"Elite PvP Guilds" /doom ESO

Gaudrath

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

lao wrote: »

wrong this is pvp and pvp is competitive.

it was never made for casuals to enjoy it.

Actually, it's a computer game. Games in general are rarely useful for anything but casual entertainment, computer games more so than others.

If you want to be competitive or even at all useful, I suggest real life. And quit pretending your "skill" at pressing a dozen buttons on a keyboard is in any way relevant or meaningful.

Competitive does not equal relevant or meaningful. Relevant to what exactly?

Relevant to anything at all. Some people seem to need a reminder that they're playing a computer game, a game that is completely useless for anything else than entertainment. Implying any portion of such a game was not meant for "casuals" imparts false importance to said activities.

prana33b14_ESO

coolstorybro

prana33b14_ESO

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

If you think typing in /group is as effective as calling targets to be attacked, healed, etc. or calling out different incoming groups well then I will just ignore everything else you say besides that because it's not even a question.

...then my grivience vs Elite Guilds is proven. IF you think this then you are destroying the game.

Oh Bulls*&*#. Referring to your past comment about driving without hearing an engine or some *** ***, does the military text each other or do they use voice coms? I can think of several games with IN GAME voice chat. Did they ruin their own game?

You are just mad people want you in team speak and are being a huge baby. If you don't want to join teamspeak don't join the guild that requires it. Join a "casual" guild and get owned. Every guild I've been in since starting mmos has utilized team speak. It didn't cause any one game's downfall.


BTW. My claim that teamspeak is better doesn't PROVE anything about whether or not it is hurting TESO. Learn some logic.

RaZaddha

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

If you think typing in /group is as effective as calling targets to be attacked, healed, etc. or calling out different incoming groups well then I will just ignore everything else you say besides that because it's not even a question.

...then my grivience vs Elite Guilds is proven. IF you think this then you are destroying the game.

Oh Bulls*&*#. Referring to your past comment about driving without hearing an engine or some *** ***, does the military text each other or do they use voice coms? I can think of several games with IN GAME voice chat. Did they ruin their own game?

You are just mad people want you in team speak and are being a huge baby. If you don't want to join teamspeak don't join the guild that requires it. Join a "casual" guild and get owned. Every guild I've been in since starting mmos has utilized team speak. It didn't cause any one game's downfall.


BTW. My claim that teamspeak is better doesn't PROVE anything about whether or not it is hurting TESO. Learn some logic.

Dude, get a grip on reality, everybody knows the US army uses facebook messenger on their iphones for communication, the russians use twitter on their androids because they wanna be cooler than the US.

TheGrandAlliance

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

"...well then I will just ignore everything else you say besides that because it's not even a question."


BTW. My claim that teamspeak is better doesn't PROVE anything about whether or not it is hurting TESO. Learn some logic.

Your claim is that it "isn't a question". I contest such an argument. A good group doesn't need VC... it should be able to move as one. Be aware of it's surroundings. Not talking all the time.

Dudis

What's elitist about wanting to play my playstyle with my friends? I'm on Mumble every night i'm playing with people i've been gaming with for nearly 10 years at this point. We're sort of open to picking up new people but not if it's going to hinder our fun in any way.

We usually just stick to ourselves and pick people off between keeps but honestly, in almost 4 weeks of pvp I have yet to see ANYONE ask for an invite. Ever.

Ser Lobo

Gaudrath wrote: »

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

lao wrote: »

wrong this is pvp and pvp is competitive.

it was never made for casuals to enjoy it.

Actually, it's a computer game. Games in general are rarely useful for anything but casual entertainment, computer games more so than others.

If you want to be competitive or even at all useful, I suggest real life. And quit pretending your "skill" at pressing a dozen buttons on a keyboard is in any way relevant or meaningful.

Competitive does not equal relevant or meaningful. Relevant to what exactly?

Relevant to anything at all. Some people seem to need a reminder that they're playing a computer game, a game that is completely useless for anything else than entertainment. Implying any portion of such a game was not meant for "casuals" imparts false importance to said activities.

You are right, and then you are right. 'Imparts false importance' is the phrase that struck me. The simple act of picking up the game itself and trying to gain enjoyment out of it is, very simply, giving it false importance.

Sure, the game is designed to be enjoyable to some. And just as surely, the game is designed to be competitive to some. Enjoyment (much like any other 'sensation' that is not directly tied to our senses) is a false mechanism built by the individual.

Even the phrase 'useful' cannot be tasked to many things in real life without first defining 'to whom'. I am a butcher. The vast majority of the people on this earth and the things they do (in real life) are not useful to me. Just like I am assuredly not useful to, say, a vegetarian.



