PvE - Lethal Attack Indicators

disky

One thing I've had trouble with in the past is the finding the distinction between an attack that will hurt me and an attack that will mean instant death if I'm unable to avoid it. I wonder if it would be a good idea to create a separate indication, either on the enemy making the attack or in the area indicator if it's an AOE, which denotes a lethal attack. It wouldn't be something that is aware of your current health, only something that will kill you instantly regardless of the state of your character if unavoided.

I like a challenge but I'm not the kind of person who pores over wikis to find what will and won't do me in, and I think something like this would alleviate a bit of frustration in that regard. I'm curious about what other people think because I'm far from an expert in high-level PvE and I'm not sure if it's something people would consider to be valuable.

Soarora

Generally, attacks follow predictable rules:
- The physically larger the enemy, the more damage it does
- Light attacks won’t 1-shot you in most cases, but heavy attacks (shown by gold lines iirc) probably will. Generally, its good to block (or if you’re not a tank, roll dodge) light and heavy attacks regardless.
- Bad AoEs are bad. Some instant kill, some don’t. But unless its a “stack and burn” fight, don’t stand in any AoEs UNLESS the AoE is YELLOW. Those are stack AoEs like Flare in Cloudrest (Siroria), Sunspire (Yoln), and bugs in BRP (Tames).

disky

Soarora wrote: »

Generally, attacks follow predictable rules:
- The physically larger the enemy, the more damage it does
- Light attacks won’t 1-shot you in most cases, but heavy attacks (shown by gold lines iirc) probably will. Generally, its good to block (or if you’re not a tank, roll dodge) light and heavy attacks regardless.
- Bad AoEs are bad. Some instant kill, some don’t. But unless its a “stack and burn” fight, don’t stand in any AoEs UNLESS the AoE is YELLOW. Those are stack AoEs like Flare in Cloudrest (Siroria), Sunspire (Yoln), and bugs in BRP (Tames).

I appreciate the primer but I understand the basic mechanics of combat. I'm talking specifically about attacks that will definitely kill you if unavoided.

Dragonnord

disky wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Generally, attacks follow predictable rules:
- The physically larger the enemy, the more damage it does
- Light attacks won’t 1-shot you in most cases, but heavy attacks (shown by gold lines iirc) probably will. Generally, its good to block (or if you’re not a tank, roll dodge) light and heavy attacks regardless.
- Bad AoEs are bad. Some instant kill, some don’t. But unless its a “stack and burn” fight, don’t stand in any AoEs UNLESS the AoE is YELLOW. Those are stack AoEs like Flare in Cloudrest (Siroria), Sunspire (Yoln), and bugs in BRP (Tames).

I appreciate the primer but I understand the basic mechanics of combat. I'm talking specifically about attacks that will definitely kill you if unavoided.

For that you just need to know the fight and the enemy (ie: a boss) you are fighting to know what attacks one-shot you.

There's no other way to know since some heavy attacks, mechanics, etc., will one-shot you and other heavy attacks, merchanics, etc., will not. You just need to know that enemy fight in particular.
 

disky

Dragonnord wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Generally, attacks follow predictable rules:
- The physically larger the enemy, the more damage it does
- Light attacks won’t 1-shot you in most cases, but heavy attacks (shown by gold lines iirc) probably will. Generally, its good to block (or if you’re not a tank, roll dodge) light and heavy attacks regardless.
- Bad AoEs are bad. Some instant kill, some don’t. But unless its a “stack and burn” fight, don’t stand in any AoEs UNLESS the AoE is YELLOW. Those are stack AoEs like Flare in Cloudrest (Siroria), Sunspire (Yoln), and bugs in BRP (Tames).

I appreciate the primer but I understand the basic mechanics of combat. I'm talking specifically about attacks that will definitely kill you if unavoided.

For that you just need to know the fight and the enemy (ie: a boss) you are fighting to know what attacks one-shot you.

