Who do you think Subclassing was meant for?

Sarannah

Subclassing was meant for NPC's. For a long time now NPCs have been killing players too easily and have gotten more powerful with each update, so it was time to give players some more power back to offset this.

twisttop138

The Devs (who don't have to worry about balancing classes any more)

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

SolarRune wrote: »

solo questers appear to represent the majority of people in the game these days.

Hot take, got any proof to back up this statement ? Since i heavily disagree, i got to ask

Where would you expect the majority?

PvP is almost empty, BGs are always the same 3 players, raid groups are dying and players have a hard time finding raids.

Those who are playing in groups or doing group content, like PVP, dungeons and raids are the minority. And I can tell it as someone, who only does said activities.

I'm of the opinion that the majority does many different things and doesn't belong to one group. I'm an officer in a social guild with amazing folks who quest, do housing, fashion, overland stuff, cyrodil, BG's and trials. Many do large numbers of the things I just mentioned. I'm an end game trial player, in trial guilds but also do housing, quest, hm dungeons, BGs. We got senior citizens who are awesome trial players and one in my dungeon core. I know my sample size is not huge but I think most players would be hard pressed to be pigeon holed into one group.

reazea

The Devs (who don't have to worry about balancing classes any more)

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Everything ZOS has done since and including U35 has convinced me of one thing more than any other.

ZOS is winding down their investments into everything ESO related.

U46 and subclassing is just another in a long list of smaller steps toward putting ESO into autopilot mode . (read "maintenance mode") I don't think the game is dying, but it's not going to get anywhere near the updates or content or QoL improvements promised (especially not for PvP) and it's abundantly clear dev and financial resources that come from ESO are being allocated to other projects or discontinued outright.

In this respect ZOS is massively benefitting from an overall lack of competition in the MMO market. And we as long term ESO players are the losers in this scenario.

I really wish ZOS would sell the rights to ESO to some young, newer, hungrier IP that would take advantage of all the potential ESO still has and make ESO great again....for lack of better, less tainted terminology.

Yep, all signs point toward ESO is slowly closing up shop.

alternatelder

Maybe change the snarky options and you'd have a decent poll.

Desiato

I didn't vote because I think subclassing can be enjoyed by anyone., I know a lot of casual players -- including sweaty casuals -- who are excited about non-meta themed builds like summoners and elementalist.

Of course it was a divisive change, but across all types of players.

I'm a mid tier trial player who is slowly dipping toes in trifectas and I've enjoyed adapting to u46. It's been fun assembling new trial builds and experimenting on my own in dungeons. I like that the skill cap was raised [IMO].

I didn't want subclassing to happen, but that's life. We don't always get what we want. Eventually all products will be deprecated. It happened and I'm having a great time making the best of it. It's not like they're going to reverse it.

ESO appears to have entered a new phase, but I don't think it's necessarily bad. My favorite period playing ESO was 2014-2017 when the community was smaller and less [ultra]casual.

peacenote

I can't select a poll option for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that I don't think that ZOS has ever designed content specifically aimed to one population. We, the community, make these assumptions because this is how we often see ourselves, which I've repeatedly argued is flawed because many players enjoy and play more than one kind of content. But even within that flawed logic the poll is problematic, because it makes assumptions about what "end game" is and what "casuals" do and PvE vs. PvP. Apparently New Players can't be casuals, for example.

Anyone who has stepped into PvP solely to unlock a skill in the Assault line for PvE, or farmed a piece of a mythic for combat by hunting nodes, lock boxes, fishing, etc. has experienced the fact that ESO has always been designed to encourage everyone to explore and try everything. Of all the changes I've seen in ESO over the years, that is the one thing that has never changed, in my opinion. The devs seem to look at ESO as a single, broad game, and frankly we'd be way better off as a community if we stopped trying to divide ourselves into groups and give ourselves labels, and did the same.

Therefore, (imo ofc!), there are two right answers to this poll. First of all, it is for "everyone." The more people that enjoy content, from a business perspective, the better. The second right answer is "for the devs" but I don't believe it is because of class balance so much as it is their game, and they get excited about ideas and want to implement them. That's pretty obvious in some of the reveal videos. There are things they want to do and we get features all the time that "no one" asked for because those features are ZOS's vision. And honestly, that's their prerogative, as devs. They should be able to choose projects that they're excited to deliver to the community. Obviously we hope that they don't ignore an often-requested feature for something that none of us will find fun at all, because we all have our own hopes for the game... but, it's their game, and their job, and sometimes they just do stuff because they think it will be cool.

While over the years there have been some roll-outs that have had unintended or not fully understood consequences, I have seen zero evidence that a subset of people in ZOS get together in a room and and think about how they can cater to a certain group and exclude others. They want us to enjoy all of the content. I really, truly believe that.