So that's all the psychological mumbo jumbo that I want to throw out there. I play many games (board games, video games, card games, etc) to compete. I compete in a virtual world, just like I compete in real life (also a nationally ranked powerlifter). I am, by nature, a competitive person, and if we were standing side by side at a urinal I could find a way to compete there.

And ESO is built to be a competitive game. Trials are a primary example. Competition doesn't have to be dictated by player-killing-player. It can be between teams over arbitrary objectives or times.

So while you see very dismissive over the concept of others wanting to enjoy this game by taking it to a more focused level under more controlled circumstances, it doesn't mean your point has any more validity than someone saying casuals don't belong. Both are right (from their perspective and opinion), and both are right (from the neutral assessment of psychological behavior).

Gaudrath

@ruze84b14_ESO - you missed my point. If you want to compete in something, go ahead. But the moment you think that any portion of the game was designed exclusively for the enjoyment of a small, select group of people you show not only the basic lack of understanding of game design but also display a kind of exclusivity and even arrogance that is entirely unwarranted.

Why? Because it is a game. It is indeed useless. There is nothing to boast about at the end of the day. You accomplished nothing, and that nothing shall literally be overwritten the next day by someone else's virtual accomplishments.

The only thing we can draw from a game is entertainment. Fun. Nothing else.

Especially computer games and *especially* MMOs. MMOs by their nature and design will never be competitive. If you even want to approach a competitive setting in the context of a computer game, you need a LAN setup, and a professional one at that, not the bring-your-own-rig kind.

Or do you think powerlifting would be a competitive sport if people were allowed to use hydraulic jacks, doping, sponge weights that look really really big and a couple of glitches in the reality matrix so they can lift a truck and swing it around like a baseball bat?

Because that's what MMOs will always be, especially mass scale PvP. Whether from bugs in the game, inherent imbalances in the game design or just plain old disparity between people's rigs and network connections, there is no way to judge an individual's skill in an MMO. You could be facing the greatest player in the world on a crappy rig connecting from Klerplakistan and beat him by spamming one button. Much skill.

And at the end of the day, even if you are #1, all you accomplished is being good at pressing a very small set of buttons, something NASA trained chimps to do in the 60s. Nothing to be overly proud of. Certainly nothing to justify looking down or deriding other players, something I see plenty of in these kind of discussions.

We're all supposed to have fun and that's it. It would be a much more enjoyable game if everyone realized this very simple truth.

Dudis

I still fail to se your point. I get that these guys are ruining your fun but some people will allways enjoy being "competative" and have fun by trying to improve themselves and win in "useless" stuff, be it basketball, chess or ESO...

Gaudrath

Dudis wrote: »

I still fail to se your point. I get that these guys are ruining your fun but some people will allways enjoy being "competative" and have fun by trying to improve themselves and win in "useless" stuff, be it basketball, chess or ESO...

Well, they can't ruin my fun in a game - if I don't have fun, I stop playing, do something else and keep having fun!

Look, I don't mind people trying to be good at anything - one of the reasons I play the game is to try and make a really, really good character and stomp people in PvP. But I know that at the end of the day it means absolutely nothing.

But regardless of how good anyone thinks they are at playing the game, they have no reason to view other players as "dead weight" or second-class citizens. Especially not in a mass PvP game like ESO, that's just foolish. Were it not for certain exploits and broken mechanics allowing players to solo zergs, which will get fixed eventually, no one would be claiming that 30 lowbies are a dead weight.

Btw. when it comes to gameplay - I was in a "pro" guild in GW2. Over time it all degenerated into a stale "synchronized swimming" form of PvP where the "best" guilds boiled down their gameplay to listening to your raid leader shouting step-by-step commands over TS and everyone just doing it. No freedom, no style. Just 100% efficiency. Boring as hell.

I was in a "leet" alliance in Eve Online too, same thing. Well, we did have small raids, that was fun. But the big stuff. "Here's a precise list of targets by priority, DO NOT DEVIATE FROM THE PROGRAM." Boring. And you have to do it, because the other guys are doing it and will crush you if you don't follow suit.

So yeah, "pro" guys... you may roflstomp everyone in your path, but know this: your gameplay is frikkin' boring. Watching you fight is boring, fighting you is boring, even losing to you is boring. It's like fighting really nasty PvE scripted mobs.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

I thought that the top guild are avoiding each other

Dudis

Personally i don't find sieges very fun, instead me and my friends try to find action and challenge ourselves by fighting larger numbers in open field combat.

