Would you like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion?

spartaxoxo · January 2

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

Haven't you ever noticed a lot of players don't use companions? Why do you think that is?

That's a very different experience than what I've had. I see players using Companions everywhere! Of course, there's usually no room for them in Dungeons/Trials/Arenas and they can't be brought into Cyrodiil/Imperial City/Battlegrounds anyway. They're also forced to be hidden while in towns.

I see them everywhere too. But, I'm sure there's plenty that hate them. There's plenty of people that dislike every activity in the game. I think that it's inevitable. I don't see it as a compelling reason to stop all content from being rewarding though, personally. We wouldn't have any rewards at all if the basis for adding a reward was someone, somewhere might want it but not want to play that activity.

The solution to that is just let all content have a variety of rewards imo. This way it's no big deal if someone missed one.

Erickson9610 · January 2

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

Haven't you ever noticed a lot of players don't use companions? Why do you think that is?

That's a very different experience than what I've had. I see players using Companions everywhere! Of course, there's usually no room for them in Dungeons/Trials/Arenas and they can't be brought into Cyrodiil/Imperial City/Battlegrounds anyway. They're also forced to be hidden while in towns.

I see them everywhere too. But, I'm sure there's plenty that hate them. There's plenty of people that dislike every activity in the game. I think that it's inevitable. I don't see it as a compelling reason to stop all content from being rewarding though, personally. We wouldn't have any rewards at all if the basis for adding a reward was someone, somewhere might want it but not want to play that activity.

The solution to that is just let all content have a variety of rewards imo. This way it's no big deal if someone missed one.

Agreed. And I'd like to stress that I'm not saying that every future Grimoire should be sourced from future Companions. Like previously mentioned, Grimoires could even be acquired from Antiquity leads and Tales of Tribute matches. I'd really just like to see some Grimoires obtained from more interesting sources.

My primary motivation for proposing a Companion as a source for a Grimoire is because it would offer more in-depth possibilities for both systems. A Companion involved with Scribing could have an interesting story that expands the lore of Scribing, while their Grimoire could potentially be very useful when used with your Companion.

Taril · January 2

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Companions are just quest characters who are by our side, rather than left behind whenever their quest is over.

Except they're not.

Companions as a system is tied to the grind associated with their Rapport and Levels.

Unless you want the Grimoire to be handed out from doing the initial quest to obtain the Companion, there will be a need to grind the Companion in some form or another.

Which, not everyone wants to do. Either because they're not interested in Companions entirely, or maybe they don't like a specific companion (Many people have expressed how they will never pick up Tanlorin because they vehemently dislike their character)

This is different to something like a regular quest line because you only have to do a handful of quests for a questline. There's no grind involved (There would be for Mage/Fighter Guild if it requires having completed their original stories given the need for Rank 5 to obtain the final quests. This could actually be an issue for some people who explicitly avoid one/both of those guilds on certain characters)

A quest character, requires no input. You get the quest and they tag along while you do the quest and then after they heck off and you don't have to interact with them ever again. You don't have to grind out their Rapport or levels to get the quest rewards or additional quests. You just do the quest and that's it.

Again, the Companion system can (And really should) be enhanced in of itself. The entire thing is rather shallow as is. Sticking arbitrary companion requirements to other systems does nothing to improve the state of the companion system. All it does is somehow shoehorn this shallow companion system into other rewards, with at best having to obtain a companion via their intro quest to access it for some reason (And at worst, you have to actually grind out the companion, potentially on every character because of needing to obtain Rapport for a companion quest)

Erickson9610 wrote: »

For example, if we want to tell a new story about the Fighters Guild, why not team up with a new Companion who is a member of the Fighters Guild and learn more about the guild through them?

The issue is that companions as they currently are implemented are very poor sources of information. Given the lack of actual dialogue they have and the limited interactions players have with them. They are not a very good medium for providing lore.