WhoThenNow7

In my opinion it's for everyone and I'm very happy about it, because to me it makes it feel more like a true elder scrolls game where you have the freedom to level up and use whichever skills you want. Also, I have done so much on my main and research for crafting to the point where I wouldn't want to play on a different character. At least now I can experiment with different class skills while still on my main. I have taken a long break from ESO and this is finally bringing me back.

amiiegee

The Devs (who don't have to worry about balancing classes any more)

SolarRune wrote: »

There has been polls on here before showing PVP and trials accounted for about 30%, I am someone that plays mainly trials it saddened me greatly to see that that was such a small part of the community as I always thought it would be most people. But it made me appreciate that there are elements of the game that I don't really engage with that should have an equal say in how the game moves forward.

As that happened on here, where there are probably a higher amount of PVP and trial players as a proportion of the forum user base is interesting.

I suppose that's no hard proof, but there is no hard proof either that people who focus on running in trials and/or pvp represent the majority of players either. I mean as players we can't even see the true numbers of players online, so it's all a bit of a guess and gut feel for anyone apart from ZoS. (Yes we can see steam, but we can't see epic or launcher connects)

All ther polls have zero value.
This forum is highly dominated by casuals, as you can see by 90% of the threads.
And thats totally fine.

Just glad zos doesnt listen to the forum anyway.

Bobargus

The Devs (who don't have to worry about balancing classes any more)

Other: For everyone.

Muizer

Endgame PvE players (because every group needs 300k dps players and only one healer)

This has been simmering for a while. There was something familiar about the implementation of subclassing:

Firstly, the major change effected predominantly through one discipline of development (code), while reusing existing assets for almost everything else.

Secondly, the 'Sounds cool, let's implement it and see how it works out' attitude.

Then I realised why it was so familiar. I did that myself a long time ago. When I was modding a game.

BXR_Lonestar

The Devs (who don't have to worry about balancing classes any more)

I voted the devs, but I also think this is for those ESO players who only ever want to play ONE character - and that it is. This feels like a change that will "let them play how they want to play" ... even though the game has had classes from the beginning, and you can have up to 20 different character slots, and the game's leveling system is meant to make it so easy to get an alternative character to level up....

This_0ne

The Devs (who don't have to worry about balancing classes any more)

X - RP players

Navaac223

Mid-game PvE and casual players (because endgame achievements should be for everyone)

This reminds me of what I posted on a discord right after subclassing was announced. I was so baffled by how many people there were on the forums who only thought about making an all pet build while end game players were thinking about the huge impact on balance xD


Though this was about pvp, it seems obvious that subclassing is 100% meant for players who don't play it at a high level (not judging, just observing)

It's actually hilarious how wrong I was about the skills that would destoy the pvp meta xD

Cooperharley

Mid-game PvE and casual players (because endgame achievements should be for everyone)

Desiato wrote: »

I didn't vote because I think subclassing can be enjoyed by anyone., I know a lot of casual players -- including sweaty casuals -- who are excited about non-meta themed builds like summoners and elementalist.

Of course it was a divisive change, but across all types of players.

I'm a mid tier trial player who is slowly dipping toes in trifectas and I've enjoyed adapting to u46. It's been fun assembling new trial builds and experimenting on my own in dungeons. I like that the skill cap was raised [IMO].

I didn't want subclassing to happen, but that's life. We don't always get what we want. Eventually all products will be deprecated. It happened and I'm having a great time making the best of it. It's not like they're going to reverse it.

ESO appears to have entered a new phase, but I don't think it's necessarily bad. My favorite period playing ESO was 2014-2017 when the community was smaller and less [ultra]casual.

I think the poll is not necessarily asking who will enjoy it the most, but who you think the devs created it FOR or thought of the most when creating it.

Cooperharley

Mid-game PvE and casual players (because endgame achievements should be for everyone)

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I voted the devs, but I also think this is for those ESO players who only ever want to play ONE character - and that it is. This feels like a change that will "let them play how they want to play" ... even though the game has had classes from the beginning, and you can have up to 20 different character slots, and the game's leveling system is meant to make it so easy to get an alternative character to level up....

Eh that's pretty much me if we're being honest.

While you CAN play 20 characters, I find it really tiresome and boring to quest through all the zones again, level up allll the skill lines, etc etc etc. Of course I don't have to, but my brain prefers to see things completed, so i've always been more of a one character person unless I get really burnt out and then want to start fresh. Subclassing from that specific regard is great.

katorga

The Devs (who don't have to worry about balancing classes any more)

Cooperharley wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I voted the devs, but I also think this is for those ESO players who only ever want to play ONE character - and that it is. This feels like a change that will "let them play how they want to play" ... even though the game has had classes from the beginning, and you can have up to 20 different character slots, and the game's leveling system is meant to make it so easy to get an alternative character to level up....

Eh that's pretty much me if we're being honest.

While you CAN play 20 characters, I find it really tiresome and boring to quest through all the zones again, level up allll the skill lines, etc etc etc. Of course I don't have to, but my brain prefers to see things completed, so i've always been more of a one character person unless I get really burnt out and then want to start fresh. Subclassing from that specific regard is great.

I voted for the devs, but the above post is right. I have every class at 50. I have TWO classes fully loaded out with skill points, and zero desire to take the other through all of the questlines, lorebook gathering and other time traps to get to the same level. So for me, subclassing is fun.

The dev's have finally "balanced" PVP because everything is available to everyone.