Game DESPERATELY needs a common crafting materials storage bank, GW2 style.

derpmonster

knightblaster wrote: »

derpmonster wrote: »

I'm fairly certain that Zenimax did not intend for people to have to 'make a choice' and that things are the way they are in this game because they are simply an immature mmo developer. There is more evidence for this theory than there is against it.

No, it's quite intentional for you to make a choice.

http://tamrieljournal.com/tesoelite-crafting-qa-summary-paul-sage/

Paul Sage, about a month ago:

Inventory / Bank Space

Q: Since crafting materials take up space in our inventory…Would it be possible to implement crafting bags for strictly crafting materials?

A: Our inventory space and bank space provides a much needed gold sink. Something useful to spend your money on. Currently, that friction is useful to the game, and removing that isn’t something I think we want to pursue at this time.



Q: Items for crafting take a lot of place. Will you implement an interface dedicated to crafting items like GW2 or Neverwinter ?

A: Bank space and inventory space are friction elements for the economy. It is unlikely we will have a dedicate crafting inventory in the near future. Choice is important.



Q: I love the fact that you can leave items in your bank and still use them for crafting. My concern is, I guess I horde to much of everything since I’m crafting everything, and run out of space really really quick. Is there away to fix this, or should i simple just keep selling my mats and make low level items to makes space?

A: I would say you are going to have to make some choices about what you keep and what you don’t. Bank space / inventory space is another limiter to being able to work on all crafting skills at once. It isn’t impossible, it is just harder if that is what you choose to do. There’s also a TV show about your “problem.”

So? Doesn't mean it's not a terrible design decision and that we can't talk about a better solution.

P.S.

I'm sorry I haven't kept track of every single thing the devs have ever said.

knightblaster

I also don't like the design, by the way, but thought it important to correct you when you said that they didn't intend you to have to make these kinds of choices. They do. It sucks as a design, but it's very intended.

Dyvim

knightblaster wrote: »

I also don't like the design, by the way, but thought it important to correct you when you said that they didn't intend you to have to make these kinds of choices. They do. It sucks as a design, but it's very intended.

Right, hence the evolving nature of MMOs and the pattern of developers paying more attention to QoL issues as the game matures. What they have now does sux as a design. They admit to limiting our inventory in order to limit our activity in the game. That is a terrible, terrible approach to design. Kind of like leveling crafting by breaking down items instead of making them is just as backwards. I did see that last quote a few days ago, and remember thinking, wow how stupid.

Silly me, I expect, as a crafter, to actually be able to produce desirable goods and make a modest profit while doing it...I would also like to point out that this kills the earlier concept mentioned in the thread of leaving lower end business to leveling crafters. If everyone is crafting small amounts outside of deconstructing in order to level, again we have a system that seems...backwards.

But back on topic...as with any MMO, we will see a great many changes, and that is what forums should be for...players suggesting changes with rationales behind them.

Dyvim

Brennan wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

I personally believe there is a certain weakness in character and lack of intelligence when you are a paying customer and are willing to line up like a lemming and except a substandard product, particularly when better products are out there for all to see. I snicker at the "Thank you sir, may I have another?" mentality. There is nothing mature about getting short changed and rationalizing being hosed.

If this is a substandard product stop paying for it and lining up like the rest of us lemmings and go play GW2. In the meantime, let those of us who have learned to adapt and still enjoy the game without ranting on the forums continue to do so.

I in no way feel disadvantaged or taken advantage of by an inventory system of all things, ESO, or ZOS. If you do, it's subscription based so instead of making another poll or even another thread - vote with your wallet and GTFO.

I am trying to get a positive change to the game. This is my first thread on these forums, and I started it with my first ever post. Mainly I just play the game. If customers care enough about your product to take their time to suggest improvements to it that are meaningful to them and other customers, that business is lucky. As far as this being a substandard product, did you bother to read? I did not issue some indictment of the entire game, just this ONE component of it, and if you read other replies in this thread, you can clearly see I am not alone in my feelings about its poor nature. So, now, who is the twit? What positive suggestion for improvement did you make?

