Skull Crusher Needs YOU (AD/EP)

Lzmegaboy

Good fight tonight guys, I was glad to see a fight from both EP and DC on both sides of the map, it was extremely fun fighting and we enjoyed your company, I'm happy to see the fight back and I look forward to seeing more of you on the battlefield in the coming weeks.

-LZ, Dominion
~The Noore

limeli8

Phoenix99 wrote: »

If you mean NA Skull Crusher, then I can only say that DC hardly hits 3 bars and full population cap I've seen maybe a couple of times.

What I observed though is that DC side is much better organized in this campaign than in other campaigns. ADs are mostly a bunch of mindless zergers in all campaigns, and they simply win in battles of Zerg vs Zerg due to numbers alone. (elf and cat lovers are numerous, but mostly bad)

I have to give a credit to AD pack of Vampires with VR10 Night Mistress leading them (seriously VR10 10 days after the official release?). They are very annoying, but most of that is caused by how unbalanced the mist form is on vampire skill set if it is in hands of a skilled player. Worry not though, we are already preparing a group of dedicated vampire hunters with skill sets specifically designed to kill vampires, even if they will suck at other things. That requires some leveling time though, so the mass vampires on AD will still be some annoyance for a time.

We proved that we can if not beat, then hold a full cap of AD vs our 2 bars of DC. If only EP would not be pushing hard as well during the Angry Joe's Invasion (12th Apr), we would probably not lose as much as w did, but once the population caps went back to around 2 bars each, we started to gain momentum and eventually caped the whole map back by late night early morning hours.

I loled so hard at this "I have to give a credit to AD pack of Vampires with VR10 Night Mistress leading them (seriously VR10 10 days after the official release?)" is going into my sig. LOL i wasn't leading anything but it sure sounds awesome! Lol "Vampire Queen of AD" - I like the sound of that!

Phoenix99

@‌Dleatherus

Nah, I'm not losing heart, I am just pissed that I've spent vast majority of my time in PvP since level 20ish and leveled up to 40ish through all these days, and now I get trashed by people who grinded VR levels in that time in PvE, even though half of them are bad (over extending, doing some stupid stuff). The biggest turn down was a point where I see two VR vamps RUSHING IN!!! in the mist form!!!! into a pack of 12-18 people, use two skills and kill 90% of them (the ones who had no stamina or forgot how to roll in while in the panic mode). I also heavily dislike this direction of the PvP changing into be a sorc or be a vampire, otherwise GL to you. It was fine when we saw an odd appearance here and there of 1-2, but now it got ridiculous.

I had similar move vs EPs with my Green armor Orc, but I had to use my HA active to not get bursted or locked down, ran in with some cover around a tower near a resource camp, used standard and talons and then had to roll out and move back with a block hoping I will not die and a healer will notice that I am quite low. Funny thing is, that EPs instead of running back, sent more people into the dragons standard and then got killed around it by much smaller force. With vampires mist form such moves are trivial, but I will not turn my main into a vamp, as this (Skull Crusher) was supposed to be RP PvP campaign. I will however have no such qualms with my alt sorc builds.

Even then the most trouble for me was caused by that face rushing vampire DK, I usually survive the first burst as I can roll out of the ult and talons, but since stamina is heavily taxed and i have a couple of skill using that too, I die eventually, while talons are getting used over and over again and you are chased by a misty vamp. Problem is, that he gets his ult refreshed so fast due to the mass deaths, that I felt at times like he has a refresher or something.

Night Mistress is mega annoying with her volcanic runes (?), and just general sorc skill set.

Zael (? - the templar vampire) does some yolo stuff, and often pays the price

the Khajit NB vampire is mostly useless from my perspective, unless you get ganked somewhere alone and he jumps on you from stealth.

Others I did not get name of or even appearance, because they are mostly much less skilled. I tend to remember those that pose some threat, although I noticed another DK vamp in the works, not sure if it's the part of the The N. flock of pale chicks or not.