There's no other way to know since some heavy attacks, mechanics, etc., will one-shot you and other heavy attacks, merchanics, etc., will not. You just need to know that enemy fight in particular.
 

Right, that's what I mean. I'm asking about whether it would be good to have a way to understand whether something will simply kill you if unavoided. The reason being that I would rather not have to check a wiki to know which attack, which from a UI perspective looks exactly like every other attack, will one-shot me. I think it would give players the ability to better understand and react in the moment, especially if they're not overly familiar with the encounter.

sarahthes

If the content is brand new, block the heavy if a tank, roll if a DD. If older, roll the heavies even if a tank.

There are exceptions to this, of course.

KaGaOri

Would love some indicator whether is incoming (heavy) attack just the "does lot of damage" kind or "will one-shot you no matter what" kind. Tried tanking while ago and this was one of most frustrating things in fights. There are attacks with same telegraph and some can be blocked and some will one-shot blocking tank with 40k+ health like it was nothing. Same with AoEs - some tank can (and apparently should) stand in, some have to be avoided even if it means moving the boss. Never had this problem as dd or healer, since I've always assumed I can't block any attack from the boss and roll-dodged by default and will try never stand in anything red.

Soarora

disky wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Generally, attacks follow predictable rules:
- The physically larger the enemy, the more damage it does
- Light attacks won’t 1-shot you in most cases, but heavy attacks (shown by gold lines iirc) probably will. Generally, its good to block (or if you’re not a tank, roll dodge) light and heavy attacks regardless.
- Bad AoEs are bad. Some instant kill, some don’t. But unless its a “stack and burn” fight, don’t stand in any AoEs UNLESS the AoE is YELLOW. Those are stack AoEs like Flare in Cloudrest (Siroria), Sunspire (Yoln), and bugs in BRP (Tames).

I appreciate the primer but I understand the basic mechanics of combat. I'm talking specifically about attacks that will definitely kill you if unavoided.

I just treat everything like it’ll kill me unless I know otherwise, haven’t run into any problems except that I block “too much”, but there’s nothing wrong with my blocking habits because my sustain is fine haha.

KaGaOri wrote: »

Would love some indicator whether is incoming (heavy) attack just the "does lot of damage" kind or "will one-shot you no matter what" kind. Tried tanking while ago and this was one of most frustrating things in fights. There are attacks with same telegraph and some can be blocked and some will one-shot blocking tank with 40k+ health like it was nothing. Same with AoEs - some tank can (and apparently should) stand in, some have to be avoided even if it means moving the boss. Never had this problem as dd or healer, since I've always assumed I can't block any attack from the boss and roll-dodged by default and will try never stand in anything red.

Do you remember any specific examples of this? I’m curious to know. I know UG HM has trouble but you can’t block the hand because it stops you from blocking when you get picked up, and GD HM last boss you can block the cones but its better to roll dodge. I think FL last boss shalks will kill you but its a growing AoE which means roll dodge.

disky

sarahthes wrote: »

If the content is brand new, block the heavy if a tank, roll if a DD. If older, roll the heavies even if a tank.

There are exceptions to this, of course.

It's the fact that nothing is guaranteed that causes problems for me, and I assume, others. The fact that a one-shot lethal attack is functionally identical from a UI perspective. I just think it would really help to know what's going to kill me, and I think there's a justification for something like this in that if you're an experienced adventurer, you're more capable of understanding when you absolutely, positively, must get out of the way.

disky

Soarora wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Generally, attacks follow predictable rules:
- The physically larger the enemy, the more damage it does
- Light attacks won’t 1-shot you in most cases, but heavy attacks (shown by gold lines iirc) probably will. Generally, its good to block (or if you’re not a tank, roll dodge) light and heavy attacks regardless.
- Bad AoEs are bad. Some instant kill, some don’t. But unless its a “stack and burn” fight, don’t stand in any AoEs UNLESS the AoE is YELLOW. Those are stack AoEs like Flare in Cloudrest (Siroria), Sunspire (Yoln), and bugs in BRP (Tames).