Look up from the macro war and try focusing on the micro combat, where your own playing actually makes a difference.
If you still have a couple of friends playing, grab them and form a ganksquad.
Lets say you kill 50 guys running between keeps during a siege... Those are 50 less defenders at the keep, meaning you still made overall a bigger difference than most people at the keep itself.

It's been years since I was in a large alliance in any game (back in DAoC, 2006-ish?). Since then i just still with my small groups of friends that i've been playing with basically forever.

Alestair

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

ESO is not an E-Sport: The concept of an "E-sport" is a mythical fantasy. What happens however, is that instead of "winning" the map and taking/holding Emperor, an "elite" guild would much rather farm AP in order to boost their ranks.

As a result... servers including ones with high populations of these "Elite" guilds never go anywhere because they upset the balance of player population. They don't never hold what they take, they don't even care about Emperor most of the time, and the "randoms" that log in are thus clueless to everything. Nobody wins because "Elite" guilds only want to fight other "Elite" guilds and could care less about the End Game to which is the purpose of PvP.""


^ This is the only reason I LoL'ed.. As for me I am not in an Elite pvp guild.. I wish i were, but to mesh End game and PVP together..... Well.. What about RPG? Does everyone forget about the RPG in the MMO Titles? If anything, they should just start calling MMORPGS MMOG "Massive multiplayer Online Game" But Nooooooo... I like to kill as many players as I can because I feed off of it.. I could care less if I reached end game content or if there were no end game content at all... I mean afterall, what does End Game Really mean? It should be changed to "More" or "Unlimited Game Content" because maybe im silly and all of these years i just never understood other perspective of End Game Content....To me, its End of the Game kinda thing.. What happens in the End of something? It's over. GAME over man Game over.. I'll just start calling endgame content "Possibly unlimited game content" Now, Everyone give me a LOL to this!

lao

Gaudrath wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

I still fail to se your point. I get that these guys are ruining your fun but some people will allways enjoy being "competative" and have fun by trying to improve themselves and win in "useless" stuff, be it basketball, chess or ESO...

Well, they can't ruin my fun in a game - if I don't have fun, I stop playing, do something else and keep having fun!

Look, I don't mind people trying to be good at anything - one of the reasons I play the game is to try and make a really, really good character and stomp people in PvP. But I know that at the end of the day it means absolutely nothing.

But regardless of how good anyone thinks they are at playing the game, they have no reason to view other players as "dead weight" or second-class citizens. Especially not in a mass PvP game like ESO, that's just foolish. Were it not for certain exploits and broken mechanics allowing players to solo zergs, which will get fixed eventually, no one would be claiming that 30 lowbies are a dead weight.

Btw. when it comes to gameplay - I was in a "pro" guild in GW2. Over time it all degenerated into a stale "synchronized swimming" form of PvP where the "best" guilds boiled down their gameplay to listening to your raid leader shouting step-by-step commands over TS and everyone just doing it. No freedom, no style. Just 100% efficiency. Boring as hell.

I was in a "leet" alliance in Eve Online too, same thing. Well, we did have small raids, that was fun. But the big stuff. "Here's a precise list of targets by priority, DO NOT DEVIATE FROM THE PROGRAM." Boring. And you have to do it, because the other guys are doing it and will crush you if you don't follow suit.

So yeah, "pro" guys... you may roflstomp everyone in your path, but know this: your gameplay is frikkin' boring. Watching you fight is boring, fighting you is boring, even losing to you is boring. It's like fighting really nasty PvE scripted mobs.

ahahahah

you have a messed up view what a pro guild is. what u describe is a ZERG guild. the exact opposite of a pro guild. you wanna make a "really really strong character to stomp ppl in pvp?"

yeah... i can safely assume uve never ever been part of anything remotely good in any game just by that comment of yours.

Dudis wrote: »

Personally i don't find sieges very fun, instead me and my friends try to find action and challenge ourselves by fighting larger numbers in open field combat.

Look up from the macro war and try focusing on the micro combat, where your own playing actually makes a difference.
If you still have a couple of friends playing, grab them and form a ganksquad.
Lets say you kill 50 guys running between keeps during a siege... Those are 50 less defenders at the keep, meaning you still made overall a bigger difference than most people at the keep itself.

It's been years since I was in a large alliance in any game (back in DAoC, 2006-ish?). Since then i just still with my small groups of friends that i've been playing with basically forever.

that is what good groups do.

Gaudrath

lao wrote: »

ahahahah

you have a messed up view what a pro guild is. what u describe is a ZERG guild.