Which is one of the main points. Simply sticking a Fighters Guild companion into the game doesn't magically improve the Companion system in any way.

Nor is it much reason to have a Companion when you can just have a Quest person follow you throughout the new story like they've done plenty of times. Keeping in mind, that this is also much easier to implement because ZOS won't have to make new Companion skills, Keepsakes, Achievements, Rapport modifiers etc. They just make the character, write and record the dialogue and it's done.

Meanwhile, there's nothing stopping them creating a companion that simply reacts to content. Like your Fighter's Guild companion (I.e. A character who's background is they're a member of the Fighter's Guild rather than explicitly being part of the new Fighter's Guild story) having unique dialogues and interactions if you have them active while you're doing the new Fighter's Guild storyline.

Meaning, this is a bonus thing and an evolution of the companion system (I.e. Having extra dialogues and actual interactions with quests besides maybe getting a Rapport change or Isobel simping for Lyris every time you speak to her during the Main Story) and not a requirement for the Fighter's Guild content or its rewards.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

That's a very different experience than what I've had. I see players using Companions everywhere!

Personally, I only see about 1/3 of players I encounter actually having a companion. Of course you then have to figure of that portion of players using a companion, how many actually like the companion system vs how many are just in the process of the tedious grind to level 20 and max Rapport to obtain the keepsake.

o_Primate_o · January 2

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

There's enough companions already. all the classes are covered except Warden i think.

spartaxoxo · January 2

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Companions do have a story that's just a regular quest line. The rewards can easily be tied to that and not maxed rapport or max level.

Erickson9610 · January 2

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

o_Primate_o wrote: »

There's enough companions already. all the classes are covered except Warden i think.

Sharp-as-Night is our first Warden Companion. We currently have two Dragonknights, two Khajiit, at least one of each playable class, and at least one of each playable race except Bosmer, Nord, and Orc.

While we won't expect to get new Companions every year anymore, we can still expect to get new Companions in general, because both classes and races can be repeated. Companions won't simply stop coming once we have one of every playable race and class.

DeadlySerious · January 2

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Erickson9610 wrote: »

As of writing, all but two Grimoires can be obtained by purchasing them with Gold from Chronicler Firandil in the Scholarium. One of them you obtain from completing the Scribing tutorial quest, and the other you obtain from completing the last quest in the Scribing questline, or by purchasing it from Chronicler Firandil on alternate characters once that quest has been completed. I'd really love to see future Grimoires acquired from other sources.

Another thing of note is that each Grimoire is written by some character in-world. The latest Grimoire, Banner Bearer, was written by Battlemage V'erissh.

Now that Scribing is revealed to the world, we can expect any character to try their hand at writing a new Grimoire.

So why should a Companion character be involved with Scribing, and why should a new Grimoire be granted to the player via them?

Primarily, I think that having this overlap between the Companions and Scribing systems would be a good thing for this game. Players would need to try the Companions system in order to acquire a new ability for use in PvE and PvP. I think it would inspire players to try the Companions system for the first time, the way Zerith-var (one of our latest Companions) introduced many people to Tales of Tribute via his favor achievement.

Secondly, there are many interesting ideas that can be explored if a Companion is somehow involved with Scribing. For instance, maybe this Companion uses a version of some existing Scribing abilities in combat; maybe they even use a version of this brand new ability that they give to players. While it may be infeasible to actually adapt the Scribing system for the Companions system, it would at least be possible to make a few Grimoire configurations into standalone spells that this Companion can cast. Plus, maybe this Companion's Keepsake would give players an increased chance to find Luminous Ink? Regardless, this Companion would be credited as the author of a Grimoire, making them a noteworthy character in the canon of Scribing, and it would be cool to adventure with such an important character who has made an impact on the world outside of their questline.