I appreciate the primer but I understand the basic mechanics of combat. I'm talking specifically about attacks that will definitely kill you if unavoided.

I just treat everything like it’ll kill me unless I know otherwise, haven’t run into any problems except that I block “too much”, but there’s nothing wrong with my blocking habits because my sustain is fine haha.

There are plenty of heavy direct attacks and AOEs that I can easily shrug off or block and survive, and in those cases it can be more efficient to stay where I am. However, if an enemy is going to do a different attack that will one-shot me, I'd like to know, without having to look it up or die beforehand.

SkaiFaith

I suspect the "absolute one-shots" are way less than "we" think.
It happened to me to survive a huge one-shot because I had 33K resistances, all bonuses in blocking/mitigation and 50K+ Health, but I survived with like less than 1% health, barely enough to heal myself and recover the fight.
So even some hits that normally we would call one-shot aren't absolute one-shots... But occasional insta-kill are present, just really rare and usually tied to specific mechanics in specific content.

My point is: you can't warn about a "one-shot" if there's the chance to survive and fault for dying is on your character...

disky

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I suspect the "absolute one-shots" are way less than "we" think.
It happened to me to survive a huge one-shot because I had 33K resistances, all bonuses in blocking/mitigation and 50K+ Health, but I survived with like less than 1% health, barely enough to heal myself and recover the fight.
So even some hits that normally we would call one-shot aren't absolute one-shots... But occasional insta-kill are present, just really rare and usually tied to specific mechanics in specific content.

My point is: you can't warn about a "one-shot" if there's the chance to survive and fault for dying is on your character...

Yeah, I get that. Maybe it's better to consider an indicator for an "ultimate attack" that will kill, or nearly kill, most players.

BananaBender

disky wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

If the content is brand new, block the heavy if a tank, roll if a DD. If older, roll the heavies even if a tank.

There are exceptions to this, of course.

It's the fact that nothing is guaranteed that causes problems for me, and I assume, others. The fact that a one-shot lethal attack is functionally identical from a UI perspective. I just think it would really help to know what's going to kill me, and I think there's a justification for something like this in that if you're an experienced adventurer, you're more capable of understanding when you absolutely, positively, must get out of the way.

Because your survival depends on your build and what debuffs the boss has applied to them.

The game would pretty much have to calculate everything twice if it tried to predict whether you survive or not and change the visual cue accordingly. And it wouldn't even be completely accurate since buffs and debuffs can run out or be applied while the attack is happening.

Right now vast majority of boss heavies are blockable, though there are plenty of those which you would rather dodge roll. In Kyne's Aegis HM Falgravn execute is one of the very few attacks that are pretty much 100% a one shot, no matter what buffs and debuffs you have.

disky

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

If the content is brand new, block the heavy if a tank, roll if a DD. If older, roll the heavies even if a tank.

There are exceptions to this, of course.

It's the fact that nothing is guaranteed that causes problems for me, and I assume, others. The fact that a one-shot lethal attack is functionally identical from a UI perspective. I just think it would really help to know what's going to kill me, and I think there's a justification for something like this in that if you're an experienced adventurer, you're more capable of understanding when you absolutely, positively, must get out of the way.

Because your survival depends on your build and what debuffs the boss has applied to them.

The game would pretty much have to calculate everything twice if it tried to predict whether you survive or not and change the visual cue accordingly. And it wouldn't even be completely accurate since buffs and debuffs can run out or be applied while the attack is happening.

Right now vast majority of boss heavies are blockable, though there are plenty of those which you would rather dodge roll. In Kyne's Aegis HM Falgravn execute is one of the very few attacks that are pretty much 100% a one shot, no matter what buffs and debuffs you have.