Rykoth

Would love to see AD fight back without VR Vampires. See how they fare then. Just sayin'

limeli8

Rykoth wrote: »

Would love to see AD fight back without VR Vampires. See how they fare then. Just sayin'

I know right? Give them some wiffle bats! Or this whole leveling thing and gearing and min maxing skills and general effort to better your character are 2 much hassle. Also all that rich lore and story line game has to offer... Who needs that? I'll just level by stomping faces! And if anyone finds a way to do it faster by doing something different that's just not fair!!! /nerf! LOl as far as vampires go, lol try it see how you like dying to 1 shot form fire ballista fired by a level 10 or oil or guards half of which do fire damage. And for all the people who haven't figured it out yet you can break mist form by using interrupt bash so before talking about things being OP lol just try finding solutions that aren't on the forums!

Dleatherus

@Phoenix99‌

heh - i myself am disliking the PvE and enjoying the PvP, and as a result am myself only level 46 - and get owned by enemy VR's all the time - and laughed at by all my friends in the guild that are now VR's

my own take on it is that it's personal choices - i chose not to power level in order to get stuck into PvP asap - with that choice comes the realization and recognition that my choice afforded me early personal success in the campaign that has been overtaken by those that leveled and geared up

a pack of anything can be incredibly nasty if it is played correctly - be that werewolf dragonknights, destro/restro staff nighblades, a PACK of bolt mages dodging in and spamming crystal shards on a victim and dodging out is nigh on impossible to control

i'm seeing ESO as an incredibly fun and at times frustrating game of rock paper scissors

fun if you are the one creating new builds and strategies and tactics - frustrating if you are the one that they are being used against and having to figure out new ways of not only countering, but defeating the latest creation of your opponent

i was enjoying other things last night - but i heard that AD were down to a last stand battle in Alessia to defend our throne - sounds like a brilliant time and hopefully am there for the next one

The Noore will be out in some numbers this weekend on and off as we try out some things - it had been planned a week ago - and to be honest we expected the map to still be entirely blue - we'll see how it goes - would be great if DC and EP could muster some forces for an epic weekend

As weird as it might sound, The Noore is all for having the throne taken away and being pushed back legitimately (ie. not 'letting' our opponenents take it back just to make them feel good) and having to fight back - i think most of us will agree that a campaign where the balance of power is always being fought over is better than a stagnant campaign with no interest from either side

D.

Phoenix99

@‌limeli8

Hey, while I do recognize amount of work (time) that was required to get you to high vet and then PvP engagements, I think you are missing something.

You realize that Mist form does not display "targeting" option even when you hoover directly on top of the misted player. I've been hitting you guys with stampede in between your mists and then sometimes fire lashes, so I know what I am talking about. Casting an interrupt action is extremely difficult on a misted vampire, as you have to basically guess distance (by noticing if your close combat skills light up - fire whip for example) and then hit it on extremely fast moving target. I dare to say that hitting stampedes between your mist usage is easier than that, and it's already near impossible to do more than twice in a row reliably. I personally prefer using dark talons (DK) or encase (Sorc) when I see mists running around me. It is the most reliable way of locking a misted vamp down.

I call BS on fire balista killing you in one shot when you are VR ranked with fire res items on. You die in one shot from emperor siege hits, but then again almost everyone is, with exception of super tanky builds. I was hitting you from regular ballista and you were not even going down to 50% HP, that's why i switched to killing all the siege eq you deploy.

Oils wreck faces of vast majority of player base, the difference is, that vampires can run in between the usage of oils way easier than non vampires. You did that a lot, just running past the oils in mist form after they got deployed, so please save that BS for someone else.

Tell me when was the last time when you died just from the guards as a VR rank? I am not dying to them as a non-VR player when in group of 6 and with the good focus fire, so I can't see how can you with superior mobility, mist form and way more dps for focus fire.

Harbingers

Rykoth wrote: »

Would love to see AD fight back without VR Vampires. See how they fare then. Just sayin'

I would love to see DC get off their behinds and get some real VR challenges for us.

Harbingers

Just wanted to clear some stuff up for you.

"I have to give a credit to AD pack of Vampires with VR10 Night Mistress leading them (seriously VR10 10 days after the official release?). "

We have two squad callers myself Karesh Zeal and Mayrin, in our division(The mostly VR) of the Noore - called "The South Wind". There are plenty of players that have pushed content specifically for the fact of getting to VR10 and getting into PvP at... say it with me... Level Cap. Yes, Level Cap the most important part about PvP.

