch on levels and gear instead of actually learning how to play.

so whilst i agree that maybe splitting the 1-50's from the VR1-10 might be a bad idea, the disparity between the levellers and the pro's needs addressing somehow. you can't just say, "thats pvp, thats how it is" - as whilst pvp is the main endgame at the moment, it affects everybody that wants to play ESO. with craglorn coming out soon and 2 more vet ranks being added, it'll only to serve to widen the gap further and drive away more "would be" pvp'ers.

yes craglorn is a god awful idea. well craglorn itself isnt but increasing the VR cap definitely is. but yea exactly, pvp is the current endgame content so dno why it is that big of an issue if lowbies arent super competitive at it. making them abit stronger in terms of their dmg, sure np with that. bringing them on par with high vr players in good gear? hell no.

honestly, i'm starting to wonder wtf zenimax were thinking when they implemented the veteran levels, especially as they're increasing them again with craglorn. but thats probably a discussion for another thread - would be nice if they were a bit more upfront with their "vision" for engame - i'd like to know they do at least have a plan, because if quest grind or mob grind to VR10 is the only option, they're gonna suffer some major sub losses.

i doubt they thought about it at all tbh. i was hoping that the DAoC devs they have would tell them how awful the idea of vet levels is but appearantly meh. by now i think they didnt even consider it a problem cos they knew this game will die within 6 months just like any other modern fail mmo.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

OP just stop. We understand you want to be emperor at lvl 10, but it isnt going to happen. Just level up like everyone else but you does.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

Gisgo wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

campaigns are to small atm. This is why we DO NOT need structured PvP

Fixed.

RvR is always unfair unless you put 100+ hours to level up a toon.

At last structured you fight people your level.


But RvR fan boys are scared that once actual PvP gets added no one will want to play running simulator PvWall

lao

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

campaigns are to small atm. This is why we DO NOT need structured PvP

Fixed.

RvR is always unfair unless you put 100+ hours to level up a toon.

At last structured you fight people your level.


But RvR fan boys are scared that once actual PvP gets added no one will want to play running simulator PvWall

structured pvp is insanely boring tho. same maps, same terrain, same incs all the time zZzZZz. open world is where its at but it requires the players to have some honor and show some respect for competitive fights so they a) dont run in zergs b) dont hug objectives and c) dont add on ongoing fights. ppl respected that "code of honor" in DAoC but those were different times and MUCH better players overall.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

lao wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

campaigns are to small atm. This is why we DO NOT need structured PvP

Fixed.

RvR is always unfair unless you put 100+ hours to level up a toon.

At last structured you fight people your level.


But RvR fan boys are scared that once actual PvP gets added no one will want to play running simulator PvWall

structured pvp is insanely boring tho. same maps, same terrain, same incs all the time zZzZZz. open world is where its at but it requires the players to have some honor and show some respect for competitive fights so they a) dont run in zergs b) dont hug objectives and c) dont add on ongoing fights. ppl respected that "code of honor" in DAoC but those were different times and MUCH better players overall.

Mentioning a game that is empty compared to it's competition isn't a good path, ESO doesn't want to be DAOC. It has similarities but following DAOC will just let it go the same path but half of the DAOC fan boys came here for DAOC 2.

ESO views on twitch have dropped below countless MMO that guess what have structured PvP even gw2 streams are structured and very little are showing RvR.

Honestly RvR is fun but gets boring incredibly fast while games like league of legends and counter strike use this same map and such but people love it because it's PvP and not a walking simulator.

Honestly if RvR is so great why has it failed multiple times and games like Warhammer and gw2 add structured PvP to try and save them.

Tl;dr: this is a sub MMO with no options QQ

smokes

lao wrote: »

you can easily be ompetitive at vr2 as u can see. thats the problem with modern mmos. ppl crutch on levels and gear instead of actually learning how to play.

i personally am not having problems since hitting VR1, i've been playing these kinda games for long enough to not be clueless about what i am doing - in fact, i hold my own fairly well at VR3 now - i just have no realistic chance of actually killing a VR10 in full gear unless i get the drop on them, or have help - which is fair enough when you consider the gear difference - but then my issue in this thread has never been the 50+ side of pvp.

it's the early stages of pvp and people trying this game, wandering into pvp, getting battered and never wanting to go back - first impressions are lasting impressions. Whilst i appreciate the argument that separating 50+ from the 1-49 bracket in SWtor caused problems, ESO isn't exactly in the same boat and clever management of the campaigns would help with this. so it is an option, even if you don't agree with it.

