Instead of Subclassing, wouldn't a Class Change Token be better for everyone?

BXR_Lonestar · May 12

SerasWhip wrote: »

The ones who want to experience a new class with their main would be satisfied. Be it for RP reasons or to breathe a new life into overland content without starting from scratch.

The ones who worry about homogenization, possible nerfs, or other imbalance issues would have nothing to worry about. Nothing for them would change after all.

The ones who want to experiment with different combinations of skill lines would be disappointed however. But personally I don't see why people would choose anything other than the specific most viable skills of any class. So I don't see much experimentation in the long run anyway.

Thoughts?

Yes, I'd rather a class change token vs. subclassing. IMO, subclassing has the potential to really wreck any semblance of balance in both PVE and PVP. Everyone I know who is excited about it is excited about it PRECISELY for this reason. It will feel ridiculously fun to be stupid/broken overpowered, but it is likely something they will not let persist in the long-haul (and if they do, it'll make the game even more miserable for the average player as they have to find more and more "creative" ways to manufacture difficulty). In the end, they'll have no choice but to nerf subclassing in order to tone down the power, which nerfs will also be harmful to the game as a whole.

And we don't even have subclassing yet, and I now see people crying to eliminate racial differences. People - this game is not Oblivion or Skyrim. You have extra character slots for a reason. Your new characters keep your same champion point level, and you only need to level from 1-50, which takes less than a day if you want to REALLY grind it out (But if not, you can easily do it in less than a week). This is not that difficult, and you were never meant to play ONLY ONE character when you play this game.

mdjessup4906 · May 12

We should have both. Especially since class mastery meta makes only 1 or 2 classes usable as a base. Either that or let us change class mastery too. I'd prefer the latter actually, since it makes more sense with the existing subclass system.

gamma71 · May 12

I wish people would stop wasting time and trying to think of alternatives that will NEVER happen. Sub classing is coming period. I for one am looking forward to it.

PDarkBHood · May 13

I want both!!! But subclassing is way more flexible. It is nice to dream!!! Maybe I missed it, BUT, a class change token is not possible at this time, Zos representative even stated this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7804848/#Comment_7804848

Also,
"RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »
Not possible, they've essentially implied before that classes are coded so intertwined with the rest of your character, that they CAN'T do it. Its also the primary reason they don't do class change tokens."
from:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651102/another-year-without-a-way-for-us-to-change-class

I suppose out of this came subclassing, which is way better! Enjoy!

Warhawke_80 · May 13

I was thinking last night what they should do is get rid of classes and just offer the skills from each class in one pool....essentially that is what 99% of folks are going to do anyway...

Tandor · May 13

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I was thinking last night what they should do is get rid of classes and just offer the skills from each class in one pool....essentially that is what 99% of folks are going to do anyway...

99% of meta chasers maybe, as for the proportion of the remaining players who will make much or even any use of sub-classing I'm not so sure. I wonder what proportion of the overall playerbase do scribing, for example?

Cazador · May 13

I already have multiple characters of multiple different classes so a class change token would do basically nothing for me. Besides, subclassing just sounds more interesting anyways.

Erickson9610 · May 13

Tandor wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I was thinking last night what they should do is get rid of classes and just offer the skills from each class in one pool....essentially that is what 99% of folks are going to do anyway...

99% of meta chasers maybe, as for the proportion of the remaining players who will make much or even any use of sub-classing I'm not so sure. I wonder what proportion of the overall playerbase do scribing, for example?

More people will do Scribing once it goes base game in July.

francesinhalover · May 13

SerasWhip wrote: »

The ones who want to experience a new class with their main would be satisfied. Be it for RP reasons or to breathe a new life into overland content without starting from scratch.

The ones who worry about homogenization, possible nerfs, or other imbalance issues would have nothing to worry about. Nothing for them would change after all.

The ones who want to experiment with different combinations of skill lines would be disappointed however. But personally I don't see why people would choose anything other than the specific most viable skills of any class. So I don't see much experimentation in the long run anyway.

Thoughts?

hm... let me think

Keep the game better balanced, something i don't care about at all. And pay 5000 crowns to replace my class if not 10 000 crowns
or...keeping the game fun. with subclassing.

hm... i'll go with... subclassing and pvp separate from pve with vengeance system thank you

DreamyLu · May 14

SerasWhip wrote: »

The ones who want to experience a new class with their main would be satisfied. Be it for RP reasons or to breathe a new life into overland content without starting from scratch.

The ones who worry about homogenization, possible nerfs, or other imbalance issues would have nothing to worry about. Nothing for them would change after all.

The ones who want to experiment with different combinations of skill lines would be disappointed however. But personally I don't see why people would choose anything other than the specific most viable skills of any class. So I don't see much experimentation in the long run anyway.

Thoughts?