If I felt this way about the whole game, I wouldn't be taking the time to do this and I wouldn't be giving zenimax my money. Period. I have hope for this game and hope it will continue to improve. Player feedback is a big portion of that...or maybe you are new to MMOs?

jircris11

i PERSONALLY would like a separate section to store craftign mats like GW2 has. But i also have learned that this is not GW2 and thus have to deal with it. perhaps if they increased bank slots or reduced pricing on it?

Sharee

Dyvim wrote: »

What they have now does sux as a design. They admit to limiting our inventory in order to limit our activity in the game. That is a terrible, terrible approach to design.

Would you rather they limit your activity in the game by telling you "You can only learn two crafting sills out of the six available" like so many other games do?

I would not. I very much like that i can master every single craft on my main character eventually, even if not all of them at once, and am more than willing to accept that i cannot pick up everything that isn't nailed down during leveling, and have to make a choice what to keep and what to drop.

Dyvim

Sharee wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

What they have now does sux as a design. They admit to limiting our inventory in order to limit our activity in the game. That is a terrible, terrible approach to design.

Would you rather they limit your activity in the game by telling you "You can only learn two crafting sills out of the six available" like so many other games do?

I would not. I very much like that i can master every single craft on my main character eventually, even if not all of them at once, and am more than willing to accept that i cannot pick up everything that isn't nailed down during leveling, and have to make a choice what to keep and what to drop.

You have posited a fake straw man argument. That is what the skill point requirements are for...it costs to level crafting skills at the expense of other skills. So that is already cooked into the system. No other restrictions on crafting, like only two craft skills at a time, ala GW2, are necessary.

So what I said stands, it is sux design to try to limit our activity in a game that is at the high end of the price model for the industry, by having arbitrary, ridiculously low inventory space, which is EXACERBATED by the nature of the vast number of materials involved in crafting AND loot AND the fact that all your alts have to share the same, limited, bank space. Shared space is good, but each alt should have their own tab...and you should have an account wide shared crafting materials bank, just like GW2. All the current system does is cost players time...tedious, annoying time spent inventory managing, and *** people off at the inelegant design when clearly better options are out there...

Hell, I had to create a mule alt just to hold the frakin CE treasure maps. The inventory system in this game is complete BS given the nature of the loot and crafting materials in the game.

Sharee

Dyvim wrote: »

That is what the skill point requirements are for...it costs to level crafting skills at the expense of other skills. So that is already cooked into the system. No other restrictions on crafting, like only two craft skills at a time, ala GW2, are necessary.

Skillpoints are a dime dozen. I could stick with five active skills, couple of passives, then spend the rest of skillpoints on crafting, and have no problem whatsoever leveling to 50 while also raising all my crafting skills simultaneously.

So yes, other restrictions on crafting are necessary. And the devs agree, obviously.

DrJawaPhD

I played Guild Wars 2 for a while - it sucks.

That doesn't change the fact though this game though has REALLY terrible inventory management and really ought to take a lesson from GW2 in that regard. It's very frustrating for no reason, just for the sake of being a pain in the ass

AreoHotah

The material tab is a complete mess atm. crafting mats, weapon and armor traits, runes, fod ingredients all togheter... bah

derpmonster

Sharee wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

That is what the skill point requirements are for...it costs to level crafting skills at the expense of other skills. So that is already cooked into the system. No other restrictions on crafting, like only two craft skills at a time, ala GW2, are necessary.

Skillpoints are a dime dozen. I could stick with five active skills, couple of passives, then spend the rest of skillpoints on crafting, and have no problem whatsoever leveling to 50 while also raising all my crafting skills simultaneously.

So yes, other restrictions on crafting are necessary. And the devs agree, obviously.

They aren't necessary. I'll just say it once again but GW2 proved arbitrary restrictions on these sort of things (and many more) aren't needed in mmos.

Let me ask you this. If we took GW2s inventory storage system complete with all the features it has (deposit, collections for each profession type, etc) and put it in ESO and it was there from the start, from the very first beta, would you be here complaining that the inventory system is too easy?

Would you be here posting on the forum asking for more restrictions? Would you be asking the devs to make the game more tedious because IT NEEDS TO BE THAT WAY (but no one can give a real reason why it needs to be that way).

