PTS Update 47 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities Changes

Joy_Division

I'm not sure the "shuffling power experiment" will work out as intended.

If a good/strong class line has some of its power shuffled to a weak/unpopular line, the result will be two average lines. Each line is competing against 20 other alternatives. We've already ditched class identity with sub-classing. Why would I hang on to a nerfed/shuffled line rather than just replacing it with something stronger?

YandereGirlfriend

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm not sure the "shuffling power experiment" will work out as intended.

If a good/strong class line has some of its power shuffled to a weak/unpopular line, the result will be two average lines. Each line is competing against 20 other alternatives. We've already ditched class identity with sub-classing. Why would I hand onto a nerfed/shuffled line rather than just replacing it with something stronger?

Indeed. Shuffling power only works if there was sufficient power in a class to begin with. Which definitely is not the case currently.

MincMincMinc

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm not sure the "shuffling power experiment" will work out as intended.

If a good/strong class line has some of its power shuffled to a weak/unpopular line, the result will be two average lines. Each line is competing against 20 other alternatives. We've already ditched class identity with sub-classing. Why would I hand onto a nerfed/shuffled line rather than just replacing it with something stronger?

Indeed. Shuffling power only works if there was sufficient power in a class to begin with. Which definitely is not the case currently.

They really have to throw the notion of "classes" out of the window. That entire line of thought is obsolete now. Again why I say we should be pushing for each skill line to be designed on its own to portray a unique standalone playstyle.

BlackLabel

Mag sorc needs to have consistent ways of stacking max mag. A class that relies on shields with no heals needs big shields..
Do not make these dark magic changes as it only nerfs mag sorc more.

Buff frags dmg, increase max mag on deadric summoning, potentially add small heal to ward. /

universal_wrath

Zos should revisit dead/bad skills in the sorcerer arsenal instead of tweaking already good skills.

Storm calling:

1- Overlaod
2- Mage's fury
3- Lightning splash
4- Surge - power surge morph

Deadric summoning:

1- summon winged twlight - tormentor morph

Dark magic:

1- Negate magic - absorbtion field morph
2- Encase
3- Rune prison - rune cage morph
4- Daedric mines - daedric tomb morph

ZhuJiuyin

I compared Crystal Fragments, Proc-Crystal Fragments, Force Pulse, and Relentless Focus.
To avoid the influence of other sets, I chose Ansuul + Tide-Born, and used the weapon Lightning Staves without Enchanting. The skill line chose Dark Magic, Daedric Summoning, and Assassination.
My test method is to use 1Force Pulse→1Crystal Fragments as a cycle, and if Proc-Crystal Fragments and Relentless Focus are available, they are used first.




As you can see, the maximum damage of Relentless Focus (33982) is greater than the 33602 of Proc-Crystal Fragments, and Relentless Focus is easier to use and does not need to rely on randomness.
Not to mention, if the status effect is taken into account, the damage ratio of Relentless Focus will be higher, because Overcharged causes less damage than Diseased. Even if the critical hit rate of Proc-Crystal Fragments+Overcharged is 100%, the total damage is still much lower than Relentless Focus+Diseased

In addition, the damage ratio of Force Pulse is 8.5%+8.1%+7.8%+burning (2.5%)+chill (1.4%)+Concussion (0.4%)=28.7%
And Crystal Fragments+Proc-Crystal Fragments+Overcharged is 38.1%, which is less than 10% higher than Force Pulse, and this is the case when Proc-Crystal Fragments are included.
If we only count the single damage, the maximum damage of Crystal Fragments+Overcharged is 19550+2918=22468
And the damage of Force Pulse is 5823+5756+5792+burning(2062)+chill(2869)+Concussion(1559)=23861
The maximum damage of Force Pulse (although affected by the chance) is still higher than Crystal Fragments, and don't forget that Crystal Fragments has a casting time of 0.8 seconds.