As said often, sorry for the repeat, I'm not interested in a class change token. I would very much prefer a token boosting us straight from 0 up to 50/160.

I have one alt per class I want to play. A class is - for me - part of the "personality" of the toon. One class = one char in my case.

SaintJohnHM · May 14

This convoluted multiclassing design that also ruins pure classes is garbage. True subclassing where the classes focus on a specific skill line that makes them a specialist in that same class rather than taking skills from another class and therefore having to nerf that skill line and pure class to pretend to make it balanced but rather makes a few specific frankenstein builds OP that ruin the challenge of all the current content would be a more fun solution for many of us, but instead they won't listen to our concerns.

If they couldn't give us real subclassing or even multiclassing without ruining pure classes and OP, yes, all we wanted was a class change token, a trial, four dungeons, some QoL features, etc, nobody asked for this garbage.

Rogue_Coyote · May 14

They could always increase the character max to 40 instead of 20. I'm sure I could create 20 new toons based on class mixing.

MJallday · May 14

No

im really looking forward to subclassing. the classes that they came up originally with were largely non-folklore anyway

Xarc · May 14

Instead of Subclassing, wouldn't a Class Change Token be better for everyone?

no thx

Ragnarok0130 · May 14

kargen27 wrote: »

I don't like the idea of class change. To me it shortcuts actually playing the game. There are many different ways to level a new character so you can get used to that character and how it will play as you level the skills.

Except that ZoS needs to respect player time when they nerf a class into the ground or intentionally neglect it like Necro so being able to change one’s class without having to regrind skill points, sky shards, etc would be very helpful. Failing that being able to buy a token to fully level your toon to level 50 like every other MMO seems to have would be a second helpful option. Short cutting the game isn’t a problem when you’ve done the grind at least once, but those in end game often need multiple toons of different classes and races to min/max. The faster I can get past the low level grind 1-50 and skill point grind the faster I can get back to participating in the part of the game I enjoy - trials.

Instead we got frankenstein’s monster under the guise of subclassing (multi-classing) instead of the class change token we’ve been requesting for years.ZoS told us for years that alliance change tokens were impossible because that choice was hard coded into the game and yet they were perfectly willing to sell that to us at a premium price; it is like it’s the same with classes.

Daoin · May 14

Subclassing, Boo! Boo!

SilverBride · May 14

Anything would be better than subclassing.

Warhawke_80 · May 14

SilverBride wrote: »

Anything would be better than subclassing.

I don't understand why some folks are having a fit over this...it's not like they are forcing people to subclass

Don't like it don't use it...but no need to be the fun police for those of us who are excited about it.

Daoin · May 14

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Anything would be better than subclassing.

I don't understand why some folks are having a fit over this...it's not like they are forcing people to subclass

Don't like it don't use it...but no need to be the fun police for those of us who are excited about it.

fun police say the classes need to learn to stay in thier own lane not having fun on your own toon dont take it out on the other classes, then steal the skills in the name of the fun police. Boo! Boo! to Subclassing then stear many years of peoples play time in eso at the same time and think the update is not an affront on many different levels for different people with words like 'optional' but i would however like to thank you, as the person who gave me the last push to understand my thought on subclassing could no longer validate a monthly cost to play the game itself and thus finally cancel the subscription. and to think some players had not put up with enough through the years before this idk. go for it eso take one final leap before you look and find an update to go full P2W

SilverBride · May 14

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Anything would be better than subclassing.

I don't understand why some folks are having a fit over this...it's not like they are forcing people to subclass

Don't like it don't use it...but no need to be the fun police for those of us who are excited about it.

I am fine with those who are interested in this feature using it. What I am not fine with is how they are nerfing class skill lines, particularly Sorcerers, which makes them a weaker version of what they once were, so those of us that do not wish to subclass will be negatively affected.

Daoin · May 14

even its the arcanists fault subclassing is broke now and everyone will beam does not work as people that did not even use arcanist left that did not even damage much but more liked too tank and heal

Vonnegut2506 · May 14

I wonder if the same couple people keep complaining over and over ZOS will fold to the non-massive pushback and just decide to scrap subclassing. I guess we will see.

Daoin · May 14

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

I wonder if the same couple people keep complaining over and over ZOS will fold to the non-massive pushback and just decide to scrap subclassing. I guess we will see.

i guess if ZOS cared what you thought they would keep you in the loop too, guess we'll see what the future holds and if ZOS can maintain enough of a crowd of peoople to pull out of the laughable amount of average players league since increasing the population in a no zone this update

Boo! Boo! to Subclassing

Arunei · May 14

Are there really people, after all the times this kind of thread has been made and the following points made, going on about "but it's so easy and fast to level a new character!"?

