The Arcanist class “ruined” ESO

nb_rich

The game is not literally “ruined” but it has created the most unbalanced game since the release of the Arcanist

When the Arcanist released every dps was a Arcanist and if you weren’t you just felt left out with how little damage you did compared to it and how easy the Arcanist rotation is compared to every other class while providing you self healing, damage shields, buffs, penetration and some of the best passives. This made every other dps class pretty useless.

Subclassing was then released hoping to balance out the game, but instead this just made it worse since everyone was using Harold of the Tome with skill lines that provide better passives like Assassination. Players that don’t like making new characters now had access to Harold of the Tome on their main class.

To further try to balance the game, class masteries were released that now defeats the purpose of subclassing. Pure classes are hitting 50K+ more dps than their subclass versions. 50K+ is a drastic dps difference that pretty much “forces” end game players into pure builds.

The problem class masteries now created is classes require refreshes that we aren’t getting anytime soon. When it comes to end game trials/dungeons all we see are Arcanists, DKs and Sorcs. Might see some Nightblades and Necros here and there, but they have complicated rotations that can rarely be done in real content. Templars and Wardens are collecting dust unless you use them as healers.

Now we got class masteries, but can only use them if we are pure. Doesn’t make sense we do not get access to 1 mastery if we have 2 of our class skill lines equipped. The original classes skill lines are not set up like the new ones (dps, healer & tank lines) so we may require 2 skill lines. For example templar spammable and execute is on two separate skill lines. If we replace restoring light skill line then we lose 2 masteries and no matter what we replace it with its a dps loss with sustain issues. This now forces us to subclass 2 lines which is most likely Harold of the Tome replacing Aedric Spear or Assassination replacing Dawns Wrath, totally killing the identity of the Templar class. At this point we are either pure class or subclassing with either Harold of the Tome (if you need a spammable) or Assassination (if you need passives) if not both.

In my opinion class refreshes need to be a top priority at this point and should have been the priority both prior to subclassing and the Arcanist class being released

Seraphayel

I liked the class when it first launch and it was playing it for Necrom and Gold Road, but now I hate it. The class doesn't fit the universe, it doesn't fit the game and it ruined most other classes / build due to how easy it is to use while being completely busted at the same time.

old_mufasa

By that logic then we need to get rid of the night blade because almost every hybrid build has the assassination tree line.

It doesn't matter what class it is there's always going to be the top skill going for DPS healing or tanking depending on what role you're doing. That's just the nature of the beast because you're never ever going to have perfect balance.

As far as for masteries there to reward pure classes itI would be interesting that you get one mastery if you run two of your primary class but even then that's going to cause more balance issues because you're going to have people running t that one skill line that's a must have for any given role.

mocap

When it comes to trifecta trials, it’s meta-or-gt** for DPS, sad but true. You just take your 'play da way ya want' nonsense elsewhere.

The rest of the content you can easily faceroll with any class.

Fischblut

Arcanist class (and subclassing too, while it's not destroyed by class reworks yet...) is super fun and enjoyable for me, so I would never agree that it ruins the game. I can play my main character as nightblade who has beam and change 3rd subclass line depending on my mood and needs, it is amazing!

The only thing I need is red recolor for Fatecarver, a new roleplay option

AdonisJorge

Arcanist made the game better and more accessible. The class struggles a lot in PvP — I’d say it’s the worst one — so seeing it perform well in PvE feels like justice

ItsNotLiving

You need all three lines because the passives are based on existing class passives for the most part and you could subclass out the line with that passive and not proc the mastery and people would then complain about that. Not to mention nothing is stopping people from Subclassing anyway since the builds would be better than the masteries for most classes.

dubq77

Oh look, another "XYZ. has ruined the game" thread. The only thing "ruining" the game are sweaty score pushing elitists who force the latest "meta" down your throat, as if you can't accomplish content, including trifectas, on any class. I just steer clear of those types of players and guild and have had zero problems clearing with my people.

Zallion

One of my favorite classes.

