Separate Veteran's from Normal

Valaska

Title says it all, I saw a rank 10 veteran vampire wipe out my entire raiding party of 20-30's. I was constantly critical charging him, but he was able to do bats and invisible so rapidly we couldn't stun him, couldn't hit him, even when we were hitting him it did nothing. We literally brought him to half health when he outright killed us.

This is crappy, very crappy, new players won't be able to do a thing in PVP, I've tried going 1v1 against legendary 1's even, I can be solidly hitting them and all they do is shield... Then bash me to death because I simply CAN NOT do enough damage to them even when they don't have their shields up.

lao

heres the solution. it might sound like rocket science to you. go lvl up and stop expecting to beat vr10´s at l30.

deathly809_ESO

I agree with @lao on this one.

Faolanhart

Oh noes, those level 60 players are more powerful than level 30 players, nobody saw that one coming.
A bunch of people want to be vampires because they can be pretty OP right now if built the right way.
But just like you shouldn't expect to beat Riften at level 20-30, don't expect to beat level 50-60 characters at that level.
Experience comes into it also, those who have played longer than others will be more experienced.
Then there is the good leader & teamwork vs bad leader & teamwork.
Leave PVP until you are a higher level or find a big team with good teamwork & a good leader.

Kolache

If you're telling him to just leave PvP until he levels up, why would you care if he could go to a sub-VR campaign to PvP instead? Either way he's gone from your campaign; what does it matter to you?

dahl.lucas_ESO

Well, on one note, them vamps are very strong . Without fighter guild, everyone would be forced to be vamps. I am sure some of these things will be changed but it's gonna be a long time before that happens.

Sihnfahl

Fighter's Guild, fire sorcs and DKs of any stripe.

lao

Kolache wrote: »

If you're telling him to just leave PvP until he levels up, why would you care if he could go to a sub-VR campaign to PvP instead? Either way he's gone from your campaign; what does it matter to you?

simple, splitting up population into too many sub zones kills pvp alltogether. same thing happened in SWTOR at release when they seperated the 1-49 bracket and l50 bracket. the l50 queue was dead for like a month cos it took the casuals forever to hit 50. it was somewhat reasonable there since warzones are 8v8 but in eso it makes absolutely no sense.
ppl just need to stop crying for once and level up instead or if they cba to do that atleast realize that they gonna be food until they do. in any case stop crying jesus.

skarvika

lao wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

If you're telling him to just leave PvP until he levels up, why would you care if he could go to a sub-VR campaign to PvP instead? Either way he's gone from your campaign; what does it matter to you?

simple, splitting up population into too many sub zones kills pvp alltogether. same thing happened in SWTOR at release when they seperated the 1-49 bracket and l50 bracket. the l50 queue was dead for like a month cos it took the casuals forever to hit 50. it was somewhat reasonable there since warzones are 8v8 but in eso it makes absolutely no sense.
ppl just need to stop crying for once and level up instead or if they cba to do that atleast realize that they gonna be food until they do. in any case stop crying jesus.

Yeah and that's still more or less the case because anyone non-vet is nothing more than cannon fodder. Most of the servers are deserted almost 24/7 now.
So more or less, what you get to do is sit in a corner circlejerking about how 1337 you are while nobody wants to pvp anymore and there aren't enough vets to make things very interesting which makes pvping practically useless for low AND high level players.

Jonnymorrow

lao wrote: »

heres the solution. it might sound like rocket science to you. go lvl up and stop expecting to beat vr10´s at l30.

What he said.

Separating the community is a bad bad idea. And will ruin the already average pvp.

You sir need to level up, it's fair that a vr10 should wipe the floor with you in my opinion. Too many games give no reward to high level players in pvp it's about time they were stronger.

Kolache

Everyone is already separated by campaigns. Unless you're proposing that all campaigns be merged into a single campaign, I don't see how it's any different to put a level cap on one of the campaigns.

tengri

Separating the "community" is actually a very good idea.
Let the power-leveler duke it out in their own domain and create PvP zones for the more casual player, too.

Yeah, yeah, we get it.
You all quickly took advantage of every single XP exploit and/or grinded your asses 24/7 all the way to the top to show off your virtual *****. You stop for nothing and certainly not for PvE content or quests which could only slow you down. We are in awe!
And now of course you want to "own" all those low lives slow levelers who are not as tough and dedicated as yourself. Perfectly understandable.

But guess what - those who really want to play with or against you are already by your side. However... most of the "slow" ones dont want to play with you at all.
Non-VR PvP campaigns ftw!