All it has to do is indicate whether it's the kind of attack that will be lethal, or as I noted in my last reply, "ultimate". It doesn't require any calculation, only a tag which tells the indicator to be a normal red or something else.

BananaBender

disky wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

If the content is brand new, block the heavy if a tank, roll if a DD. If older, roll the heavies even if a tank.

There are exceptions to this, of course.

It's the fact that nothing is guaranteed that causes problems for me, and I assume, others. The fact that a one-shot lethal attack is functionally identical from a UI perspective. I just think it would really help to know what's going to kill me, and I think there's a justification for something like this in that if you're an experienced adventurer, you're more capable of understanding when you absolutely, positively, must get out of the way.

Because your survival depends on your build and what debuffs the boss has applied to them.

The game would pretty much have to calculate everything twice if it tried to predict whether you survive or not and change the visual cue accordingly. And it wouldn't even be completely accurate since buffs and debuffs can run out or be applied while the attack is happening.

Right now vast majority of boss heavies are blockable, though there are plenty of those which you would rather dodge roll. In Kyne's Aegis HM Falgravn execute is one of the very few attacks that are pretty much 100% a one shot, no matter what buffs and debuffs you have.

All it has to do is indicate whether it's the kind of attack that will be lethal, or as I noted in my last reply, "ultimate". It doesn't require any calculation, only a tag which tells the indicator to be a normal red or something else.

But how will it know if the attack is lethal without calculating it? There aren't any heavy attacks that are guaranteed to one shot you.

disky

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

If the content is brand new, block the heavy if a tank, roll if a DD. If older, roll the heavies even if a tank.

There are exceptions to this, of course.

It's the fact that nothing is guaranteed that causes problems for me, and I assume, others. The fact that a one-shot lethal attack is functionally identical from a UI perspective. I just think it would really help to know what's going to kill me, and I think there's a justification for something like this in that if you're an experienced adventurer, you're more capable of understanding when you absolutely, positively, must get out of the way.

Because your survival depends on your build and what debuffs the boss has applied to them.

The game would pretty much have to calculate everything twice if it tried to predict whether you survive or not and change the visual cue accordingly. And it wouldn't even be completely accurate since buffs and debuffs can run out or be applied while the attack is happening.

Right now vast majority of boss heavies are blockable, though there are plenty of those which you would rather dodge roll. In Kyne's Aegis HM Falgravn execute is one of the very few attacks that are pretty much 100% a one shot, no matter what buffs and debuffs you have.

All it has to do is indicate whether it's the kind of attack that will be lethal, or as I noted in my last reply, "ultimate". It doesn't require any calculation, only a tag which tells the indicator to be a normal red or something else.

But how will it know if the attack is lethal without calculating it? There aren't any heavy attacks that are guaranteed to one shot you.

There are attacks which are a one-shot, and there are attacks which do a tremendous amount of damage. I feel like it's easy enough to flag those.

code65536

disky wrote: »

Right, that's what I mean. I'm asking about whether it would be good to have a way to understand whether something will simply kill you if unavoided. The reason being that I would rather not have to check a wiki to know which attack, which from a UI perspective looks exactly like every other attack, will one-shot me. I think it would give players the ability to better understand and react in the moment, especially if they're not overly familiar with the encounter.

I've never, ever read a wiki or guide for any dungeon or trial in this game. And I almost certainly never will in the future.

There's no need for such a thing.

So how do I know what will and won't kill me? The same way that people who write those wikis and guides find out: by experiencing the fight.

Learning the content, by trying it out and seeing what happens is half the fun.

When faced with something I hadn't seen before, I block the attack and see how much it hurts. Then I'll know for the future if it's something for which blocking is insufficient and a dodge is needed, or if blocking is unnecessary, or if blocking is just right.

BananaBender

disky wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

If the content is brand new, block the heavy if a tank, roll if a DD. If older, roll the heavies even if a tank.