Finally, there ought to be more ways to acquire Grimoires than just buying them from Chronicler Firandil in the Scholarium. Would the Mages Guild sell Grimoires for "Criminal Act" skills, for skill lines like Werewolf, Vampire, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, or Legerdemain? I don't think they would, but it makes sense that a Companion who is affiliated with those skill lines might teach that sort of magic to the player. Even Zerith-var's offer to show the player a different approach to necromancy could've been interpreted as a segue into such a feature:

That's not to mention how interesting it would be for Companions of the same Class as the player to teach them new Class Grimoires. There'd be a reason to be a Necromancer traveling with Zerith-var, a Templar traveling with Isobel Veloise, and so on.

So, in summary, Scribing Grimoires are currently trivial to acquire. I would like to see more interesting ways to acquire them, and I think some level of integration with the Companions system would be an interesting direction to take for both systems. Even if it's just one Companion who is the author of a brand new Grimoire, that Companion would be noteworthy for players who don't usually use Companions at all. What do you think of this approach to introducing a new Grimoire?

How would you feel about grimoirs locked behind, say, achieving the GO achievement? What's the difference between having to achieve max level at PvP and what you're proposing? Or how about having grimoirs available only from crown crates? I mean, what you are proposing is putting these behind a pay wall. At least with the PvP example you can earn it in game instead of buying it, like you are proposing.

Erickson9610 · January 2

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

DeadlySerious wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

As of writing, all but two Grimoires can be obtained by purchasing them with Gold from Chronicler Firandil in the Scholarium. One of them you obtain from completing the Scribing tutorial quest, and the other you obtain from completing the last quest in the Scribing questline, or by purchasing it from Chronicler Firandil on alternate characters once that quest has been completed. I'd really love to see future Grimoires acquired from other sources.

Another thing of note is that each Grimoire is written by some character in-world. The latest Grimoire, Banner Bearer, was written by Battlemage V'erissh.

Now that Scribing is revealed to the world, we can expect any character to try their hand at writing a new Grimoire.

So why should a Companion character be involved with Scribing, and why should a new Grimoire be granted to the player via them?

Primarily, I think that having this overlap between the Companions and Scribing systems would be a good thing for this game. Players would need to try the Companions system in order to acquire a new ability for use in PvE and PvP. I think it would inspire players to try the Companions system for the first time, the way Zerith-var (one of our latest Companions) introduced many people to Tales of Tribute via his favor achievement.

Secondly, there are many interesting ideas that can be explored if a Companion is somehow involved with Scribing. For instance, maybe this Companion uses a version of some existing Scribing abilities in combat; maybe they even use a version of this brand new ability that they give to players. While it may be infeasible to actually adapt the Scribing system for the Companions system, it would at least be possible to make a few Grimoire configurations into standalone spells that this Companion can cast. Plus, maybe this Companion's Keepsake would give players an increased chance to find Luminous Ink? Regardless, this Companion would be credited as the author of a Grimoire, making them a noteworthy character in the canon of Scribing, and it would be cool to adventure with such an important character who has made an impact on the world outside of their questline.

Finally, there ought to be more ways to acquire Grimoires than just buying them from Chronicler Firandil in the Scholarium. Would the Mages Guild sell Grimoires for "Criminal Act" skills, for skill lines like Werewolf, Vampire, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, or Legerdemain? I don't think they would, but it makes sense that a Companion who is affiliated with those skill lines might teach that sort of magic to the player. Even Zerith-var's offer to show the player a different approach to necromancy could've been interpreted as a segue into such a feature:

That's not to mention how interesting it would be for Companions of the same Class as the player to teach them new Class Grimoires. There'd be a reason to be a Necromancer traveling with Zerith-var, a Templar traveling with Isobel Veloise, and so on.

So, in summary, Scribing Grimoires are currently trivial to acquire. I would like to see more interesting ways to acquire them, and I think some level of integration with the Companions system would be an interesting direction to take for both systems. Even if it's just one Companion who is the author of a brand new Grimoire, that Companion would be noteworthy for players who don't usually use Companions at all. What do you think of this approach to introducing a new Grimoire?