Kinda hard to zerg with 10-15 people. Did you even play GW2? That's how things go over there... stack or die. Mostly because of bad game design and "pro" guilds which enforced this tactic on everyone by exploiting the hell out of it, turning the game unplayable for those who didn't do the same... sounds familiar?

yeah... i can safely assume uve never ever been part of anything remotely good in any game just by that comment of yours.

/shrug. Assume away. You do know what they say about assumptions?

Dudis

Gaudrath wrote: »

Kinda hard to zerg with 10-15 people.

I guess it depends on what game you come from. I'd call that a small zerg.

Just sayin' :P

lao

Gaudrath wrote: »

lao wrote: »

ahahahah

you have a messed up view what a pro guild is. what u describe is a ZERG guild.

Kinda hard to zerg with 10-15 people. Did you even play GW2? That's how things go over there... stack or die. Mostly because of bad game design and "pro" guilds which enforced this tactic on everyone by exploiting the hell out of it, turning the game unplayable for those who didn't do the same... sounds familiar?

yeah... i can safely assume uve never ever been part of anything remotely good in any game just by that comment of yours.

/shrug. Assume away. You do know what they say about assumptions?

1) believe it or not 15 ppl is a zerg. no good group of players would lower themself to run that many. yes i played GW2 during the first 2 months. we ran 5 man against the war legends zerg with quite some success but GW2 suffered from the same problems ESO has. literally no skill elements therefor we got bored and quit.

2) its more like a reasonable opinion based upon solid facts u provided urself

RaZaddha

Gaudrath wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

I still fail to se your point. I get that these guys are ruining your fun but some people will allways enjoy being "competative" and have fun by trying to improve themselves and win in "useless" stuff, be it basketball, chess or ESO...

Well, they can't ruin my fun in a game - if I don't have fun, I stop playing, do something else and keep having fun!

Look, I don't mind people trying to be good at anything - one of the reasons I play the game is to try and make a really, really good character and stomp people in PvP. But I know that at the end of the day it means absolutely nothing.

But regardless of how good anyone thinks they are at playing the game, they have no reason to view other players as "dead weight" or second-class citizens. Especially not in a mass PvP game like ESO, that's just foolish. Were it not for certain exploits and broken mechanics allowing players to solo zergs, which will get fixed eventually, no one would be claiming that 30 lowbies are a dead weight.

Btw. when it comes to gameplay - I was in a "pro" guild in GW2. Over time it all degenerated into a stale "synchronized swimming" form of PvP where the "best" guilds boiled down their gameplay to listening to your raid leader shouting step-by-step commands over TS and everyone just doing it. No freedom, no style. Just 100% efficiency. Boring as hell.

I was in a "leet" alliance in Eve Online too, same thing. Well, we did have small raids, that was fun. But the big stuff. "Here's a precise list of targets by priority, DO NOT DEVIATE FROM THE PROGRAM." Boring. And you have to do it, because the other guys are doing it and will crush you if you don't follow suit.

So yeah, "pro" guys... you may roflstomp everyone in your path, but know this: your gameplay is frikkin' boring. Watching you fight is boring, fighting you is boring, even losing to you is boring. It's like fighting really nasty PvE scripted mobs.

GW2 is a terrible example of competitive pvp, on a group bigger than 5 the skill ceiling decreases exponentianlly the more players you have, theres very very little support for competitive pvp in WvW unless all you do is GvG, if you want anything remotely competitive you need to go to SPvP.

Gaudrath

lao wrote: »

1) believe it or not 15 ppl is a zerg. no good group of players would lower themself to run that many. yes i played GW2 during the first 2 months. we ran 5 man against the war legends zerg with quite some success but GW2 suffered from the same problems ESO has. literally no skill elements therefor we got bored and quit.

2) its more like a reasonable opinion based upon solid facts u provided urself

1) While zerg size does depend on the game, in GW2 15 people is not a zerg. 50+ people is a zerg. Another thing is - you can't get a zerg on TS and perfectly coordinated. We shall all rue the day someone manages to do that.
So, given the small map size in GW2 and general gameplay issues, if you actually wanted to not be continuously farmed, you had no choice but to run a minimum of 10-15 people on TS. 5-man groups would be reduced to PvE resource taking, and that's it. Until you got too annoying, then you'd get wiped out, skill or no skill.

2) Since we know nothing of each other, I think your "solid facts" are not worth much.

Thing is, I never liked the attitude that since we run on TS and are so perfectly optimized, we are somehow more deserving than other players. That's pure bull. Mass PvP will never be an e-sport, numbers - not skill - will always win, and e-peen contests are for little boys and girls who have nothing better to brag about.

Ser Lobo

Internet definition of skill: the ability to do something well, expertise; a particular ability.