Valaska

Faolanhart wrote: »

Oh noes, those level 60 players are more powerful than level 30 players, nobody saw that one coming.
A bunch of people want to be vampires because they can be pretty OP right now if built the right way.
But just like you shouldn't expect to beat Riften at level 20-30, don't expect to beat level 50-60 characters at that level.
Experience comes into it also, those who have played longer than others will be more experienced.
Then there is the good leader & teamwork vs bad leader & teamwork.
Leave PVP until you are a higher level or find a big team with good teamwork & a good leader.

Yet everyone is complaining about how deserted PVP has become! I don't suppose you have any thoughts on why? Perhaps whenever a person who is not vetted out and vamp steps in, they get destroyed. There is even a built in feature to give you a little bit of an evening field like they want you to, oh I dunno, experience PVP lower on.

By having you and your "I kill a sub 40 in 3 shot" vets out there, you literally are killing the PVP in this game, just look at the pop numbers... People aren't leaving the game itself en mass, they are leaving PVP.

Separate the vets and the non vets, there is literally NO HARM in doing this, you should be able to have a nearly full campaign of vets by now, and then you can delete several of the currently deserted campaigns (about 5 of them are literally empty on 1 or 2 factions) and put the non vets there. You guys get to ego and power stroke due to your exploiting, and normal people get to enjoy the PVP experience in a non min max way.

Yusuf

When you kill the groupchallenge-boss in a publicdungeon, you get a skillpoint as a reward, right? You also get a skillpoint for killing a veteranplayer in pvp. Believe me, when you kill someone this strong it's an achievement and not some casual "oh i killed a player"-moment

lao

skarvika wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

If you're telling him to just leave PvP until he levels up, why would you care if he could go to a sub-VR campaign to PvP instead? Either way he's gone from your campaign; what does it matter to you?

simple, splitting up population into too many sub zones kills pvp alltogether. same thing happened in SWTOR at release when they seperated the 1-49 bracket and l50 bracket. the l50 queue was dead for like a month cos it took the casuals forever to hit 50. it was somewhat reasonable there since warzones are 8v8 but in eso it makes absolutely no sense.
ppl just need to stop crying for once and level up instead or if they cba to do that atleast realize that they gonna be food until they do. in any case stop crying jesus.

Yeah and that's still more or less the case because anyone non-vet is nothing more than cannon fodder. Most of the servers are deserted almost 24/7 now.
So more or less, what you get to do is sit in a corner circlejerking about how 1337 you are while nobody wants to pvp anymore and there aren't enough vets to make things very interesting which makes pvping practically useless for low AND high level players.

thats funny cos i see FAR more low level players than vets in pvp. atleast 20:1 odds if not more. and guess what, its like that cos most will keep coming back even if they die alot. u cant expect to come to pvp at l40 and expect to win vs vr players. mind you its still possible cos alot of the vr players are very bad. i have no trouble taking on most vr10 players at vr2 despite the fact that they have alot better gear and therefor alot better stats (im running around with l18 jewelry still for the set bonus and i dont even have a vr weapon and even still using some l40-45 armor parts and no im not a vamp/werewolf yet either)

and lets not forget that it takes max 2 days /played to hit 50 and thats all u need to be able to compete with 99% of the playerbase if u arent completely awful.

if ppl cant even be bothered to put in that much time to lvl up after almost a month (literally less than 2 hours a day would have gotten u vr1 by now) they deserve to get pooped on in pvp. period.

lao

Valaska wrote: »

Faolanhart wrote: »

Oh noes, those level 60 players are more powerful than level 30 players, nobody saw that one coming.
A bunch of people want to be vampires because they can be pretty OP right now if built the right way.
But just like you shouldn't expect to beat Riften at level 20-30, don't expect to beat level 50-60 characters at that level.
Experience comes into it also, those who have played longer than others will be more experienced.
Then there is the good leader & teamwork vs bad leader & teamwork.
Leave PVP until you are a higher level or find a big team with good teamwork & a good leader.

Yet everyone is complaining about how deserted PVP has become! I don't suppose you have any thoughts on why? Perhaps whenever a person who is not vetted out and vamp steps in, they get destroyed. There is even a built in feature to give you a little bit of an evening field like they want you to, oh I dunno, experience PVP lower on.

By having you and your "I kill a sub 40 in 3 shot" vets out there, you literally are killing the PVP in this game, just look at the pop numbers... People aren't leaving the game itself en mass, they are leaving PVP.