There are exceptions to this, of course.

It's the fact that nothing is guaranteed that causes problems for me, and I assume, others. The fact that a one-shot lethal attack is functionally identical from a UI perspective. I just think it would really help to know what's going to kill me, and I think there's a justification for something like this in that if you're an experienced adventurer, you're more capable of understanding when you absolutely, positively, must get out of the way.

Because your survival depends on your build and what debuffs the boss has applied to them.

The game would pretty much have to calculate everything twice if it tried to predict whether you survive or not and change the visual cue accordingly. And it wouldn't even be completely accurate since buffs and debuffs can run out or be applied while the attack is happening.

Right now vast majority of boss heavies are blockable, though there are plenty of those which you would rather dodge roll. In Kyne's Aegis HM Falgravn execute is one of the very few attacks that are pretty much 100% a one shot, no matter what buffs and debuffs you have.

All it has to do is indicate whether it's the kind of attack that will be lethal, or as I noted in my last reply, "ultimate". It doesn't require any calculation, only a tag which tells the indicator to be a normal red or something else.

But how will it know if the attack is lethal without calculating it? There aren't any heavy attacks that are guaranteed to one shot you.

There are attacks which are a one-shot, and there are attacks which do a tremendous amount of damage. I feel like it's easy enough to flag those.

Which boss has a one shot heavy attack?

How I usually judge whether to dodge or block a heavy is by seeing how much damage I'm taking over all. If I'm taking minimal damage, the HA isn't going to deal massive damage. If you are already taking a lot of damage to begin with, it's safer to dodge roll.

disky

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

If the content is brand new, block the heavy if a tank, roll if a DD. If older, roll the heavies even if a tank.

There are exceptions to this, of course.

It's the fact that nothing is guaranteed that causes problems for me, and I assume, others. The fact that a one-shot lethal attack is functionally identical from a UI perspective. I just think it would really help to know what's going to kill me, and I think there's a justification for something like this in that if you're an experienced adventurer, you're more capable of understanding when you absolutely, positively, must get out of the way.

Because your survival depends on your build and what debuffs the boss has applied to them.

The game would pretty much have to calculate everything twice if it tried to predict whether you survive or not and change the visual cue accordingly. And it wouldn't even be completely accurate since buffs and debuffs can run out or be applied while the attack is happening.

Right now vast majority of boss heavies are blockable, though there are plenty of those which you would rather dodge roll. In Kyne's Aegis HM Falgravn execute is one of the very few attacks that are pretty much 100% a one shot, no matter what buffs and debuffs you have.

All it has to do is indicate whether it's the kind of attack that will be lethal, or as I noted in my last reply, "ultimate". It doesn't require any calculation, only a tag which tells the indicator to be a normal red or something else.

But how will it know if the attack is lethal without calculating it? There aren't any heavy attacks that are guaranteed to one shot you.

There are attacks which are a one-shot, and there are attacks which do a tremendous amount of damage. I feel like it's easy enough to flag those.

Which boss has a one shot heavy attack?

How I usually judge whether to dodge or block a heavy is by seeing how much damage I'm taking over all. If I'm taking minimal damage, the HA isn't going to deal massive damage. If you are already taking a lot of damage to begin with, it's safer to dodge roll.

I'm not talking about a normal heavy attack, I'm talking about special attacks which are a one-shot or an attack that does a large amount of damage if unavoided. Many bosses have mechanics like this, especially in vet dungeons.

disky

code65536 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Right, that's what I mean. I'm asking about whether it would be good to have a way to understand whether something will simply kill you if unavoided. The reason being that I would rather not have to check a wiki to know which attack, which from a UI perspective looks exactly like every other attack, will one-shot me. I think it would give players the ability to better understand and react in the moment, especially if they're not overly familiar with the encounter.

I've never, ever read a wiki or guide for any dungeon or trial in this game. And I almost certainly never will in the future.