It is obvious that the changes to Blood Magic this time will not help the Dark Magic line, because it lacks stable and efficient spam skills, and Proc-Crystal is very unstable and cannot be guaranteed to be used continuously within 10 seconds. Not to mention the other skills and passives of this line, which are either poor or useless.
Dark Magic is in desperate need of a bigger buff, as the strongest skill in the line currently does even less damage than the common skills, not to mention Crystal has a 0.8 second cast time, and Proc-Crystal is very unstable. Not to mention Suppression Field, Shattering Spines, Rune Cage, Daedric Tomb, etc., which do even less damage and are less useful, and even cost more than similar skills.

Tannus15

So i did some sorc testng on PTS. Forgive the long post.

Firstly, "pure" sorc with crystal frags vs bound armaments

Frags parse


bound arms parse


build. I literally just swapped bound arms and frags.


Bound arms does basically the same damage, but it gets +5k dps from sundered procs. You can't see it, but the frags sundered proc was 800dps.

You can also see the blood magic uptime, the higher max magicka and how little that matters.

Blood magic


There is no reason for this passive to require activation. 10% max resource is nice, but it's hardly super powerful. I don't know why it needs to be conditional.

Secondly dropping dark magic entirely for aedric spear.



I want to note, I didn't slot or use any skills from aedric spear. This is exactly the same build, just trading out dark magic for aedric spear.

Finally, going all in on "pure" mag sorc




This is easily the highest dps I've managed on a straight up mag sorc build. Granted i've done it with a stam spammable, but i'm sure the same numbers would be achiveable with frags as spammable, i just hate the 0.8s cast time.

I'm not going to lie, I feel like this build is the best example of how class balance *should* work with subclassing. Every skill line you take out costs you something.
Arcanist and necromancer are the worst examples.

An Arcanist dps has literally no reason to keep Soldier of Apocrypha or Curative Runeforms. In fact, if they do keep them, they are doing it wrong.

The big problem is that I don't see how this can be fixed. Either sorc should have all their dps passives shoved into one skill line so they can compete with other classes, or arcanist, necro and probably nightblade need their skills and passives dispersered across the class skill lines.

Essentially the design philophosy for the DLC classes is the exact opposite of what they are now suggesting the direction of balance with subclassing should be.

madmufffin

Tannus15 wrote: »

So i did some sorc testng on PTS. Forgive the long post.

Firstly, "pure" sorc with crystal frags vs bound armaments

Frags parse


bound arms parse


build. I literally just swapped bound arms and frags.


Bound arms does basically the same damage, but it gets +5k dps from sundered procs. You can't see it, but the frags sundered proc was 800dps.

You can also see the blood magic uptime, the higher max magicka and how little that matters.

Blood magic


There is no reason for this passive to require activation. 10% max resource is nice, but it's hardly super powerful. I don't know why it needs to be conditional.

Secondly dropping dark magic entirely for aedric spear.



I want to note, I didn't slot or use any skills from aedric spear. This is exactly the same build, just trading out dark magic for aedric spear.

Finally, going all in on "pure" mag sorc




This is easily the highest dps I've managed on a straight up mag sorc build. Granted i've done it with a stam spammable, but i'm sure the same numbers would be achiveable with frags as spammable, i just hate the 0.8s cast time.

I'm not going to lie, I feel like this build is the best example of how class balance *should* work with subclassing. Every skill line you take out costs you something.
Arcanist and necromancer are the worst examples.

An Arcanist dps has literally no reason to keep Soldier of Apocrypha or Curative Runeforms. In fact, if they do keep them, they are doing it wrong.

The big problem is that I don't see how this can be fixed. Either sorc should have all their dps passives shoved into one skill line so they can compete with other classes, or arcanist, necro and probably nightblade need their skills and passives dispersered across the class skill lines.

Essentially the design philophosy for the DLC classes is the exact opposite of what they are now suggesting the direction of balance with subclassing should be.

The problem here is you can drop any of the sorc lines for just assassination and be outright better than anything you can do with sorc while also losing a huge part of sorc's overall functionality. The kit is way too dispersed compared to other dps options to make it viable in subclassing. In an ideal world the sorc design would be the standard where you're incentivized to use any or all of the lines, but that's not where the game is so its power needs to be focused in one or two of the lines. Sorcs strongest damage skill and now resource passive being in a horrible line makes the class viability weaker as a whole, especially since the resource passive has a proc component.

