PTS Update 47 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities Changes

Radiate77 · July 21

There is nothing of note this PTS cycle…

How do you expect people to harbor any interest in this game when since U35 there have been no changes to introduce healthy playstyles into our game?

Dead skills remain dead, and dead skill lines are just replaced with Subclassing. Nothing has been done to improve this, I guess I’ll see you guys in 3 months? Maybe?

YandereGirlfriend · July 21

Please revert the Dark Cloak nerfs!

Have it scale off of combined Armor rating as well so that PvE tanks are best able to leverage it.

This current kludge of move/no move and block/no block is simply NOT IT.

Yudo · July 21

Dark magic line getting up to 10% resources is actually very nice both for the line and pure sorcs.
Also happy with the 10% extra block mitigation on aegis.

MincMincMinc · July 21

Yudo wrote: »

Dark magic line getting up to 10% resources is actually very nice both for the line and pure sorcs.
Also happy with the 10% extra block mitigation on aegis.

If you think pure sorcs are still a thing, sure but they already had that before. With wards being pathetic across the game, and sustain being given out like candy there is almost no point to max stat builds for anyone.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 21

Afterip wrote: »

There are 3 class cleancing skills:

Extended Ritual
Cost: 4860 Magicka
Target: Area
Duration: 30 seconds
Radius: 12 meters
Effect
Exalt in the sacred light of the Aedra, cleansing up to 5 harmful effects from yourself immediately and healing you and nearby allies for 844 Health every 2 seconds for 30 seconds. Allies in the area can activate the Purify synergy, cleansing all harmful effects from themselves and healing for 1912 Health.

Betty Netch
Target: Self
Duration: 22 seconds
Effect
Call a betty netch to your side, which grants you Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20% for 22 seconds. Every 5 seconds, the netch removes 1 negative effect from you. If no negative effects are removed you instead increase your damage done by 5% for 5 seconds.

Hexproof
Cost: 1670 Health
Target: Self
Effect
Embrace the power of death, removing up to 4 negative effects from yourself. While slotted, the cost of all your abilities are reduced by 3%.

One of them is the BESt, because cleanse 5 harmfull effects,has grerat aoe heal and buffed by healing passives, only one minus - its expencive. Second one has zero cost, and 2 good buffs, but his cleance not so strong,
And third, worst cleance skill, dispels only 4 and by healths cost. So i asking dear @ZOS team, could you pleas add some attention on Hexproof skill, bcs right now its wrost cleanse class skill in the game. There is no one want to pick this if you could pick templar's or warden's cleanse.

Hold up, Hexproof is easily the best self purge in the game.

The health cost means nothing when you're purging off DoTs that are dealing damage to you - the cost is essentially taking a tick of a couple DoTs in exchange for getting rid of them. Hexproof is insanely strong.

gamergirldk · July 21

Yudo wrote: »
Dark magic line getting up to 10% resources is actually very nice both for the line and pure sorcs.
Also happy with the 10% extra block mitigation on aegis.

This is not the answer... making skill line A weaker to buff B. I would really like to know, how many players actually stick with the Pure class build setup.

LukosCreyden · July 21

Dark Magic giving 10% more resources "but only sometimes" is kinda weak.

MincMincMinc · July 21

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Dark Magic giving 10% more resources "but only sometimes" is kinda weak.

Right, you can get the boost to your shields when you dont need it. Damage wise it ends up equating to a ~220wd passive if you have 30k mag

MashmalloMan · July 21

MincMincMinc wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Dark Magic giving 10% more resources "but only sometimes" is kinda weak.

Right, you can get the boost to your shields when you dont need it. Damage wise it ends up equating to a ~220wd passive if you have 30k mag

I have no idea why they forced it on a 10s timer, at 20s it would make much more sense.. and at that point, why not just attach it to Exploitation which already works on a 20s timer any time you cast any Dark Magic skill, same as Blood Magic.

NB gives 10% crit damage with their Minor Savagery, but for some reason ZOS is hesitant to give other classes the same treatment.