There's no need for such a thing.

So how do I know what will and won't kill me? The same way that people who write those wikis and guides find out: by experiencing the fight.

Learning the content, by trying it out and seeing what happens is half the fun.

When faced with something I hadn't seen before, I block the attack and see how much it hurts. Then I'll know for the future if it's something for which blocking is insufficient and a dodge is needed, or if blocking is unnecessary, or if blocking is just right.

Good to hear that you're willing to go through that, but there are reasons why I am not:

- I don't want to die multiple times to something I have no idea how to mitigate without looking it up
- I don't want to do this in a group setting, which will always mean that before I experience group content, I will definitely look it up so as not to let anyone down.

You may have a build or a level of experience (or patience) that allows you to grasp this kind of thing very quickly, but I don't think it's necessary, and I don't think it's a difficult thing to address. Nor would it dramatically alter the game in a negative way.

DinoZavr

Partially, the mission to inform player about one-shot may be done via addons (like Combat Alert or Raid Notifer), though addons do not exist on consoles.
Reworking the game to add different telegraphs and AoEs of the different color looks rather improbable, though it would be great if game engine (without 3rd party addons) notified players about upcoming guaranteed one-shot.
There are different mechanics, though:
- AoE (like expanding circle at Dreugh boss in vFG1)
- HA (like last phase of Bloodroot Forge boss)
- even mobs can one-shot (like minotaurs in Falkreath Hold if you dont block)
not counting unbreakable and unavoidable with Precognition CCs (like Malubeth lifts in Wayrest Sewers 2)
a lot of job for game-makers, so i doubt this would ever be implemented

disky

DinoZavr wrote: »

Partially, the mission to inform player about one-shot may be done via addons (like Combat Alert or Raid Notifer), though addons do not exist on consoles.
Reworking the game to add different telegraphs and AoEs of the different color looks rather improbable, though it would be great if game engine (without 3rd party addons) notified players about upcoming guaranteed one-shot.
There are different mechanics, though:
- AoE (like expanding circle at Dreugh boss in vFG1)
- HA (like last phase of Bloodroot Forge boss)
- even mobs can one-shot (like minotaurs in Falkreath Hold if you dont block)
not counting unbreakable and unavoidable with Precognition CCs (like Malubeth lifts in Wayrest Sewers 2)
a lot of job for game-makers, so i doubt this would ever be implemented

Why do people think this, though? I'm not expecting the game to calculate whether or not it's going to kill the player based on their health, all the game needs to do is flag that type of attack as what it is and display the appropriate indicator. It doesn't have to be that complicated.

Soarora

disky wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

disky wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

If the content is brand new, block the heavy if a tank, roll if a DD. If older, roll the heavies even if a tank.

There are exceptions to this, of course.

It's the fact that nothing is guaranteed that causes problems for me, and I assume, others. The fact that a one-shot lethal attack is functionally identical from a UI perspective. I just think it would really help to know what's going to kill me, and I think there's a justification for something like this in that if you're an experienced adventurer, you're more capable of understanding when you absolutely, positively, must get out of the way.

Because your survival depends on your build and what debuffs the boss has applied to them.

The game would pretty much have to calculate everything twice if it tried to predict whether you survive or not and change the visual cue accordingly. And it wouldn't even be completely accurate since buffs and debuffs can run out or be applied while the attack is happening.

Right now vast majority of boss heavies are blockable, though there are plenty of those which you would rather dodge roll. In Kyne's Aegis HM Falgravn execute is one of the very few attacks that are pretty much 100% a one shot, no matter what buffs and debuffs you have.

All it has to do is indicate whether it's the kind of attack that will be lethal, or as I noted in my last reply, "ultimate". It doesn't require any calculation, only a tag which tells the indicator to be a normal red or something else.

But how will it know if the attack is lethal without calculating it? There aren't any heavy attacks that are guaranteed to one shot you.