lao wrote: »

yes craglorn is a god awful idea. well craglorn itself isnt but increasing the VR cap definitely is. but yea exactly, pvp is the current endgame content so dno why it is that big of an issue if lowbies arent super competitive at it. making them abit stronger in terms of their dmg, sure np with that. bringing them on par with high vr players in good gear? hell no.

this i agree with you on - it's not really about lowbies being super competitive, it's about living long enough to actually play a part - not just being cannon fodder. i've also seen loads of people requesting more viability to level in pvp (which was easier when the kill quest was repeatable and not daily)

a level 10 on par with a fully geared VR10 - is a bit silly.
a level 10 on par with a naked VR10 - maybe a bit less silly.

when you consider gear values, set pieces and enchants - the gear on a VR10 will make a ridiculously huge difference.

it'll be interesting to see which direction zenimax decide to go in

lao

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

lao wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

campaigns are to small atm. This is why we DO NOT need structured PvP

Fixed.

RvR is always unfair unless you put 100+ hours to level up a toon.

At last structured you fight people your level.


But RvR fan boys are scared that once actual PvP gets added no one will want to play running simulator PvWall

structured pvp is insanely boring tho. same maps, same terrain, same incs all the time zZzZZz. open world is where its at but it requires the players to have some honor and show some respect for competitive fights so they a) dont run in zergs b) dont hug objectives and c) dont add on ongoing fights. ppl respected that "code of honor" in DAoC but those were different times and MUCH better players overall.

Mentioning a game that is empty compared to it's competition isn't a good path, ESO doesn't want to be DAOC. It has similarities but following DAOC will just let it go the same path but half of the DAOC fan boys came here for DAOC 2.

ESO views on twitch have dropped below countless MMO that guess what have structured PvP even gw2 streams are structured and very little are showing RvR.

Honestly RvR is fun but gets boring incredibly fast while games like league of legends and counter strike use this same map and such but people love it because it's PvP and not a walking simulator.

Honestly if RvR is so great why has it failed multiple times and games like Warhammer and gw2 add structured PvP to try and save them.

Tl;dr: this is a sub MMO with no options QQ

DAoC is empty? it is 14 years old. in 14 years no1 will remember warhammer,eso and damn i already forgot what other trash game u mentioned lol. oh yea gw2 LOL.

if eso went the same way DAoC did that would be the best thing they could possibly imagine to happen. the best thing that would have happened to any mmo that came after DAoC. RvR never gets boring cos its technically the same thing as structured pvp just with alot more variables such as terrain, incs, the possibility to have bad groups add on your fight at any time. ofc it would require the good groups to respect each other and not add on each other. worked well in DAoC but again that was a different generation of gamers with much bigger brains and a much bigger sense of honor and fairplay.

Sureshawt

Yea they definitely failed to understand the power gap that certain players would create by leveling to VR10 so quickly.

The power gap alienates newer and casual players to the point of leaving either to PvE level or quit altogether. Either way they are gone from the alliance wars.

In addition, any new player will get will get a poor experience entering alliance wars now and in the future.

It seems me Zenimax has three options to restore and possibly grow the alliance war player base.

1) Separate the L50 and below from Vet ranks.
2) Increase the buff for pre-L50
3) Increase the ability to progress in PvP (more missions, greater xp rewards for the daily etc.)

Those of you defending leaving things as they are so you can farm low level players with your extreme power/gear advantage have your head in the sands.

I would think that most players would get more satisfaction from winning with superior skill and tactics (both group and solo). However, many are scared to lose their crutch and compete on an even playing field which is probably why they rushed to VR10 rank.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

lao wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

lao wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

campaigns are to small atm. This is why we DO NOT need structured PvP

Fixed.

RvR is always unfair unless you put 100+ hours to level up a toon.

At last structured you fight people your level.


But RvR fan boys are scared that once actual PvP gets added no one will want to play running simulator PvWall

structured pvp is insanely boring tho. same maps, same terrain, same incs all the time zZzZZz. open world is where its at but it requires the players to have some honor and show some respect for competitive fights so they a) dont run in zergs b) dont hug objectives and c) dont add on ongoing fights. ppl respected that "code of honor" in DAoC but those were different times and MUCH better players overall.

Mentioning a game that is empty compared to it's competition isn't a good path, ESO doesn't want to be DAOC. It has similarities but following DAOC will just let it go the same path but half of the DAOC fan boys came here for DAOC 2.

ESO views on twitch have dropped below countless MMO that guess what have structured PvP even gw2 streams are structured and very little are showing RvR.

Honestly RvR is fun but gets boring incredibly fast while games like league of legends and counter strike use this same map and such but people love it because it's PvP and not a walking simulator.

Honestly if RvR is so great why has it failed multiple times and games like Warhammer and gw2 add structured PvP to try and save them.