Frankly, I had originally hoped before U46 that they would move the Class Minor Group buffs to the base class choice to add further incentive and justify buffing those underutilized lines more, but they couldn't be bothered.

YandereGirlfriend · July 21

Obligatory Necromancer-awareness post to once again ask that Corpse Consumption not be treated the same as the other mundane class ult-gen passives.

We see special treatment given to Catalyst, and Corpse Consumption, with its own mini-game mechanic, is much more akin to Catalyst than it is to the other "Cast a skill, get X" class passives.

Remember that it was also already randomly nerfed in U46 for reasons that continue to escape me.

MashmalloMan · July 21

Tooltip for Bound Aegis still states it gives Major and Minor Resolve instead of Minor Resolve and Protection.

This is just the tooltip, actual skill does indeed give Minor Resolve and Protection, no Major Resolve.

BasP · July 21

With regard to this developer comment: "... but we’re using this as an experiment to see if this sort of shuffling of power is seen as a good thing or not in the brave new subclassing world. Definitely give us your feedback on this."

I think shuffling power around within a class can be a good thing. If one skill line of a class is clearly overperforming compared to others, I wouldn’t mind seeing some of that power moved into a weaker line. That kind of redistribution could help promote build diversity, which is a win in my book.

The Sorcerer, however, doesn't really have any skill line that's overperforming (in PvE at least). So in this case I personally think that just buffing Dark Magic, instead of shuffling power from Daedric Summoning into Dark Magic, might have been a better approach.

I would've also greatly preferred it if getting the extra Magicka or Stamina wouldn't depend on having to cast a Dark Magic ability when at full Health. In its current state, I imagine that the uptime of the buff over the course of a longer fight won't be the best. The new buff could've been added to Exploitation instead in my opinion (similar to how the Nightblade's Hemorrhage passive always gives the player 10% Critical Damage).

On a related note, now that the Assassination skill line has lost the Weapon/Spell Damage bonus from Grim Focus, maybe that power could be shuffled into another Nightblade line? The Shadow line, for example, already has a few damaging morphs and the Born From Shadow mechanic - it feels like a natural candidate for some kind of damage increasing passive. At the moment it doesn’t really see much use in subclassed DPS builds, which is a bit of a shame, but that could change if it got a decent buff.

Freelancer_ESO · July 21

Blood Magic Change Feedback

I like the idea of moving more power towards the Blood Magic line but, I'm not a huge fan of the current implementation.

For me it hits the same issue that Hircine's Rage does where any little bit of damage can make you not get the buff you want. Yeah, when I walk around Overland I can generally keep the buff up but, once I go into a Public Dungeon or something a bit harder I can end up losing the buff because I end up below 100%.

If you try to lean heavily into the Max Magicka you might be using Mage's Guild or Siphoning abilities that will consume your health and thus make it so the Max Magicka buff doesn't proc. (Granted, you probably shouldn't lean heavily into Max Magicka/Max Stamina because Weapon/Spell Damage is better at both dealing damage and healing)

Vampire players can also end up being under 100% health and failing to proc.

One of the potentially fun Max Magicka slanted sets is Trinimac's Valor but, Daedric Refugee is a series of wards that create shields rather than casting a damage shield so it doesn't count as casting a damage shield so it can't proc it.

Shalidor's Curse which also scales off of Max Magicka doesn't proc unless the player has under 50% health

MashmalloMan · July 21

Here is a basic test with charged + cp + destro staff to test the status effect chance against Relentless Focus, as well as compare the damage ratios with their status effects.

For those not aware; on live, BA has a 3% status effect chance, on PTS it appears to be 15% (x5), so with +395%, the new value should be 74.25%. My test got 75.6%, so I think my theory is correct. Why it was initially treated as 3% (single target + dot) despite being a single target direct damage skill (10%) is beyond my understanding, but moving on..

This is without many things likes sets/passives to reduce variables, so focus on the ratio between Bound Armaments and Relentless Focus and their respective status effects.