How would you feel about grimoirs locked behind, say, achieving the GO achievement? What's the difference between having to achieve max level at PvP and what you're proposing? Or how about having grimoirs available only from crown crates? I mean, what you are proposing is putting these behind a pay wall. At least with the PvP example you can earn it in game instead of buying it, like you are proposing.

You wouldn't be directly buying the Grimoire. Scribing itself is locked behind the Gold Road Chapter, which is bought with real money. The reason we don't consider Scribing pay-to-win is because you have to do something to unlock the feature in the DLC. Gameplay is required; it's not an instant boost just for spending money.

I think any achievement should be fair game as the unlock condition for Scribing Grimoires. In my example, the required achievement would likely be completing the Companion's entire storyline — which is generally much easier and quicker to obtain for all players than the Grand Overlord achievement would be. For most Companions, unlocking that achievement just means doing their daily rapport quests every day and completing their story quests — it's not competitive the way PvP or endgame PvE is.

So, no — Grimoires should not be put directly in the Crown Store or in Crown Crates. They should be unlocked through gameplay. The Companion questlines are gameplay, just like any questline in any DLC. That's not to mention that future Companions may not even be located in the Crown Store at all — they could be included in a future Season, the way they used to be included in Chapters.

Taril · January 2

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Companions do have a story that's just a regular quest line. The rewards can easily be tied to that and not maxed rapport or max level.

Companion quests literally are tied to rapport.

You need 1000, 2000 and 3000 rapport to unlock their quests.

If you tie rewards to companion quests, you are still involving the need to obtain rapport.

Parasaurolophus · January 2

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Companions are pretty useless. The scribing system is 99% useless. Useless + useless?

Erickson9610 · January 2

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Taril wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Companions do have a story that's just a regular quest line. The rewards can easily be tied to that and not maxed rapport or max level.

Companion quests literally are tied to rapport.

You need 1000, 2000 and 3000 rapport to unlock their quests.

If you tie rewards to companion quests, you are still involving the need to obtain rapport.

What's the problem here? Rapport is easily obtained by the Companion's favorite daily quests, some of which are as simple (subjectively) as completing daily Enchanting or Alchemy writs. Multiple Companions gain rapport from Fighters Guild daily quests.

You don't need maximum rapport to unlock the Companion's final quest, nor do you need to get them to Level 20 and max out all of their weapon, guild, and armor skill lines. You don't even need to complete their favor achievement, which for some Companions requires dueling or Tales of Tribute.

Once one of your characters has completed the Companion's main quest and you're given the associated achievement, then I think it's fair that their Grimoire could be purchased from the Chronicler. If the Companion develops it while traveling with your first character, then it could be considered officially published by the time your other characters visit the Scholarium.

Erickson9610 · January 2

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Companions are pretty useless. The scribing system is 99% useless. Useless + useless?

Those are two of my favorite features, so they're definitely not useless for me.

Taril · January 2

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Erickson9610 wrote: »

What's the problem here? Rapport is easily obtained by the Companion's favorite daily quests, some of which are as simple (subjectively) as completing daily Enchanting or Alchemy writs. Multiple Companions gain rapport from Fighters Guild daily quests.

It's a tedious and time consuming grind (In the sense that these daily quests are DAILY locked)

Even more so depending on exactly WHAT the companion's daily quests are. Some like Zerith's ToT daily or Isobel/Sharp's WB daily can be prohibitive to players.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

You don't need maximum rapport to unlock the Companion's final quest

Currently no. But what about your suggestion for things like a Grimoire from Zerith and Isobel? Would you stick the Grimoire in their last quest reward?