"They are very annoying, but most of that is caused by how unbalanced the mist form is on vampire skill set if it is in hands of a skilled player."

Mist Form is a movement tool and a damage sponge. I think you need to do a bit of research before you claim it is unbalanced.


"Yes, good job on face rolling with 40+ VR half of which are vampires, a half bar DC with full bar EP smacking us as well."

There is a common issue among ESO I have noticed in that is people tend to exaggerate. I have recommended to many allies and guildies the same thing I will say to you. Learn to group and count heads once you have ascertained an approximant head count add 2-10 depend on how many heads there are for stealthers.

That said, these 40+ VR's is a vastly and grossly overblown number. The squad defending/attacking DC flank consisted of, at maximum ten(10) people. At minimum Seven(7) who I will list for you so you do not get confused again.

Mayrin, Trelia, Tarja , Luvboard, Night Mistress, Cavo, Isyldra, and Karesh Zeal.

If you add in The other Noore players, MOSTLY non-VR tasked with the EP side of the map The Noore had at maximum 30 players out and only at 3 times were we actually in the same place at the same time.

As for vampires half over half of are VR's in that force are vampires right now and I agree I do not like the persona of "Underworld Online" this game has taken on since the PTS, but it is the nature of the beast ZOS has decided to unleash on to unsuspecting TES fans.

"...also at a time of the week where some of the guilds were simply not active (you know, work and stuff)"

That is the nature of Persistent PvP. No bones about it.


I hope that was able to clear up some of your thoughts and mis-information about The Noore and PvP. Feel free to post up any more hear for further clarification.

Cheers,

Phoenix99

I will address a couple of points:

1) If Mist form is 'just dmg sponge and mobility", why so many of you are vampires? Let me enlighten you on general "balance" topic.

First superior mobility in ANY PvP environment is desired. It gives escape mechanisms, initiation mechanisms and tactical advantage of engaging in combat on better terms than your enemy. You are less punished for getting caught out of position, and you punish harder someone out of position on the enemy.

Second, if mobility skills are in the PvP game then mobility should be obtainable for all, be it either in items or skills. Now, you get that super mobility from the Mist form, which also does dmg mitigation and does not allow for single target spells to be cast on the target. In MOBAs (I am a retired DotA player) you get means to match mobility and other hero specific abilities, to less extent, than the abilities themselves, but still close enough. There is blink, there is shadow walk (invis), there is a pushing item.

Third, skills should have numerous reliable counters. Be it dmg mitigation, movement impairment or silencing of skills. There are THREE reliable ways to imapair mobility of someone using mist form. DK dark talons, Sorc encase, and Sorc ult Negate magic if you drop it on top of someone who got knocked/stunned/pulled/immobilized

In other COMPETITIVE PvP games, there are numerous skills, be that on heroes or items that can do so. First, there are usually no limits to chain stunning, Second, there are silencing abilities, and last there are silencing and morphing abilities on items that disable casting.

You are now not credible enough when you are pushing vampire builds so heavily in your guild. Tell me, how many non-vampires will be core PvP players if nothing changes with the skill sets? I dare to say, ZERO, that's how strong the skill is. (not to mention some other abuses, like crypt swarm stuff)

2) When counting heads, you should also count your allies. Perhaps indeed it's not like 20 VR vampires there yet, but there are quite a few vampires, even not in YOUR guild, but still on AD, including lower level ones. Did you count how many other VR players where there aside of your group, that you are pointing out to me my calculation error, based on your group alone?

Sure, they were less organized, but in conjunction with your guild, it was still enough. I would say we had maybe 10-15 VR players total, which were in range 1-3 on the DC side during the time of high EP activity and your push.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

I feel people are blowing the vampire situation in PvP out of proportion. If vampires become such a huge problem in PvP then people will start using more and more fighter's guild skills to counter them. I know some people (like myself) are already planning out alt characters that will be designed for vamp/were killing as their primary build.