BA is 24.4%, RF is 28.7% - RF had 1 less cast by mistake than BA and deals 21% more damage, but BA got better crit RNG, so they're about 20% apart regardless which was to be expected.
BA + Sundered = 32.2%
RF + Diseased = 30.4%
Due to the way I did the rotation and the nature of status effects, RF did not have as much uptime from Minor Breach (Sundered) or the +100 w/s damage it gives, so the 32% vs 30% above is close enough to be considered relatively equal.

TLDR: BA and RF are so close in damage that your build should determine which comes out ahead instead of BA just being inferior 100% of the time. This solves the damage gap they had fortunately, but doesn't solve everything else RF does better:

Costs 270 less.
Stacks up to 10 instead of 8.
Stack duration is infinite instead of 10s.
Burst heals in melee range.
Assassination skills and passives are just infinitely better than Daedric Summoning.
Deals damage in 1 hit instead of 4 over 1.2s, making it harder to dodge.

Relentless Focus should be the same cost, not cheaper. It should stack up to 8, not 10.

Bound Armaments stack duration should be infinite and provide some sort of auxillary effect to compete with the burst heal. For example, why not give this ability Minor Force since you randomly removed it from the entire class kit after the past few weeks?

Also, I'm not complaining about the damage gap that this has mostly solved, but why is Bound Armaments treated as a single target dot for status effect chance (3%) when it scales as direct + single target for damage, it should have a base chance of 10%, not 3%. You've done this exact same thing with Rapid Strikes with 0 clarification as to if this is a bug or a balancing choice. The fact that it starts at 3% and you multiplied it by 5x looks impressive, but it puts it at 15% instead of the 50% it should have...

50% is overkill, but pick a lane and stick with it, this makes your game very confusing for people who aren't willing to test every little thing. I had no idea BA on live only had 3% till today, further cementing how bad it is in comparison to Grim Focus. Maybe fix the problem to put it at 10%, then give it 3x as a unique effect putting the total to 30%. This would allow non status effect builds to still get something out of it, while guarantee it for builds that fully go all into status effect cahnce.

In comparison to something like Jabs which you buffed in U46 to have a higher status effect chance too.. it started at 5% for aoe + direct, and is now at 15%, so also 3x like my suggestion. BA having the same 15% as Jabs, despite only being usuable every 4s, requiring a minigame, and only being single target, makes absolutely no sense at all. If it hit 30%, double that of Jabs, the dynamic between them would make much more sense.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · July 21

Not sure if someone already mentioned it in this thread, but Dark Deal only lasts 10 seconds while Dark Conversion lasts 20 seconds. They should be the same.

They should also heal for the same amount.

MashmalloMan · July 21

Can we do this instead?

Assuming pure Sorc's even exist anymore with subclassing, why are we making Hardened Ward Sorc's gambling on their most important defensive tool when they need it most at low health? Without a defensive hot or purge, what are the odds that a Sorc meets 3 conditions of requiring full hp, casting a Dark Magic skill, and having that still be active by the time they need it 10s later?
NB's Assassination line gives Minor Savagery and 10% crit damage in 1 passive.
DK's Earthen Heart line gives Minor Brutality and 3 ult gen every 6s in 1 passive.
When we initially read the teaser, no one was complaining it would of been overpowered so why are we adding conditions to a necessary buff in the line as if it would of been? What exactly does this solve other than being unfun to engage with?
While Dark Magic and Daedric Summoning needed improvements, no one thought you would shift the power from a weak line to another weak line. Why can't we just improve both at the same time? Why are we knocking 1 down to prop the other up?

I appreciate the passive power of Bound Armor being hybridized and shifted into a passive which keeps the overall power budget of Sorcerer the same, while opening up opportunities for more diverse builds, in theory this was a great balancing decision...

However, shifting it from Daedric Summoning to Dark Magic is a mistake that further seperates Sorc's lines, forcing an identity crisis by either forcing all 3 lines or 1 where you avoid the idea entirely.

Surge asks the player to crit, so you need to take Dark Magic and Daedric Summoning for the Major/MInor Prophecy buffs. Hardened Ward asks the player to stack mag, so you need to take Dark Magic now, and Storm Calling so all your class skills actually provide something for being slotted.