MincMincMinc

Tannus15 wrote: »

The big problem is that I don't see how this can be fixed. Either sorc should have all their dps passives shoved into one skill line so they can compete with other classes, or arcanist, necro and probably nightblade need their skills and passives dispersered across the class skill lines.

Essentially the design philophosy for the DLC classes is the exact opposite of what they are now suggesting the direction of balance with subclassing should be.

Bingo, the some classes were designed to be clear and easy to learn with a clear damage, tank, heals line. Now they would have to be rebalanced such that each line offers the trinity on its own to convey a playstyle. Otherwise there is nothing stopping us from slotting 3x highly efficient damage lines like Animal, Assassin, Aedric spear

As for the more original base classes they need to be altered to have stand alone skill lines that can operate on their own. Stormcalling as a good example having raw responsive damage, healing while aggressive, and tankiness from mobility which pairs well with the responsive damage. Dark magic is the bad example, where it gets damage from frags, but the general playstyle of a frags magsorc normally needs mages wrath, curse, and ward to function. Daedric summoning also falls flat on damage, The damage morphs of pets could be reworked to pair up better or if ward/curse got traded with encase/mines, A skill like encase on petsorc could be used as a temporary pet buff or pet attack skill.

madmufffin

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

The big problem is that I don't see how this can be fixed. Either sorc should have all their dps passives shoved into one skill line so they can compete with other classes, or arcanist, necro and probably nightblade need their skills and passives dispersered across the class skill lines.

Essentially the design philophosy for the DLC classes is the exact opposite of what they are now suggesting the direction of balance with subclassing should be.

Bingo, the some classes were designed to be clear and easy to learn with a clear damage, tank, heals line. Now they would have to be rebalanced such that each line offers the trinity on its own to convey a playstyle. Otherwise there is nothing stopping us from slotting 3x highly efficient damage lines like Animal, Assassin, Aedric spear

As for the more original base classes they need to be altered to have stand alone skill lines that can operate on their own. Stormcalling as a good example having raw responsive damage, healing while aggressive, and tankiness from mobility which pairs well with the responsive damage. Dark magic is the bad example, where it gets damage from frags, but the general playstyle of a frags magsorc normally needs mages wrath, curse, and ward to function. Daedric summoning also falls flat on damage, The damage morphs of pets could be reworked to pair up better or if ward/curse got traded with encase/mines, A skill like encase on petsorc could be used as a temporary pet buff or pet attack skill.

I mean it feels like a uniquely sorc issue at this point tbh. Nightblade and Dragonknight are both pretty much segmented between DPS/Tank/Heal(Utility) and Templar has a very obvious heal line with two strong DPS lines (one of which is kinda tank oriented). Sorc is just a jumble of junk spread across 3 lines that is usable but worse than other classes in every facet.

tomofhyrule

madmufffin wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

The big problem is that I don't see how this can be fixed. Either sorc should have all their dps passives shoved into one skill line so they can compete with other classes, or arcanist, necro and probably nightblade need their skills and passives dispersered across the class skill lines.

Essentially the design philophosy for the DLC classes is the exact opposite of what they are now suggesting the direction of balance with subclassing should be.

Bingo, the some classes were designed to be clear and easy to learn with a clear damage, tank, heals line. Now they would have to be rebalanced such that each line offers the trinity on its own to convey a playstyle. Otherwise there is nothing stopping us from slotting 3x highly efficient damage lines like Animal, Assassin, Aedric spear

As for the more original base classes they need to be altered to have stand alone skill lines that can operate on their own. Stormcalling as a good example having raw responsive damage, healing while aggressive, and tankiness from mobility which pairs well with the responsive damage. Dark magic is the bad example, where it gets damage from frags, but the general playstyle of a frags magsorc normally needs mages wrath, curse, and ward to function. Daedric summoning also falls flat on damage, The damage morphs of pets could be reworked to pair up better or if ward/curse got traded with encase/mines, A skill like encase on petsorc could be used as a temporary pet buff or pet attack skill.