I've already leveled up Silver Bolts and morphed it to Silver Leash for instances when I know there are players in the area that the ability will affect. I also have the passive for werewolf damage from fighter's guild and the damage bonuses. You get tons of skill points in the game if you do more than PvP. So dumping a few points in to Fighter's guild shouldn't be a problem and if Silver Leash procs banish.. those vamps/weres are toasted.

Also a lot of people don't know what all the game offers and there are counters or ways to get similar effects for most things in the game. Invisibility potions exist for classes without the ability to cast in combat stealth. Detection potions exist so players don't have to use Mage Light to counter stealth players.

Dleatherus

exactly - we already have a number of folks who have silver bolts etc leveled up to counter vampires and werewolves, as well as the fighter guild passives for that purpose

you didn't hear our folks complaining about getting one shot by the DC emperor - and he did that day after day after day on us - we figured out a way around it - obviously not going to explain that here - we'll let you figure it out for yourselves

remember with only 5 abilities slotted it's rock - paper - scissors ... if you have a lot of rocks and the enemy has a lot of paper, figure out how to get a hold of scissors - that might be by having new abilities, or by keeping the abilities and improvising/developing new strategies and tactics or a combo of the two

D.

Phoenix99

*sigh*. Fighters guild skills, aside of the ULT are near useless... if you believe that 5% chance to do heavy (lethal) damage on a skill that uses a lot of stamina ( a HEAVILY taxed resource) is the solution then I will disappoint you. Sure it works once in a blue moon (killed myself with it once or twice during all those days of fighting), but it is not a RELIABLE counter. Leash is also bugged at the moment, not always it drags the enemy back, actually it works very rarely. It might be due to a pull being considered a hard CC, so if a vampire breaks the knockdown, he is immune. Another thing is, you can't aim it on vampires in the mist form. Another skill that is semi useful is 'trap the beast', but it's only good for holding breaches in the walls, and even then volcanic rune or daedric mines are way better for that role. If you would increase the chance of silver bolts doing extra dmg to 15-20% then we would be talking about a reliable counter (or cut the cost to 33% of the current cost, so you can play the RNG game)

Currently the Vampire DK with sword and shield + standard is THE cheese build for PvP. Then you have various others vampire builds, including the one that uses Devouring swarm exploit (check on the build, it was already in PST), and then you have sorc builds based around blinks. Anything else and you are not going for the biggest potential in PvP, because you will be severely lacking in mobility and survivability.

Harbingers

"In MOBAs (I am a retired DotA player) you get means to match mobility and other hero specific abilities, to less extent, than the abilities themselves, but still close enough. There is blink, there is shadow walk (invis), there is a pushing item."

This is persistant world not an arena game, let us not forget that. I use Vampire not *Because* of drain swarm and mist, I use it for a single simple reason. Supernatural Recovery. By having it on top of the 9% from spell charge(Altmer Racial.) that means at most I have to use two slots to gain 100 magicka regen. All be it that other slot is used for fire resist, it allows me at top end to only use one item with magicka regen + a set bonus that does.

Giving me a slot for an Armor Ring, Thus allowing me to use food instead of drink and all light armor but still reach over charge armor. Since I am a healer if I am on my game I can negate all extra effects of fire and health degen.

"2) When counting heads, you should also count your allies. Perhaps indeed it's not like 20 VR vampires there yet, but there are quite a few vampires, even not in YOUR guild, but still on AD, including lower level ones. Did you count how many other VR players where there aside of your group, that you are pointing out to me my calculation error, based on your group alone?"

I can recall that every time except for keeps which DC were a part of, Chalman and BRK that my force was only The South Wind force. 7-10 people holding your entire Zerg that was trying to go south inside of Ash.

"You are now not credible enough when you are pushing vampire builds so heavily in your guild. Tell me, how many non-vampires will be core PvP players if nothing changes with the skill sets? I dare to say, ZERO, that's how strong the skill is. (not to mention some other abuses, like crypt swarm stuff)"


Sadly it seems you think to know what I do and why I do it. I have not pushed vampirism within' my guild at all.