Its beam in pve outshines its many shortcomings in pvp. Class needs a buff tbh in a lot of ways.

emilyhyoyeon

I've tried making an arcanist character like six times since the class came out and I just can't get into it aesthetic- or lore-wise

Major_Mangle

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Arcanist made the game better and more accessible. The class struggles a lot in PvP — I’d say it’s the worst one — so seeing it perform well in PvE feels like justice

The simplistic approach of arcanist where the entire rotation is pressing 3 buttons (flail + flail + beam) to reach 100k+ dps was a net negative for the game. Most brain dead and boring gameplay in eso history I've ever played.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

AdonisJorge

Major_Mangle wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Arcanist made the game better and more accessible. The class struggles a lot in PvP — I’d say it’s the worst one — so seeing it perform well in PvE feels like justice

The simplistic approach of arcanist where the entire rotation is pressing 3 buttons (flail + flail + beam) to reach 100k+ dps was a net negative for the game. Most brain dead and boring gameplay in eso history I've ever played.

[snip]

No, it has not. Nobody needs to use Arcanist, nobody needs to play one-bar, and nobody needs to be told how they must have fun with their character. If people are enjoying themselves using beam and flail, let them be. No pseudo ‘pro player’ (in a game that doesn’t even have any professional competitive tournaments) needs to tell anyone how to play, people should play the way they want and the way they like.
[edited to remove quote]

CatalinaWineMixer2

Instead of waiting until 2030 and beyond to attempt to balance this Subclassing mess with refreshes most of us probably wont wait for now, they should just remove it. It can not and will not ever be balanced. They never should have done it in the first place. It needs to be removed. Since we are stuck with 1 and a half reworked Classes, they can simply admit they were wrong and alter the DK skill lines back so they are rebalanced again with the other 6 unfinished Classes. And use the Masteries to balance them to the DK. This can be done in a single update. This year. All at one time and not over the course of YEARS. How can they not see the game is dead because of the U46 disaster?

Major_Mangle

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Arcanist made the game better and more accessible. The class struggles a lot in PvP — I’d say it’s the worst one — so seeing it perform well in PvE feels like justice

The simplistic approach of arcanist where the entire rotation is pressing 3 buttons (flail + flail + beam) to reach 100k+ dps was a net negative for the game. Most brain dead and boring gameplay in eso history I've ever played.

[snip]

No, it has not. Nobody needs to use Arcanist, nobody needs to play one-bar, and nobody needs to be told how they must have fun with their character. If people are enjoying themselves using beam and flail, let them be. No pseudo ‘pro player’ (in a game that doesn’t even have any professional competitive tournaments) needs to tell anyone how to play, people should play the way they want and the way they like.

"pLaY tHe WaY yOu WaNt" only works until you want to do endgame content like trifectas or similar content (which is the only relevant content to talk about when it comes to balance). When zos balance content after the latest meta (like arcanist was for the longest time) then you've little realistic choice. I've been there and done that and it's the main reason I started to loath endgame PvE. [snip]
[edited for bashing & to remove quote]

AdonisJorge

Major_Mangle wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Arcanist made the game better and more accessible. The class struggles a lot in PvP — I’d say it’s the worst one — so seeing it perform well in PvE feels like justice

The simplistic approach of arcanist where the entire rotation is pressing 3 buttons (flail + flail + beam) to reach 100k+ dps was a net negative for the game. Most brain dead and boring gameplay in eso history I've ever played.

[snip]

No, it has not. Nobody needs to use Arcanist, nobody needs to play one-bar, and nobody needs to be told how they must have fun with their character. If people are enjoying themselves using beam and flail, let them be. No pseudo ‘pro player’ (in a game that doesn’t even have any professional competitive tournaments) needs to tell anyone how to play, people should play the way they want and the way they like.

"pLaY tHe WaY yOu WaNt" only works until you want to do endgame content like trifectas or similar content (which is the only relevant content to talk about when it comes to balance). When zos balance content after the latest meta (like arcanist was for the longest time) then you've little realistic choice. I've been there and done that and it's the main reason I started to loath endgame PvE. [snip]

It’s sad that the current meta makes you unhappy. I hope you can overcome that someday, because of course only trifecta and ultra endgame content seems to matter for balancing the game… and apparently it’s only possible to do that content with Arcanist.

I also hope you can overcome frustration with other people ‘playing lazy,’ even if it’s not on your character or your PC. Things will get better — I’m sending you positive energy
[edited to remove quote]

Dax_Draconis

Fischblut wrote: »

Arcanist class (and subclassing too, while it's not destroyed by class reworks yet...) is super fun and enjoyable for me, so I would never agree that it ruins the game. I can play my main character as nightblade who has beam and change 3rd subclass line depending on my mood and needs, it is amazing!