While some players may not respect the ability of others to do a thing well, very few can argue that there are those that are good at a thing, and those that aren't, with PvP or raids or solo-bossing being no exception.

Detractors often write this up as some negative talent. He can do that cause he's twelve, or a no-lifer, or he cheats.

Those who have skill (often through patience, dedication, and focus, if you ask anybody with a particular skill how they see their own progress to that point) don't always look down on those who do, but do feel accomplishment, achievement. To have their ability not recognized is often to target their hard work and disregard it completely.

While I won't argue that many particular sets of skills in-game don't relate at all to real life, I do argue that they are still skills, and in the context of the game, do still mean something. A solid four man or 12 man or hundred man organization that knows what it's doing (either in PvP, Trials, etc) carries with it a set of skills and abilities that others are obviously jealous of, and as such, is more successful at what it does.



Don't hate a player who has skill. If you are like me, with only a limited playtime and no want to dedicate that much time to this game, this doesn't mean you need to despise or deride players who do. Recognize them for what they have accomplished, and move on with your own gaming.

Much like a skilled player taking someone who is either ignorant or simply a casual (like myself in ESO) and trying to dismiss us for what we do? The end result is the same sort of idiotic nonsense.

Neither group, the 'pro' or the 'casual' is better than the other. They play at their own line. But just because there are exceptions on the other side that insult you (and there always will be those morons), doesn't mean you should become just like them and insult back.

Intelligent gamers see through the ploy behind posts like this.

Ser Lobo

As an aside: in over twelve years of MMO gaming, I've come to the conclusion that despite it's aspect of 'Massively Multiplayer', on a whole MMO players are some of the most socially inept and dynamically challenged social groups in the world.

They so easily take on mindsets of hate, for no real reason other than they are anonymous. It's almost like there are players out there who's only goal is to great divisions in a playerbase. PvPers vs PvErs. Elite vs Casual. Raiders vs Solo. Digital Barbie vs Horde.

Too few realize that without those other playstyles, we don't have an MMO.

Gaudrath

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

As an aside: in over twelve years of MMO gaming, I've come to the conclusion that despite it's aspect of 'Massively Multiplayer', on a whole MMO players are some of the most socially inept and dynamically challenged social groups in the world.

They so easily take on mindsets of hate, for no real reason other than they are anonymous. It's almost like there are players out there who's only goal is to great divisions in a playerbase. PvPers vs PvErs. Elite vs Casual. Raiders vs Solo. Digital Barbie vs Horde.

Too few realize that without those other playstyles, we don't have an MMO.

MMOs are like most internet forums, only you get to run around while typing.

Personally, I chalk it down to immaturity. Kids like to segregate themselves into specific groups that give them an identity they hadn't had the time/opportunity to form themselves.

PF1901

lao wrote: »

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Amazing how the posts on this thread only further to prove my points made. This game is a MMORPG not a MOBA and thus isolating yourself and giving false pretexts as to why only ruins the game.

PvP is ment to be enjoyed by anyone who engages and not just "organized elite guilds" who "frown upon the lesser peoples".

wrong this is pvp and pvp is competitive.

it was never made for casuals to enjoy it. infact we dont want casuals in pvp. unfortunately we kinda need them to provide enough action outside of primetime hours. its fine aslong as they dont give their worthless opinions about what they think pvp should be like cos if that stuff is listened to it means the game will die very quickly. that has happened countless times before in other mmos.

ideally we want a huge amount of organized guilds so we dont need casuals at all but that is fiction as not enough ppl on the planet still playing these games are good enough to provide that much population. also alot of good players dont bother with this modern style of mmos anymore cos well its kinda pointless since most games are made for noobs these days.

sounds aggressive i know. but you know what, when randoms stop ruining game after game with their useless whine and endless complains about how unfair it is till they eventually get their way and another game with huge potential goes down the toilet i will stop hating on them.

And there I was about to write how wrong the op is. Would be nice to have people like you on their own dedicated servers so us "noobs" would not have the displeasure of crossing your path. Elitist snob.

lao

Gaudrath wrote: »

lao wrote: »

1) believe it or not 15 ppl is a zerg. no good group of players would lower themself to run that many. yes i played GW2 during the first 2 months. we ran 5 man against the war legends zerg with quite some success but GW2 suffered from the same problems ESO has. literally no skill elements therefor we got bored and quit.