Or would they have new quests that DO require 4000 or even 5000 rapport? (If we're giving additional quests, it's possible that they might continue the theme of providing a quest per 1000 rapport)

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Once one of your characters has completed the Companion's main quest and you're given the associated achievement, then I think it's fair that their Grimoire could be purchased from the Chronicler. If the Companion develops it while traveling with your first character, then it could be considered officially published by the time your other characters visit the Scholarium.

Even then, it's still predicated on having to grind up the companion's rapport. Even if it's just once. That's still annoying enough to many people and completely arbitrary in terrms of its existence and still adds nothing at all to either system.

All it does is make a companion and its rapport grind a necessity (Which people are even more concerned about given the nature of how content is changing and the recent Tanlorin and Zerith additions to the crown store separate from the current chapter - Which would essentially mean gating a grimoire behind a paywall. When currently all grimoires are available in the base game meaning the entirety of Scribing is contained within Gold Road alone.)

It doesn't add anything to companions themselves. (Even any lore is quickly broken if a character can be using a Grimoire that Zerith supposedly wrote while still a corpse because that character hadn't yet done the quest where he wakes up). It doesn't add anything to scribing.

All it does is needlessly annoy people who don't like companions as well as those who don't own certain DLC's to access specific companions (Which people are already fed up with in regards to antiquities with leads being shoved in everywhere)

Erickson9610 · January 2

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Taril wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

What's the problem here? Rapport is easily obtained by the Companion's favorite daily quests, some of which are as simple (subjectively) as completing daily Enchanting or Alchemy writs. Multiple Companions gain rapport from Fighters Guild daily quests.

It's a tedious and time consuming grind (In the sense that these daily quests are DAILY locked)

Even more so depending on exactly WHAT the companion's daily quests are. Some like Zerith's ToT daily or Isobel/Sharp's WB daily can be prohibitive to players.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

You don't need maximum rapport to unlock the Companion's final quest

Currently no. But what about your suggestion for things like a Grimoire from Zerith and Isobel? Would you stick the Grimoire in their last quest reward?

Or would they have new quests that DO require 4000 or even 5000 rapport? (If we're giving additional quests, it's possible that they might continue the theme of providing a quest per 1000 rapport)

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Once one of your characters has completed the Companion's main quest and you're given the associated achievement, then I think it's fair that their Grimoire could be purchased from the Chronicler. If the Companion develops it while traveling with your first character, then it could be considered officially published by the time your other characters visit the Scholarium.

Even then, it's still predicated on having to grind up the companion's rapport. Even if it's just once. That's still annoying enough to many people and completely arbitrary in terrms of its existence and still adds nothing at all to either system.

All it does is make a companion and its rapport grind a necessity (Which people are even more concerned about given the nature of how content is changing and the recent Tanlorin and Zerith additions to the crown store separate from the current chapter - Which would essentially mean gating a grimoire behind a paywall. When currently all grimoires are available in the base game meaning the entirety of Scribing is contained within Gold Road alone.)

It doesn't add anything to companions themselves. (Even any lore is quickly broken if a character can be using a Grimoire that Zerith supposedly wrote while still a corpse because that character hadn't yet done the quest where he wakes up). It doesn't add anything to scribing.

All it does is needlessly annoy people who don't like companions as well as those who don't own certain DLC's to access specific companions (Which people are already fed up with in regards to antiquities with leads being shoved in everywhere)

In hindsight, that suggestion I made about existing Companions making Class Grimoires is nonsense. It was a cool idea, but I see how flawed it is.

However, what I've mainly been asking for is a new Companion writing a new Grimoire. It could be as simple as a new character appearing in the Scholarium, requiring the Gold Road Chapter, who joins the player as a Companion and awards them a Grimoire as well as an associated Houseguest version of themselves.

spartaxoxo · January 2

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Taril wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Companions do have a story that's just a regular quest line. The rewards can easily be tied to that and not maxed rapport or max level.

Companion quests literally are tied to rapport.

You need 1000, 2000 and 3000 rapport to unlock their quests.