Consider maybe someone has a full roster and can't just make a new character. And no, deleting a character for these people is probably not an answer, if they're all characters a person regularly plays or has a specific role for (and don't automatically assume a full roster means 22 characters, as any slot after the 8th has to be paid for, and thus a full roster can be anything from 8 to 22).

Consider maybe someone doesn't want to spend the time and hassle of leveling (and potentially unlocking) various Skill Lines all over again, or deal with collecting Skyshards all over again, or deal with leveling Mounts all over again. These are things people conveniently seem to forget don't get done in just a handful of hours.

Consider a person might, for any number of reasons, not have the time OR desire to grind out 1-50 in a mindless Dolmen train or in Spell Scar or Skyreach. People might only have a limited time to play every day and might not want to spend time grinding levels. It's not fun for many people, and 40-50 is a SLOG. People who have limited play time would like to spend that time doing something they actually enjoy. Which ties back to the last point of people not wanting to spend who knows how long collecting Skyshards/Skill Points and leveling Skill Lines.

People keep saying it would let people chase meta too easily...but then y'all say leveling a character is so fast and easy, so what's the difference? If it's so easy and quick to level a new character then people who chase the meta are going to do it regardless, and apparently in just a few hours.

It'll probably never happen, whatever allows them to do Subclassing is probably entirely different coding than a Class Change token would be. But maybe, just maybe, instead of accusing people who'd want to use them of being lazy or whatever, you actually stop and consider all the OTHER things that go into a new character than just 1-50.

Daoin · May 14

Arunei wrote: »

Are there really people, after all the times this kind of thread has been made and the following points made, going on about "but it's so easy and fast to level a new character!"?

Consider maybe someone has a full roster and can't just make a new character. And no, deleting a character for these people is probably not an answer, if they're all characters a person regularly plays or has a specific role for (and don't automatically assume a full roster means 22 characters, as any slot after the 8th has to be paid for, and thus a full roster can be anything from 8 to 22).

Consider maybe someone doesn't want to spend the time and hassle of leveling (and potentially unlocking) various Skill Lines all over again, or deal with collecting Skyshards all over again, or deal with leveling Mounts all over again. These are things people conveniently seem to forget don't get done in just a handful of hours.

Consider a person might, for any number of reasons, not have the time OR desire to grind out 1-50 in a mindless Dolmen train or in Spell Scar or Skyreach. People might only have a limited time to play every day and might not want to spend time grinding levels. It's not fun for many people, and 40-50 is a SLOG. People who have limited play time would like to spend that time doing something they actually enjoy. Which ties back to the last point of people not wanting to spend who knows how long collecting Skyshards/Skill Points and leveling Skill Lines.

People keep saying it would let people chase meta too easily...but then y'all say leveling a character is so fast and easy, so what's the difference? If it's so easy and quick to level a new character then people who chase the meta are going to do it regardless, and apparently in just a few hours.

It'll probably never happen, whatever allows them to do Subclassing is probably entirely different coding than a Class Change token would be. But maybe, just maybe, instead of accusing people who'd want to use them of being lazy or whatever, you actually stop and consider all the OTHER things that go into a new character than just 1-50.

without reading the full post and having today decided on a new name and made a new character at level 3 for just that puropose named 'The Third Man' i had by a few hours later weighed up the pro's and con's of such a move and the con's outweighed the pro's so i doubt the character will make it to level 4, no room for frankenteins bride in roster i guess

Daoin · May 14

and no offence but when a korean obvious cash grab P2W mmorpg that was made for mobile game starts leaving eso in the dust like TaL theres a sure sign its a time to panic, this update is also a bit of a slap to anyone that defended eso over there too, at least TaL can cut thier losses at anytime and say we never claimed otherwise

mrreow · May 14

It is too late now. Once this system goes live it won’t be scrapped, that never happens.

All is left is to hope that the game will survive this feature and our pixels won’t be lost

Daoin · May 14

that maybe true and i truly hope the leftover playerbase enjoys what is being brought forward in the update but i also hope once and for all devs change the approach at which way they view updates on the way back up, but i admit even i saw the silver lining on everthing that happened up until now in eso, feels like more of as farewell shindig than an update to me

AngryPenguin · May 14

SerasWhip wrote: »

The ones who want to experience a new class with their main would be satisfied. Be it for RP reasons or to breathe a new life into overland content without starting from scratch.

The ones who worry about homogenization, possible nerfs, or other imbalance issues would have nothing to worry about. Nothing for them would change after all.

The ones who want to experiment with different combinations of skill lines would be disappointed however. But personally I don't see why people would choose anything other than the specific most viable skills of any class. So I don't see much experimentation in the long run anyway.

Thoughts?

Yes. Agreed.

Daoin · May 14

my only thought on my mind right now is even if this was the known destination of eso even just 2 years back the countless hours i could have saved and invested into other projects