2) its more like a reasonable opinion based upon solid facts u provided urself

1) While zerg size does depend on the game, in GW2 15 people is not a zerg. 50+ people is a zerg. Another thing is - you can't get a zerg on TS and perfectly coordinated. We shall all rue the day someone manages to do that.
So, given the small map size in GW2 and general gameplay issues, if you actually wanted to not be continuously farmed, you had no choice but to run a minimum of 10-15 people on TS. 5-man groups would be reduced to PvE resource taking, and that's it. Until you got too annoying, then you'd get wiped out, skill or no skill.

2) Since we know nothing of each other, I think your "solid facts" are not worth much.

Thing is, I never liked the attitude that since we run on TS and are so perfectly optimized, we are somehow more deserving than other players. That's pure bull. Mass PvP will never be an e-sport, numbers - not skill - will always win, and e-peen contests are for little boys and girls who have nothing better to brag about.

1) as i said i ran 5 man group in gw2 for 2 months and we did very well in WvW. the fact that u think u need 15 ppl again proves that uve never actually been in a good group. and ur not limited to ressource taking cos no good player gives a flying fox about any of that objective stuff. what we do is hang in between ressource nodes and keeps and farm the nerds that try to take them over and over and over.

2) i dont need to know anything about you as a player as u provided me with those facts in ur previous posts. i didnt bring them up, you did.

3) this thread is about casuals whining at "pro´s" not the other way around. u should try to not forget that.

ruzlb16_ESO

Is this actually a serious thread? It's quite hard to tell; the OP ha some good points railing against the extreme minority of elite guilds that are genuinely so elitist they don't help their factions out (you can count the number of these on one hand and have spare fingers), and then rails against using Voice Chat...? Really? Like there's no skill involved in following raid leader directions unless they're written down? Or arguing against drawing an enemy back to a fortress - which is also known as 'picking terrain favourable to you', something Sun Tzu was pretty big on.
I think there's meant to be a valid critique of something buried in the OP, but it's so hidden beneath ridiculous things I'm tempted to call it out as trolling. I raid lead for my guild, and yeah, we demand voice comms. hat because sometimes I'm in the middle of a fight and need to issue an instruction without stopping dead for 30 seconds to type it.
Reading that sort of thing just leaves me with the feeling that the OP would like to be considered an elite player, but doesn't want to go to any of the effort needed to do so, so he simply criticises those who do for doing so. It's necessary to avoid elitism - no-one denies that, not least because L33T players areassholes - but some of the things being lumped into 'elite' here are just a matter of professionalism. And professionalism is a good thing to see in a guild.

Gaudrath

lao wrote: »

and ur not limited to ressource taking cos no good player gives a flying fox about any of that objective stuff.

Ah, so good players do not care about objectives in an objective based game? Yeah.

lao

Gaudrath wrote: »

lao wrote: »

and ur not limited to ressource taking cos no good player gives a flying fox about any of that objective stuff.

Ah, so good players do not care about objectives in an objective based game? Yeah.

no1 cares what the game is based upon. objectives were only ever introduced to give bad players something to play around with. something that gives them some feeling of beeing relevant. something they can do without getting stomped all day.

this doesnt mean that players who are actually capable of playing the game have to care about them. we are in for the fights and only for that. we couldnt care less if the opposing factions own every single keep on the map. we dont give a *** about who is emperor either.

we care about what once was the fundamental base of mmos before the influx of noobs came to the genre with WoW. competitive fights between players without the interference of guards, walls stupid supply routes and crap like that.

the mere existence of objective based pvp is one of the main reasons why not a single modern mmo survives its 2nd year. developers make games in a way so it pleases the masses of headless chickens. the same headless chickens who quit a couple of months in when they realized how boring and useless objective based pvp is. then they move on to the next objective based mmo and repeat the same process till they get bored and quit again. this is how einstein defined insanity fyi. doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.

then lets have a look at games that were made without objective based pvp in mind. DAoC and UO for example. these games are still going strong after over a decade cos they actually offer skillbased competitive combat that is fun even after many years.

devs need to finally understand the fundamental flaw in their thinking. casuals is not what keeps games alive, this has been proven countless times over the last 10 years. its the pro teams that keep a game alive by constantly challenging themself and others to improve their play. as a dev u wanna please those by making games that are not easy to master and encourage real pvp rather than PvWall.

it doesnt even matter if the casuals quit cos its too hard for them. we dont need them. we never did and we never will cos if the game is good by the definition of competitive players they will stay for decades as competition never gets boring. it is about time developers realize this and start repairing the damage WoW caused by going back to the roots of the genre and designing the games for competitive play again.

there is a reason why games like dota/sc2/cs are successful over many years while mmos die 1-2 years after they went live. those games are competitive. mmos havent been competitve since more than a decade now.

i have no idea why any developer would ever even consider casuals while making a game. they are casuals, they play a couple hours a week and move on the moment a new game with fancier graphics comes out. while they are there they dont even know whats going on. they will never make an impact big enough to even remotely become a factor. why on earth would u make games with them as the main target group. its absolutely stupid. make a game with the pros as target group and u have a playerbase thats 10 times smaller but stays 20 times longer. for those who are bad at math (appearantly every single development studio that has released an mmo in the last 10 years) yes u make more money of the pros than the casuals. also u make it over a much longer time which secures a constant income over many years rather than a big push of income for a couple months.