Separate the vets and the non vets, there is literally NO HARM in doing this, you should be able to have a nearly full campaign of vets by now, and then you can delete several of the currently deserted campaigns (about 5 of them are literally empty on 1 or 2 factions) and put the non vets there. You guys get to ego and power stroke due to your exploiting, and normal people get to enjoy the PVP experience in a non min max way.

pvp is not for casuals and never was, either come to terms with the fact that ur most of the time not gonna win vs an even number of vet palyers or get with the curve in the first place or get out. simple as that.

the day when companys listen to casuals giving their opinions/ideas on pvp the pvp goes to ***.

ur last sentence says everything rly. thats the mindset of a rolepalyer not a pvper. thus u shouldnt even be granted an opinion on this specific matter. u dont see pvpers rolling in and comment on pve encounters, why does the pve crowd always insist on giving their clueless opinion that carries zero weight on the pvp aspect of games. if u dont like the way it is then dont go to pvp srsly. atleast u have the choice. i know i would sure as hell avoid all kind of pve if i was given the choice...

yet u dont see me whining at any pve related stuff like bosses/dungeons/whatever. i take it for what it is, suck it up and get it over with cos i have to. no1 forces you to pvp however. let that sink abit.

Redwyrm

This have nothing to do with V10 rank, but rather poor pvp-skills in your group.
Hint: even though vampire can prevent to be knockdowned by Silver Bolts in Mist Form (though he also can't fight in MF), there is always 5% chance for nuke-damage. And even VR10 vamp not gonna outlive that.

joanjett

Well you see there's this thing called fire and silver spikes....works wonders on
vampires.....oh and that little glowing ball to see with.....ah good times!

beravinprb19_ESO

Sorry, but I disagree with this idea. Most campaigns have low population, or serious issues with population balance. This would just divide the PvP community even more...

skarvika

lao wrote: »

lets not forget that it takes max 2 days /played to hit 50 and thats all u need to be able to compete with 99% of the playerbase if u arent completely awful.

if ppl cant even be bothered to put in that much time to lvl up after almost a month (literally less than 2 hours a day would have gotten u vr1 by now) they deserve to get pooped on in pvp. period.

Well, my /played says my playtime is 10 days 8 hours and I've been questing almost nonstop (with the occasional day for pvp) and occasionally grinding bosses. I don't think there's any other way to get to a decent level without mundane aoe grinding...which I don't do much since I want the pve to still be a bit challenging.

tengri wrote: »

Separating the "community" is actually a very good idea.
Let the power-leveler duke it out in their own domain and create PvP zones for the more casual player, too.

Yeah, yeah, we get it.
You all quickly took advantage of every single XP exploit and/or grinded your asses 24/7 all the way to the top to show off your virtual *****. You stop for nothing and certainly not for PvE content or quests which could only slow you down. We are in awe!
And now of course you want to "own" all those low lives slow levelers who are not as tough and dedicated as yourself. Perfectly understandable.

But guess what - those who really want to play with or against you are already by your side. However... most of the "slow" ones dont want to play with you at all.
Non-VR PvP campaigns ftw!

These kinds of players you speak of are the reason people think all mmo players are greasy haired, sweaty palmed, cheeto fingered, pimple faced neckbeards who act all "holier than thou" for taking a video game extremely seriously and thinking it gives them some kind of legitimate credibility to slap everyone with their e-peen.
It's like some people don't think the players on the non-vet server will ever reach that rank, like they'll just stay in some kind of in-game limbo where they never gain xp every again. Absolutely silly.

lao

skarvika wrote: »

lao wrote: »

lets not forget that it takes max 2 days /played to hit 50 and thats all u need to be able to compete with 99% of the playerbase if u arent completely awful.

if ppl cant even be bothered to put in that much time to lvl up after almost a month (literally less than 2 hours a day would have gotten u vr1 by now) they deserve to get pooped on in pvp. period.

Well, my /played says my playtime is 10 days 8 hours and I've been questing almost nonstop (with the occasional day for pvp) and occasionally grinding bosses. I don't think there's any other way to get to a decent level without mundane aoe grinding...which I don't do much since I want the pve to still be a bit challenging.

tengri wrote: »

Separating the "community" is actually a very good idea.
Let the power-leveler duke it out in their own domain and create PvP zones for the more casual player, too.

Yeah, yeah, we get it.
You all quickly took advantage of every single XP exploit and/or grinded your asses 24/7 all the way to the top to show off your virtual *****. You stop for nothing and certainly not for PvE content or quests which could only slow you down. We are in awe!
And now of course you want to "own" all those low lives slow levelers who are not as tough and dedicated as yourself. Perfectly understandable.

But guess what - those who really want to play with or against you are already by your side. However... most of the "slow" ones dont want to play with you at all.
Non-VR PvP campaigns ftw!