The only thing I need is red recolor for Fatecarver, a new roleplay option

After years of PvP "balancing" having pretty much ruined NB for PvE, my subclassed NB with the Arcanist beam is so much fun to play now. I haven't had this much fun with it since before One Tamriel happened.

Sephyr

nb_rich wrote: »

Now we got class masteries, but can only use them if we are pure. Doesn’t make sense we do not get access to 1 mastery if we have 2 of our class skill lines equipped. The original classes skill lines are not set up like the new ones (dps, healer & tank lines) so we may require 2 skill lines.

I posted this in your other thread, but that's the whole intent of Class Masteries. It makes less sense to let Subclassing have those due to the fact that Class Masteries are an investment into your native class. It does nothing to address the problem your post is touching here. In fact, I'd wager they'd make them exponentially worse.

IZZEFlameLash

old_mufasa wrote: »

By that logic then we need to get rid of the night blade because almost every hybrid build has the assassination tree line.

It doesn't matter what class it is there's always going to be the top skill going for DPS healing or tanking depending on what role you're doing. That's just the nature of the beast because you're never ever going to have perfect balance.

As far as for masteries there to reward pure classes itI would be interesting that you get one mastery if you run two of your primary class but even then that's going to cause more balance issues because you're going to have people running t that one skill line that's a must have for any given role.

This exactly. Say, ZOS indeed listen to the OP and nerfs Arcanist. What then? Is the game 'saved'? Or is someone else going to make a thread similar to this because the second best now took the throne.

Major_Mangle wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Arcanist made the game better and more accessible. The class struggles a lot in PvP — I’d say it’s the worst one — so seeing it perform well in PvE feels like justice

The simplistic approach of arcanist where the entire rotation is pressing 3 buttons (flail + flail + beam) to reach 100k+ dps was a net negative for the game. Most brain dead and boring gameplay in eso history I've ever played.

[snip]

No, it has not. Nobody needs to use Arcanist, nobody needs to play one-bar, and nobody needs to be told how they must have fun with their character. If people are enjoying themselves using beam and flail, let them be. No pseudo ‘pro player’ (in a game that doesn’t even have any professional competitive tournaments) needs to tell anyone how to play, people should play the way they want and the way they like.

"pLaY tHe WaY yOu WaNt" only works until you want to do endgame content like trifectas or similar content (which is the only relevant content to talk about when it comes to balance). When zos balance content after the latest meta (like arcanist was for the longest time) then you've little realistic choice. I've been there and done that and it's the main reason I started to loath endgame PvE. [snip]
[edited for bashing & to remove quote]

A lot of that is players doing their usual, optimizing the fun out of the game. It is us the players that forgot how to have fun in a game because we think we commit a grave sin if we are not THE BEST.

Luneca

Dax_Draconis wrote: »

Fischblut wrote: »

Arcanist class (and subclassing too, while it's not destroyed by class reworks yet...) is super fun and enjoyable for me, so I would never agree that it ruins the game. I can play my main character as nightblade who has beam and change 3rd subclass line depending on my mood and needs, it is amazing!

The only thing I need is red recolor for Fatecarver, a new roleplay option

After years of PvP "balancing" having pretty much ruined NB for PvE, my subclassed NB with the Arcanist beam is so much fun to play now. I haven't had this much fun with it since before One Tamriel happened.

It's a shame NB wasn't the first to be reworked, even though it needed to be.

HatchetHaro

I'm quite sure a lot of endgame players agree that Fatecarver is the very cause of the Arcanist meta for the last few years. A Fatecarver build on Arcanist trades very little single-target loss for incredible cleave and range, and the Pragmatic morph also gave Arcanists arguably too much survivability.

Unfortunately, it is a Pandora's Box situation, where any direct nerf to it would cause a lot of issues in the playerbase. Sanity's Edge also came with the release of Arcanists, and that trial along with Lucent Citadel and Ossein Cage were balanced for the overwhelming value that Pragmatic Fatecarver brings.