I mean it feels like a uniquely sorc issue at this point tbh. Nightblade and Dragonknight are both pretty much segmented between DPS/Tank/Heal(Utility) and Templar has a very obvious heal line with two strong DPS lines (one of which is kinda tank oriented). Sorc is just a jumble of junk spread across 3 lines that is usable but worse than other classes in every facet.

Uhh... what?

Ardent Flame: DPS ultimate, 3 DPS skills, 1 tank CC that can morph into a DPS gap closer, and 1 DPS skill that morphs into a heal. 3 DPS passives and 1 passive that increases damage and sustain.

Draconic Power: DPS ultimate, 2 tank skills, 1 CC that has a damage and a tank morph, 1 self heal, 1 DPS skill. 3 tank passives and then 1 generic health recovery passive

Earthen Heart: Tank ultimate, 1 DPS skill that has a healing morph, 1 healing skill that has a DPS morph, 1 CC, and 2 group buffs. 2 sustain passives, 1 group buff passive, 1 duration extender passive that affects all three roles.

All of the basegame Classes have necessary skills spread across all three lines. Even if a line has a few things that seem like "this is the DPS line with some other stuff mixed in" like Ardent Flame, that still isn't as clear-cut as something like Herald of the Tome. A DK of any role would have to give up skills they'd use to Subclass. The only basegame Class lines that are obviously designed for one role and one role only are NB's Assassination and Templar's Restoring Light (and you can even make an argument against Restoring Light since Ritual has a DPS morph and there are some self-only buffs in there).

Also does seem interesting that the "tank" line for DK (you know, the one with the DPS ultimate) is outclassed in every way by other tank lines from other Classes, so the tank meta pretty much says "you need DK's healing line (assuming we can call it a healing line)"

madmufffin

tomofhyrule wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

The big problem is that I don't see how this can be fixed. Either sorc should have all their dps passives shoved into one skill line so they can compete with other classes, or arcanist, necro and probably nightblade need their skills and passives dispersered across the class skill lines.

Essentially the design philophosy for the DLC classes is the exact opposite of what they are now suggesting the direction of balance with subclassing should be.

Bingo, the some classes were designed to be clear and easy to learn with a clear damage, tank, heals line. Now they would have to be rebalanced such that each line offers the trinity on its own to convey a playstyle. Otherwise there is nothing stopping us from slotting 3x highly efficient damage lines like Animal, Assassin, Aedric spear

As for the more original base classes they need to be altered to have stand alone skill lines that can operate on their own. Stormcalling as a good example having raw responsive damage, healing while aggressive, and tankiness from mobility which pairs well with the responsive damage. Dark magic is the bad example, where it gets damage from frags, but the general playstyle of a frags magsorc normally needs mages wrath, curse, and ward to function. Daedric summoning also falls flat on damage, The damage morphs of pets could be reworked to pair up better or if ward/curse got traded with encase/mines, A skill like encase on petsorc could be used as a temporary pet buff or pet attack skill.

I mean it feels like a uniquely sorc issue at this point tbh. Nightblade and Dragonknight are both pretty much segmented between DPS/Tank/Heal(Utility) and Templar has a very obvious heal line with two strong DPS lines (one of which is kinda tank oriented). Sorc is just a jumble of junk spread across 3 lines that is usable but worse than other classes in every facet.

Uhh... what?

Ardent Flame: DPS ultimate, 3 DPS skills, 1 tank CC that can morph into a DPS gap closer, and 1 DPS skill that morphs into a heal. 3 DPS passives and 1 passive that increases damage and sustain.

Draconic Power: DPS ultimate, 2 tank skills, 1 CC that has a damage and a tank morph, 1 self heal, 1 DPS skill. 3 tank passives and then 1 generic health recovery passive

Earthen Heart: Tank ultimate, 1 DPS skill that has a healing morph, 1 healing skill that has a DPS morph, 1 CC, and 2 group buffs. 2 sustain passives, 1 group buff passive, 1 duration extender passive that affects all three roles.