My suggestion in this post is to fix the issue the new change caused, but in the future, I hope you find a way to give Dark Magic something more unique, then shift this same Max Magicka/Stamina power BACK to Daedric Summoning where it belongs.

MashmalloMan · July 21

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Not sure if someone already mentioned it in this thread, but Dark Deal only lasts 10 seconds while Dark Conversion lasts 20 seconds. They should be the same.

They should also heal for the same amount.

That's by the origianl design, the 10s vs 20s thing was fairly balanced when it also gave Minor Force, but for seemingly no reason at all it's been removed from the class entirely so I'm not sure the morphs are all that close anymore.

From a recovery perspective:

DD gives 3600 + 2400 over 10s or 240/s
DE gives 4500 + 3600 over 20s or 360/2s, average of 180/s

Assuming you use them when they expire:

DD = 6000/10s = 600/s = 1200 recovery
DE = 8100/20s = 405/s = 810 recovery

Assuming you use them every 10s:

DD = 6000 total, 600/s, worth 1200 recovery.
DE = 6300 total, 630/s, worth 1260 recovery.

Assuming you spam them every 1s:

DD = 3600 + 240 = 3840
DE = 4500

DE is mostly ahead, but costs 3200 Stamina vs DD's 2700 Magicka. Normally Stamina skills cost -15% less considering they pull from your core combat resource pool, so it's definitely something to consider because DE is much riskier to spam, but rewards more upfront and less over the 20s.

DD by comparison is 15% less than DE, as if it's a Stamina skill, making it much easier to spam consistently with lower risk. It also allows the player to recover Stamina through core combat abilities like block/sprint, where as DE is just more generic Magicka Recovery.

The 20s buff to Minor Berserk just makes it easier to manage, a quality of life change because historically 10s buff management is extremely annoying to deal with on a utility skill. It doesn't mean the resources need to match that length, it just means we no longer have to spam it every 10s to keep it up even when we don't actually need the sustain.

All this to say, I don't want them to be the same at 20s personally, I think the idea of Dark Deal being shorter for quicker recovery, less bursty, and more reliable makes the morph decisions unique. I find Rune Focus and Betty morphs quite boring and uninspired.. however, the fact that Minor Force was removed is the biggest oversight here. Why on earth was it not placed back on to the ability?

They should do one of the following:

Add back Minor Force for 20s to DD.
Buff up DD's resource/heal over 10s to be higher than DE, not equal.
Add a 10s hot to DD, eg. 6000 over 10s or 600/s.
Boringly copy/paste mechanics from DE to DD, 20s, higher value, etc, then add Minor Force to the base skill and all morphs.

If they don't add Minor Force back to DD, it has to move to another damage skill in the kit like Mage's Fury or Bound Armaments for slotting. Frankly it kinda sucked on DD and not every build could use it, so I'd prefer it on a damage skill, but deleting it entirely is really frustrating. 1 step forward, 2 steps back, all the while pretending like they've listened to feedback and reverted a bad change to Lightning Form.

Tannus15 · July 21

instead of direct nerfs, moving power from one skill line to another is a fantastic idea and is definitely how sub classing should be balanced. in fact i'd go so far as to say putting buffs on "weak" skill lines like dark magic is a great way to bring up the power of "pure" classes to match the power available with subclassing.

I've been pushing for the master assassin crit flanking bonus to be moved to shadow, specifically dark veil.

all the skill "duration" increase passives should just be removed and the skills duration increased OR they should be changed to something more beneficial overall like dot duration increased.

YandereGirlfriend · July 21

Once again requesting that some form of compensation be given to Barrier. Because right now both morphs are dogwater on the PTS.

Reviving Barrier, a morph forgotten about for ages, has a crazily low-tuned HOT component that is somehow weaker than basic yellow Vigor. Yet it comes from a 250 cost ultimate ability. That doesn't make ANY sense.

And then Replenishing Barrier has basically lost its reason for existing entirely.