RaZaddha

lao wrote: »

RaZaddha wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

lao wrote: »

and ur not limited to ressource taking cos no good player gives a flying fox about any of that objective stuff.

Ah, so good players do not care about objectives in an objective based game? Yeah.

no1 cares what the game is based upon. objectives were only ever introduced to give bad players something to play around with. something that gives them some feeling of beeing relevant. something they can do without getting stomped all day.

this doesnt mean that players who are actually capable of playing the game have to care about them. we are in for the fights and only for that. we couldnt care less if the opposing factions own every single keep on the map. we dont give a *** about who is emperor either.

we care about what once was the fundamental base of mmos before the influx of noobs came to the genre with WoW. competitive fights between players without the interference of guards, walls stupid supply routes and crap like that.

the mere existence of objective based pvp is one of the main reasons why not a single modern mmo survives its 2nd year. developers make games in a way so it pleases the masses of headless chickens. the same headless chickens who quit a couple of months in when they realized how boring and useless objective based pvp is. then they move on to the next objective based mmo and repeat the same process till they get bored and quit again. this is how einstein defined insanity fyi. doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.

then lets have a look at games that were made without objective based pvp in mind. DAoC and UO for example. these games are still going strong after over a decade cos they actually offer skillbased competitive combat that is fun even after many years.

devs need to finally understand the fundamental flaw in their thinking. casuals is not what keeps games alive, this has been proven countless times over the last 10 years. its the pro teams that keep a game alive by constantly challenging themself and others to improve their play. as a dev u wanna please those by making games that are not easy to master and encourage real pvp rather than PvWall.

it doesnt even matter if the casuals quit cos its too hard for them. we dont need them. we never did and we never will cos if the game is good by the definition of competitive players they will stay for decades as competition never gets boring. it is about time developers realize this and start repairing the damage WoW caused by going back to the roots of the genre and designing the games for competitive play again.

there is a reason why games like dota/sc2/cs are successful over many years while mmos die 1-2 years after they went live. those games are competitive. mmos havent been competitve since more than a decade now.

i have no idea why any developer would ever even consider casuals while making a game. they are casuals, they play a couple hours a week and move on the moment a new game with fancier graphics comes out. while they are there they dont even know whats going on. they will never make an impact big enough to even remotely become a factor. why on earth would u make games with them as the main target group. its absolutely stupid. make a game with the pros as target group and u have a playerbase thats 10 times smaller but stays 20 times longer. for those who are bad at math (appearantly every single development studio that has released an mmo in the last 10 years) yes u make more money of the pros than the casuals. also u make it over a much longer time which secures a constant income over many years rather than a big push of income for a couple months.

Comedy gold.

i wouldnt expect u to have the mental capacity to comprehend any of what i said, dont worry. keep zerging

I will admit, you do have some points in your posts, being able to cater to the more hardcore and competitive players is the best way to make sure pvp will survive on the long run, but the rest of your post is so full of... [snip], that it makes really hard not to laugh at you.

Gunsang

Recipe for today's entertainment:

Leave the casual players to themselves.
Leave the competitive players to themselves.
If one crosses a line, get staff to shove them back in.
Send recommendations to staff (or guild leaders that listen)
Hug your mudcrab.
Prepare 2L bottle of pop and chips
Enjoy your game
You dropped a chip--
No don't eat th-
Oh that's just nasty.

lao

RaZaddha wrote: »

lao wrote: »

RaZaddha wrote: »

lao wrote: »

RaZaddha wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

lao wrote: »

and ur not limited to ressource taking cos no good player gives a flying fox about any of that objective stuff.