These kinds of players you speak of are the reason people think all mmo players are greasy haired, sweaty palmed, cheeto fingered, pimple faced neckbeards who act all "holier than thou" for taking a video game extremely seriously and thinking it gives them some kind of legitimate credibility to slap everyone with their e-peen.
It's like some people don't think the players on the non-vet server will ever reach that rank, like they'll just stay in some kind of in-game limbo where they never gain xp every again. Absolutely silly.

well then ur /played is more than twice of mine. if u rather wanna waste ur time on quests instead of doing what everyone does thats fine i guess. ur free to waste ur freetime however u want afterall but who is the, and i may quote you here, "greasy haired, sweaty palmed, cheeto fingered, pimple faced neckbeard" then?

get a duo partner and grind it up -> 50 in 24h is possible from what ppl tell me. 48 hours if u do it solo (what i did). u cant go and take the slowest possible way to 50 and then go and demand ZOS to make a campaign just for you and ur likes so u can compete. thats just extremely silly.

Azarul

The main problem I see with 2 different campaigns is from a guild point of view. I am part of a large 320+ guild which has regular PvP events with everyone from level 10 - VR10. Are you saying we wont be able to have everyone together anymore? Now thats a PvP killer IMO.

MorHawk

Yeah, as mentioned, campaigns are already dead. Separate pre-VR campaigns = all kinds of bad. Especially in a month or so once everyone's got to 50.

Gwarok

Faolanhart wrote: »

Oh noes, those level 60 players are more powerful than level 30 players, nobody saw that one coming.
A bunch of people want to be vampires because they can be pretty OP right now if built the right way.
But just like you shouldn't expect to beat Riften at level 20-30, don't expect to beat level 50-60 characters at that level.
Experience comes into it also, those who have played longer than others will be more experienced.
Then there is the good leader & teamwork vs bad leader & teamwork.
Leave PVP until you are a higher level or find a big team with good teamwork & a good leader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4FdlNlWBKQ

I WAS BORN FOR DYING!!!!

Kolache

Azarul wrote: »

The main problem I see with 2 different campaigns is from a guild point of view. I am part of a large 320+ guild which has regular PvP events with everyone from level 10 - VR10. Are you saying we wont be able to have everyone together anymore? Now thats a PvP killer IMO.

Would be easy enough to take 1 of the existing campaigns and, on next reset, limit it to 49 as the cap. Then your guildies could continue to join your regular campaign. If there aren't anymore campaigns than there currently already are, I don't see how it could divide the community anymore than it already is.

tengri

If something like this comes one day it should always be possible to "choose up" so to speak - meaning lower level player can opt to join in on VR level campaigns.
But definitely not the other way round...

Kolache

tengri wrote: »

If something like this comes one day it should always be possible to "choose up" so to speak - meaning lower level player can opt to join in on VR level campaigns.
But definitely not the other way round...

I dunno, i think joining down would be fine so long as attributes/math was capped down, (kinda like deleveling). I'll bet you it would even be more popular than a regular campaign for VR players.

lao

for the sake of this games survival i can only hope ZOS ignores all these casual crybabys. seriously whining cos lowbies cant beat veterans in an even number fight. i cant be the only one realizing how utterly *** that is. especially considering how easy it is to get l50. this modern generation of gamers is just utterly braindead srsly. 10 years ago this would have never even been a topic cos ppl had the brains to realize how mmos work.

Samadhi

Killing Veteran players as a pre-50 character has become one of the most satisfying feelings in PvP to me because of the constant stream of complaints that they are unkillable.

It would really suck if that was taken away by a completely unnecessary bracketing system.

Valaska

MorHawk wrote: »

Yeah, as mentioned, campaigns are already dead. Separate pre-VR campaigns = all kinds of bad. Especially in a month or so once everyone's got to 50.

You don't seem to understand people are leaving because vets can just roll over the majority of normal players. They are virtually unkillable.

LadyChaos

Valaska wrote: »

Title says it all, I saw a rank 10 veteran vampire wipe out my entire raiding party of 20-30's. I was constantly critical charging him, but he was able to do bats and invisible so rapidly we couldn't stun him, couldn't hit him, even when we were hitting him it did nothing. We literally brought him to half health when he outright killed us.

This is crappy, very crappy, new players won't be able to do a thing in PVP, I've tried going 1v1 against legendary 1's even, I can be solidly hitting them and all they do is shield... Then bash me to death because I simply CAN NOT do enough damage to them even when they don't have their shields up.

While I DO NOT agree with separating vets from levels in Cyrodiil there was a thread that asked for input on what rules we would like to see with the upcoming potential changes to campaigns... maybe someone has it off hand I have to search for it...

But there was discussion about campaigns that favor lower level play and veteran play etc.

IMO I'd rather see campaigns aimed towards you PvP rank as a lvl 40 sergeant might have surpassed the CYrodiil learning curve completely while a VR1 volunteer is still trying to 1v1 everything, need to be told how to travel from wayshrine to wayshrine, get ganked at every turn for running solo etc, and could be more use or gain more enjoyment, to the volunteer or even more casual campaigns rather than the more dedicated PvPers... this was just my input.