You should:

1. Double (at least) the strength of the HOT component of Reviving Vigor and/or extend it to 30 seconds to match the duration of the shield itself.

2. Toss some sort of bone to Replenishing because increasing the Mag-return on the PTS is NOT it. Consider increasing the shield magnitude scaling so that the shield itself is stronger. So it costs more, yes, but at least that added cost is paying for something of actual value. You just increased the cost by ~25% so why not make the shield 25% stronger and refund maybe 1 ult per player.

And then even though it's not in the patch notes:

BUFF STURDY HORN!

You have the metrics for its use and I would be legitimately surprised if this morph has been used by anyone, on any server, in the last month. That should tell you something.

PvP cries out for more sources of Crit Resistance (also, please add a Mundus, either the Warrior or Apprentice after you hybridize the other, thank you) and here we have an obvious source that already exists in the game. Just make it last 30 seconds to match the Mag and Stam pool increase. Super easy slam-dunk fix.

Moonspawn · July 21

Why not just keep the 8% max magicka on Bound Aegis?

Tannus15 · July 21

Moonspawn wrote: »

Why not just keep the 8% max magicka on Bound Aegis?

they are trying to move away from passive buffs from backbar'ing skills.

basically relentless focus needed a nerf and they decided that it should be a philosophy and if nightblades are getting a nerf then sorc also needs a nerf.

MashmalloMan · July 21

Tannus15 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Why not just keep the 8% max magicka on Bound Aegis?

they are trying to move away from passive buffs from backbar'ing skills.

basically relentless focus needed a nerf and they decided that it should be a philosophy and if nightblades are getting a nerf then sorc also needs a nerf.

Positives:

Added power to Dark Magic which desperately needed it.
Shifted power from a common skill into a passive, buffing the overall class kit/design, but still keeping the total power budget the same.
Hyhbridized the effect to be based on highest max resource, meaning you can now take Aegis or Armaments and still get the effect you want... or ignore them completely. Free skill slot which is necessary now that you need Resolving Vigor without Hardened Ward's burst heal.

Negatives:

Surge asks the player to crit from Storm Calling, then forces you to take Dark Magic for Minor Prophecy, and Daedric Summoning for Major Prophecy.
Ward asks the player to stack Mag from Daedric Summoning, then forces you to take Dark Magic for Max Mag, and Storm Calling for w/s damage per slotted.
Spreading out necessary passives and skills among multiple skill lines forces pure classing to make skills proficient, since most classes don't do this, Sorc is the odd man out meaning they'll just ignore those core class concepts entirely for more role specific lines that have alternatives. Eg. Why stack max mag and crit chance from Dark Magic/Daedric Summoning when you could take Assassination/Restoring Light for the same tools with much more versatility.
Dark Magic needed help, but not at the expense of Daedric Summoning which also needs help. Daedric Summoning should of kept the Max Mag/Stam somehow, while improving Dark Magic in a completely different way.

So yeah.. Very unfortunate, on one hand it was a good idea, on the other hand it was poorly executed. Some how along the way Sorc lost Minor Force while everything else is pretty much neutral. 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

randconfig · July 22

Our original goal of limiting passive Crux generation remains, as we’ve seen the significant power gains and simplification of an already simple gameplay experience from having too much of it.

I continue to agree with the developer comment:
The Arcanist meta build is far too simple (two buffs and banner for full passive crux generation while using only beam) and passive crux generation needs nerfed.

But does this change incentivize Arcanists to use a more complex playstyle? Let's consider the two scenarios:

I'm an Arcanist using the meta simple rotation, where I first generate full crux passively using Inspired Scholarship, Cruxweaver's Armor, and Banner buffs, and then spam beam.
I'm an Arcanist using a non-meta complex rotation with subclassing, where I swap Herald of the Tome for the Grave Lord skill line. Then I use Flamming Skull spammable to generate corpses, use Rune of Uncanny Adoration to charm enemies and lure them to the corpses, and finally spam Detonating Siphon to explode the corpses on the enemies.