Infact I recommended anyone not experienced in the game to not touch the stuff, as without proper coordination an un-practice vamp is nearly useless. A lot of our core PvP'ers especially those from the PTS are not vampires or werewolves and choose the pureblood root, which provides nice balance overall to the situation. I played for the majority of the PTS a Pureblood Khajiit Dot spec Dragon Knight I choose pure blood because neither Vampire or Werewolf fit my build. I *Chose* Vampire for my Templar in the reason stated above in terms of Min/Maxing.

Give it time for the fighters guild pros get to get going and people to realize how much of a gimp vampire actually is to the common player and things will even out.

Lastly there is plenty of ways to counter mist form, the most prevently for the DC is their zerg focusing that target through mist, happens more often then you think.

Harbingers

Phoenix99 wrote: »

@Zael (? - the templar vampire) does some yolo stuff, and often pays the price

As for your little Personal Jab, It is Zeal. And I was informed "yolo" means you only live once. I actually only live as many times as I can Rez and doing stupid stuff when not on a "keep take run" is quite fun, thanks!

Remember that time I sat inside one of your castles for an hour and a half before sneaking the scroll out right from underneath your noise? Pays off doesn't it.

Phoenix99

Harbingers wrote: »

This is persistant world not an arena game, let us not forget that.

Indeed it is not, but balancing rules are the same for any PvP environment. Imagine a blink ability in an FPS on some class, or global teleport racial ability on some RTS game. Those things would be grabbed instantly.

It was not a personal jab, more of threat and style of play assessment from my perspective. Sure sometimes you might get a reward, since that style of play is high risk, but sometimes high reward. I sometimes also make high risk plays if i see a chance for gaining significant advantage (for example eliminating a healer)

In no PvP "a competitive" player wants to rely on the blessings and good mood of the RNG goods. Would you like if your mist would work on 20% occasions when you press the button? Would a blinking sorc like if the direction he chose for teleport is there only in 15% of cases? Would you like if heal randomly would apply from 0 to current limit of health points restored? I believe the answer is a simple "no".

So telling people that a skill with 5% chance and huge, resource cost, which is already heavily taxed by other abilities, is a counter, is offending their intelligence.

Want to make the skill a real counter? Cut the extra dmg by 75%, but make it apply on each shot.

Harbingers

Phoenix99 wrote: »

In no PvP "a competitive" player wants to rely on the blessings and good mood of the RNG goods. Would you like if your mist would work on 20% occasions when you press the button? Would a blinking sorc like if the direction he chose for teleport is there only in 15% of cases? Would you like if heal randomly would apply from 0 to current limit of health points restored? I believe the answer is a simple "no".

So telling people that a skill with 5% chance and huge, resource cost, which is already heavily taxed by other abilities, is a counter, is offending their intelligence.

Want to make the skill a real counter? Cut the extra dmg by 75%, but make it apply on each shot.

Mistform = Stunned/rooted while trying to mist.
Blink = Wrong direction on camera because of a knockback
Heal Rate = Meatbags / Disease Weapons.

All these things exist. All of them or modifiable or counter able. Your point being? We already deal with player driven RNG every time we step into the game.

Infact I agree and recommend against silver bolts because if I deem the person a threat I will put Reflect on you and watch you melt your own face off a double proc.

Then again 9 ult per vamp kill or WW kill is really really tasty!

Dleatherus

in the fighters guild passives it allows you to use the undead/daedra bonuses against werewolves - now look at what that does against a pack of vampires/werewolves - just the shield alone is awesome against vamps/ww's - more so in a coordinated group where no one build rules
- i have single shot killed vamps with silver bolts on the odd occasion it procs
- it's why only so many of us are vamps, so many are werewolves, and so many are neither - interweaving the skills and abilities of it all amongst us is what makes us more formidable - and i will have to say that there is a guild in DC that beats us pretty much hands down every time with even numbers - NERF DC PLAYERS!!!

if you think it's not worthy advice don't take it - the guys who played a pivotal part in taking the map against superior numbers are trying to give you hints, tips and encouragement

D.

Phoenix99

Harbingers wrote: »

Mistform = Stunned/rooted while trying to mist.
Blink = Wrong direction on camera because of a knockback
Heal Rate = Meatbags / Disease Weapons.