If you tie rewards to companion quests, you are still involving the need to obtain rapport.

Yes. But it dramatically less rapport than maximum rapport, which is the specific achievement I said it shouldn't be tied to.

It only takes about a week of doing dailies and the companions storyline to get that done. This amounts to something like 11 quests (IDK the specific number) which is on par with the zone story quest line and possibly shorter since a good chunk of that is daily quests which are shorter in length than zone story quests.

Maxing out level or rapport is significantly more time consuming than just finishing the quest line. The quest line itself is on par with other major quest lines in terms of time spent. completion.

Taril · January 2

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Yes. But it dramatically less rapport than maximum rapport, which is the specific achievement I said it shouldn't be tied to.

Max Rapport is 4000 (For the purposes of the achievement).

3000 is not "Dramatically less", it's still most of the way to max rapport.

And unlike a normal questline, much of this is gated behind the daily quests. While you can complete an entire regular storyline in about a single afternoon.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

However, what I've mainly been asking for is a new Companion writing a new Grimoire. It could be as simple as a new character appearing in the Scholarium, requiring the Gold Road Chapter, who joins the player as a Companion and awards them a Grimoire as well as an associated Houseguest version of themselves.

Even in this situation, it's still tying a companion to the scribing system for no reason.

It still has the issue of people who want to do scribing ending up being forced to acquire and grind out this companion to get the grimoire.

Also, we have the secondary issue of accessability. Given that the Gold Road chapter is done. Are we expecting this additional character to be stuck into the Crown Store? AND have it locked behind Gold Road too? So not only are people who want the Grimoire stuck having to pay for this companion just to get it... But people who want the companion also have to purchase Gold Road as well as the companion itself?

While it is possible for them to stick grimoires in future purchased content (Such as how they put new antiquities in new areas), it doesn't mean players necessarily like this (As evidenced by the complaints about antiquities)

At the end of the day, my personal stance is that I'd much rather that companions (And scribing) get actually improved upon by actually making the systems better rather than trying to "Improve" these systems by needlessly sticking them into other systems for no reason.

Crossing these systems in such a way doesn't add anything to the game. While it simultaneously causes issues to many players who would thus have to interact with systems they don't want to.

Erickson9610 · January 2

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Maxing out level or rapport is significantly more time consuming than just finishing the quest line. The quest line itself is on par with other major quest lines in terms of time spent. completion.

I want to highlight this bit in particular. While yes, we could just get a new Scholarium quest giver who isn't a Companion and who awards a new Grimoire, the real motivation for making the character a Companion is to emphasize the journey with the player.

It's about time spent. Players can rush through the main quest of any DLC in a few hours. They do not feel any attachment to those characters, even if they're meant to by the end of that questline. By contrast, a Companion's quests being locked behind rapport (which itself takes a long time to grind by design) gives the player a chance to connect with that character through real time spent adventuring with them.

If ZOS were to write a quest character who supposedly creates a new Grimoire, taking inspiration from the player who aids them, they could either:

Make the character a regular quest giver, located in the Scholarium, and have them only interact with the player during their quests.
Make the character a Companion, located in the Scholarium, and have them interact with the player at all times when summoned, especially during their quests.

Of these two options, #1 would be done the fastest. It'd probably take an evening to complete. At that point, just make the Grimoire available for purchase without the silly quest requirement! It's hard to believe that this character who has seen us for only a few hours is suddenly inspired by us.

On the other hand, #2 means the player has to invest time into this character. It makes sense why this character is inspired by the player when creating their Grimoire — they've seen the player fight, and are inspired from their adventure together. There's a reason to have a quest to unlock such a Grimoire in the first place.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · January 2

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

I’m already tired of unlocking and leveling up Companions, I don’t want to be required to do it just to access what I actually want. That isn’t a trivial amount of effort.

spartaxoxo · January 2

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Taril wrote: »

3000 is not "Dramatically less", it's still most of the way to max rapport.