Tl;dr: this is a sub MMO with no options QQ

First of all a majority of people don't even know about DAOC.Angry Joe didn't even know about it actually a ton of people don't know about it since when people see AvA they say it looks like guild wars 2.

DAoC is empty? it is 14 years old. in 14 years no1 will remember warhammer,eso and damn i already forgot what other trash game u mentioned lol. oh yea gw2 LOL.

if eso went the same way DAoC did that would be the best thing they could possibly imagine to happen. the best thing that would have happened to any mmo that came after DAoC. RvR never gets boring cos its technically the same thing as structured pvp just with alot more variables such as terrain, incs, the possibility to have bad groups add on your fight at any time. ofc it would require the good groups to respect each other and not add on each other. worked well in DAoC but again that was a different generation of gamers with much bigger brains and a much bigger sense of honor and fairplay.

Being old doesn't make the game good. The game has like 3k members and the only reason it is able to stay alive on that pitiful number is because it is old and dated.

The reason ESO will fail is because the MMO market has changed.

Well the demography of MMO's has gone from the bunch of adults and serious players that made cohesive strategy and large scale PVP possible in DAoC to a bunch of sniveling young casuals that feel entitled to everything the game has offer.

That stuff probably worked in the day and trying use old outdated methods is not how you survive in this new MMO market.

ESO is a great game but it's trying to be yo many things it's trying to be DAOC, TES and ESO when it should just be ESO.


Also if be terrains is honestly what you think makes PvP fun then gw2 constant changing arenas and WoW and wildstar customizable arenas warplots pretty much destroy that argument.

lao

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

lao wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

lao wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

campaigns are to small atm. This is why we DO NOT need structured PvP

Fixed.

RvR is always unfair unless you put 100+ hours to level up a toon.

At last structured you fight people your level.


But RvR fan boys are scared that once actual PvP gets added no one will want to play running simulator PvWall

structured pvp is insanely boring tho. same maps, same terrain, same incs all the time zZzZZz. open world is where its at but it requires the players to have some honor and show some respect for competitive fights so they a) dont run in zergs b) dont hug objectives and c) dont add on ongoing fights. ppl respected that "code of honor" in DAoC but those were different times and MUCH better players overall.

Mentioning a game that is empty compared to it's competition isn't a good path, ESO doesn't want to be DAOC. It has similarities but following DAOC will just let it go the same path but half of the DAOC fan boys came here for DAOC 2.

ESO views on twitch have dropped below countless MMO that guess what have structured PvP even gw2 streams are structured and very little are showing RvR.

Honestly RvR is fun but gets boring incredibly fast while games like league of legends and counter strike use this same map and such but people love it because it's PvP and not a walking simulator.

Honestly if RvR is so great why has it failed multiple times and games like Warhammer and gw2 add structured PvP to try and save them.

Tl;dr: this is a sub MMO with no options QQ

First of all a majority of people don't even know about DAOC.Angry Joe didn't even know about it actually a ton of people don't know about it since when people see AvA they say it looks like guild wars 2.

DAoC is empty? it is 14 years old. in 14 years no1 will remember warhammer,eso and damn i already forgot what other trash game u mentioned lol. oh yea gw2 LOL.

if eso went the same way DAoC did that would be the best thing they could possibly imagine to happen. the best thing that would have happened to any mmo that came after DAoC. RvR never gets boring cos its technically the same thing as structured pvp just with alot more variables such as terrain, incs, the possibility to have bad groups add on your fight at any time. ofc it would require the good groups to respect each other and not add on each other. worked well in DAoC but again that was a different generation of gamers with much bigger brains and a much bigger sense of honor and fairplay.

Being old doesn't make the game good. The game has like 3k members and the only reason it is able to stay alive on that pitiful number is because it is old and dated.

The reason ESO will fail is because the MMO market has changed.

Well the demography of MMO's has gone from the bunch of adults and serious players that made cohesive strategy and large scale PVP possible in DAoC to a bunch of sniveling young casuals that feel entitled to everything the game has offer.

That stuff probably worked in the day and trying use old outdated methods is not how you survive in this new MMO market.

ESO is a great game but it's trying to be yo many things it's trying to be DAOC, TES and ESO when it should just be ESO.


Also if be terrains is honestly what you think makes PvP fun then gw2 constant changing arenas and WoW and wildstar customizable arenas warplots pretty much destroy that argument.

let me guess. u come from WoW?

driosketch

There a couple contributing issues at play here.

First, the game is trying to do two things that are counter to each other. Try and level the playing field for the lower levels, while giving vets a sense of progression. That's not a hypothetical, this is the design of PvP they went with. Theses two design mechanics cause stress against one another, where if the balance is wrong, the affected side feels cheated. This strain will only continue as they add more vet ranks and increase the NPCs to V5.