Ah, so good players do not care about objectives in an objective based game? Yeah.

no1 cares what the game is based upon. objectives were only ever introduced to give bad players something to play around with. something that gives them some feeling of beeing relevant. something they can do without getting stomped all day.

this doesnt mean that players who are actually capable of playing the game have to care about them. we are in for the fights and only for that. we couldnt care less if the opposing factions own every single keep on the map. we dont give a *** about who is emperor either.

we care about what once was the fundamental base of mmos before the influx of noobs came to the genre with WoW. competitive fights between players without the interference of guards, walls stupid supply routes and crap like that.

the mere existence of objective based pvp is one of the main reasons why not a single modern mmo survives its 2nd year. developers make games in a way so it pleases the masses of headless chickens. the same headless chickens who quit a couple of months in when they realized how boring and useless objective based pvp is. then they move on to the next objective based mmo and repeat the same process till they get bored and quit again. this is how einstein defined insanity fyi. doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.

then lets have a look at games that were made without objective based pvp in mind. DAoC and UO for example. these games are still going strong after over a decade cos they actually offer skillbased competitive combat that is fun even after many years.

devs need to finally understand the fundamental flaw in their thinking. casuals is not what keeps games alive, this has been proven countless times over the last 10 years. its the pro teams that keep a game alive by constantly challenging themself and others to improve their play. as a dev u wanna please those by making games that are not easy to master and encourage real pvp rather than PvWall.

it doesnt even matter if the casuals quit cos its too hard for them. we dont need them. we never did and we never will cos if the game is good by the definition of competitive players they will stay for decades as competition never gets boring. it is about time developers realize this and start repairing the damage WoW caused by going back to the roots of the genre and designing the games for competitive play again.

there is a reason why games like dota/sc2/cs are successful over many years while mmos die 1-2 years after they went live. those games are competitive. mmos havent been competitve since more than a decade now.

i have no idea why any developer would ever even consider casuals while making a game. they are casuals, they play a couple hours a week and move on the moment a new game with fancier graphics comes out. while they are there they dont even know whats going on. they will never make an impact big enough to even remotely become a factor. why on earth would u make games with them as the main target group. its absolutely stupid. make a game with the pros as target group and u have a playerbase thats 10 times smaller but stays 20 times longer. for those who are bad at math (appearantly every single development studio that has released an mmo in the last 10 years) yes u make more money of the pros than the casuals. also u make it over a much longer time which secures a constant income over many years rather than a big push of income for a couple months.

Comedy gold.

i wouldnt expect u to have the mental capacity to comprehend any of what i said, dont worry. keep zerging

I will admit, you do have some points in your posts, being able to cater to the more hardcore and competitive players is the best way to make sure pvp will survive on the long run, but the rest of your post is so full of... ***, that it makes really hard not to laugh at you.

from the pov of a zergling it might appear that way so ill forgive ur ignorance since its based on inexperience and general cluelessness about the nature of the genre or competitive gaming in general but reality is everything i said is 100% true.

i know it makes u mad when i say we dont need casuals for anything cos ur appearantly one of them but thats just how it is.

Where did you get the idea that I'm a zergling?

"100% true", this is comedy gold man, that's what I'm telling you, lose the arrogant, self-centered and elitist attitude and people might actually start taking you seriously. Until you remove the layers of crap from your posts you are just a laughing stock.

1) judging from the bullcrap u type here its pretty obvious that ur a zergling.

2) i couldnt care less if some nonfactors think my posts are funny. i couldnt care less about their opinions either. the few proper gamers left in the mmo business will agree with everything i said and thats all that matters. its kinda funny that term "elitist" didnt even exist back in the days.

its more like a huge influx of casual untalented ppl with no brain suddenly steps into the mmo genre with the introduction of crap like WoW and demand to be granted an opinion on how mmos should be and shouldnt be and when u tell them to gtfo and leave the genre in peace which we proper gamers have been playing for years your suddenly an elitist.

so im sry when i have little to no respect for these morons. it has nothing to do with me thinking that im somehow a superior human or anything, its simply due to a certain type of gamer coming late into a genre and then changing it completely into something else and then call oldschool ppl who have always been playing for competition elitists. im equally pissed of at developers giving in and catering to them but atleast it gives me a certain amount of satisfaction knowing they are shoveling their own grave by doing so. its just sad that one of the best genres on the market gets pulled down to something so casual during the process. theres plenty of singleplayer games which are intended for casual gaming. multiplayer games however have always been about competition and should always be and for most genres that is still true but mmos got somehow degenerated to some noskill zerging crap that all of a sudden is "just for fun".

well it is no fun for competitive players anymore and then ppl like you who have the whole arsenal of singleplayer games for casual fun at ur disposal come here and demand our genre to be changed to fit ur needs. well im sry but we wont accept that. not now, not ever.

from my pov u can all get lost and go back to playing solitaire for all i care. that would be the salvation for mmos and the casuals wouldnt have to worry about getting roflstomped by us big bad "elitists" anymore either. win-win situation for both sides, dont u think?