And unlike a normal questline, much of this is gated behind the daily quests. While you can complete an entire regular storyline in about a single afternoon.

That's because of the story quests themselves granting a massive amount of rapport. Once you finish those you're getting less rapport, especially if there's a daily you won't do.

Daily quests can't be done each day, but they're also way shorter. They take like 5 minutes.

Taril · January 3

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Erickson9610 wrote: »

By contrast, a Companion's quests being locked behind rapport (which itself takes a long time to grind by design) gives the player a chance to connect with that character through real time spent adventuring with them.

Except the fact is, the companion system is so shallow that you don't ever have to adventure with them aside from the XP grind (Which is designed explicitly so you do actually have to do something with them)

You literally summon them once per day when you hand in their daily quest and then you can unsummon them again.

Hardly giving any chance to connect. (Outside their mandatory appearance within their personal quests, which is the same time frame as any other quest related character)

This won't be solved by sticking any rewards into their questline. The result will always be the same. People who don't want to utilize the companion will still not utilize the companion. Only now they have to deal with the time gated daily quests in order to access the actual quest to get the reward they actually care about.

As I've mentioned, I would much rather see the entire companion system get updated and evolve. Give us more interaction and depth to companions.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If ZOS were to write a quest character who supposedly creates a new Grimoire, taking inspiration from the player who aids them, they could either:
Make the character a regular quest giver, located in the Scholarium, and have them only interact with the player during their quests.

Make the character a Companion, located in the Scholarium, and have them interact with the player at all times when summoned, especially during their quests.

Of these two options, #1 would be done the fastest. It'd probably take an evening to complete. At that point, just make the Grimoire available for purchase without the silly quest requirement! It's hard to believe that this character who has seen us for only a few hours is suddenly inspired by us.

On the other hand, #2 means the player has to invest time into this character. It makes sense why this character is inspired by the player when creating their Grimoire — they've seen the player fight, and are inspired from their adventure together. There's a reason to have a quest to unlock such a Grimoire in the first place.

Honestly, I'd see Nahlia making a grimoire based on our experience with her before any random companion. Nahlia was way more involved in the Scholarium questline than most companions are in their respective questlines (And daily quest farming) especially with all the prompts to go talk to her in between quest objectives (Including the quests where she wasn't directly with you) as well as all of her journal entries that get added to the Scholarium over the course of the questline.

Heck, she was significant enough that I was saddened when she became the keeper of the Scholarium instead of a companion. As I would have loved to continue adventuring with her given the depth of her interactions (Of course, if other companions are anything to go by then when becoming a companion she'd go back to being a flat barely interactive character like every other companion)

Erickson9610 · January 3

Yes, I would like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Taril wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

By contrast, a Companion's quests being locked behind rapport (which itself takes a long time to grind by design) gives the player a chance to connect with that character through real time spent adventuring with them.

Except the fact is, the companion system is so shallow that you don't ever have to adventure with them aside from the XP grind (Which is designed explicitly so you do actually have to do something with them)

You literally summon them once per day when you hand in their daily quest and then you can unsummon them again.

Hardly giving any chance to connect. (Outside their mandatory appearance within their personal quests, which is the same time frame as any other quest related character)

This won't be solved by sticking any rewards into their questline. The result will always be the same. People who don't want to utilize the companion will still not utilize the companion. Only now they have to deal with the time gated daily quests in order to access the actual quest to get the reward they actually care about.

As I've mentioned, I would much rather see the entire companion system get updated and evolve. Give us more interaction and depth to companions.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If ZOS were to write a quest character who supposedly creates a new Grimoire, taking inspiration from the player who aids them, they could either:
Make the character a regular quest giver, located in the Scholarium, and have them only interact with the player during their quests.

Make the character a Companion, located in the Scholarium, and have them interact with the player at all times when summoned, especially during their quests.