In scenario 1, this change will make it so that I need to cast a single crux generating ability in-between beam casts, and I'll drop the banner in exchange for two slots and resource sustain. Still a simple rotation, now better sustain, my beam damage remains untouched, and if I use the one free slot for another ability that grants a passive while slotted, my DPS may even increase. Thus, I am not incentivized to use a more complex rotation.

In scenario 2, despite using more active abilities/a complex rotation, this change will mean I lose access to my class passive Hideous Clarity, significantly hurting my sustain, and I'll no longer be incentivized to slot a crux consumption ability, since at most I could generate one crux, so I also lose access to the Implacable Outcome class passive. Thus, I am incentivized to use the simple rotation meta build from scenario 1, or to start over with a new class entirely, as I'm actually being punished for using a complex rotation and for engaging with subclassing/weapon/world abilities as an Arcanist.

MashmalloMan · July 22

Tannus15 wrote: »

instead of direct nerfs, moving power from one skill line to another is a fantastic idea and is definitely how sub classing should be balanced. in fact i'd go so far as to say putting buffs on "weak" skill lines like dark magic is a great way to bring up the power of "pure" classes to match the power available with subclassing.

I've been pushing for the master assassin crit flanking bonus to be moved to shadow, specifically dark veil.

all the skill "duration" increase passives should just be removed and the skills duration increased OR they should be changed to something more beneficial overall like dot duration increased.

I don't really agree HOW they did it for Sorc, but the general direction if applied to all classes could definitely help with the subclass vs pure class issue, but it kinda needs to be done relatively at the same time or you just end up leaving 1 class behind in this weird state where they can't engage with subclassing properly.

In NB's case this patch:

Flanking passive is fine where it is imo, but should require a NB skill to be slotted the same way Necro requires one for their 20% below 33% HP.
The lost 300-400 w/s damage should be moved to Shadow and Siphoning.
- Eg. Shadow - Shadow Barrier = Provides Major Resolve and +200 w/s damage for 12s or figure out something completely new for Dark Veil since all these +2s duration passives should be reworked anyway.
- Eg. Siphoning - Soul Siphoner = Increases healing and damage done by 2% instead of just healing done by 3% per slotted.

BlackLabel · July 22

Once again slowly gutting mag sorc by trying to “improve” it. Mag sorcs rely on shields and max mag to survive….you took away the heal, now you take away the max mag!! pure mag sorc regardless is bottom tier in PvP, so don’t force us to play pure mag sorc just if we wan to have non lackluster shields.

Daedric summoning skill line was already lacking and you nerfed it to make the other lacking sorc skill line stronger, but in a weird conditional way.

What sorc needs is a buff to crystal frags, a small heal added back to hardened ward, max mag passives in Daedric summoning. Amd buffed passives in dark magic line.

It’s not that hard to understand that Dark magic is a dead skill line because merciless is stronger than frags and the passives are slightly better. Just bring it up to par with assasination then!

ZhuJiuyin · July 22

Players have long said that having Blood Magic provide max resources is not feasible, because it would weaken Daedric Summoning and not make Dark Magic attractive enough.
Previously, Sorc could get 13% of max resources permanently (8% from Bound Armaments/Bound Aegis + 5% from Expert Summoner) through a single skill line (Daedric Summoning),
but now you have to use two skill lines (Daedric Summoning + Dark Magic) to get 15% of max resources (5% from Expert Summoner + 10% from new Blood Magic, and it only lasts for 10 seconds)
This is completely unfavorable for Sorc subclassing, and weakens the rationale of using Daedric Summoning because it loses 8% of max resources (about 200wd), and it doesn't make Dark Magic more attractive because the other skills and passives in the line are still poor.

And the maximum resource is now very unattractive, because in U47, Bahsei and Coral were changed to reach the maximum value at 50% resource, because if you have too many maximum resources, it may make it difficult for you to control the resources below 50%. Unless the damage calculation method is changed, the damage based on the maximum resource is not so worth investing now.