Right now low levels can be effective in PvP, provided they run with the pack. Actually having them in Cyrodiil contributes to the zerging. Which is fine. PvP is most fun when you have a good population. The problem occurs when you have low pop campaigns, in particular unbalanced campaigns.

You don't need to tell anyone to leave. They will do so on there own, either returning to PvE or joining another campaign. This is how players become discouraged and abandon a campaign to die.

Now knowing this and thinking outside the box, the solution isn't necessarily tiered campaigns, not on it's own at least. The would empty out the vet campaigns with no guarantee low level still wouldn't leave to do PvE. The solution to this problem of unhappiness is to reduce and consolidate the number of campaigns. Because I feel this is more a symptom of unbalanced campaigns than level balance.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

[/quote]

let me guess. u come from WoW?[/quote]
I've played countless MMO the games I played before ESO was dota 2 and starcraft 2 you know games were you get to enjoy PvP without playing a running simulator just to PvWall

roflcopter

Just raise the cap on entry to PVP so everyone can set their expectations. If there can be no balance to where most are viable, it isn't even worth a conversation or thread. The more this goes on the more will be sick or frustrated with PVP.

This game / PVP has a ton of potential, but if this continues too many people will be left with an extremely bad taste in their mouths because of it.

Who cares who is right or wrong, its obvious that something is a miss. Raising the cap in the interim would benefit everyone atm until they do something that would satisfy most.

lao

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

let me guess. u come from WoW?[/quote]
I've played countless MMO the games I played before ESO was dota 2 and starcraft 2 you know games were you get to enjoy PvP without playing a running simulator just to PvWall

[/quote]

ok so in other words u have not the slightest clue what DAoC was like. yet u say its bad.

cohesive play and large scale pvp in daoc? that game has never been about large scale pvp......

please do not talk about stuff u have no experience in, let alone been in a top tier group.

PS: im not trying to be aggressive its just u put the best mmo there ever was and ever will be in a bad light with your comments based on a lack of knowledge about the game. no1 who hasnt played the game for minimum 5 years and been part of dominant group can really comment about it in a way that actually mirrors reality. especially when it comes to balance. that game was extremely complex and not easy to master. it takes years of highly competitive play to get to the level where the best groups are at. and before u reached that level u cant rly make any judgements on balance. its the exact same thing as in sc2. u wouldnt listen to a plat level player whining about balance either.

PSS: and dont even get me started about angry joe. that guy is a full scale moron that has zero qualification to talk about any mmo at all. just look at his eso review and ull see what i mean. he makes up strong opinions based on the experience he gathered from playing his l15 character. most of what he says in his 38 mins review is simply incorrect and im surprised zenimax hasnt sued him yet for spreading that much false information about their game.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

lao wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

let me guess. u come from WoW?

I've played countless MMO the games I played before ESO was dota 2 and starcraft 2 you know games were you get to enjoy PvP without playing a running simulator just to PvWall

[/quote]

ok so in other words u have not the slightest clue what DAoC was like. yet u say its bad.

cohesive play and large scale pvp in daoc? that game has never been about large scale pvp......

please do not talk about stuff u have no experience in, let alone been in a top tier group.

PS: im not trying to be aggressive its just u put the best mmo there ever was and ever will be in a bad light with your comments based on a lack of knowledge about the game. no1 who hasnt played the game for minimum 5 years and been part of dominant group can really comment about it in a way that actually mirrors reality. especially when it comes to balance. that game was extremely complex and not easy to master. it takes years of highly competitive play to get to the level where the best groups are at. and before u reached that level u cant rly make any judgements on balance. its the exact same thing as in sc2. u wouldnt listen to a plat level player whining about balance either.

PSS: and dont even get me started about angry joe. that guy is a full scale moron that has zero qualification to talk about any mmo at all. just look at his eso review and ull see what i mean. he makes up strong opinions based on the experience he gathered from playing his l15 character. most of what he says in his 38 mins review is simply incorrect and im surprised zenimax hasnt sued him yet for spreading that much false information about their game.[/quote]

I've played Warhammer and gw2. Also stop bringing up DAOC like it is amazing you sound like an unreal tournament player who is playing CoD or CS then acting like that game is relevant it failed to keep up for a reason.

The reason I bring up Joe is because he is the standard casual and those casuals will keep the game alive.

DAOC was probably good at it's time but times have changed and you sometimes have to forget about your nostalgia and just cherish them add memories.

What exactly is ESO lacking that DAOC doesn't have and what does it need to improve on.

zoetaz1616

PvP's not dead, it just moved into the forums