Of these two options, #1 would be done the fastest. It'd probably take an evening to complete. At that point, just make the Grimoire available for purchase without the silly quest requirement! It's hard to believe that this character who has seen us for only a few hours is suddenly inspired by us.

On the other hand, #2 means the player has to invest time into this character. It makes sense why this character is inspired by the player when creating their Grimoire — they've seen the player fight, and are inspired from their adventure together. There's a reason to have a quest to unlock such a Grimoire in the first place.

Honestly, I'd see Nahlia making a grimoire based on our experience with her before any random companion. Nahlia was way more involved in the Scholarium questline than most companions are in their respective questlines (And daily quest farming) especially with all the prompts to go talk to her in between quest objectives (Including the quests where she wasn't directly with you) as well as all of her journal entries that get added to the Scholarium over the course of the questline.

Heck, she was significant enough that I was saddened when she became the keeper of the Scholarium instead of a companion. As I would have loved to continue adventuring with her given the depth of her interactions (Of course, if other companions are anything to go by then when becoming a companion she'd go back to being a flat barely interactive character like every other companion)

Yeah, Votary Nahlia can't be made into a Companion because she wasn't introduced as one, and you can't have two copies of the same character in the same scene. Likewise, existing Companions can't show up in the world in future DLC and have additional stories written about them because — once again — that would mean you could have two copies of the same character in the same scene.

Taril · January 3

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Yeah, Votary Nahlia can't be made into a Companion because she wasn't introduced as one, and you can't have two copies of the same character in the same scene. Likewise, existing Companions can't show up in the world in future DLC and have additional stories written about them because — once again — that would mean you could have two copies of the same character in the same scene.

Technically, Nahlia could be made into a companion fairly easily. If she joined after the entire Scholarium questline (Though that would be a massive ball ache to have to do on every character to get her)

Alternatively, she and other companions could be modified with some technical jiggery-pokery so that their quest related scenes can trigger from their companion states. So that the regular model gets suppressed and the interactions come from the companion while it is summoned.

peacenote · January 3

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

I actively enjoy companions despite being sure that I wouldn't. Their comments make me smile all the time.

However, I spend a lot of my game time in trials, in PvP, and in dungeons. I also have a bunch of different characters. As a result, it takes me F.O.R.E.V.E.R. to level a companion. I haven't even started on the new ones yet because I'm still leveling Sharp-as-Night, and Isobel still needs more guild levels.

Therefore I would dislike this so very very much, especially if the Grimoire was best-in-class (or honestly even slightly useful) in competitive combat. The only way this would be Ok to me is if it was awarded at the same time as the initial quest to unlock the companion. If it came at the end of the companion's quest line, or as part of their keepsake... that's a truly brutal grind for many, even if it only needs to be done once. As someone who uses and enjoys companions, and wants to see them enhanced (better combat logic, better ways to get gear, etc), I still think this is a horrible idea. Sorry. :P It's like the leads for combat mythics being in lockboxes or part of fishing, or leads for a really cool home furnishing as part of a trial boss drop. There's encouraging people to play other parts of the game, and there's forcing it in a tortuous way. Given how many places you cannot bring your companion to level, this, imo, would be on the tortuous side. Especially for people who primarily PvP.

EDIT: One thing that would be very cool, in my opinion, is if companion abilities could be scribed. That would be a way for ZOS to increase the power of the earlier companions. In that case, a Grimoire for scribing companion abilities acquired through a companion would be fun.

MJallday · January 3

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Companions are pretty useless. The scribing system is 99% useless. Useless + useless?

you're aware banner bearer is meta for most DPS clasess now right?
healers are even starting to use it

Thysbe · January 3

No, I would NOT like to see a new Grimoire be sourced from a new Companion

clear no

because I expect future companions, and therefore your grimoire, will be behing a paywall too and then its not just some fance story thing like a companion but probably an OP game ability you need for endgame like banner bearer