A "fair and balanced" nerf to Arcanists would result in such a massive damage, playstyle, and accessibility change that no one would like. That's why they're trying to offer similar abilities in the reworked kits now to bring other classes up instead, such as Engulfing Dragonfire on DKs and Claw Fury on Werewolves, neither of which still offers the same range and survivability Pragmatic Fatecarver does.

If it were up to me, and with the luxury of hindsight, I'd have Fatecarver designed on launch to either split its damage among all targets, or deal reduced damage beyond the first target.

Usureki

As somebody who mainly plays PvP as Arcanist main it feels quite bizarre when people are complaining how overpowered Arcanist is. In BGs the so called beam is literally gambling, because ESO server performance is so bad that most of the time if I aim true on my/client side I do literally no damage, I have to aim where my target is going to be to do any damage - or not, the server is very random at deciding whether the beam hits or no. In PvE however, mobs are very static, they are not moving and honestly are very stupid, not reacting to what the players are doing, and I think that is the core of the problem, because against a brainless mass, beam is indeed overpowered.

Therefore I think the best approach to balance Arcanist overperformance in dungeons and trials is to have the enemies there a bit more intelligent and mobile. We are in 2026, I think an enemy should have more complexity than "go to nearest player enemy and hit auto-attack". They should block, roll dodge and move in a coordinated manner a lot more. Then at least the beam needs to be aimed properly other than just be spammed. Having more dinamic behavior would be more exciting for all classes too.

jm42

mocap wrote: »

When it comes to trifecta trials, it’s meta-or-gt** for DPS, sad but true. You just take your 'play da way ya want' nonsense elsewhere.

The rest of the content you can easily faceroll with any class.

yes, but arcanist meta was too dull, lasted for too long, and I am happy that this class is in the trashbin now

beer781993

Arc is bad atm. I mean you can clear everything but Necro, Blade, WW are the real Dps machines this patch.

Subclassing was a very dull experience, I am glad it's over. Playing beam/runeblades on 20 characters was depressing.

Kilthor69

Arcanist did not ruin the game. What made the game ALOT WORSE is subclassing. Worst idea ever. Subclassing is ruining the game.

moderatelyfatman

How to fix the Arcanist without nerfing the damage:
Change Fatecarver so it no longer penetrates but instead generates a 5m cleave on the first target it hits. It then becomes similar to HA lightning staff.
If this is still too powerful, reduce the damage on the cleave while keeping it on the main target.

nb_rich

Kilthor69 wrote: »

Arcanist did not ruin the game. What made the game ALOT WORSE is subclassing. Worst idea ever. Subclassing is ruining the game.

If the Arcanist wasn’t released we probably wouldn’t need subclassing.

Arcanist PvE dps was so overpowered no one used anything but Arcanist. They added subclassing thinking it would balance it out but made it worse cause everyone just added Harold of the Tome to there build. No matter what for PvE dps anyone that is subclassing has either Harold of the Tome or Assassination, if not both.

Also when it comes to subclassing if Harold of the Tome did not exist we would have a lot more variety when it comes to pve dps, Just using Flail, Fatecarver & Inspired Scholarship gives you, AOE damage, healing, damage shields, crit damage, weapon/spell damage, status effect chance/damage, Major Sorcery/Brutality on both bars & penetration. They also made fatecarver direct damage allowing you to use a cp node like reaving blows for additional healing. This is way to much for one skill line.

nb_rich

beer781993 wrote: »

Arc is bad atm. I mean you can clear everything but Necro, Blade, WW are the real Dps machines this patch.

Subclassing was a very dull experience, I am glad it's over. Playing beam/runeblades on 20 characters was depressing.

WW are broken not going to lie. Multiple WW are in trials and almost always in dungeons. Heard they running wild in PvP also and need a patch lol.

NB are just cool for parsimg and PvP. Can’t bring more then one NB into a trial. You can go online and get excited watching people hit 190K on dummies but they are dummies not real comtent. All the newer content you lucky to even be close to a boss for close range melee damage so think about the crazy dps loss in new trials or dungeons. Also aint no wat 10 NBs clearing a trial quicker then having 10 Arcanist dps.

Necros are okay but have a difficult rotation, requires corpburster and multiple necros to create multiple corpses. When you watch videos online its specific set ups majority of trial groups won’t set up for. Its similar to sorc using the class set and having 10 sorcs so that all the class sets kick in together.