All of the basegame Classes have necessary skills spread across all three lines. Even if a line has a few things that seem like "this is the DPS line with some other stuff mixed in" like Ardent Flame, that still isn't as clear-cut as something like Herald of the Tome. A DK of any role would have to give up skills they'd use to Subclass. The only basegame Class lines that are obviously designed for one role and one role only are NB's Assassination and Templar's Restoring Light (and you can even make an argument against Restoring Light since Ritual has a DPS morph and there are some self-only buffs in there).

Also does seem interesting that the "tank" line for DK (you know, the one with the DPS ultimate) is outclassed in every way by other tank lines from other Classes, so the tank meta pretty much says "you need DK's healing line (assuming we can call it a healing line)"

Ardent Flame is all relevant dps skills and passives to the class aside from talons and eruption with only one non-dps skill and the strongest dps ult in the game. Draconic power is all tank skills and passives aside from the ult and one morph of talons. Earthen heart is almost entirely a utility/healing line aside from one morph of cloud and the ult. It's quite segmented, especially by base class standards. Just because the DK tank and utility lines aren't objectively good doesn't change the fact they pretty neatly fit into their niches. Nightblade is pretty perfectly seperated into 3 lines as well, Templar is a bit janky but still functional with one extremely well defined role line, and Sorc is a complete disaster.

BasP

@Tannus15 I tried some pure Sorc parses yesterday in preparation for a similar post, but you beat me to it Since the draft I saved was nearly finished I'm going to post it anyways, but it's now basically just a copy of yours. Oh well - I suppose the fact that the class could use something more is worth repeating.

Dark Magic could really use a bigger buff
I figured I'd throw together a pure pet Sorcerer on the PTS to actually test the new changes myself and ended up doing between 129K and 134K DPS with slightly different skill setups:

134K DPS with Bound Armaments and Crystal Weapon

131K DPS with Bound Armaments (I'm really bad at weaving with channeled skills such as Rapid Strikes though)

129K DPS with Bound Armaments and Crystal Fragments

129K DPS with Crystal Fragments

Just changing Dark Magic to Aedric Spear - without actively using any Aedric Spear abilities - increased my DPS to 143K though. I did slot Everlasting Sweep instead of Flawless Dawnbreaker on the front bar for the passives, but the rest of the skills were exactly the same as I used for the aforementioned 131K DPS parse with Bound Armaments.

Possible Dark Magic buff
Since Direct Damage makes up a large part of a standard Sorcerer's DPS, I still think adding a 6% Direct Damage buff to Exploitation would be nice. More Critical Chance or something could be nice too though since there aren't a lot of skill lines that grant Crit Chance (just Assassination I think?).

The extra Max Stamina or Magicka buff that Blood Magic gives on the PTS could then be shuffled into Daedric Summoning again, since that skill line is far from overpowered at the moment.

Minor complaint about the current Blood Magic buff
In one of the parses above with Crystal Fragments, the skill procced for the first time after around 18 seconds into the parse so that's when I first cast it and got the Max Stamina buff. I had bad luck in that parse, but still... I really wish the current buff didn't depend on casting a Dark Magic skill in the first place (especially since you also have to cast it at full Health).

Tannus15

@BasP it's nice to see my data independently corroborated.

Additional parse to highlight the issue with arcanist.

I swapped dark magic with herald of the tome, a skill line with good passives and skills




this is another big jump in dps compared to aedric spear which only has good passives. (if you're not using jabs)

FoJul

Swallow soul buff when?