1) if you are stunned or rooted before you mist, then it probably means you were caught out of position with enemy nearby. besides, what do you guys use stamina for. Break hard cc and be immune to it and have two defensive rolls that break soft cc... I've seen it done by people in your group even, so it's not black magic or something hard to grasp. I agree however that rooting a misted vampire is one of the methods of killing it (especially if you can catch it in the middle of mist duration, so it will expire while he is still rotted and probably taking AoE beating). There are however only 2 AoE roots that you can reliably and consecutively hit on such targets, so that limits good vampire killers to two classes, DK and Sorc.

2) It's player's skill on controlling the camera, nothing random built in the skill itself

3) again not a random factor per skill usage, but a smart play from the enemy ... call it tactics and its available to everyone.

@‌Dleatherus

Obviously a dedicated and well co-ordinated group has much better chances, I even told you before that DC will be building a dedicated vampire slaying group, the skill set however is not something very useful otherwise, while vampire skillset, especially with the current mist, is useful in vast majority of situations. You are again pointing to FG skills. Not sure if the shield you mention is one of the morphs of circle of protection, if so I can agree to a certain degree, if you have stamina recovery good enough to be able to use stamina based skills A LOT, and still be able to retain some for emergency situations (rolls, breaking hard cc, blocking), then you can crawl in the fight with it, you can even try to use other skills, but IMO the only really useful and reliable skill there is the ultimate.

I guess I will stop here, because it seems we will simply continue to disagree until balance patches (probably around the campaigns reset, when there will be a lot of data to base it on). Thread has been derailed much enough

So going back to the topic, see you on the battlefield, probably even tonight, although I will still not be vet ranked. I need to crawl back to the top 20 on the campaign leaderboards *sigh*

Harbingers

Since it appears we are on two separate pages here. I will end my part in this discussion with.

You have forgotten the key thing. I chose vampire, everyone that is in the know chose vampire. With the knowledge that we will get obligated by Siege and DK and we will without a doubt get one shot by a silver bolts at least once in our characters span as a vampire. We accepted this penalty for the powers of vampirism provides.

OP? I think not.

Mayrin_ESO

This thread is quite entertaining...but it is missing something... NERF RULERS!!!! There we go! That is all...

Dleatherus

Rykoth wrote: »

Would love to see AD fight back without VR Vampires. See how they fare then. Just sayin'

would like to see you get to VR5+ and then not use YOUR skills

award to you for most ridiculous post in this thread yet

D.

Dleatherus

How MOST of us in The Noore are:




How DC thinks ALL of us are:




this post was brought to you by the numbers 20 NOT 200, and the
letters M ... I ... S ... T ... F ... O ... R ... M


D

Harbingers

Is laughing this much s'pose to hurt?

texasbhoy

OK D, that is great!

pad11

Now THAT is funny!

Trelia

Go get 'em D!!!! Three cheers for the Fearless leader of the Vampire Guild!!!!!

UglyTriangle

i

Grim13 wrote: »

lol I've nearly given up on Skullcrusher because everyone gets murdered by your campers as we attempt to leave our home base.

As for the camping groups, I know who used to lead those and he usually had them in the wee hours of the morning or in the middle of the day when virtually nobody in any of the three alliances was playing. The good news for you is that he changed campaigns.

Still not seeing how DC had such a "massive" overpopulation. The so-called need for a massive influx of AD/EP soldiers is asinine. The situation is nowhere near as bad as Dawncrusher, which is really just a ticket for the zerg-train. Of course the numbers on Skull Crusher were bigger during the evening (when DC and EP would hit two bars), but it was like that for all teams. It would seem perhaps AD may have finally found people who actually know how to coordinate and communicate. Hopefully this might mean an end to the accusations of severe population imbalances and instead force players to realize it was a lack of quality leadership on the battlefield.

weiwuwei87ub17_ESO

Hey, how can I find out about joining The Noore? I see you all on a lot and it seems Noore is really the only serious pvp guild Dominion side on Skull Crusher. My main is a Nightblade 'Crevan Voss', and I'm a pretty committed pvp'er. Thanks.

tyllathine

www.thenoore.com submit an application.