No, you might not like it but you wouldn't be here asking for it to be made worse. It just doesn't make any sense why it needs to be the way.

Malkavianqueen

I fully agree! I was just talking with my boyfriend about this earlier. Life would be so much better with a crafting/collections bank.

I'm a college student with a limited time to play each day. My main character does provisioning. Therefore, my one hour of playtime a day is cut down to 30 minutes each day playing the inventory management game.

It's not fun running to the bank, running to go sell things and deconstruct things, running BACK to the bank, questing for 10 minutes then running back to town to sell things again. I really love this game, but the lack of quality of life improvements is driving me insane!

soalrism

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder how it is that I can be working on every crafting profession at the same time, with no "mule" alts holding anything, and I'm having no issues with my inventory space at all.

Either I'm doing something wrong, or everyone who's complaining about inventory space is doing something wrong.

I'd really love some enlightenment on this.

runemaking has 50 different runes.
alchemy has 25 different ingredients
provisioning has over 50 different ingredients
and so on...

you are a) a damn liar or b) a crafting starter still collecting only tier1 ingredients...

@ topic: i dont want the gw2 system. eso is about making decisions. if you can storage eveything there is no decision. but i see that some crafting skills need a lot more space then others so i would like to see the possibility to get more space specialy for that materials for skillpoints (not gold)

Cascade_V

Get a life.

I also don't like the inventory system, I'll complain about it even more...

Brennan

Cascade_V wrote: »

Get a life.

I also don't like the inventory system, I'll complain about it even more...

Never stop posting man. Maybe if you keep it up we can all play GW2 with an ESO storyline! Because that is what we all signed on for but didn't.

Cascade_V

Brennan wrote: »

Never stop posting man.

Drachenfier

I find it interesting that some of the loudest anti-auction house proponents are also in here calling people twits for wanting increased inventory space/options.

Just to add my two cents: I would very much like to see a crafting mats inventory/bank section added.

Brennan

Drachenfier wrote: »

I find it interesting that some of the loudest anti-auction house proponents are also in here calling people twits for wanting increased inventory space/options.

I find it interesting that those who disagree with the OP are having their intelligence and character brought into question.

Dyvim wrote: »

I personally believe there is a certain weakness in character and lack of intelligence when you are a paying customer and are willing to line up like a lemming and except a substandard product, particularly when better products are out there for all to see. I snicker at the "Thank you sir, may I have another?" mentality. There is nothing mature about getting short changed and rationalizing being hosed.

Uviryth

Ah, a thread about The Diablo 3 Scrolls Online. You go out, kill monsters for 10 minutes. Then you yell "Full! TP Town" and go sell. Veeeery much fun that is.

I am pretty shocked that there are people in this thread actually supporting that crap of an inventory-system.
Well, mmo-crowds never cease to amaze me

Cascade_V

Brennan wrote: »

I find it interesting that those who disagree with the OP are having their intelligence and character brought into question.

aha...and "you're a twit..." repeated over and over is sooo deeply and thoughtfully intelligent, as well as respectful...??

really??

you should have your character questioned.

Brennan

My character is able to manage the inventory system without complaining about how it isn't like it is in GW2.

Cascade_V

Brennan wrote: »

My character is able to manage the inventory system without complaining about how it isn't like it is in GW2.

Brennan

Cascade_V wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

My character is able to manage the inventory system without complaining about how it isn't like it is in GW2.

I understand...

Catches_the_Sun

derpmonster wrote: »

They aren't necessary. I'll just say it once again but GW2 proved arbitrary restrictions on these sort of things (and many more) aren't needed in mmos.

The fact that GW2 has such a system doesn't prove that it works, or is a good system, nor does it prove that it would translate well to ESO. I could easily argue that copying anything that relates to GW2's economy or crafting system would be detrimental to ESO. Just look at their cooking ingredients for example. In many cases, you'll spend 15-20 times as much money for 1 ingredient than you will the final product. Why would we want to copy any of their systems over?

Drachenfier

Brennan wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I find it interesting that some of the loudest anti-auction house proponents are also in here calling people twits for wanting increased inventory space/options.