ArgoCye

Grim Focus - if this goes live then there's no reason to use this skill. A spammable will give you more damage and you can get major savagery from many, many other sources. Just because you don't like how it's being used by non-NBs, you're ruining a unique, class-defining skill. There are plenty of ways to change this to achieve your ends without killing it. DO BETTER

YandereGirlfriend

ArgoCye wrote: »

Grim Focus - if this goes live then there's no reason to use this skill. A spammable will give you more damage and you can get major savagery from many, many other sources. Just because you don't like how it's being used by non-NBs, you're ruining a unique, class-defining skill. There are plenty of ways to change this to achieve your ends without killing it. DO BETTER

Smashing X to doubt this claim. The Bowproc is tuned like an ultimate not a spammable.

universal_wrath

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Grim Focus - if this goes live then there's no reason to use this skill. A spammable will give you more damage and you can get major savagery from many, many other sources. Just because you don't like how it's being used by non-NBs, you're ruining a unique, class-defining skill. There are plenty of ways to change this to achieve your ends without killing it. DO BETTER

Smashing X to doubt this claim. The Bowproc is tuned like an ultimate not a spammable.

X

BasP

Since Grim Focus was mentioned, I thought I'd quickly try a parse with Assassination instead of Dark Magic on my aforementioned pet Sorc setup as well.

Lo and behold, Merciless Resolve hit a lot harder than Crystal Fragments did in my parses.



Truth be told, Grim Focus isn't at the top of my list of skills that need buffs.

FoJul

BasP wrote: »

Since Grim Focus was mentioned, I thought I'd quickly try a parse with Assassination instead of Dark Magic on my aforementioned pet Sorc setup as well.

Lo and behold, Merciless Resolve hit a lot harder than Crystal Fragments did in my parses.



Truth be told, Grim Focus isn't at the top of my list of skills that need buffs.

swallow soul on that list?

CheenTheCat

BasP wrote: »

Since Grim Focus was mentioned, I thought I'd quickly try a parse with Assassination instead of Dark Magic on my aforementioned pet Sorc setup as well.

Lo and behold, Merciless Resolve hit a lot harder than Crystal Fragments did in my parses.



Truth be told, Grim Focus isn't at the top of my list of skills that need buffs.

Agreed, but can we please move the loss in w/s damage to Shadow? Pure NBs have never been quite good enough in PvE, why harm them further?

softyoung

I think not only this patch, but also future ones, will be hard for people to accept.
Allowing just one skill line to be replaced would have been better in many ways — in fact, it even feels more fitting to call it a "subclass" that way.
Honestly, if the patch had worked that way, I wouldn’t have been too bothered, even if it meant the overall power level of the meta went down. I’d probably still think it was a bit silly, but not something to be upset about.

BasP

FoJul wrote: »

swallow soul on that list?

Definitely. I also wouldn't mind it if, for example, the Soul Siphoner passive would be changed into something like this: "Increases your healing done by 3% and damage done by X% for each Siphoning ability slotted."

CheenTheCat wrote: »

Agreed, but can we please move the loss in w/s damage to Shadow? Pure NBs have never been quite good enough in PvE, why harm them further?

And that would indeed be a nice way to buff the underwhelming Shadow skill line.

xencthlu

Again requesting a morph of Shadow Cloak retain the passive Major Prophecy/Savagery buff. Having a both-bar buff was one of the few reasons to multiclass to Shadow, and I want to keep the line. I want to have a single good reason to keep the line.

RlyDontKnow

Flame Skull: Resolved the issue where corpses generated from this ability and its morphs could not be replaced, causing you to quickly reach the summon limit and be unable to activate other summon abilities.

Probably been reported, but this doesn't seem to be resolved at all.
The problem is very easy to reproduce with this simple rotation:
pre: cast 2 necro skills to activate venom skull
repeate: blighted blastbones, detonating siphon, venom skull, detonating siphon
You'll quickly get to the point where no corpse is generated because you hit the pet limit even though you keep consuming those corpses.
I'd expect corpses that were consumed by siphon to disappear as soon as that siphon ends (i.e. in the case of this rotation: as soon as siphon is cast the next time), but this is clearly not happening.

Tannus15

ArgoCye wrote: »

Grim Focus - if this goes live then there's no reason to use this skill. A spammable will give you more damage and you can get major savagery from many, many other sources. Just because you don't like how it's being used by non-NBs, you're ruining a unique, class-defining skill. There are plenty of ways to change this to achieve your ends without killing it. DO BETTER

average damage of merciless resolve in above parse : 103,744
average damage of surprise attack in above parse : 55,886

on average, it's almost twice as much damage as one of the strongest spammables in the game.
and it gives you major sav / proph.