There are attacks which are a one-shot, and there are attacks which do a tremendous amount of damage. I feel like it's easy enough to flag those.

Which boss has a one shot heavy attack?

How I usually judge whether to dodge or block a heavy is by seeing how much damage I'm taking over all. If I'm taking minimal damage, the HA isn't going to deal massive damage. If you are already taking a lot of damage to begin with, it's safer to dodge roll.

I'm not talking about a normal heavy attack, I'm talking about special attacks which are a one-shot or an attack that does a large amount of damage if unavoided. Many bosses have mechanics like this, especially in vet dungeons.

Can someone please mention specific boss fights where this happens, because the only one I can think of is UG HM which I think is dependent on you having max resists and a health threshold.

Edit: okay, yeah HM Falg will one-shot you as well, I saw someone mention that one.

KaGaOri

Soarora wrote: »

Do you remember any specific examples of this? I’m curious to know. I know UG HM has trouble but you can’t block the hand because it stops you from blocking when you get picked up, and GD HM last boss you can block the cones but its better to roll dodge. I think FL last boss shalks will kill you but its a growing AoE which means roll dodge.

It's been a while, but the AoE was definitely shalks from Fang lair's last boss. I'm pretty sure of getting one-shot by last boss in March of Sacrifices and one of the boses in Ruins of Mazzatun (I think it was there).
Haven't tanked that one (waaay out of my league), but in Graven Deep there is this add that spawns half way through last boss fight, that I've seen repeatedly one-shot tank and then wipe rest of group.

DenverRalphy

Even if it could be implemented, I don't think that it should be iimplemented.

Learning through experience is a key component in any game worth it's weight. It's the thrill of the unknown until it's known that makes it exciting and engaging. I really don't like games that would spoil its own surprises. I find them less fun.

Amottica

disky wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Generally, attacks follow predictable rules:
- The physically larger the enemy, the more damage it does
- Light attacks won’t 1-shot you in most cases, but heavy attacks (shown by gold lines iirc) probably will. Generally, its good to block (or if you’re not a tank, roll dodge) light and heavy attacks regardless.
- Bad AoEs are bad. Some instant kill, some don’t. But unless its a “stack and burn” fight, don’t stand in any AoEs UNLESS the AoE is YELLOW. Those are stack AoEs like Flare in Cloudrest (Siroria), Sunspire (Yoln), and bugs in BRP (Tames).

I appreciate the primer but I understand the basic mechanics of combat. I'm talking specifically about attacks that will definitely kill you if unavoided.

We basically have it already. An attack that is charged takes a moment before it goes off, and it will cause serious problems and needs to be interrupted, blocked, or just plain avoided, such as stepping aside or dodge rolling. It does not require something in the game to telegraph it separately, though many of these attacks are telegraphed.

Soarora

KaGaOri wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Do you remember any specific examples of this? I’m curious to know. I know UG HM has trouble but you can’t block the hand because it stops you from blocking when you get picked up, and GD HM last boss you can block the cones but its better to roll dodge. I think FL last boss shalks will kill you but its a growing AoE which means roll dodge.

It's been a while, but the AoE was definitely shalks from Fang lair's last boss. I'm pretty sure of getting one-shot by last boss in March of Sacrifices and one of the boses in Ruins of Mazzatun (I think it was there).
Haven't tanked that one (waaay out of my league), but in Graven Deep there is this add that spawns half way through last boss fight, that I've seen repeatedly one-shot tank and then wipe rest of group.

Thank you!
So, fang lair shalks is a growing AoE under you which I suppose should (like the yellow AOE) be included in a tutorial somewhere but a growing AoE that follows you like that means roll dodge. Not to be confused with growing aoes that DON’T follow you, which you can usually stand in.

I don’t recall any one-shots from Balorgh but I do recall that I think there’s a bug with the stranglers where they’ll hit you multiple times at once, one-shotting you. I think a tank can survive shadow balorgh but non-tanks can’t, but the whole mechanic with that part is running.