I find it interesting that those who disagree with the OP are having their intelligence and character brought into question.

Drachenfier wrote: »

I personally believe there is a certain weakness in character and lack of intelligence when you are a paying customer and are willing to line up like a lemming and except a substandard product, particularly when better products are out there for all to see.*snip*

Not sure where you got that quote, but i didn't write that.

Brennan

Drachenfier wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I find it interesting that some of the loudest anti-auction house proponents are also in here calling people twits for wanting increased inventory space/options.

I find it interesting that those who disagree with the OP are having their intelligence and character brought into question.

Drachenfier wrote: »

I personally believe there is a certain weakness in character and lack of intelligence when you are a paying customer and are willing to line up like a lemming and except a substandard product, particularly when better products are out there for all to see.*snip*

Not sure where you got that quote, but i didn't write that.

You're right. You didn't. My apologies for the misquote. The quote came from the OP. I will edit my post accordingly.

KiroElmarok

GW2 crafter here. Sadly I disagree. The GW2 resource tab bank was too little imo.

Before attempting to craft my legendary (dreamer) I ended up with 5 tabs of normal bank space filled with normal crafting mats... I have a hoarding problem... still do. But since I trust the players in my guild, I utilize the alt crafters guild bank to dump thousands of mats into the gb.
(400-1000 racial style mats/800 vr1 ingots/vr1 wood/vr1 nonheavy gear/runes for enchanting)

Appren

It's a shame really, this game is pretty damn good, except for one part: The UI. It is just horrible in general. Some of the flaws can be fixed with addons, others cannot:
- Bank space is seriously low, sure I dont mind gold sinks, they are needed, but put the base bank size up a fair amount, like starting at 120 or something.
- Hard to find the right items in bank or inventory. Love scrolling? This is your game! (can be improved with addon, still not good)
- The guild store system - how on EARTH could someone create such a crappy interface for a released game? No option to search for name of item, can't search for the specific kind of item you want, like receipe, crafting ingredient (every bloody item seems to count as a "material" if it can be deconstructed, wtf?) I'm not even going into the discussion of AH vs tiny crappy guild stores, as that is a different thing.
-

Brennan

Appren wrote: »

It's a shame really, this game is pretty damn good, except for one part: The UI. It is just horrible in general. Some of the flaws can be fixed with addons, others cannot:
- Bank space is seriously low, sure I dont mind gold sinks, they are needed, but put the base bank size up a fair amount, like starting at 120 or something.

The reason people want more inventory and bank space is so they have more room to hoard crap they don't need. Increase to 120 and people will want 150. It comes down to whether you're asking, "Why should I get rid of this?" instead of asking, "Why should I keep this?"

Appren wrote: »

- Hard to find the right items in bank or inventory. Love scrolling? This is your game! (can be improved with addon, still not good)
- The guild store system - how on EARTH could someone create such a crappy interface for a released game? No option to search for name of item, can't search for the specific kind of item you want, like receipe, crafting ingredient (every bloody item seems to count as a "material" if it can be deconstructed, wtf?) I'm not even going into the discussion of AH vs tiny crappy guild stores, as that is a different thing.
-

The lack of a search feature both in the inventory and bank and most notably in the guild store UI is something that I can wholeheartedly agree with you on. I love that they did not adopt an Auction House system like every other MMO, but if the alternative is such a bear to use effectively, it makes it very difficult to sell that concept. I think that a Search feature is a very big step forward in making the economy a much more livable system than it is in it's current iteration.

Evelyn_Nightingale

Dyvim wrote: »

Hell, I had to create a mule alt just to hold the frakin CE treasure maps. The inventory system in this game is complete BS given the nature of the loot and crafting materials in the game.

Opening all the treasure map bundles was your decision. I made the mistake of opening all my map bundles at once. Though I regret doing that, I still love the inventory system.

One reason why the inventory system was made to limit players is to increase the value of crafting. Make a choice and specialize, otherwise you're going to be stuck with the hoarding problem. I'm currently specializing in heavy armor because I realized I couldn't hoard all the weapons I had for traits. I also decide not to loot junk that will not sell for much and isn't relevant to which part of crafting I'm focusing on.