In addition, on the first day of the release of "Upcoming U47 PTS changes, based on feedback", I raised feedback and asked "Dark Exchange will re-grant Minor Force?", and this week's patch just confirmed my concerns. Minor Force was removed without any compensation.

The changes in v11.1.3 did not make Sorc better, and it can even be said to be another level of nerf.

CheenTheCat · July 22

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

instead of direct nerfs, moving power from one skill line to another is a fantastic idea and is definitely how sub classing should be balanced. in fact i'd go so far as to say putting buffs on "weak" skill lines like dark magic is a great way to bring up the power of "pure" classes to match the power available with subclassing.

I've been pushing for the master assassin crit flanking bonus to be moved to shadow, specifically dark veil.

all the skill "duration" increase passives should just be removed and the skills duration increased OR they should be changed to something more beneficial overall like dot duration increased.

I don't really agree HOW they did it for Sorc, but the general direction if applied to all classes could definitely help with the subclass vs pure class issue, but it kinda needs to be done relatively at the same time or you just end up leaving 1 class behind in this weird state where they can't engage with subclassing properly.

In NB's case this patch:
Flanking passive is fine where it is imo, but should require a NB skill to be slotted the same way Necro requires one for their 20% below 33% HP.

The lost 300-400 w/s damage should be moved to Shadow and Siphoning.
Eg. Shadow - Shadow Barrier = Provides Major Resolve and +200 w/s damage for 12s or figure out something completely new for Dark Veil since all these +2s duration passives should be reworked anyway.

Eg. Siphoning - Soul Siphoner = Increases healing and damage done by 2% instead of just healing done by 3% per slotted.

Moving the w/s damage to Shadow would be amazing! Please, ZOS, Shadow is the least used and most underdeveloped class skill line in the game, give it some love and make it viable 😭

frostbreeze · July 22

Hello,sorc main for 10+ years here mainly pvper.
The max mag passive to dark magic cant work the way it is now.If I invest in max magica i expect it to be reliably buffed not randomly and incosistently with 10 sec duration.That is ridiculus.
Most appropriate would be: while having a dark magic ability slotted gain 10% max mag/stam like the siphoning passive Or as mentioned previously added to exploitation with a 20 second duration WITHOUT needing you to be max health.That is ridiculus and you wont have it when u need it the most ,e.g. when ure being damaged.
Max sorc went from god tier to bottom tier cause u nerfed max magica passives.We dont need heal on ward that was overkill and will be abused by the max hp meta you created by releasing monomyth.
Please reconsider this max mag change.As it stands its a huge nerf for pure sorc AND doenst make dark magic any more attractive for subclassing

MincMincMinc · July 22

frostbreeze wrote: »

Hello,sorc main for 10+ years here mainly pvper.
The max mag passive to dark magic cant work the way it is now.If I invest in max magica i expect it to be reliably buffed not randomly and incosistently with 10 sec duration.That is ridiculus.
Most appropriate would be: while having a dark magic ability slotted gain 10% max mag/stam like the siphoning passive Or as mentioned previously added to exploitation with a 20 second duration WITHOUT needing you to be max health.That is ridiculus and you wont have it when u need it the most ,e.g. when ure being damaged.
Max sorc went from god tier to bottom tier cause u nerfed max magica passives.We dont need heal on ward that was overkill and will be abused by the max hp meta you created by releasing monomyth.
Please reconsider this max mag change.As it stands its a huge nerf for pure sorc AND doenst make dark magic any more attractive for subclassing

You mean to say that not everything needs to be a proc with cooldowns and timers? All the kids think they are hip and cool though.

madmufffin · July 22

Everything about the sorc changes since the announcement of subclassing has been disastrous and it's clearly not going to get any better. The sorc lines really do nothing well for their intended role, especially in pve, and by 'spreading the strength' you just make them more ambiguously useless. Consolidate the 3 lines into something resembling traditional roles and build off that. Adding an unreliable proc to one of the worst skill lines in the game at the expense of the only used line for the class (in PVE) makes no sense. It's not good enough to make Dark Magic be attractive and comes at the expense of making Daedric Summoning worse. It's just a horrible approach.