I don’t know what boss in RoM so I can’t comment on that, but with graven deep that add is one of if not the most poorly taught mechanics in the game. You’re supposed to make it smaller by AoEing down the floating skeletons in the “other world” phase. That said, if a tank is 1-shot by the add from full health then they’re probably either not tanky enough or what really happened is they got distracted and didn’t roll the boss cone (which you don’t really have to except that the cones stack… so if you stack like 3 cones you really should roll the attack). I’ve tanked the add in his full power before anyone figured out the mechanic and it was painful but it wasn’t 1-shots.

katanagirl1

This reminds me of a discussion a while back about enemies that could be interrupted. Those enemies have the red lines coming off them to let you know that if you bash them, it will interrupt their channeled attack. There are also enemies with yellow lines, like when Tho’at is ready to do a big attack in IA. I see this when Bastian is tanking for me. I assume that is a really strong attack that I, as a squishy arcanist, would probably not survive. As a tank build he can survive it.

disky

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Even if it could be implemented, I don't think that it should be iimplemented.

Learning through experience is a key component in any game worth it's weight. It's the thrill of the unknown until it's known that makes it exciting and engaging. I really don't like games that would spoil its own surprises. I find them less fun.

Without looking it up, many players just die repeatedly to lethal attacks which can be far stronger than an attack with an identical indicator and I don't personally think that is fun. I like challenge but I don't think it should come in the form of flailing around without any idea of what's happening and dying over and over. To me, this is simply a reason to go check a wiki to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I think challenge is good, hand-holding is bad, and this not hand-holding. It's just another UI element which differentiates a potentially lethal attack from many of the completely survivable attacks that enemies make, which you can stand in and survive easily. It's a way to mitigate confusion.

And while we're discussing this, I would like to point out that some of the most common and popular mods for PvE gameplay are mods like Code's Combat Alerts and CrutchAlerts, which display enemy ability cooldowns, add UI elements for boss mechanics to guide you to exactly where you need to be and what you need to do in order to defeat them. They literally tell the player "do [x] now!". THAT looks like hand-holding to me. I don't use any of that. I bet a lot of high-level PvE people would scold me for not using them in difficult group content though. So let's not act as if "learning through experience" is a justification for counterpoint. The thing I'm asking for is far less than what a lot of raiders see every time they log in.

disky

katanagirl1 wrote: »

This reminds me of a discussion a while back about enemies that could be interrupted. Those enemies have the red lines coming off them to let you know that if you bash them, it will interrupt their channeled attack. There are also enemies with yellow lines, like when Tho’at is ready to do a big attack in IA. I see this when Bastian is tanking for me. I assume that is a really strong attack that I, as a squishy arcanist, would probably not survive. As a tank build he can survive it.

Yeah, I think I've seen this too, but it doesn't seem to happen for AOEs in the same fight...though it might just be that none of the AOEs in the fight are the kind I'm talking about. If that is what's happening then I hope we see more of it.

katanagirl1

disky wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

This reminds me of a discussion a while back about enemies that could be interrupted. Those enemies have the red lines coming off them to let you know that if you bash them, it will interrupt their channeled attack. There are also enemies with yellow lines, like when Tho’at is ready to do a big attack in IA. I see this when Bastian is tanking for me. I assume that is a really strong attack that I, as a squishy arcanist, would probably not survive. As a tank build he can survive it.

Yeah, I think I've seen this too, but it doesn't seem to happen for AOEs in the same fight...though it might just be that none of the AOEs in the fight are the kind I'm talking about. If that is what's happening then I hope we see more of it.

Aoes are something that you almost never want to stand in for more than one or two seconds, unless you have a team with dedicated healers and they indicate you should do so. That’s why people say “don’t stand in stupid”. Get out of it asap and make sure the aoe is a color that is easy to see for you.