Umm, what are you talking about?

Nag1saKaw0ru

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Grim Focus - if this goes live then there's no reason to use this skill. A spammable will give you more damage and you can get major savagery from many, many other sources. Just because you don't like how it's being used by non-NBs, you're ruining a unique, class-defining skill. There are plenty of ways to change this to achieve your ends without killing it. DO BETTER

Smashing X to doubt this claim. The Bowproc is tuned like an ultimate not a spammable.

If you hate subclassed characters using Grim Focus it doesn't mean pure NBs have to be nerfed. It's about Weapon freaking Damage. Which hurts non-"endgame" players way more than the 1% running trials.

YandereGirlfriend

Nag1saKaw0ru wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Grim Focus - if this goes live then there's no reason to use this skill. A spammable will give you more damage and you can get major savagery from many, many other sources. Just because you don't like how it's being used by non-NBs, you're ruining a unique, class-defining skill. There are plenty of ways to change this to achieve your ends without killing it. DO BETTER

Smashing X to doubt this claim. The Bowproc is tuned like an ultimate not a spammable.

If you hate subclassed characters using Grim Focus it doesn't mean pure NBs have to be nerfed. It's about Weapon freaking Damage. Which hurts non-"endgame" players way more than the 1% running trials.

No, it was a crazy and undeserved giga-buff when it happened. Way, way before subclassing was a thing. It is good that it is going away.

The "power" just needs to be reinvested into Shadow so that pure NBs aren't penalized (as Shadow is a dogwater tree and needs all the help that it can get).

CheenTheCat

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Nag1saKaw0ru wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

Grim Focus - if this goes live then there's no reason to use this skill. A spammable will give you more damage and you can get major savagery from many, many other sources. Just because you don't like how it's being used by non-NBs, you're ruining a unique, class-defining skill. There are plenty of ways to change this to achieve your ends without killing it. DO BETTER

Smashing X to doubt this claim. The Bowproc is tuned like an ultimate not a spammable.

If you hate subclassed characters using Grim Focus it doesn't mean pure NBs have to be nerfed. It's about Weapon freaking Damage. Which hurts non-"endgame" players way more than the 1% running trials.

No, it was a crazy and undeserved giga-buff when it happened. Way, way before subclassing was a thing. It is good that it is going away.

The "power" just needs to be reinvested into Shadow so that pure NBs aren't penalized (as Shadow is a dogwater tree and needs all the help that it can get).

Yes, say it louder for the people in the back!

I really hope ZOS won't turn a blind eye to this, after they promised to focus more on keeping pure classes viable :c

ZhuJiuyin

A simple change to keep pure class NB and Sorc competitive and still suitable for subclassing.

1. Move the wd lost by Grim Focus to Shadowy Disguise in Shadow. Since Shadowy Disguise lost Major Prophecy and Major Savagery in U47, gaining some wd should be a reasonable compensation. Just set the effect to: "When Shadowy Disguise begins or ends, increase your damage done to monsters by 10%, and increase 300 wd for 10 seconds"

2. Exploitation, in order to avoid being too similar to Hemorrhage, but still be able to compete with it, you can add "increase direct damage caused by 6%". 6% direct damage is not a particularly high buff, although it may enhance Fatecarver, but considering that many people have already obtained 5% class damage from Solar Barrage, it is still reasonable to let Exploitation provide 6% direct damage.

3. Add a 20-second dot to Manifestation of Terror and Shattering Spines after they hit the target, so that they can play a better role in PVE. There are many ways to remove negative effects in PVP now, so it will not have a big impact on PVP.

4. Blood Magic has been changed from the maximum resource of U47 to increase critical damage and critical treatment by 8%.

5. The damage caused by Veil of Blades and Suppression Field has been increased, and the former will provide Major Force to the team after enabling synergy, and the latter will cause Major Brittle to the damaged target. This will allow both to compete with other damage-type ultimate skills.